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Review of Sasuke as a Character [Kishis worst Characterwriting]


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#21 AHK

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 01:09 AM

What crimes has Sasuke committed ?  :huh: 
Sasuke took credit for crimes he didn't actually commit lets go over it:His Crimes of Murder ?
Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Orochimaru ?2lu2l2o.png
Sasuke felt it was finally time to cut his ties with Orochimaru so Sasuke then proceeded to enter the room Orochimaru was in, then Sasuke attempted to Pierce Orochimaru to impale him but Orochimaru redirected the attack with his arms, Orochimaru was baffled by this behavior of Sasuke and then Sasuke explained that it was because Orochimaru had nothing more to teach Sasuke and also the reason he wanted to end his life so that he would stop trying to steal his Sharingan so then Sasuke and Orochimaru begin their battle, eventually Sasuke was getting the upper hand on him so Sasuke then proceeded to absorb Orochimaru in his body, after Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru Sasuke instructed Kabuto to spread the word that Sasuke killed Orochimaru when he really didn't because he ABSORBED Orochimaru not killed him
And the fact that Orochimaru is alive and well at the end of the Naruto series but is on parole CLEARLY means he is not dead but for some odd reason Orochimaru's death is still listed under the list of crimes Sasuke committed ?  :huh: 
Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Deidara ?naruto-1569104.jpg
Sasuke approached Deidara to interrogate him to get some information of the whereabouts of his older brother Itachi but Deidara was non-compliant so he attacked Sasuke which lead to their showdown, eventually at the end of their battle lead to a stalemate with both Sasuke and Deidara depleted of most of their chakra but Sasuke never had any intention of killing him but however Deidara was planning to kill him so as a act of desperation Deidara used the last bit of his remaining chakra to use a technique to detonate and blow himself up taking him and Sasuke along in the blast but before the blast hit Sasuke, Sasuke also used a technique in a act of desperation he quickly summoned Manda and went inside of Manda's Belly to shield him from Deidara self destruct technique then after Deidara's self destruct technique finally detonated the area surrounding Sasuke and Deidara was destroyed ending Deidara's life but Sasuke lived due to using Manda as a shield but Now Sasuke is being accused of killing Deidara when he actually didn't, Deidara blew his own self up.
Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Itachi ?kkC7fRq.gif2GVGo0c.gif
Sasuke had the intention to kill Itachi because he was lead to believe that the reason why Itachi wiped out the Uchiha clan was that so Itachi could test his power when the true reason why he did it was because Itachi was being manipulated by Danzo to do so, Sasuke spent nearly half his life training and tracking down the whereabouts of Itachi to end his life, eventually after years of long searching Sasuke finally discovered the location of Itachi's whereabouts which was at the Uchiha hideout, After Sasuke entered the Uchiha hideout of which Itachi was currently at Sasuke approached itachi and then they began their final battle of life and death, eventually Itachi began to get the upper hand on Sasuke due to Itachi's Sharigan being on a higher level, then Itachi approached Sasuke with his Susano which forced Sasuke to back up on a wall but the real reason Itachi approached Sasuke was that so he could put his fingers on his forehead to show in Sasukes mind the real reason why Itachi wiped out the Uchiha clan, Itachi died immediately afterwards due to a unknown illness not because Sasuke actually killed him, but Sasuke is now being charged with Killing Itachi which is not true because Itachi was already dying from a unknown illness that he had.
Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" the Samurai at the 5 Kage summit ? hqdefault.jpg
Sasuke had his Sharingan active the entire time he "Stabbed" the Samurai at the 5 Kage summit "Killing" them ?  :huh: those Samurai could have all be under a genjutsu from the effects of the Sharingan because if you look into the eyes of a Sharingan user directly they can put you under a genjutsu, So Sasuke made those Samurai think they were being stabbed and gave the illusion to the others watching  that he Killed those Samurai, All of the people in that Kage summit building including Sasuke's friends Suigetsu and Jugo were looking into Sasukes eye's while he "Stabbed" and "Killed" those Samurai so they ALSO were being decieved by the Sharingan that Sasuke killed those Samurai
Because later on in that Scene the area of that room where Sasuke "Killed" Those Samurai the Samurai and their "Corpses" were not there ? which could mean that it was just a illusion that Sasuke "Killed" those Samurai in that area 
Sasuke was criminally charged for "Killing" Danzo ? be22cf10c9823d51e30a27e69cb70a0a.gif
Sasuke went on a hunt to track down Danzo to avenge the members of his fallen clan the (Uchiha Clan) Sasuke DID have the intent to kill Danzo, eventually Sasuke finally tracked and found the whereabouts of Danzo, then he approached Danzo to end his life for causing his Clan and his brother Itachi so much pain, Then Sasuke and Danzo fought each other until eventually Sasuke gained the upper hand in their battle so as a act of desperation Danzo was getting ready to Set off the bombs he had attached to his body planning to take his life along with Sasuke's, then Danzo set off the bombs attached to his Body self destructing himself ending his life but Sasuke manage to avoid the blast radius, But now Sasuke is being charged for killing Danzo when he actually didn't, Danzo blew himself up.
Yes joining the Akatsuki is a crime which Sasuke did, But Sasuke failed to complete every task given to him as a Akatsuki member, He failed to retrieve the 8 tails (Killer B) He failed to capture the 9 tails (Naruto) so technically he didn't commit any crimes as a Akatsuki member because of that since he wasn't actually able to get the crimes done.
Sasuke actually has a clean record, but he just wont admit that he didn't commit the crimes that he is being accused of, Sasuke has never killed a single person in his entire life.

