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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#50061 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:36 AM

I just want to point out that the images show Hanabi worshiping her sister but in the third image Hinata actually doesn't reflect that back instead having a very cold/neutral look, and as for the last image from what I understand Toneri looked into her mind after that and saw what was solely on Hinata's mind was thoughts of Naruto.

SEE!?!?! I WANNA SAY SOMETHING BUT THEN THEY GONNA JUMP ON MY ASS AND CLAIM I'M SALTY AND ALL THAT CRAP AND I JUST DON'T NEED ANOTHER STUPID ASS REMINDER OF HOW DAMN DUMB AND BAD AT STUFF I AM!!! @_@

 

...Sorry, that was bad of me, I just am frustrated.



#50062 James S Cassidy

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:00 PM

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...People like this piss me off because they assume what I was saying was out of spite, but I am saying it because it is just a damn shame what Hinata had become, and yet they seem to constantly USE STUPID FILLER THAT HAS NO PLACE SO I GOT NO RAISINS TO WANT TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO ARGUE MY POINT WHEN SOMEONE IS GONNA BE AN ASS LIKE THIS!!!

 

Sometimes, I just want to take a tire iron to all of them, but it'd make me no better than them, when they just don't listen to reason, and just wanna assume I'm wrong, they're right. Part of it to me is that they don't SEE how they're wrong, and the other part is I hate to be proven wrong because it just makes me feel stupid (blame it on me being autistic even if I'm high functioning).

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#50063 catsi563

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 07:13 PM

I think that one of the reasons pro Hinata fans find her so relatable is that the character is so flat and shallow with so little characterization past Naruto that they cant help but imprint upon her, Theres so little actual development that someone can imagine themselves in hinatas shoes easilly.

 

which is ironic because Sakura is actually the more relatable character and has actual development pre ending


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#50064 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 10:47 PM

I can't see the page, but it involves me somehow.


Yeah, it was something that you shared on your Tumblr page, and I had shared as well since it made me think, and pro Hinata fans have been reblogging my post and saying how were wrong and theyre right. The usual stupid BS

#50065 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 01:50 AM

Yeah, it was something that you shared on your Tumblr page, and I had shared as well since it made me think, and pro Hinata fans have been reblogging my post and saying how were wrong and theyre right. The usual stupid BS

tenor.gif?itemid=5412566

 

This is NaruHina fans everytime they see James S Cassidy make a great point about Hinata.


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#50066 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 03:32 AM

tenor.gif?itemid=5412566

 

This is NaruHina fans everytime they see James S Cassidy make a great point about Hinata.

 

Yeah, and they just wanna explode! XD



#50067 James S Cassidy

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 04:32 PM

tenor.gif?itemid=5412566

 

This is NaruHina fans everytime they see James S Cassidy make a great point about Hinata.

Lol. I can see it now.

Proender: "Anybody who says "NH sucks" again, I will break their legs? Who says NH sucks?"
Me: "That's person" *points to a NH fan*
Proender: *shocked look on their face*
Me: "Are you going to go break their legs. Proender Principal?"
 

 

Yeah, it was something that you shared on your Tumblr page, and I had shared as well since it made me think, and pro Hinata fans have been reblogging my post and saying how were wrong and theyre right. The usual stupid BS

I don't know what the post is, but I have to wonder if the original was by a former NH fan. That would be funny.

And yeah, they do have a nasty habit of me pointing out the obvious and then getting mad. Like, the same people when I debunk anything about Goku and the DB fanboys lose it.

Speaking of which, I noticed more and more that Dragonball Super's fans are pulling a Naruto proenders fans motif. They instantly hate on anyone who points out issue with Super and call them "not true fans."


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#50068 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 06:31 PM

Speaking of which, I noticed more and more that Dragonball Super's fans are pulling a Naruto proenders fans motif. They instantly hate on anyone who points out issue with Super and call them "not true fans."

 

Well, let's face it, Super rightfully has issues going for it, even if it does add some good stuff to the canon in its own ways, it still has huge hiccups going for it, especially in the manga.

