Bail o' Lies

 

Premature release because of your connections doesn't sound like being held responsible. Yes, Sasuke helped them, but it was because the enemy was in the way to his own likely totalitarian plans (after all what was his plan to make everyone hate him so much that they'd ignore all other conflicts. They want to reward what amounted to the Stalin version of the alliance. Fine, but the series shouldn't pretend that it something other than what it is. He didn't help them because it was the right thing to do.

 

Probably the worst part of the series is how poorly concepts like accountability were handled. This kind of issue along with general ideas about justice can often be at odds with redemption. Naruto gets past the natural conflict largely by ignoring its existence.

Kishimoto really shot himself in the foot in order to keep Sasuke as an antagonist for the final battle.

Not counting the crimes against his home country Sasuke has: assaulted and kidnapped a high ranking member of a foreign countries military, attacked a summit of world leaders, join a terrorist organization bent on taking over the world... actually ending the world by turning everyone into plant food, and tried to taking over the world himself (granted Team 7 clearly covered that one up.)

It says something that Sakura who "never doubted Sasuke for a second because of her deep unending unquestioning love for him." Thought it was absolutely absurd along with everyone else (except hinata, because she wasn't involved in the classmates reunion during the war) that he would try to become hokage after all he had done.

As for Sasuke's side of things, "why should he remain loyal or feel the need to atone to a village that committed democide on his clan?"

Here the thing; even arranged marriages take longer time then a few months. First, normally the family wants an alliance of sorts, and or match makers set them up. Then after that they then meet frequently enough to make sure the relationship would works, the families testing the waters, and if it good they start planning the wedding. Hell, scheduling, planning, and arranging a marriage sometimes takes more then 6 months, which means that probably decided to get married very shortly after they started dating. How quickly were Naruto and Hinata married? Their friends hadn't even picked out their wedding gifts till the day (or was it week) before.

That is true I mean I am not married but I know that things like getting married does take time, but you need to remember that to the NH fans say that their love is so true that this was not needed for them to spend all this time together or some other BS that the NH fans like to come up with.

 

Again there are thing you and your wife know about each other, what does Hinata or Naruto know about each other nothing at all their fears their likes and so on.

 

My nan and grandad were married for a long time and when they had a fight like all couples do he went out to his garden for them both too cool down and it worked.

 

NH and SS married lives are doomed to fail NH rushed into it same with SS I bet, then again I bet NH fans will say they did live together, you have to also remember that pro-enders all live in their own little bubble world they can't face real life.

SS it comes off as a shotgun wedding. Remember even with all the changes they made to the gaiden in the anime. Naruto still had doubts because of the DNA test. It is tradition for the mother in japan to keep the umbilical cord not the nurse, that's why that test was so damming. But since the story is Sakura gave birth to Salad while she and Karin were looking for Sasuke. So it likely after Sasuke found out he had a child, he allowed Sakura to take on his clan's name so his daughter would also have his clan's name. If there was a marriage, it was a quick one. As for how many time they had sex? It only takes one time. So Sakura Haruno left the village after the nH wedding looking for Sasuke, then came back a year or two later as Sakura Uchiha with a daughter in-tow, and no one questioned it. While Sasuke continued his wandering showing no interest in his family even when he came back to the village to report to Naruto. 

Such a cowardly excuse like that is why I'm unable to accept NH. The Last wrecked Naruto's character and did a great job turning him into an a-hole.

 

Not only did it make him out to be clueless and disconnected with his own feelings—when in fact he knew what he wanted right from the start—, he also saw Sakura as a trophy to be won because of his rivalry with Sasuke (even though Sasuke was never romantically interested in her to begin with).

 

How they managed to twist Naruto's genuine interest in Sakura into something so shallow and cheap still baffles me, especially since it was shown time and time again that had he'd seriously loved and wanted her from the get-go.

They didn't want Hinata to be seen as Naruto's "silver medal." Since chapter three of this 700 chapter manga we have known Naruto had some level of feelings for Sakura. Which meant that hinata as far as everyone knew; even if they got together was Naruto's "second choice." They didn't want that, and they didn't want the audience to think that. So the last's goal was to make sure hinata wasn't seen as the second choice. In order to do that they made her princess of the hyuga clan, the goddess of the moon, as strong as the six path sage, heir to six path sage's brother, constantly tried to make her look as pretty as possible, change their backstory, got Sakura to help push them together, the illusion, the contest between the scarves of motherly love versus true love, and so on.

The problem is that by doing so especially that speech Sakura gave to dismiss that Naruto ever had genuine feeling for her on any level. But by saying that his feeling for Sakura were a lie then that meant Naruto was lying about one of the first thing we learned about him for fifteen years. If he was lying about that; what else was he lying about? By doing what they did in the last they destroyed one of the most important parts about a story; the likability of the main character.