Lmfao this is one of the best feats of fanboyism I have ever seen. Sasukes record is not clean, and is responsible for the deaths of many people. Cloud ninja, samurai, he is guilty of murdering them, assassination of a government leader, assaulting and threatening the other world leaders, oh and by the way, helped Obito reasurect the Juubi which in turn started a war resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. Sorry, but your fav is a murderer.

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#22 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 03:12 AM

Lmfao this is one of the best feats of fanboyism I have ever seen. Sasukes record is not clean, and is responsible for the deaths of many people. Cloud ninja, samurai, he is guilty of murdering them, assassination of a government leader, assaulting and threatening the other world leaders, oh and by the way, helped Obito reasurect the Juubi which in turn started a war resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. Sorry, but your fav is a murderer.

Clearly I've explained that those ninja that Sasuke "Killed" were not actually killed by him, They blew their own selves up, Was dying already from a terminal illness, Tricked by the Sharingan, And absorbed,


Deidara blew himself up...

Danzo blew himself up...

Itachi was already dying from a Terminal illness...

The Samurai that Sasuke "Killed" were all under a genjutsu from the effects of the Sharingan which make them and others watching Sasuke attack the Samurai get "Killed" think they were being killed when he actually didn't....

Orochimaru clearly wasn't killed by Sasuke but rather absorbed by him the fact that he is alive and well at the end of the series confirms that....


Sasuke took credit for murders he didn't actually commit but for some odd reason he won't admit to the world that he didn't commit all of those murders


What government leader has Sasuke killed ?  :huh: 


The only primary Village and it's world leader that Sasuke threatened was the Leaf Village and their Hokage due to causing his brother Itachi so much pain Sasuke could give a rats ass about the other villages, but Sasuke finally came to his senses that the most of the important people in his life are from the leaf village thanks to Naruto after their 2nd final battle which means he is NO LONGER a threat to the Shinobi world and now wishes to see the Ninja world become the one of peace and love that Naruto envisioned.


Sasuke failed to help Obito ressurect the Juubi, because Sasuke failed at his task of kidnapping the 8 Tails (Killer B) So no Sasuke was unable to help Obito with that, Obito retrived the 8 and 9 Tails and Summoned the Juubi all on his own, The deaths of tens of thousands of people that died in the 4th great Ninja war including (Neji) was Obitos fault after all Obito and Black Zetsu orchestrated the entire plot to get the Juubi ressurected in the first place.