 

As for the original post, it was about a former NH fan, as you said, talking about the shortcomings of Hinata in the end of the series and how it didn't matter. Guess whoever did the reblog deleted it by deciding to be a coward rather than to let it remain up XP



#50069 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:17 AM

And yeah, they do have a nasty habit of me pointing out the obvious and then getting mad. Like, the same people when I debunk anything about Goku and the DB fanboys lose it.

Speaking of which, I noticed more and more that Dragonball Super's fans are pulling a Naruto proenders fans motif. They instantly hate on anyone who points out issue with Super and call them "not true fans."

 
I always find it Hilarious that the common mentality of these days is if you are an actual fan of something you can NEVER admit if it has flaws. It must be  perfect in your eyes and devoid of anything but flawlessness. That admitting a flaw of something is a personal attack on that thing and indrectly attacking fans' worth of their love for that thing. It's Funny, really funny.


Edited by Phantom_999, 18 January 2019 - 01:21 AM.

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#50070 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 02:04 AM

 
I always find it Hilarious that the common mentality of these days is if you are an actual fan of something you can NEVER admit if it has flaws. It must be  perfect in your eyes and devoid of anything but flawlessness. That admitting a flaw of something is a personal attack on that thing and indrectly attacking fans' worth of their love for that thing. It's Funny, really funny.

It's why I tend not to get too involved with "fandoms" of anything huge and/or popular anymore (Star Wars, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Marvel, DC, etc.) - hypocrisy, double standards, and never-happy/satisfied/accepting/etc. people all around.


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#50071 Kagomaru

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 04:19 AM

Unfortunately, that's the case with fanbases no matter how large or small the community is. Hell, I know that most of my favorite series are flawed on several levels, but I love them regardless.

Light and Shadow are the only static creations of this universe. 


#50072 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:08 PM

 
I always find it Hilarious that the common mentality of these days is if you are an actual fan of something you can NEVER admit if it has flaws. It must be  perfect in your eyes and devoid of anything but flawlessness. That admitting a flaw of something is a personal attack on that thing and indrectly attacking fans' worth of their love for that thing. It's Funny, really funny.

It is such a shame. I mean, this has been a recent thing where fans have gotten so radical about everything that they are willing to eat each other alive for it. Hell, this is even in politics today. It is just scary how these people have gotten so angry and so insane over things that they lose their minds.

Take example the Goku vs Superman Death Battle.
This is probably the one Death Battle Screwattack didn't do their own research. No, they asked the fans for the research. They went to the two biggest fan pages of the each character and asked them for stats and these angry radical fans didn't even realize that THEIR OWN FANDOM CAUSE GOKU'S DOWNFALL. They went to the Kanzenshuu and the Superman Homepage. Two well known DBZ  and Superman fansites of some of the biggest fans to the franchises and they gave everything they had and could to put forth to the effort.

Kanzenshuu, after the Death Battle showed Goku losing, was attacked so fierce for supposedly not giving "the correct information."

Like, these are your own fellow fans who gave the info in the DB and yet want to call them not true fans because they say "Yeah, Goku can't beat Superman." Where were these radical fans at the time when they were looking for info? Did they not contribute? It's almost as bad as people not voting and then complain and lose their minds when the person they didn't want becomes President. It is just sad.

Naruto is the same way. I was just in a discussion with someone who used the exact same argument everyone else does with the whole "Sakura didn't value Naruto." According to him, this is why NS would have been worse. And I argued with him about how not only was he wrong, but that also means he thinks Minato and Kushina would have made a bad couple because they were the exact same dynamic.

Even Kushina admits this
Kushina-looking-down.jpg

 

"I was young and didn't know anything...."

The same thing can be said for Sakura. Even Minato said that Sakura was just like Kushina. Kids are inexperienced and stupid, but that does not mean they can't grow and change. Something these Naruto fans can't seem to grasp.

These radical fans can't seem to grasp the term "Character development."

So basically, if these fans love Minato and Kushina being a couple...why do they hate NaruSaku if they are the same dynamic? I know the answers, but this is what I pushed towards. How can you love Minato and Kushina, but hate NaruSaku when they are the exact same dynamic?

And still this is without looking at the retcon ending with all characters doing a 180 or 360 character flip because they "wanted SS and NH to be canon." Like, don't they realize that their obsession with these pairings is what cause 99% of the character problems in the first place? Don't they realize that if NaruSaku became canon, A LOT of the character issues that they hated about them would have been resolved?

