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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#47721 Gravenimage

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:55 PM

Yeah i know what you mean. ciardha was a high believer of NS it must have been a real shock to her to know the opposite happened.


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#47722 RulesofNature

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:00 PM

Yeah! I still remember the good old days when NH fans were saying that Hinata would manage to keep Naruto in control despite her personality, yeah that turned out to be fine  :roll:

 

The big thing was people took it at face value, never looking deeper into the NaruHina dynamic. Hinata didn't know who Naruto was deep down, only observing him from afar. This is the Naruto she fell in love with, and there has been a certain degree of selfishness in her affections. What's worse is she's devoted her life to gaining his hand.

 

People assumed Hinata would get character development, becoming more self-confidence in the process. But she didn't, and she won the Ramenbowl through the creator pitying her, the studio backing her, and a movie that created a lot of unfortunate implications for the characters. She remained the same child she always was, and her devotion to Naruto-Kun has he enabling his behavior without regard to the dysfunction the rest of her family is in. She's not married to Naruto, she's playing house.


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#47723 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 01:12 AM

The big thing was people took it at face value, never looking deeper into the NaruHina dynamic. Hinata didn't know who Naruto was deep down, only observing him from afar. This is the Naruto she fell in love with, and there has been a certain degree of selfishness in her affections. What's worse is she's devoted her life to gaining his hand.
 
People assumed Hinata would get character development, becoming more self-confidence in the process. But she didn't, and she won the Ramenbowl through the creator pitying her, the studio backing her, and a movie that created a lot of unfortunate implications for the characters. She remained the same child she always was, and her devotion to Naruto-Kun has he enabling his behavior without regard to the dysfunction the rest of her family is in. She's not married to Naruto, she's playing house.


Yeah, Hinata basically isn't in love with Naruto himself, she's in love with the IDEA of who she thinks Naruto Uzumaki, like you said. And she never believed in Naruto and what he could do. It's why she didn't seem to think he could beat Kiba, or how she mentally said "no more" after Neji hit Naruto with the 8 Trigrams 64 Palms, or her overreaction to Obito/Tobi kicking Naruto ONCE. And her biggest lack of faith in him REALLY showed when he fought Pain/Nagato, which almost got her and everyone else killed because she couldn't stand back and believe in him.

#47724 RulesofNature

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:59 AM

Yeah, Hinata basically isn't in love with Naruto himself, she's in love with the IDEA of who she thinks Naruto Uzumaki, like you said. And she never believed in Naruto and what he could do. It's why she didn't seem to think he could beat Kiba, or how she mentally said "no more" after Neji hit Naruto with the 8 Trigrams 64 Palms, or her overreaction to Obito/Tobi kicking Naruto ONCE. And her biggest lack of faith in him REALLY showed when he fought Pain/Nagato, which almost got her and everyone else killed because she couldn't stand back and believe in him.

 

Sorry, this vid popped into my mind. Don't know why. I mean, Taylor Swift songs sound sweet and cute, but we're talking about Hinata here.


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#47725 Catra

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:11 AM

i dislike Taylor Swift as a person now because she jumped on the hashtag me too bandwagon and ruined a dj's career because of it. the former DJ is now suing her and I pray that he wins against her because im tired of the law ALWAYS taking the women's side of the story.



#47726 winter-serenade

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:10 AM

Reminder that Sakura still believes Sasuke tried to kiss her on the bench when they first got assigned to teams. Naruto still hasn't told her that he technically complimented her forehead, her biggest insecurity during that time when she was a child.

#47727 Phantom_999

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:24 AM

The BIGGEST  indicator to let Sakura fall for Naruto instead of Sasuke was swept under the rug for no reason. And I am not exaggerating on that. The fact that should Naruto have ever told Sakura that truth, she would realize that Naruto was the one that always loved her for who she is, and that her biggest physical trait shame is what he finds charming. BUT NOPE, that had to be buried for a pair of bewbies 


Edited by Phantom_999, 20 January 2018 - 10:26 PM.