I know Sasuke isn't a perfect angel by I want to make sure to give some clarity that Sasuke isn't as big of a bad guy as he is being portrayed



#23 AHK

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 06:32 AM

Clearly I've explained that those ninja that Sasuke "Killed" were not actually killed by him, They blew their own selves up, Was dying already from a terminal illness, Tricked by the Sharingan, And absorbed,
Deidara blew himself up...
Danzo blew himself up...
Itachi was already dying from a Terminal illness...
The Samurai that Sasuke "Killed" were all under a genjutsu from the effects of the Sharingan which make them and others watching Sasuke attack the Samurai get "Killed" think they were being killed when he actually didn't....
Orochimaru clearly wasn't killed by Sasuke but rather absorbed by him the fact that he is alive and well at the end of the series confirms that....
Sasuke took credit for murders he didn't actually commit but for some odd reason he won't admit to the world that he didn't commit all of those murders
What government leader has Sasuke killed ?  :huh: 
The only primary Village and it's world leader that Sasuke threatened was the Leaf Village and their Hokage due to causing his brother Itachi so much pain Sasuke could give a rats ass about the other villages, but Sasuke finally came to his senses that the most of the important people in his life are from the leaf village thanks to Naruto after their 2nd final battle which means he is NO LONGER a threat to the Shinobi world and now wishes to see the Ninja world become the one of peace and love that Naruto envisioned.
Sasuke failed to help Obito ressurect the Juubi, because Sasuke failed at his task of kidnapping the 8 Tails (Killer B) So no Sasuke was unable to help Obito with that, Obito retrived the 8 and 9 Tails and Summoned the Juubi all on his own, The deaths of tens of thousands of people that died in the 4th great Ninja war including (Neji) was Obitos fault after all Obito and Black Zetsu orchestrated the entire plot to get the Juubi ressurected in the first place.
I know Sasuke isn't a perfect angel by I want to make sure to give some clarity that Sasuke isn't as big of a bad guy as he is being portrayed

Lol what the hell evidence was there to support the idea that Sasuke didn't kill the samurai, and in fact put everyone there under a genjutsu? Absolutely none. He killed them, just like he killed he cloud ninja on his watch to get Bee. He threatened Bee, a member of the cloud, which could have provoked a war. He is directly responsible for the death of Danzo, who was a village leader. He attacked the 5 leaders and created a world incident. And no, Sasuke didn't fail to help Obito, he brought Obito one of Bee's tentacles, which was fed to the Gedo Mazo and used to resurrect the Juubi. Sasuke is Inc part responsible for the murder of tens of thousands as a result. He is a murderer, there is no getting around that. He was probably the worst written disaster in a manga full of disasters.

Edited by AHK, 20 January 2017 - 06:33 AM.

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#24 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:18 AM

Lol what the hell evidence was there to support the idea that Sasuke didn't kill the samurai, and in fact put everyone there under a genjutsu? Absolutely none. He killed them, just like he killed he cloud ninja on his watch to get Bee. He threatened Bee, a member of the cloud, which could have provoked a war. He is directly responsible for the death of Danzo, who was a village leader. He attacked the 5 leaders and created a world incident. And no, Sasuke didn't fail to help Obito, he brought Obito one of Bee's tentacles, which was fed to the Gedo Mazo and used to resurrect the Juubi. Sasuke is Inc part responsible for the murder of tens of thousands as a result. He is a murderer, there is no getting around that. He was probably the worst written disaster in a manga full of disasters.

All of this is answered with my previous post to this topic...


What cloud ninja has Sasuke killed ?  :huh:

 

The Samurai were under a genjutsu by the Sharingan that made them think they were being killed...

Danzo blew himself up...