"Sakura is too obsessive"
Well, if she got with Naruto, then she would not have been obsessive now would she? DUUUHHHH!!!!

So, these people never think that they caused their own grievances.

"We just wanted Naruto to be happy"
Well, he doesn't look happy to me. He looks miserable and downtrodden and the more Boruto keeps going the more it makes it confirmed that NH and SS was a mistake.
 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 January 2019 - 05:08 PM.

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#50073 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:09 PM

Unfortunately, that's the case with fanbases no matter how large or small the community is. Hell, I know that most of my favorite series are flawed on several levels, but I love them regardless.

 

Sometimes, the flaws can be a problem, but there can be quite a few series were regardless of the flaws, you can look for some of the best things about it, even if it can be hard.



#50074 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:19 PM

 

Sometimes, the flaws can be a problem, but there can be quite a few series were regardless of the flaws, you can look for some of the best things about it, even if it can be hard.

There is a limit though and I think Toriyama has outdid himself with power scaling in DBSuper.

They want to say that Goku is now a god, but Krillian with 5 minutes of training can match him in power...somehow. I remember some fans say that since Goku has God ki now, he can't be touched by anyone less than another God, but if that is the case, how do non-Gods like Krillin, Caulifia, Kale, Golden Freeza/minions, and a few others able to inflict damage on him? So that kind of throws that "theory" out the water.

Again, like I said in a post long before....people bash Sword Art Online for how ridiculous the power scaling is in that series with the biggest complaint is Kirito gaining power off screen and being almost unbeatable. My own arguments was "If you watch a let's play, do you watch all 6 hours of an RPG of them just grinding in the same area?"

So to me, if it is bad in one series, it should be bad in all series. You can't just pick and choose that one series can do it without complaints, but another can do it slightly and have massive problems with it. Especially in the example I have given where I can explain why we don't see some things occur.

I can explain how Kirito can be powerful off screen using simple video game logic, but I can't really explain how Krillian gets a power boost off screen.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 January 2019 - 05:21 PM.

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#50075 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:21 PM

There is a limit though and I think Toriyama has outdid himself with power scaling in DBZ.

They want to say that Goku is now a god, but Krillian with 5 minutes of training can match him in power...somehow.

Again, like I said in a post long before....people bash Sword Art Online for how ridiculous the power scaling is in that series with the biggest complaint is Kirito gaining power off screen and being almost unbeatable. My own arguments was "If you watch a let's play, do you watch all 6 hours of an RPG of them just grinding in the same area?"

So to me, if it is bad in one series, it should be bad in all series. You can't just pick and choose that one series can do it without complaints, but another can do it slightly and have massive problems with it. Especially in the example I have given where I can explain why we don't see some things occur.

I can explain how Kirito can be powerful off screen using simple video game logic, but I can't really explain how Krillian gets a power boost off screen.

 

You sure aren't wrong about that, James. We also see it sometimes with other shows. And you nailed it so far with Dragon Ball Super and SAO. Some series have handled it a bit better though, even if it isn't easy, and it can be a serious problem. I wasn't just referring to stuff like power-ups, but other stuff too, like what was good about something before it went to ****.



#50076 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:28 PM

It is such a shame. I mean, this has been a recent thing where fans have gotten so radical about everything that they are willing to eat each other alive for it. Hell, this is even in politics today. It is just scary how these people have gotten so angry and so insane over things that they lose their minds.

Take example the Goku vs Superman Death Battle.
This is probably the one Death Battle Screwattack didn't do their own research. No, they asked the fans for the research. They went to the two biggest fan pages of the each character and asked them for stats and these angry radical fans didn't even realize that THEIR OWN FANDOM CAUSE GOKU'S DOWNFALL. They went to the Kanzenshuu and the Superman Homepage. Two well known DBZ  and Superman fansites of some of the biggest fans to the franchises and they gave everything they had and could to put forth to the effort.

Kanzenshuu, after the Death Battle showed Goku losing, was attacked so fierce for supposedly not giving "the correct information."

Like, these are your own fellow fans who gave the info in the DB and yet want to call them not true fans because they say "Yeah, Goku can't beat Superman." Where were these radical fans at the time when they were looking for info? Did they not contribute? It's almost as bad as people not voting and then complain and lose their minds when the person they didn't want becomes President. It is just sad.