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#47728 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:49 AM

The BIGGEST  indicator to let Sakura fall for Naruto instead of Sasuke was swept under the rug for no reason. And I am not exaggerating on that. the fact that should Naruto have ever told Sakura that truth she would realize that Naruto was the one that always loved her for who she is, and that her biggest physical trait shame is what he finds charming. bUT NOPE that had to be brushed under the rug to for  a pair of  bewbies

 

a quick poke to them with a pin will do the trick.


Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 07 January 2018 - 06:49 AM.

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#47729 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:01 AM

 

The big thing was people took it at face value, never looking deeper into the NaruHina dynamic. Hinata didn't know who Naruto was deep down, only observing him from afar. This is the Naruto she fell in love with, and there has been a certain degree of selfishness in her affections. What's worse is she's devoted her life to gaining his hand.

 

People assumed Hinata would get character development, becoming more self-confidence in the process. But she didn't, and she won the Ramenbowl through the creator pitying her, the studio backing her, and a movie that created a lot of unfortunate implications for the characters. She remained the same child she always was, and her devotion to Naruto-Kun has he enabling his behavior without regard to the dysfunction the rest of her family is in. She's not married to Naruto, she's playing house.

Hinatats is towards Naruto literally the exact same as Sakura, Ino, and the other fangirls were over Sasuke in part one - crushing on a mentally idealized version of their crush, but never actually knowing the actual person, much less "understanding" them. The difference is that, ignoring the ending, Sakura and the others were actually growing up and learning to be mature about such things, actually looking closer, and admitting their own faults about such things like Sakura mentally admitting to herself how she never truly knew Naruto and such. Hinatatas, however, NEVER did the same. Rather than grow up and mature in a similar fashion, perhaps even finding she may not have truly "loved" Naruto like she believed she did, she instead just seems to further retreat into her own little fantasy world in her delusional mind.

Sure, Hinatatas may have seen Naruto with his guard down more compared to how he normally appears to most people as a little kid, but even after seeing how he was apparently "like her" (pfft), she still never tried to approach him in any fashion. Not even a freaking anonymous note of encouragement (which destroys any excuse for "she's just too shy" as, obviously, Naruto wouldn't know it was from her) or anything (which, for Naruto back then, would have meant the world to him). Just complete distance and silence, even when Naruto was being knocked down by others. It's why a lot of people see it as Hinatatas, as opposed to being "shy", actually wanting Naruto to keep failing and remain who he is - so he can keep being an "inspiration" to her and she can continue to leech off of his work and determination rather than do anything herself. I mean, she literally STOLE his nindo at the Chunin Exams; something that was UNIQUE to Naruto himself, essentially his own life lesson to live by, in order to make herself feel "strong" against Neji.


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#47730 RidiculouslyBored

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

NaruHina is one of those ships I'm somewhat conflicted on. I don't hate it and at one point I was just fine with it happening (although NaruSaku was always my primary ship post time skip). I don't even dislike her or NaruHina as a whole. If I'm looking at it with some objective subjectivity (lol), it's not the worst pairing I have seen in fiction. That said, the canon perfectly highlights why they aren't a great fit together. I don't even need to regurgitate the reasons, the evidence is plain as day.

For me, NaruHina is that cute couple that meet in high school, date for a year or two, split amicably, and remain great friends for the rest of their lives with the story of the two dating being told to their children at a gathering of friends and family years later and met with laughs and nostalgic smiles...I might have to write a fanfic for that.

Reminder that Sakura still believes Sasuke tried to kiss her on the bench when they first got assigned to teams. Naruto still hasn't told her that he technically complimented her forehead, her biggest insecurity during that time when she was a child.


It still annoys me that people who support the canon end pairings will act as though it didn't happen or it wasn't an important event. It is just summarily swept under the rug and not addressed, or even worse, marginalized as just some innocuous event with no bearing on characterization or plot.

#47731 StrikerTheNoble

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 05:47 PM

Its weird to think about some of these things in a darker light. I havent seen the "canon" movies but from what I understand Naruto's love for Hinata was more or less caused by a genjutsu... how does that not raise any red flags. The guy literally entered a marriage with a girl he had no real feelings for until his mental state was severely altered. I dont really wanna go into Cosby territory here but who signed off on this?