It doesn't matter if Sasuke threatened Killer Bee, Sasuke wasn't apart or associated with the Leaf village at the time, Sasuke was a rogue ninja at the time and he attacked Killer Bee while associated with the Akatsuki, So because of that the Cloud Village would target the Akatsuki rather than the Leaf Village so No it would not provoke and start a war between the Leaf Village and the Cloud Village


True Sasuke attacked the 5 Kage but the world incident was caused by Obito, HE was the one making the threats to cause the 4th Great Ninja War not Sasuke


It is required to have the full Tailed Beast as one component along with all Nine Tailed beast to summon the Juubi, Sasuke was only able to bring a single tentacle which doesn't fulfill this requirement so no Sasuke FAILED his mission to retrieve the 8 tails 


Again... Obito and Black Zetsu are the ones responsible for the tens of thousands of deaths during the 4th Great Ninja War after all they are the ones who orchestrated the whole thing NOT Sasuke, Besides Sasuke wasn't present for like 70% of the time the war was happening when he finally arrived at the war he came with the intent to side with his friends to end it.


Sasuke has never killed a single person in his entire life, I still don't understand why he wont admit he wasn't responsible for the deaths of the people he "Killed" Deidara blew himself up, Danzo blew himself up... but yet the world thinks he actually killed them...


If you really think about it Sasuke really doesn't have much of a reason to be on this atonement journey


Edited by BestSasuHinaSupporter, 20 January 2017 - 07:19 AM.


#25 AHK

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 02:53 PM

All of this is answered with my previous post to this topic...
What cloud ninja has Sasuke killed ?  :huh:
 
The Samurai were under a genjutsu by the Sharingan that made them think they were being killed...

Danzo blew himself up...
It doesn't matter if Sasuke threatened Killer Bee, Sasuke wasn't apart or associated with the Leaf village at the time, Sasuke was a rogue ninja at the time and he attacked Killer Bee while associated with the Akatsuki, So because of that the Cloud Village would target the Akatsuki rather than the Leaf Village so No it would not provoke and start a war between the Leaf Village and the Cloud Village
True Sasuke attacked the 5 Kage but the world incident was caused by Obito, HE was the one making the threats to cause the 4th Great Ninja War not Sasuke
It is required to have the full Tailed Beast as one component along with all Nine Tailed beast to summon the Juubi, Sasuke was only able to bring a single tentacle which doesn't fulfill this requirement so no Sasuke FAILED his mission to retrieve the 8 tails 
Again... Obito and Black Zetsu are the ones responsible for the tens of thousands of deaths during the 4th Great Ninja War after all they are the ones who orchestrated the whole thing NOT Sasuke, Besides Sasuke wasn't present for like 70% of the time the war was happening when he finally arrived at the war he came with the intent to side with his friends to end it.
Sasuke has never killed a single person in his entire life, I still don't understand why he wont admit he wasn't responsible for the deaths of the people he "Killed" Deidara blew himself up, Danzo blew himself up... but yet the world thinks he actually killed them...
If you really think about it Sasuke really doesn't have much of a reason to be on this atonement journey

You didn't read the manga at all, did you?

He killed Cloud ninja on the way to capture Bee. The samurai were not under genjutsu. It does matter that Sasuke attacked Bee, he was a former member of the Leaf and Konoha had been negligent in trying to capture him.

The World incident was cause and orchestrated by Sasuke. He was there first, he is the one that threatened the Kage.

As far as then tailed beast and reviving the Juubi, you're wrong. The most obvious example of you being blatantly wrong is how both Naruto and Bee still had Kurama and Guyki still inside them while fighting the Juubi. Obito used the part of Gyuki Sasuke brought him and Kurama's chakra left over the Gold and Silver brothers to revive the Juubi.

Sasuke is just as guilty as Obito, and should have been killed at the end of the story for the amount of lives he was responsible for ending. The lengths you're going to pretend as if Sasuke is innocent is sad.

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#26 Nate River

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 05:05 AM

You didn't read the manga at all, did you?

He killed Cloud ninja on the way to capture Bee. The samurai were not under genjutsu. It does matter that Sasuke attacked Bee, he was a former member of the Leaf and Konoha had been negligent in trying to capture him.

The World incident was cause and orchestrated by Sasuke. He was there first, he is the one that threatened the Kage.

