griff142

I think what was dumber was that Naruto, through broken teeth and bruised swollen face, said "Does this make it even now?" No, Naruto, it doesn't "make it equal." Sasuke attacked and potentially killed several people and attempted to kill the leader. You remember the Hyuga treaty? Something similar happens there and the only way the Hyuga felt would make it even was to "sacrifice one of their own" and that wasn't even as bad as what Sasuke did.
Naruto...you are so Sasuke-sexual that your dumbass thinks getting your ass beat to near death makes amends for multiple deaths and an attempted terrorist attack?
That is what pisses me most about Naruto....he is SOOOOOOOO idealistic that he refuses....no...let's go back to something.
Naruto was SAID to be a person who can connect to people with emotions. He was SAID to be this great person who can connect with people cause he also knew what it was like, but this dude does not understand anything even back then. Naruto....SASUKE WAS AN EVIL MAN. He did horrible things in the name of power and revenge.
I'm sorry, but lesser have been given harsher punishments than what Sasuke got. In fact, Sasuke got REWARDED despite it all. Yes, some characters did worse than Sasuke, but they KNEW this made them villains. They owned up to it. Hell Deidara said "I just want to make beautiful art."
Naruto....the self-made hypocrite.
God, the more I read the series the worse it gets for me now...
Naruto, you need to take a page from Vash the Stampede

Look at a scene like this and tell me if Naruto really does "inspire" people to be better. Oh, and Vash's situation is not much different from Naruto's; seen as a monster, just wanted to make friends, tries to prevent killing, has a brother he loves, but also wanted to stop...oh and Knives was actually logical, had a point, and was actually traumatized by the events that unfolded to the point that even Knives had a real redemption in the end.
Knives cared for Vash so much that even when Vash sacrificed himself to save the planet, Knives used his life to bring Vash back to life because Vash actually got him to change his mind.

Yeah I believe the only way Sasuke was to be redeemed was as a sacrifice. To me having Naruto constantly trying to undermine everyone in the series over Sasuke shows me how immature he is. It is like a kid throwing a temper tantrum because he doesn't get what he wants. If things were different Naruto could have grown as a character by realizing that no matter how much you care about somebody you have to take action to prevent them from hurting anyone else. Hell, Sasuke tried to kill Sakura so to me that was the perfect time for Naruto to go berserk. If my friend tried to kill the girl of my dreams, I wouldn't care how close we are. I would seriously hurt you.

I just want to go on a rant here.

You know what argument I am so sick of hearing?

"Because she loved him."

I hate this argument so much because not only is it completely selfish love, but it just so sad that the guy in this relationship is so neglected. Like, did no one pay attention to how the guys felt at all? No, of course no, because according to these people when a girl says she "loves" a guy, he instantly has to stop everything he is doing to marry her, give her kids, and provide for her. Forget dreams, forget what they feel. They need to marry the girl immediately because hey, what do guys know about love right?

Whenever anyone says this I just want to say back
So, you don't think they should be together because they have a mutual understanding, reciprocate each other, or have anything in common with each other; the only reason why they should be together is "because she loves him."

Must be so easy being a female if that is all you have to do to get a guy...meanwhile, the other guy can save your life, put your needs first, actually treat you with respect....and all he is is obviously a friend? I see people say the friendzone does not exist, but this is a clear example of what it is. Especially when the other guy gets told he has to be nice to her and not expect anything out of it, but the girl uses him for things that the boyfriend should be doing for her instead. Oh and if the other guy gets mad or doesn't wat to stuff for her anymore...."OMG, how dare he? He is not a nice guy after all."

Sakura: "I wish I had a guy like you, Naruto."
Naruto: "Well, you are in luck, I am exactly a guy like me..."
Sakura: "I don't mean you...I just mean a guy like you..."
Naruto: "......"
Sakura: "I wish Sasuke was more like you."
Naruto: "WTF?!"