Its not much different for Sakura. If we're supposed to believe that she held her feelings for her (twice) would be murderer, the forehead scene had to be a major factor. And that was based on a false truth. So one has to wonder... did Sakura just never bring this up to Sasuke or did he just lie about it when she did?

If that was the case both Naruto and Sakura were in some way taken advantage of.

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#47732 winter-serenade

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:15 PM

Its weird to think about some of these things in a darker light. I havent seen the "canon" movies but from what I understand Naruto's love for Hinata was more or less caused by a genjutsu... how does that not raise any red flags. The guy literally entered a marriage with a girl he had no real feelings for until his mental state was severely altered. I dont really wanna go into Cosby territory here but who signed off on this?
Its not much different for Sakura. If we're supposed to believe that she held her feelings for her (twice) would be murderer, the forehead scene had to be a major factor. And that was based on a false truth. So one has to wonder... did Sakura just never bring this up to Sasuke or did he just lie about it when she did?
If that was the case both Naruto and Sakura were in some way taken advantage of.


The very thought is quite disturbing. If we look at this from a literal perspective, Naruto was essentially forced into an illusion, forced to endure a genjutsu to "realize" his pseudo-feelings for a girl he didn't even know, he BARELY knew.

If we look at this from a real-world perspective, it's as if he was randomly drugged with LSD, has ridiculous hallucinations that manipulate his emotions, and realizes that he "already loves" some random girl.

Since I was forced to remember the Last in writing this, I might as well rant on the scene of when Iruka asked who they wanted to spend their last day living with if the world ended tomorrow (which is a brutal question to ask young children, but I digress) I'm amazed that Naruto didn't know how ti answer this question and said that he would have put Hinata's name. What about his parents? What about Iruka? What about Teuchi, the ramen chef? Any of those would made more sense. And what about Hinata's answer? Why wouldn't she to slend more time with her mother? I get she's dead by then, but Iruka's question was hypothetical and he said ANYONE. It makes Hinata look bad.

Scratch that. Everything post-699 makes everyone look bad.

#47733 Gravenimage

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:30 PM

The very thought is quite disturbing. If we look at this from a literal perspective, Naruto was essentially forced into an illusion, forced to endure a genjutsu to "realize" his pseudo-feelings for a girl he didn't even know, he BARELY knew.

If we look at this from a real-world perspective, it's as if he was randomly drugged with LSD, has ridiculous hallucinations that manipulate his emotions, and realizes that he "already loves" some random girl.

Since I was forced to remember the Last in writing this, I might as well rant on the scene of when Iruka asked who they wanted to spend their last day living with if the world ended tomorrow (which is a brutal question to ask young children, but I digress) I'm amazed that Naruto didn't know how ti answer this question and said that he would have put Hinata's name. What about his parents? What about Iruka? What about Teuchi, the ramen chef? Any of those would made more sense. And what about Hinata's answer? Why wouldn't she to slend more time with her mother? I get she's dead by then, but Iruka's question was hypothetical and he said ANYONE. It makes Hinata look bad.

Scratch that. Everything post-699 makes everyone look bad.

 

Bold I don't find it disturbing, I find it cruel and uncalled for. The Last was a movie that made Naruto loved a girl he BARELY knows to fall in love with her by FORCE. It's truly cruel. The movie itself is a disgrace never ending torture nightmare for Naruto, Not just he was forced to love the girl he has NEVER love in the whole story because he has always seen her to be WEIRD but he was made to say that BS crap excuse that he only love Sakura because of his rivalry with Sasuke. It's ridiculous you don't like a girl for YEARS just because she's your trophy over your competition with your rival/best friend. It's nothing but bull crap. Then Naruto sees memory when he used to play with Hinata when they were little, which it was NEVER shown in the manga (but rather that Naruto knew Sakura since they were kids and he probably like her since then). But hey, those memories were only made by the anime (filler crap). So they were added to the piece of kitten movie, which it was one of the many things that goes against the manga itself. And don't get me started on the blasted scarf, I hate it more than Hinata. 