As far as then tailed beast and reviving the Juubi, you're wrong. The most obvious example of you being blatantly wrong is how both Naruto and Bee still had Kurama and Guyki still inside them while fighting the Juubi. Obito used the part of Gyuki Sasuke brought him and Kurama's chakra left over the Gold and Silver brothers to revive the Juubi.

Sasuke is just as guilty as Obito, and should have been killed at the end of the story for the amount of lives he was responsible for ending. The lengths you're going to pretend as if Sasuke is innocent is sad.


What good would killing have Sasuke have done? When the manga killed Obito it returned him to his kid form and he reunited with Rin. He then got to assist Kakashi from the grave. I don't think the manga could have been any clearer that it had deemed Obito reformed and all but absolved him of his sins. This is punishment? This is penance? It did the same with Kabuto despite his obvious murder spree.

 

If Sasuke dies, so what? The manga still would have sought out ways to call him redeemed and the whole thing would still be unsatisfying. 

 

EDIT: I can't believe you guys are arguing over him killing Danzo, the designated kitten. Nobody was sorry to see him go and if pressed, I bet many of the characters thought Sasuke did the world a favor by doing that. 

EDIT 2: SasuHinaFan....what's the excuse for Karin going to be? He clearly intended to let her die after stabbing her. It was unmistakably an act of malice.



#27 BestSasuHinaSupporter

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:06 AM

Lets discuss the Positives and Negatives about Sasuke



-Positives-

 
Sasuke vs. Itachi:

avZD93.gif


In hindsight, the way that the Uchiha fight was written begins to make some sense. Despite being hyped up and filled to the brim with emotions both subtle and ebullient, it came off as anticlimactic, and unsatisfying. Itachi didn’t fight to his full potential for various reasons, while fight itself was overlong and filled with odd twists and turns, leading to a result that failed to match the hype both fans and the story had given it.

 
And that’s the brilliance of the fight: it denies both Sasuke and the reader the catharsis that it otherwise would provide. There’s only the emptiness that Kakashi spoke of all those chapters ago, and a realization that in the end, allowing revenge to consume you only leads to a self-destructive habit that’s hard to kick because said habit defines your entire existence.

 
In addition, this lack of catharsis served to hint at the fact that this was not to be the climax of Sasuke’s subplot. If it had matched the hype, Kishimoto would have been hard pressed to maintain the readers’ interest in Sasuke’s story.


 
Killer B Smacks Taka:

tumblr_mpyaaxAzcU1ssjgtxo1_500.gif


Now this technically is part of the next arc, but since it occurred before Pain’s invasion really got underway, I like to think of it as being the tail end of the Year of Sasuke. After waiting through seemingly endless chapters of the lugubrious Sasuke stealing the spotlight, it was more than a little cathartic to see Killer B, a jovial and upbeat fellow, humiliate Taka repeatedly. Nab the Kubikiribōchō? Check. Off-panel Juugo? Check. Smack around Sasuke? Check. Overcome the otherwise broken genjutsu of a Sharingan user? Check. Tear Sasuke a new kitten? Double check! And when seemingly beaten, set up a decoy body that makes a mockery of Taka and Akatsuki both? It was a moment so beautiful that even Zetsu couldn’t help himself.

 
The only negative was that in order to help Sasuke retain some dignity, Kishimoto had B call the at that point irritatingly overexposed character the strongest opponent he’d ever fought, and reveal that Sasuke hadn’t been fighting at 100 percent due to his wounds.

 
-Nitpicks-

 
Certain Lesser Details: Of course, regardless of one’s own opinion of the fated clash between brothers, one can see a few minor issues that detracted from it.

 
The first was its timing. Make no mistake; the battle between the brothers was possibly the most anticipated fight in the entire story up to that point. However, what weakened its actual impact was the timing of it, namely the fact that for whatever reason, Kishimoto saw fit to feature it right after readers had just gotten bits of a clash between Jiraiya and Pain, two of the heavier hitters in the series. Given the recent dissolution of tension following the end of that battle, it was rather questionable for another fight, even one as anticipated as that between the brothers Uchiha, to start immediately afterward instead of being delayed a bit for the sake of not having to impress a recently exhausted audience.

