29 replies to this topic

[Qia]

Oh and just in case someone tries to use the "Love Hina is a harem and not a Shonen." Well, there is anther Shonen with a guy and two girls who had a crush on the main character with one abusing him and the other actually berating the other for it. It is a little Shonen I call "Rurouni Kenshin."

And what a beautiful shounen it is

[Quinny52]

While a lot of the time it is just about fans getting behind a character they best associate with or has traits that they subconciously look for in a partner, as well as a lack of understanding of popular character archetypes and tropes in this type of media (the 'Tsundere' being the obvious example), these things are usually overshadowed by the shear bias that fandoms produce. So afraid they are of losing ground in a debate, they resort to double standards or simple ignorance to preserve their faith in the ship.

For example, a certain NH fan I (and a few of you) know, who, while openly blasting NS, is also openly a fan of LuffyxNami of One Piece and NatsuxLucy of Fairy Tail. Granted, I can't say that Lucy is pure Tsundere, but she has hit Natsu (and others) on a few occasions. So, in thiis case it's not a question of a lack of understanding of archetypes and tropes, it is a simple case of bias; this person's utter devotion to Hinata, and their bitter loathing of Sakura. Hypocrisy at it's best(worst, you decide); it's one rule for Sakura, and another rule for anyone else.

Sadly, it's the hardcore fans who are the most vocal, and the one's people are most likely to encounter.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

While a lot of the time it is just about fans getting behind a character they best associate with or has traits that they subconciously look for in a partner, as well as a lack of understanding of popular character archetypes and tropes in this type of media (the 'Tsundere' being the obvious example), these things are usually overshadowed by the shear bias that fandoms produce. So afraid they are of losing ground in a debate, they resort to double standards or simple ignorance to preserve their faith in the ship.

For example, a certain NH fan I (and a few of you) know, who, while openly blasting NS, is also openly a fan of LuffyxNami of One Piece and NatsuxLucy of Fairy Tail. Granted, I can't say that Lucy is pure Tsundere, but she has hit Natsu (and others) on a few occasions. So, in thiis case it's not a question of a lack of understanding of archetypes and tropes, it is a simple case of bias; this person's utter devotion to Hinata, and their bitter loathing of Sakura. Hypocrisy at it's best(worst, you decide); it's one rule for Sakura, and another rule for anyone else.

Sadly, it's the hardcore fans who are the most vocal, and the one's people are most likely to encounter.

That is pretty much the reason why character bashing happens. To be honest, this happens to Hinata too. Those who bash her, emphasize the fact that she's weak and shy to the nth degree. While she IS shy, she's not as shy as she used to be, ie. 10 ft. away from Naruto, behind a wall, looking at him like a stalker, this IS the girl who stood up to Pein and willingly went to her death to save Naruto. I know a lot of people joke about her being a stalker and super-shy, and I don't mind that.

Although, I am of the opinion that a lot of what she's done in Shippuden can easily be done by another character, It's all character development for her. Whether I like it or not, meh. Doesn't matter, Kishi'll do as he plans to do. In the end, I laugh it all off when I see someone being so vehement in defending and bashing a fictional character, because, frankly, it's ridiculous.

[James S Cassidy]

Although, I am of the opinion that a lot of what she's done in Shippuden can easily be done by another character, It's all character development for her. Whether I like it or not, meh. Doesn't matter, Kishi'll do as he plans to do. In the end, I laugh it all off when I see someone being so vehement in defending and bashing a fictional character, because, frankly, it's ridiculous.

You know what bothers me the most about Hinata? I can't really think of something she has done that doesn't have Naruto's involvement in some way. Has she really done anything in the manga that wasn't influenced, about, for, or acted upon by Naruto? I can't think of anything. I mean Sakura fought Sasori without Naruto to cheer her on or some motivation. She was self-reliant there.

I guess what I find superior in Sakura is that she can do things without Naruto's hand, metaphorically or physically, leading her. She can stand on her own two feet and be self-motivating. I have not seen Hinata do anything like that. Granted Sakura was motivated too by Naruto, but she didn't constantly need that motivation. She didn't need it fighting Sasori or healing people. She just did cause she knew she had to.

I guess what I want to say is "Hinata, I know you love him, but you don't need him to live a life."

Edit: Wow, I think my keyboard it breaking. I hit the keys and they don't show up.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 31 December 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

You know what bothers me the most about Hinata? I can't really think of something she has done that doesn't have Naruto's involvement in some way. Has she really done anything in the manga that wasn't influenced, about, for, or acted upon by Naruto? I can't think of anything. I mean Sakura fought Sasori without Naruto to cheer her on or some motivation. She was self-reliant there.

I guess what I find superior in Sakura is that she can do things without Naruto's hand, metaphorically or physically, leading her. She can stand on her own two feet and be self-motivating. I have not seen Hinata do anything like that. Granted Sakura was motivated too by Naruto, but she didn't constantly need that motivation. She didn't need it fighting Sasori or healing people. She just did cause she knew she had to.

I guess what I want to say is "Hinata, I know you love him, but you don't need him to live a life."

Edit: Wow, I think my keyboard it breaking. I hit the keys and they don't show up.

Hinata's always been exclusively a satellite character, but, she can stand on her own if Kishi gives her other motivations besides, "MUST DO EVERYTHING FOR NARUTO!" She can use the lessons she's learned to be a force for change in her own clan, for example.