Like, do people not realize how stupid this sounds? I am not even talking about a pretend nice guy who just wants to get laid, but they want a guy to be a certain way and when the one guy (Guy B) is exactly that certain way...they don't want Guy B they want Guy A who is nothing what they want. I don't get it. Call me stupid, but this is truly asinine. If the guys does this they call him a pig. "How dare he expect her to do things. He is a scumbag."

Yet, these same people, if you use the same argument, will dismiss the premise if you reverse it.

"NaruSaku should have been canon because Naruto loved Sakura."
"Sakura doesn't see Naruto in that way"
"Naruto didn't see Hinata that way either."
"Not at first, but people can change."
"No, you mean the guys can change to suit your pairing choice. If you really believe that people can change then why didn't Sakura change and why didn't Hinata change? Truth is, your argument only applies when you want the logic too."

Just...how? How can they be satisfied with this? How do they live in so much denial? They are scary delusional and I really mean they are delusional; it is not just a personal opinion. Sasuke shows no interest in Sakura and has proven time and time again that he wants nothing to do with her even if they are "married" and they want to believe that Sasuke is the overly romantic type character buying Sakura chocolates, lifting her up, romantically non-stop kissing her, and so much more.



They ask me if I am reading the same manga and all I can ask is..are THEY reading the same manga? Where are all these romantic scenes they think exist located? I just can't understand how even the characters themselves say the most obvious things and they STILL say that that is not what it is.

"Sasuke and Sakura have been on multiple dates."
"Really? Cause Sakura says they have only been on one date and even she says it wasn't exactly a date."
"You don't read the manga right."
"Where are you getting your info from? What chapter, page, panel, anything that indicated that what you are saying is true?"
"You need to read the manga"
"OH F-*Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep* you."

"Because she loves him."

Well, he hates her which explains why he doesn't want to be around her.

Sasuke chapter 693: "I see no reason why she should love me and I see no reason why I should love her."

And he still has no reason. He will never have a reason and that explains more on why he has no affection for her than just saying "He is afraid to show love.""
 
It just gets me so angry because after a while it feels like people think it is okay for a female to take advantage of a real nice guy to get in good with the jerk-jock, but if a guy does it it is wrong. It should be wrong both ways.

Sorry, rant over.
 

At the end of the day, people will believe in today's society that when it comes to love the girl's feelings are more important than the guy's feelings. I have to explain to them it takes two to tango and they have to be compatible. Hinata was always an afterthought to Naruto and that is not his fault because he never was interested and only had eyes for Sakura. I can say he was never interested because she confessed and it never acknowledged afterwards. With Sasuke he wasn't even interested in his own shadow let alone Sakura so that possibility should have been shot down all the way back at part 1. So the "she loved him" arguement is really the worst one you can make because at the end of the day both relationships have been neglectful.

Reason...because they were written by Hinata fanboys who only cared about the story when she was in it...which was what...20 pages out of 10,000
 
Edit: My math was way off...

It is cool because it shows how much Hinata was irrelevant to the plot as a whole no matter pages or chapters. You can also include the filler in the anime and she still doesn't come close to being anyone important.

"Because I'm the vessel for the Nine-Tailed Fox, and I have been since I was a baby. I only found out about it myself last year, thanks to Mizuki. He was trickin' me into taking a scroll from old man Third's collection for some nefarious reasons, and he told me that's why everyone hated me... because they saw ME as the FOX, not as ME." His fists tightening, Naruto looked to the ground, feeling anger and some shame as well. "I, I had a lot to deal with when I learned that, even thinking that the only reason Iruka-sensei held me back was because he hated me, because the Fox killed his parents... and that hatred passed onto me. The reason I'm bringing this up is 'cause you told me about Sasuke's Curse Mark, and since you trusted me with that, I want to trust you with something as big as this. Of course, old man Third made it a kinda decree to not tell anyone, but I don't give a damn about that now. It's not like it matters anymore... so that could be why you hate me, 'cause the parents passed that onto their kids through their actions. It's what's made me wanna become Hokage... to be able to show everyone I'm not a monster. But even as hard as I try, I feel like I haven't made a damn bit of progress in that department. Especially because of how I feel like that I can't do anything right... I can't even keep my promises fully..."
Something from my fanfic. It's something I feel is poignant for the early parts where you can tell The Demon Within is different in its canon compared to the anime and manga, and how it sets up what I would love to do for everyone in terms of their growth, like with Naruto here coming out in a big way to tell Sakura his being a Jinchuriki because she trusted him with something so big, plus the fact even when she said what she said about "hating" him that he trusted her no matter what and believed in her no matter what.
 