The annoyance line parallels with his much earlier departure. Matching this with his off remarks, you can infer he is not being honest. 

Yes, it does but it does not mean he is not being honest in this situation. It is to show the differences between those two, actually three situation where he calls her annoying. In the first one that happened in chapter three he did it because he was enraged and offended by her comments on having children being raised without no parents, which may have been directed to Naruto could also be said towards him. The second one he is friendlier to her because he is recalling the earlier scene, which he still considers her annoying, and ends with a thank you for all the good times everyone had in team 7. But this scene is also the end of SS bond because Sakura was not able to convince him to do anything, and in Japanese culture saying thank you to a confession means the same as saying no. That is why in the third scene he called instead of just annoying instead an annoyance, and again knocks her out with a graphic illusion and then goes of on how her feeling for him are ridiculous.

The mangaka is ill no new chapters this week.

I stumbled on some discussion of Naruto on other forum, and there was question "Did Sasuke loved Sakura from beginning?", and my reaction was: 

Manga is finished, and to future generations it will be as granted how it ended, no suspense or anything like that. Personaly I was shocked that people even qeustions something like that. For majority of people it was obvious that there was nothing betwen those 2 characters. But now, after ending, new readers starts to ask such questions. My question is, what will be a % of new readers that will read manga from a same angle as did we fellow members of this site and old majority that disliked ending?

Remember not even ten chapters before the ending; he knocked her out with an illusion where he both called her an annoyance, and stab her in the chest with a chidori. Then he went on a quick speech about how he didn't even understand what she likes about him, he doesn't care about her, and he thinks she lives in a dream world if she thinks he has feeling for him. Then he lost his arm, had a chapter worth of thoughts of why Naruto is so important to him, and then the next chapter vaguely apologized to Sakura. That's apparently how he "fell in love with her" in the manga.

It happened at least twice.

Hey, its been a long while

I'm back (for a very limited period though).

 

Well, I'm back because of my bewilderment of how retarded most Naruto fans are. I was on random a youtube video about Konoha 13 power ranking yet I see many comments stating how "Hinata is stronger than Neji, Sakura, Shikamaru etc", "wtf, How is Sakura so high, Hinata can destroy her" etc, etc.

 

I'm sorry, did I miss something ? Did Hinata get some big epic fight in Boruto or something ? (I still haven't seen any Boruto material)

Fandom gives her so much undeserved hype for doing nothing. They say stuff like "Hinata has mastered Gentle Fist". And? Is that supposed to be impressive? Neji mastered Gentle fist when he was a genin (before the chunnin exams). They constantly say "muh Hamura chakra". I've only watched "Naruto the Last" once and what I remember about Hinata is her; getting captured 3 times in one movie, failing to destroy the tenseigan thing and needing Naruto's help and......that's it. She showed 0 feats with "Hamura chakra" (oh. I forgot the parts where she even forgot that she was a ninja at parts of the film lol.

 

Whatever fan you are, you have to be completely delusional to believe that Hinata is stronger than Sakura. Hinata is honestly the weakest in Team 8 ( and has been from the start). Shino is very intelligent with his tricks and skills while Kiba has his own powerhouse techniques and even one during the Konoha Novel where he destroyed a meteorite (ommited from the anime by Studio pierrot though). Hinata nearly tripped while mastering 8 Trigrams 64 plams, (a technique Neji could do easily in the chunnin exams) and her Twin lion fists is a still featless technique because she keeps getting BTFO before actually using it.

 

I wonder why Narutards feel compelled to glorify Hinata's everything in this franchise when she was barely more relevant than Kiba throughout the story. 

 

 

NejiHina is pretty much incest. They are 1st cousins, they're almost brother and sister so I think this ship is very wierd tbh.

 

imo, KibaHina had potential because (unlike NaruHina), they knew each other well, actually interacted, Kiba acknowledged Hinata's feelings. Their relationship could've easily become romantic (without the need of a Genjutsu dream sequence lol). All, that would've made this couple work is if Hinata had just realised that she had a "similar" Naruto in her own team that already understands her.

Remember the last where she got that purple chakra. In their mind she is probably as powerful as the sages now if not Kaguya, because in their minds she now a demigod instead of a simple one time boost.

The reason they had to glorify her is that she in their minds is the "perfect women" Kind (at least to them), beautiful (her big breast), rich (her family is the most powerful in the village), and utterly devoted to them. But to make sure they don't come of as complete pigs they like her having incredible power to she isn't just some weak girl...or they like her having such power because it shows how manly they must be to have made her submit to them.

You see it as incest in most of the world including Japan; it is not.