Naruto is the same way. I was just in a discussion with someone who used the exact same argument everyone else does with the whole "Sakura didn't value Naruto." According to him, this is why NS would have been worse. And I argued with him about how not only was he wrong, but that also means he thinks Minato and Kushina would have made a bad couple because they were the exact same dynamic.

Even Kushina admits this
Kushina-looking-down.jpg

 

"I was young and didn't know anything...."

The same thing can be said for Sakura. Even Minato said that Sakura was just like Kushina. Kids are inexperienced and stupid, but that does not mean they can't grow and change. Something these Naruto fans can't seem to grasp.

These radical fans can't seem to grasp the term "Character development."

So basically, if these fans love Minato and Kushina being a couple...why do they hate NaruSaku if they are the same dynamic? I know the answers, but this is what I pushed towards. How can you love Minato and Kushina, but hate NaruSaku when they are the exact same dynamic?

And still this is without looking at the retcon ending with all characters doing a 180 or 360 character flip because they "wanted SS and NH to be canon." Like, don't they realize that their obsession with these pairings is what cause 99% of the character problems in the first place? Don't they realize that if NaruSaku became canon, A LOT of the character issues that they hated about them would have been resolved?

"Sakura is too obsessive"
Well, if she got with Naruto, then she would not have been obsessive now would she? DUUUHHHH!!!!

So, these people never think that they caused their own grievances.

"We just wanted Naruto to be happy"
Well, he doesn't look happy to me. He looks miserable and downtrodden and the more Boruto keeps going the more it makes it confirmed that NH and SS was a mistake.
 

 

They only care about character development when it SUITS them. Remember, like you said, if Naruto develops, that is fine, If Hinata develops, Perfect for them. If any other character develops but Sakura that that is a-okay. If Sakura develops though, oh boy is it unacceptable because, They don't want her getting together with Naruto. And remember, parallels don't mean anything to them uless it proves how Naruto and Hinata suit each other perfectly and were intended from the beginning :zaru: They LOOOOOOOVE deluding themselves saying that Minato parallels Hinata and Naruto Parallels Kushina as you recall. But Jiraiya and Tsunade don't matter. Obito and Rin don't matter unless the parallel is to NH¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Phantom_999, 18 January 2019 - 05:31 PM.

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#50077 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:32 PM

 

They only care about character development when it SUITS them. Remember, like you said, if Naruto develops, that is fine, If Hinata develops, Perfect for them. If any other character develops but Sakura that that is a-okay. If Sakura develops though, oh boy is it unacceptable because, They don't want her getting together with Naruto. And remember, parallels don't mean anything to them uless it proves how Naruto and Hinata suit each other perfectly and were intended from the beginning :zaru: They LOOOOOOOVE deluding themselves saying that Minato parallels Hinata and Naruto Parallels Kushina as you recall. But Jiraiya and Tsunade don't matter. Obito and Rin don't matter unless parallels NH¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Pretty much, but it also once again shows how small-minded and petty they are since they don't care about the characters but only what THEY want, which also reminds us of their selfishness.



#50078 James S Cassidy

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:33 PM

 

You sure aren't wrong about that, James. We also see it sometimes with other shows. And you nailed it so far with Dragon Ball Super and SAO. Some series have handled it a bit better though, even if it isn't easy, and it can be a serious problem. I wasn't just referring to stuff like power-ups, but other stuff too, like what was good about something before it went to ****.

Oh no doubt. Grimgar, Overlord, and a few others definitively handled power scaling much better and even at times where death and rebirth causes power reduction. Like the time Ainz revived a Lizard man and said "you have gone down a level in power, but you should be mostly fine." So, they show that things like death or other things can reduce power fluxes. Even Ainz, as powerful as he is, has a reason for his power and has a reason why he can do so much, but he is not invincible and he can be hurt.

As for the other issues. I know what you were getting. It is just the power scaling one is one that people seem to talk about alot and thus has the most problems with it at the moment. Naruto included.

It's basically what people have dub "The Shonen Problem" where upscaling battles means the author has to give power boosts to make it interesting. it is cheap and can be helpful at times, but keep doing it and it stops being believable or downright looks asspull.
 