 

I will always say it the Last is the worse anime movie ever. Never thought I will ever say that because to me, there isn't a bad anime movie. Until now.

 

I find it ironic the movie should have been about Naruto finally embracing his feelings for Sakura and confessing to her. But NOOOOO, it's about forcing him to love a girl he doesn't know by the most kitten up way. Why couldn't they have made Hinata admit that Naruto will never love her, to finally move on, to focus on her family clan and their future instead of having Naruto in the brain 24/7. Does anyone know what was the hidden message in the Last for the viewers? If a girl likes you for so long and you barely know kitten about her, you have to obligatory love her back even when you know nothing of her? I wonder if Kishimoto's wife saw the movie. 


Edited by Gravenimage, 07 January 2018 - 09:35 PM.

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#47734 ultranx

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:16 PM

I now know 2 other strong female characters that would destroy hinata in a fight, I've been watching a playthrough of xenoblade chronicles 2, and pyra/mythra and nia would crush her completely. especially pyra/mythra being she and rex are able to go faster than the speed of light.

 

 

also what have I missed? has boruto gotten any worse?


Edited by ultranx, 07 January 2018 - 11:25 PM.

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#47735 Gravenimage

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:41 PM

I now know 2 other strong female characters that would destroy hinata in a fight, I've been watching a playthrough of xenoblade chronicles 2, and pyra/mythra and nia would crush her completely. especially pyra/mythra being she and rex are able to go faster than the speed of light.

 

 

also what have I missed? has boruto gotten any worse?

 

No offense but I think any female character in anime and games will beat her. I mean Hinata has proven to be strong enough to be able to beat white Zetsu clones when it was proven that Zetsu was the weakest member of Akatsuki lol. :zaru:

 

Also Boruto will always get worse with each episode so no need to ask a trick question.


Edited by Gravenimage, 07 January 2018 - 11:42 PM.

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#47736 winter-serenade

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:47 PM

I dont hate Hinata, but it amazes me when people say Hinata can currently beat Sakura. In Part 1, I completely agree. The only thing holding back Hinata would probably be Naruto’s protests if they faced each other in the Exams (she'd probably forfeit, but I digress). After Tsunade’s training? I'll be kind and say debatable. After obtaining the seal? I'll be kind again and say absolutely not.

#47737 Gravenimage

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:51 PM

I dont hate Hinata, but it amazes me when people say Hinata can currently beat Sakura. In Part 1, I completely agree. The only thing holding back Hinata would probably be Naruto’s protests if they faced each other in the Exams (she'd probably forfeit, but I digress). After Tsunade’s training? I'll be kind and say debatable. After obtaining the seal? I'll be kind again and say absolutely not.

 

Agreed but was it ever mentioned in the manga if Hinata finished her training under Hiashi? Or was it Neji who took the responsibility in finishing the training? Either way for the heiress of the Hyugga clan, she's average compare to Neji who defeated her back in part 1. I highly doubt she would be able to lay a hand on him if they have fought in part 2.


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#47738 RulesofNature

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:08 AM

 

Agreed but was it ever mentioned in the manga if Hinata finished her training under Hiashi? Or was it Neji who took the responsibility in finishing the training? Either way for the heiress of the Hyugga clan, she's average compare to Neji who defeated her back in part 1. I highly doubt she would be able to lay a hand on him if they have fought in part 2.

 

Hinata lost her position as heiress in part I and never got it back.


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#47739 Gravenimage

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:31 AM

 

Hinata lost her position as heiress in part I and never got it back.

 

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Her sister Hanabi took her place as the heiress lol. 


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#47740 Kagomaru

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:32 AM

 

No offense but I think any female character in anime and games will beat her. I mean Hinata has proven to be strong enough to be able to beat white Zetsu clones when it was proven that Zetsu was the weakest member of Akatsuki lol. :zaru:

 

Also Boruto will always get worse with each episode so no need to ask a trick question.

I reiterate the point that Sakura was tearing through an army of Juubi clones and Hinata barely defeated one by herself. And that was without her seal activated.

 

And yeah, any reasonably powerful female character could beat Hinata.  


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