I feel the one thing I worry about is making the same mistakes made in canon with the fic, so I am working on it at a REAL snail's pace because I fear what people will say and think and such, but also that I worry I will end up making a hot mess, even if I'm not alone on this endeavor.
 
It's just I love Naruto for what it was before kitten got bad in the Shippuden era, and we get to see the hypocrisy shown in the series throughout, but there's still some aspects I feel are legit, even if they didn't get to shine as much, like Naruto, in spite of being a Jinchuriki, being an underdog, even before he could "better" control Kurama's chakra, and how I want that balance of him being that, but also being able to really shine, showing he's more skilled than people give him credit for and all that. So you can see another reason WHY I am hesitant.

Hopefully you can show Naruto actually earn his rewards and fame unlike Kishi. That video Kagomaru shared with us really opened my eyes on the hypocrisy in this series. Makes me rethink Naruto as a whole but I still did enjoy the series before it got kittened up.

I still say honestly I think He just gave up. Between studio and editor pressure for NH and other things I frankly think he got sick and tired of it and just threw his hands in the air and gave them the over the top nonsense they wanted. Thats why theres such a wide disaparity between chapters and arcs and why after so much Development of NS and SK that it all suddenly veers off into lala land

Yeah, everybody as a breaking point and unfortunately the studio forced Kishi to break and not care anymore. Also, if they wanted to they could have affected Kishi's livelihood. Not saying that actually happened but I know companies can make your life hard if you go against them. Company pressure is some the hardest pressures to deal with especially in the anime industry.

The only true change I ever saw was when he was with Karin and the other members of his team, but that was thrown out the window. Sasuke could have changed even if he was a bad guy and rogue ninja in the end.

Yes, Sasuke did have an opportunity to change with Team Taka and enjoy a better life, but that was squandered when he tried to throw Karin's life away in the Land of Iron. To me, with that incident and trying to kill Sakura, he lost the right of redemption.

I agree that Kishi would have to reboot the series in a way. It isn't just the pairings but the series got away from ninjas with strategy and cool techniques to godlike humans who happen to be ninjas. This story needed to be less DBZ and more early part 1 Naruto.

The thing is though in shoujo (which I read a lot of) if the main guy is an kitten at the start, his journey in the story is usually about him becoming a better person because of his relationship with the main girl. There are times where that doesn't happen and the manga is usually not well liked. Example: Hot Gimmick. The main guy was so awful and disliked, the author came back and wrote an alternate ending novel years later. Frankly comparing SS to shoujo couples is an insult to shoujo couples.

Unlike most horrible guys who change overtime in shoujo, they usually have a reason and a developed properly. You can Sasuke never changed deep down because he is still a brooding punk who thinks he knows best. Even if he did change it wasn't developed because it took the last two chapters to magically make him good again

Exactly, and we can't forget Naruto made someone who tried so hard to be cold-hearted like Zabuza cry as well as always tried to be the kind of ninja who believed in heart, something Kakashi kept trying to stifle but he couldn't because Naruto knew how hard it was to feel lonely, and his pain at being ostracized allowed him empathy to others' feelings, but of course Studio Pierrot had to retcon it to justify the ending and The Last.
 