However, I think that while Sakura can do stuff without Naruto's influence, a lot of big changes in her character happened because of either Naruto or Sasuke, she's a satellite character, too, her big developments hover around what happens to Sasuke and Naruto.

Doesn't mean I favor Hinata over Sakura, though. I love Sakura's character mostly because, aside from her being stuck on what to do with Sasuke and Naruto, she's a genuinely good, not cliche'd character. Very dynamic, she's evolved a lot from Part 1. Here's a girl who was doomed to be the usual tsundere love interest, but has now grown beyond that characterization into her own character. In contrast, Hinata's still stuck in the "I LOVE NARUTO, and I must do everything to prove myself to him!" charactertistic. That's why I doubt she can stand on equal footing with Naruto, he need someone more down-to-earth that can rein him in. The Heaven and Earth thing, of course.

Too bad Kishi doesn't use Sakura as much as he should.

[James S Cassidy]

Hinata's always been exclusively a satellite character, but, she can stand on her own if Kishi gives her other motivations besides, "MUST DO EVERYTHING FOR NARUTO!" She can use the lessons she's learned to be a force for change in her own clan, for example.

That is the number one statement of the year.

"If Kishi..."

If Kishi made Hinata stand on her own she wouldn't be a satellite character.
If Kishi made Sakura do more, then fans wouldn't see her as useless
If Kishi gave this character this, then they wouldn't be this.

Kishi could do all this, yet he doesn't. He doesn't give Sakura more parts (yet), he doesn't make Hinata do something that doesn't involve Naruto.

However, I think that while Sakura can do stuff without Naruto's influence, a lot of big changes in her character happened because of either Naruto or Sasuke, she's a satellite character, too, her big developments hover around what happens to Sasuke and Naruto.

I have to disagree though and say that she is not a satellite character. Sure, she was motivated by Naruto, but not everything she did was for Naruto or because of Naruto. Did Sakura cure Kankuro for Naruto's sake? Did she fight Sasori for Naruto's sake? I am not saying she doesn't do it, but she doesn't do it every time something happens. Did she help all those hurt in the war because of Naruto?

I guess you could argue well being a medic was influenced by Naruto, but that's kind of indirect to associate the war effort to that.

Actually if you really want to get down to it, what story doesn't have every other character revolve around the main character in some way?

How could I put this more....simple...hmmm...Well, put it this way I wonder if Hinata is wearing a WWND bracelet?

[Canadian_DJ]

NH/SS fans are arrogant and try to convince themselves that there is no possible way of NaruSaku becoming canon by making up some poor excuses that don't seem to have any relevance to the overall plot of the series and use filler episodes/anytime Naruto and Hinata appear in the same panel/episode as proof of their ship being canon.

Fans like these say that NaruSaku is domestic abuse because Sakura has a very short temper and lashes out when Naruto either offends her with a smug comment or if he has stepped out of line. They take this too seriously and think its because Sakura STILL hates Naruto like she did in part one. They don't take it into account that its actually suppose to be funny whether someone laughs or not. I mostly blame the anime for this, because the anime makes Sakura look a lot more 'agressive' than she actually is. Sakura has only hit Naruto about twice in part two (if I remember correctly) but in the anime she hits him near enough every episode.

NaruHina fans are bias, so are NaruSaku fans. We all are to a degree but I find NaruHina/SasuSaku make up a lot of excuses which obviously includes the 'domestic abuse' argument (I'm guessing they think domestic abuse is just hitting your supposed lover, it's ALOT more) and my favourite bias argument "NaruSaku is JUST brother/sister, if it were to happen it'd be like incest"

And remember a lot of these fans probably don't know what a tsundere is, I replied to a comment a NaruHina fan said on on discussion video saying
"You do realise Sakura is a tsundere right?"
They simply met my question with
[b]"LOL!!! It's Tsunade! LOL NaruSaku fans are so stupid they don't even know how to spell Tsunade's name!!!! LOL!"[/b
:/]

Was me seeing that coming a bad thing................why am i not surprised...

[Canadian_DJ]

LOLOL!

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE? -.- oh my . . . Link me to this person. we need to show him SasuSaku relationship LOL.

BTW. I snagged this photo awhile ago before BlueGod21 ( I think thats what his name was ) took his videos down.. Does anyone know this photo means? i could never figure it out. PS: LOOK AT THE DIRECT ARROW from Sakura and Naruto. what does that arrow say? i always wanted to know

VIEW. --Click here to view--

FULL PICTURE. {([VIEW THIS --Click here to view--

)}"]

NaruSaku is like the least of " Domestic Violence " . Its more " playful " than violence

Man that databook thingy just comes to show that naruto wont change his feelings, look its SO blunt kishi even bothered to release it AFTER hinatas "confession" which is practically him saying "Hey all you fans in denial, try this on for size!" lol, im btw im expecting the next chapter's cover to have something NS related.And one more thing the arrow thats connecting naruto and sakura says "daisuki" right?

Btw guys did you know that sakuras favourite phrase is "A life with love throughout!"

Edited by Canadian_DJ, 03 January 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Phantom_999]

OKAY so can some one merge this topic with the tsundere thread then?

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Sakura is a gentle woman compared to this tsundere. --Click here to view--

Yeah it become the same tsundere conversation.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 08 January 2013 - 10:37 AM.