 
The second issue has to do with the inclusion of Kirin (Don't get me wrong I still love Kirin). The technique was hinted at way back during the kitten Arc when Sasuke seemed prepared to use it against his former team mates. However, it is shown here that as powerful as the Jutsu is, it requires quite a bit of preparation before it becomes practical in an actual battle. Somehow, Sasuke expected to call down lightning without any visible attempts at that. Another issue is the fact that after this arc, Kirin becomes completely irrelevant (Not counting the anime, which was awesome btw). Despite its power, it never shows up again in spite of Sasuke fighting more and more dangerous opponents. It was almost as if it was a cool looking Jutsu that was intended for a single use simply so that the merchandise based on the manga, like say, the video games, could include it in Sasuke’s arsenal as a selling point.

 
-Negative-

 
Uchiha Mess:

90149d1385e8081202f798e574b3428c.jpg


This is when the cracks really started to show in the plot, and overlaps quite a bit with my earlier comments about the growing prominence of lineage as an indicator of prominence. The Uchiha were always going to play a role in the story, but up to a certain point, the Uchiha were relegated to their own subplot revolving around Sasuke. And that was fine. Itachi was a member of Akatsuki, which was itself enough to tie Sasuke’s story to the main plot. However, Kishimoto went overboard and made it such that everything in the plot revolved around the Uchiha, the suddenly introduced Senju, and their famous ancestor.

 
As mentioned above, Sasuke became the center of the plot. He was the core of Naruto’s motivation. He was the target of Tobi’s scheming. The story had shifted so that everything seemed to revolve around him. To make matters worse, the Sharingan became highly overexposed, with ocular power after ocular power being added on, and, as mentioned earlier, this culminated in the reveal that under the right circumstances, you could level up a Sharingan into the Rinnegan.

 
Orochimaru:

giphy.gif


Poor, poor Orochimaru. The main antagonist of Part I was reduced to a joke during this arc. While his initial defeat to Sasuke was anticlimactic, at least there was room for him to return in some form. Then, when he did appear in grand fashion during the Uchiha fight, he pulled out a cool new Jutsu, prepared the Kusanagi… …and got sealed by Itachi within that very chapter. You can’t make this kitten up. This is the sort of thing you might see in badly written fanfic:

“Then the bad guy who was a major villain up to this point got up to fight but then he, like, totally got pwned by the other, more handsome and talented guy before he could do anything.”



I’ve never been a fan of Orochimaru, but I could see why readers thought him a fine villain. At the very least, he was a better one than many of the lame attempts at creating a cool antagonist that would come afterward.

 
Taka and Other Supporting Characters:

3a1fc08e6745cd28dcb095b777a48db099fb1611


Taka is one of the odder additions into the manga. A sort of morally bankrupt version of Team 7, the group had potential for some interesting interplay with Sasuke. At the same time, it was clear that Kishimoto had little interest in Taka. We got introduced to them, they showed off a couple of their skills, and then Sasuke went to fight Itachi.

 
The fight against B brought about some much-needed fleshing out of the characters and actually expanded on their relationship with Sasuke, even if it wasn’t exactly clear just why Suigetsu felt close enough to the others that he was willing to risk his life to defend them from a rampaging jinchuriki. I guess a sadist with a reputation for carving people up from a messed up village might be the sort of interpreting arguments and beatings as forms of affection. When Sasuke eventually abandoned the other members, it all fell flat on an emotional level. Readers never really got to see much in the way of scenes depicting a growing sense of camaraderie among the members of Taka, so his betrayal of them lacked the emotional impact that it did.