But it also ruined what made Naruto so good; even when he couldn't forgive Nagato for killing Jiraiya and destroying the Leaf Village, he empathized with him when hearing about his past. He could understand the pain of both Sasuke and Gaara, even if it was much easier with Gaara due to them both being Jinchuriki, he was annoyed with Inari but understood how it must have felt, but chose to not give up, just like with Tsunade when he learned about her past from Shizune, or also what he said to Neji after their fight during the Chunin Exams of how the Clone Jutsu was his worst Jutsu and all that jazz. That's the kind of stuff I so miss from Naruto now.
 
It's the kind of stuff I want to keep in for him in my fanfic, where he understands people well because of his empathy due to his pain and loneliness over the years just for being a Jinchuriki, and that also will be what shapes his bonds with Kurama as well as the rest of his friends and even some of his foes. Of course, I'm gonna do some things differently, since this is an AU, but it still is something important to me that the ending of Naruto destroyed.

I feel ya man. The man problem for me is that SP were able to change Naruto's feelings without a care in the world just to fulfill their fantasy. He is the one character that you shouldn't have to do that too. Yes, things change but the core concept of the story was based around Naruto's ideas so, if that changes so does the story. Once it was told to him that is crush was because of his rivalry of Sasuke it made Naruto unlikable and very shallow. The Last and the ending really butchered his character.

Still can't forget the fapfest that was the anime rendition of the Pain Arc. They dedicated an ENTIRE episode to her "Confession" when in the manga it was merely a few slides/panels. Not to mention the animation was top notch and silky smooth whereas Naruto vs. Pain later was goofy, comical and downright horrendous.
 
Also if I remember right, those high quality animation episodes in Naruto cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just for around 22 minutes. But priorities are priorities right? 

Yeah it was ridiculous and that happened all the time in the anime. Another one was the waterfall scene with an naked Hinata. Honestly I thought that episode was very awkward when I first saw it. That is why nobody accepts the filler episodes being canon because alot of times it is forced crap that is just there to past the time. I can accept some filler but Hinata filler is usually the worst of the bunch.

I just wish Kishimoto would tell the truth. There are a lot of interviews but not many relevant answers about what happened

I just wish Kishimoto would tell the truth. There are a lot of interviews but not many relevant answers about what happened

Not going to happen. He was influenced by a studio who had an agenda and he went with their plan and instead of his own. You can bet they will refuse to accept that they screwed up with Naruto and say this was the plan all along to avoid the truth of what happened to the series.

The device was made by sleazy inventor that leads the Konohan's institute of research. Naruto forbid the device use for the exam. So, sleazy inventor to make sure his device was in the exam to promote it gave one to Bolt to use during the exam with the intention of revealing that he won the chunin exam with it, but Naruto found out. In the movie, and the manga during Bolt's fight with Shikamaru's son. In the anime in the final three way battle with Salad and Gaara's son.
 
Only Bolt is using it, and it was only just invented before the exam. Bolt has been using it throughout the exam despite the fact that His father personally banned the device for the exam in front of him. So he has been cheating throughout the exam.

Bolt is nothing but a cheater and can't win on his own. Yeah this is the spawn of both Naruto and Hinata. I hope you like that NH fans. The old Naruto would never do that.

Sakura is just a total loser. Because she chose to be one. She chose to be with Sasuke because of Hinata who was never her friend.
 