Actually, what's ironic is that they did try to pull Boruto-level crap on Rurouni Kenshin with the Reflections OVA.  Y'know, making Kenshin a negligent husband and absentee dad by having him to continue his quest for penitence, outright disregarding all of his character development in the manga and even altering dialogue/scenes that took place in the series. You end up with Kenji growing up and hating his dad (even spitting on his ideals and by proxy, his mother's ideals regarding kenjutsu), and being a general brat. Though, at least he has a better reason than Boruto since he has to take care of his sick mother while his father was going around the country seeking redemption(even though he already found it in the manga).  Unlike Masashi, Nobuhiro came forward in a interview to denounce the OVA's canonicity, stating it went directly against his intentions for Kenshin come to terms with his past and live a happy life.  In the 2006 Comic Con he attended where he was questioned about Reflections again, he bluntly stated that he hated the OVA.

 

I'm grateful for mangakas like Watsuki, Oda and Toriyama who have no issues calling out anyone that tries to corrupt their creations.  Kishimoto desperately needs a spine like theirs.

Actually, I think it because they don't want Kishimoto to do that they make him stay on as editor instead of letting him go off and do that sci fi manga. Think about it. Ever since the ending what's been holding up the series is that Kishimoto is supporting them. What's holding this franchise up now a days isn't the story (since they abandon it to make nH happen), it's respecting kishimoto's "authorial/writer's intent." If he came out and started unloading on the ending and/or Boruto, it would all but kill the franchise. So to prevent him for even considering doing that they, gave him the editor job. So he have to stay and keep supporting the franchise.

Piccolo's sacrifice was more important for character development. It was to show that the Demon King had changed because of Gohan, and would be an ally to the main cast permanently now instead of on a whim. Same as Cell killing Trunks, and Vegeta's sacrifice against Majin Buu was for Vegeta.

Neji's sacrifice was for two reasons one to end NejixHinata, and to start pushing nH.

 

Pretty much my thoughts.

 

I just don't understand the disconnect. When it's NaruSaku, it's not romantic and it's incest to even dare to think so.

 

When it's Burrito and Salad, it is most certainly romantic and in no way platonic or sibling like and we NaruSaku fans should therefore ship it because it's like NaruSaku.

 

You can't have it both ways. No matter how much they copy from NaruSaku and paste onto the Taco Bell kids, they will never be NaruSaku.

They wanted their paring nH/SS to happened; so NS could never happened because it was a threat to their pairings. But BS is really confirming the bond between nH & SS as well as sort of a victory lap for them. So it being similar to NS is fine or a good things. Since either its further confirming nH & SS as well as the bond, giving NS what they wanted without threatening the goddess chances, or when Boruto flops they can put the blame on NS.

If the Disney Princesses met Hinata, what would they say to her?

Well seeing that all of them have that true love boyfriend bit they would be sympathetic to her having feeling for a boy, then they would be bewildered by the fact that she barely interacted with him for over fifteen years, and then as the learn more and more about the situation (Naruto's childhood, Sakura, Sasuke, and so on) would leave them completely flummox.

I get what your saying. But I'm thinking more along the lines of Kishimoto was 20 when he started, unmarried, young and didn't care about families, even as he wrote about them. There's a big difference between him then and now — 40s with kids and taking the long view of life. Couple that with some social mores and the fact that Hinata is very much represents a popular Japanese ideal that is scattered all over anime and manga, then I can see why Kishimoto may have just shrugged and said 'eh, either one.' I don't think he ever cared about shipping, Hinata seemed just as good as Sakura (and didn't make waves as much as Sakura did), and an NH ending is 'going out with a surprise' that then launched the new era with the kids. I think that the part where he based Sakura off his wife was nice and probably true. But in the end, NH was better for the extending of the series and more well-received by those around him and in Japan. 

 

I just think that — with some distance from the ending — there are more reasons for him to turn to NH than I originally realized. 

I don't disagree that Kishimoto is a different man after 15 years. For example, in part one we had things like infants used to store demons, mutations, crushing people with sand, people using their spines as whips, and so on. While in part two the most frequent new power was variations of magnetic powers by the end.

But like I said it is unlikely he did it for that birth rate problem, and even in his interviews where he was suppose to talk up and go on about how great Hinata was all he could really say was either he didn't get why she was so popular or people like her because she supported Naruto since the being (or her breast). But him stating he didn't understand Hinata's appeal was by far the more frequent response when asked. His shrug was more "well that's what the fans want", then "I can see why the fans would like her." 

As for the people around him the people that supported nH considered it brilliant, while the people that thought NS was going to happen were at least very surprised, but the most important reaction was always going to be from the fans since they're justification for the switch; because they believe that is what the fans wanted. At the very least the reaction they got was not what they were hoping.

You know, for a person who claims to been taught the ins and outs of industry by a literary genius, She is painfully unaware how the industry actually works.