 

 

 

They only care about character development when it SUITS them. Remember, like you said, if Naruto develops, that is fine, If Hinata develops, Perfect for them. If any other character develops but Sakura that that is a-okay. If Sakura develops though, oh boy is it unacceptable because, They don't want her getting together with Naruto. And remember, parallels don't mean anything to them uless it proves how Naruto and Hinata suit each other perfectly and were intended from the beginning :zaru: They LOOOOOOOVE deluding themselves saying that Minato parallels Hinata and Naruto Parallels Kushina as you recall. But Jiraiya and Tsunade don't matter. Obito and Rin don't matter unless the parallel is to NH¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Which is why we call them biased. Even if I weren't to compare characters in the same universe, it is still pretty biased when they like another couple with the exact same dynamic and while it is okay for them, it is not okay for NaruSaku.

Ruroni Kenshin is an example too. Kenshin and Kaoru had this very same dynamic and yet how many would say their relationship is awesome? Yet, they follow the same dynamic. Boy meets girl. Girls doesn't respect or value him cause she thinks less of him. Boy has goofball demeanor until stuff gets real, and when she finally sees the true him she respects him.

Same dynamic...yet two different opinions.

I am basically calling them out on their biased nature. It is one thing to like one pairing over another. It is another to use an argument saying it makes it bad for one, but say the same dynamic is what makes another couple special.

Like you said: If Sakura does it, it is bad, but if Hinata does it, it is just the tops.

You either condemn all of it or none of it in my book. Otherwise, you're biased and obviously have a narrow minded viewpoint which is sad cause these people are smarter than they really are.

Just like how I hate Hinata's obsession over Naruto, I hate Sakura and Naruto's obsession over Sasuke. Which, speaking of, how come they don't have issues with the SNS dynamic since even Sasuke was "being mean to poor wittle Nawuto."



 


Edited by James S Cassidy, 18 January 2019 - 05:40 PM.

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#50079 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 06:49 PM

Becaaaaauuuuuuuuuse............. for Sasuke and Naruto, it is a "seme" and "uke" routine? :zaru: :lmao:

And not only do they have double standards with Kenshin and Kaoru, but countless other examples like Naru and Keitaro from Love Hina, any Rumiko Takahashi couple, Louise and Saito from The Familiar of Zero etc. So apparently any tsundere besides Sakura Haruno Suckra Hoeruno is fine and loved. Go Figure.


Edited by Phantom_999, 19 January 2019 - 11:23 AM.

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#50080 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 06:56 PM

There is a limit though and I think Toriyama has outdid himself with power scaling in DBSuper.

They want to say that Goku is now a god, but Krillian with 5 minutes of training can match him in power...somehow. I remember some fans say that since Goku has God ki now, he can't be touched by anyone less than another God, but if that is the case, how do non-Gods like Krillin, Caulifia, Kale, Golden Freeza/minions, and a few others able to inflict damage on him? So that kind of throws that "theory" out the water.

Again, like I said in a post long before....people bash Sword Art Online for how ridiculous the power scaling is in that series with the biggest complaint is Kirito gaining power off screen and being almost unbeatable. My own arguments was "If you watch a let's play, do you watch all 6 hours of an RPG of them just grinding in the same area?"

So to me, if it is bad in one series, it should be bad in all series. You can't just pick and choose that one series can do it without complaints, but another can do it slightly and have massive problems with it. Especially in the example I have given where I can explain why we don't see some things occur.

I can explain how Kirito can be powerful off screen using simple video game logic, but I can't really explain how Krillian gets a power boost off screen.

Resurrection "F" was definitely one of the most egregious examples of power scaling (Frieza himself, just to be made into an actual threat to give reason for using him again besides purely nostalgia) while simultaneously contradicting previous things like Gohan's power dropping somehow being FAR greater after one year from Buu to then, compared to seven years from Cell to Buu.

And I know I'm in a minority but I tend to call people out on such things when it comes to Resident Evil 6. Obviously it's by no means one of the greatest games ever but I constantly see people bashing RE6 but the reasons they give for why it's "bad" are things that could also be applied to RE4, but they continue to call RE4 a "masterpiece".


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