Because of Hinata:
 
Sakura chose to be with Sasuke
Neji chose to die
Sasuke chose to be with Sakura and then leave the village for 12 years instead of being around Naruto who is the only living person he cares for
Naruto lost both Sasuke and Sakura. Completely.
Karin chose to become friends with Sakura which is something she would never do, and was not able to be with Sasuke or have a family as a result.
Tsunade's legacy was not only destroyed, but given to a family that was at war with and responsible for many deaths of her ancestors
Kakashi and many others became kittening terrible hypocrites.
Gaara was given a minor role in a crap movie where he acts totally OOC disinterested in regards to Naruto. To hell with that garbage.
Kiba became a useless loser.
Ino became completely pathetic woman who, despite being married to someone else, still longs for someone who never even looked her in the eyes
Sakura's parents are probably completely miserable.
Naruto's parents are probably miserable (in the afterlife)
Same with Jiraiya and other more minor characters like Zabuza, Nagato, even Itachi et al. who died believing in Naruto
Naruto is a scumbag alcoholic with no values
Naruto didn't get to attend his own Hokage ceremony.

Yeah, Kiba reminds me so much of Yamcha when it comes to being useless. Neji dying was the best thing because at least his character didn't have to suffer like everybody else. The 2 main characters of the story easily had the worst changes in the series.

This is the problem with the rush to the chunin exam. Kishimoto had only 2-3 arcs to build up team 7 friendship before it all came crashing down. Afterwards he had to increasingly over-exaggerated their bond to justify why Naruto and Sakura were going to such lengths for him. Naruto in particular once Sakura even gave up on him. So they wen to rival to friends to brothers to brothers that bond is stronger than blood to eternal soul brothers. Problem is this isn't that convincing from the few arcs of interaction they had before Sasuke left the village.

Exactly, maybe after a few more arcs they could have had that friendship Kishi wanted for them but like you said it got rushed through 3 arcs. Honestly through 2 of the arcs Sasuke was already turning down the dark side. Sasuke always thought Sakura was useless so there wasn't even a bond for those two at all, just one sided feelings that Sakura should have been gotten over with and moved on. Naruto was a rival and nothing more.

That's because Naruto was having problems for years that everyone was noticing and complaining about yet were never address that slowly eroded & degraded the story over time; even the fanatics notices some. Sasuke is constantly the focus yet every time he shown kishimoto is just re-explaining why Itachi joined the Akatsuki again, Naruto the main and title character is constantly side-lined to the point even the anime makes fun of it, the heroine only seems to cry/stand on the side-lines/only cares about who she is in love with, for a story about saving a friend the is in danger of falling into darkness through the bonds of friendship yet we barely saw the friendship that is the bases for over 2/3 the story, and so on.
 
That's why I say Salad is Sakura 2.0 instead of Sakura Uchiha. She is more Sakura with her flaws removed, then she is an equal mix of Sakura and Sasuke traits.
 
However, this leads to problems because the flaws of Naruto are not the flaws of Boruto. Yes, it is nice their is focus on the main character but it not like there are any interesting concepts to distract the writer from him. It a sequel to a story where the characters you like and watch for fifteen years failed now spend several more years watching the cycle happen all over again with their less interesting kids. In fact the first scene of both the anime and the manga is what seems to be a repeat of the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke with two new boys; further showing that this is a cycle where nothing will be accomplished. Bolt is the focus but he has no motivations beyond his daddy issues, is a gift genius that doesn't have to try at anything, and generally lacks the charisma that his father had the made his grating aspect of his personality tolerable.The filler of the anime has allowed the new team to bond but will that matter latter on? Salad is Sakura with her flaws removed but it doesn't mean they are going to make her an important part of the story or remain so despite the fact that her end goal would make her Bolt's Boss that would decided everything he does. Mainly because she may suffer the same fate as her mother and be replaced by a female that the anime staff are obsessed with. Cups is really just the new Sai, so like in Naruto let's just ignore him because he will likely stop being important after awhile. Nail is the new Sasuke with a even more generic traumatic backstory to justify why he will kill everyone. Isn't this new generation interesting.

I never saw the friendship between Naruto and Sasuke. The only thing I saw was two rivals trying to one up each other. Yeah, sometimes you can develop a friendship from that but to me, Sasuke only tolerated with Naruto and most of the time was trying to kill Naruto. That is not friendship and Kishi did a bad job of showing it especially later on.