 
For the next point, which is about other supporting characters in the arc, remember what I said about the inclusion of Team Guy back during the Kazekage Rescue Mission Arc being pointless fanservice? Well, that continued here with the treatment of Team 8, who all appeared for the sole purpose of ensuring that their fans would buy these particular volumes. While they were given some hints of growth (Hinata could see further, Kiba could smell better than a dog, and Shino could prepare even larger scale attacks with his bugs), in the end, it didn’t really amount to much. Where the growth of the main characters in Team 7 proved relevant to the plot, the so-called growth of these characters didn’t really do anything other than waste panels. It was a shame too, given that one of the major strengths of the series prior to Part II was the interesting supporting cast. 

 

 



#28 rocci

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:32 AM

@riverkid

Wow, that's a great post with detail analysis.
I agree with most you said in that post, but there's something that I disagree.

Well, for starter I will talk about sasuke design. Sasuke is design as rival and avenger. Since kishi is not creative, he took many inspiration like for example kurapika from hxh. But I believe kishi use one character as the blue print of sasuke character and that character is rukawa from slamdunk. Rukawa is main character rival who has big female fan and the love interest of the mc like him too, just like sakura. And other rival character such as vegeta, killua, Griffith, tetsuo, ect.
And his design is cool and follow the cool guy code.

Now, let's talk about my disagreement, I disagree that :

1. Sasuke is not villain because for whatever reason kishi never make him into one. Even in his darkest story(kage summit arc). He's a rival and avenger. Kishi keep it up until the end.

2. I disagree that sasuke is emotion. Sasuke is everything but emotional, he's actually logical and he's only get emotion toward his family and later naruto.

3. I disagree that sasuke is the worst writing character, that title belong to kaguya imo. Kishi put much effort and time to write his favorite character to the point that he can change the title to sasuke and everyone will agree. Eventhough I will not call him the best character either.

#29 rocci

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 03:50 AM

@riverkid
Another reason why the conversation between sasuke and tobi is bad, because it serve to justify itachi massacre. I used to believe that itachi isn't a bad guy because I think he doesn't truly kill the uchihas. I think he just happen to be there when the people already died.

I think, naruto vs sasuke should happen three time with sasuke win the first fight, naruto win the second fight, and draw in the third fight. That way kishi can finish the build up from the beginning of part one and before the war arc.

I think sasuke should lead the alliance of small village while naruto lead the five village and their final fight should determine the future of ninja world. Thus kishi doesn't need to use hokage as an excuse because hokage is not king of pira... I mean ninja.

Sasuke love his family, sasuke respect people who's strong(er than him), and sasuke acknowledge useful people.

This is kind of nitpick but I think sasuke should be avenger at the age of 11 or 12 rather than 7/8 years old. Because for such a genius, he doesn't strong enough especially when you have 5 years to learn another elemental jutsu and doing all genin trick.

This is what I want to add from your post. ^^

#30 Riverkid

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 05:54 AM

@riverkid

Wow, that's a great post with detail analysis.
I agree with most you said in that post, but there's something that I disagree.

Well, for starter I will talk about sasuke design. Sasuke is design as rival and avenger. Since kishi is not creative, he took many inspiration like for example kurapika from hxh. But I believe kishi use one character as the blue print of sasuke character and that character is rukawa from slamdunk. Rukawa is main character rival who has big female fan and the love interest of the mc like him too, just like sakura. And other rival character such as vegeta, killua, Griffith, tetsuo, ect.
And his design is cool and follow the cool guy code.

Now, let's talk about my disagreement, I disagree that :

1. Sasuke is not villain because for whatever reason kishi never make him into one. Even in his darkest story(kage summit arc). He's a rival and avenger. Kishi keep it up until the end.

2. I disagree that sasuke is emotion. Sasuke is everything but emotional, he's actually logical and he's only get emotion toward his family and later naruto.

3. I disagree that sasuke is the worst writing character, that title belong to kaguya imo. Kishi put much effort and time to write his favorite character to the point that he can change the title to sasuke and everyone will agree. Eventhough I will not call him the best character either.

 

Hey rocci, thx for taking your time to write your opinion about my 'analysis'

I'm not a Story/Characterwriter, and i rarely did a reviews/analysis on fctional Characters. So i wouldn't call it 'analysis' either - they are just my thoughts about the Character (nothing else).

1. I'm not quite familiar with the animes/mangas you mentioned so i can't give my thoughts about that, however you do a have good point. You are right that most of his actions are caused by his role as a 'avenger' but it didn't prevent the results which leads him to a 'villain'

- hunting down Killer-Bee has nothing to do with his revenge, and he just supports the 'main-villain' (akatsuki) with his actions. A accomplice of the main-villain is also a villain. 

- his decision to kill the current kages to lead the world with his own 'idea' also has less to do with his role as a 'avenger', and just cause him to be in the same place as Obito and Madara (because these two Character also tried to lead the world on their  own ideas to 'force' the peace) 

- being an antagonist doesn't mean that you are automatically a 'villain', yes. Sasuke had his own convictions for his revenge against Itachi, and also his move to seek out orochimaru. However after killing Itachi he just caused 'bad' things in the world, and also against the Protagonist of the story -> which automatically turns him into a villain, and 'villains' are the guys who are doing the 'bad' things -> and a good moral convictions doesn't make a 'bad'-action good.

2. i didn't talk about situational emotions (i guess i should have pointed that out more). You are right that Sasuke is calm in most situations (in Part 1 he was more mature than Naruto and Sakura). He is never overheated in battles, and always have a clearer mindset than Naruto.

I tallk about the long-terms Emotions (love, hate, revenge, disappoitment etc.) which the writer can 'use' to drive the Character, and Sasuke is driven by that. If u take a look at Naruto then he is by far more emotionell than Sasuke, yes (he can be easily angry, shows his affections more, always happy, cries more etc.) but his drive is not ruled by them. He should have a lot 'hate' especially towards Pein and Obtio, but he suppressed them all the time  to do the 'logical right' move which kishimoto wants him to do. He should make a move towards to Sakura because of the 'love' he has for her.. but again are suppressed because he thinks its not right to do that without bringing sasuke back etc. 

The second Hokage mentioned in the conversation with Sasuke that the 'Uchihas' are people easily driven by their emotions. Thats also the reason why Obito was so easiley driven by hate because of rin to start a whole war (it was still exeggeration)

3. Kaguya is a bad Character compared to the other villains (Madara, Pein). Kaguya is more a 'unneeded' Characterwriting rather than a 'horrible' Characterwriting. 

How i see Kaguya:

I assume that Kishimoto created the 'reincarnation'-stuff just to create a profound meaning for his NaruSasu build-up. Because of that he had the 'room' to implement Kaguya in his Story to particularly round up 'this' part of his build-up. So Kaguya was just a bonus-villain to give a climax towards the whole 'reincarnation'-part.

although Kaguya had little 'room' to work with (because she was foreshadowed in the last 10% of  the Story) Kishimoto still somehow f*ed up her Characterwriting. Because of Kaguya the climax from the war-arc towards madara were destroyed (thats the main reason why she is a bad Character - because of this  'unneeded' Character kishimoto sacrified the madara-climax of the arc)

In the first Chapter she teleports everyone to a another dimension and lets them all fall down to the lava, and in the next chapter she said: "no, i can't kill them.. i need their chakra" ???? then why did u try to kill them 1 chapter previously ?

Kaguya is a bad written Character yes, but her bad/poor wiriting doesn't have the same weights as Sasukes writing. Kaguya also didn't put the amount of damage to the story as Sasuke did. (she just kittened up the climax of the final-arc, while sasuke caused damage to the majority of the story)

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I don't want to devalue your point-of-view with my own thoughts/opinion. I just wanted to share my deep-thoughts about your mentioned points. I agree with many things you mentioned, but don't agree on the whole width

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Ye its pretty sad that Kishimoto turned Itachi like that, i mean that was the main reason why he was a great Character in the first place... (Kishimoto: "well, Itachi is dead now.. now can i do whatever i want with him.. lets just re-build his whole character so i can involve danzo and tobi")


Edited by Riverkid, 22 January 2017 - 06:44 AM.





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