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Something Sakura should have asked herself.


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#101 Azor Ahai

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 10:11 PM

I always feel like a character should start at one point and end up in a completely different point from where it starts.

 

Sakura and Hinata never changed from how they were portrayed in the beginning. Hardly anyone changed, the only person that did change was Naruto, and for the worst.

 

This could either be two things. Either Kishimoto whole idea was to show people that change was bad, or he is a terrible writer. I think giving the man the benefit of a doubt and looking at the possibility that Kishimoto may just hate change.

 

Then again, he created a villain to which he himself had no idea on how to get rid off, then made another villain to get rid of the previous villain only to summon another villain that was easily defeated.


Edited by Azor Ahai, 23 December 2017 - 10:11 PM.

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#102 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 01:54 AM

"you know Konoha is set in a place thats pretty hot...and we never once showed it snowing there even though we had 600 or so chapters to go off of. Also, its never mentioned that Kushina made her unborn son a scarf. LET MAKE A MOVIE THAT TOSSES THOSE FACTS INTO THE TRASH HEHEHE. " Could that be because....it doesn't snow in Konoha?! and that Kushina felt no need to make a scarf for her baby in a place that doesn't get cold enough for one? :zaru: they could have avoided that pitfall by having her make Naruto something ACTUALLY kittening useful. 

Like a pair of oven mits, or a ramen-cozy to keep his instant noodles warm longer, or CHOCOLATE. Anything FFS. 

Dudette, the more I think about the more questions that arise and these are just minor things.

What next, the Land of the Hidden Mist is all of a sudden going to go through a heatwave and become a dessert?


Edited by James S Cassidy, 24 December 2017 - 01:54 AM.

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#103 RulesofNature

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 02:48 AM

And then call her a "terrible woman" if she did get over him. *rolls eyes*
 

 

 

This was something in a Buzzfeed quiz that I saw someone take and this was one of the questions.
 

So, does this mean that everyone who supports NH and SS are misogynist? Hmmmm.

(By the way, I don't take buzzfeed seriously. This was just something I noticed.)
 

 

I think it's that some of them have this really unhealthy view of what being in a relationship should be rather than them hating women. It's less about the couple being partners through all the ups and downs, it's more about fawning over each other like two lovesick 12 year olds. One thing I keep seeing is that the woman should be caring towards the man rather than having a tsundere personality, and of course there's people arguing Hinata is more beautiful despite Kishi originally designing her to be rather plain-looking. Anyway, it seems like they want this character to be devoted to her man and that's pretty much Hinata. They don't want someone who can challenge him when he does wrong, they want someone who enables his behavior. The way these people treat the characters, all it does is objectify them as Naruto and Hinata become nothing more than prizes for the other one to win because these fans feel they're entitled to do so.

 

It's not that they want a wife for Naruto, it's more like they want... Cartman's mom. No wait, she can actually punish Eric at times.


Edited by RulesofNature, 24 December 2017 - 02:49 AM.

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#104 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 03:44 AM

 

I think it's that some of them have this really unhealthy view of what being in a relationship should be rather than them hating women. It's less about the couple being partners through all the ups and downs, it's more about fawning over each other like two lovesick 12 year olds. One thing I keep seeing is that the woman should be caring towards the man rather than having a tsundere personality, and of course there's people arguing Hinata is more beautiful despite Kishi originally designing her to be rather plain-looking. Anyway, it seems like they want this character to be devoted to her man and that's pretty much Hinata. They don't want someone who can challenge him when he does wrong, they want someone who enables his behavior. The way these people treat the characters, all it does is objectify them as Naruto and Hinata become nothing more than prizes for the other one to win because these fans feel they're entitled to do so.

 

It's not that they want a wife for Naruto, it's more like they want... Cartman's mom. No wait, she can actually punish Eric at times.

Well, hating on woman is not really what I am talking about, but more like they want to see woman as equal as men saying that they are no better and that women are not defined by their relationship status and that men need to treat women with respect.

Naruto and Hinata and Sasuke and Sakura are the two pairings that go against the this idea that they have and yet they support it?

"Men need to treat women with respect"
Okay, from Naruto pratically ignoring Hinata and never once paying attention to her to Sasuke downright calling her names and saying she is useless I'd say they both fit under this criteria of men NOT treating women with respect.

"Women are not defined by their love life"
Yet Sakura and Hinata are pratically ONLY remembered for their love life.

"Women should not be slaves to men"
Yet Sakura and Hinata are slaves to men. They pratically woreship the ground Sasuke and Naruto walk on without reason.

Why do they support everything Sasuke does to Sakura over the course of the series when he is absolutly downright the worst man to ever exist? It makes no sense. They call this love? If this kind of relationship existed in real life, real women would be saying something against it, not in support of it. This is my beef with Ino not saying anything...like, really? I have never seen girls be that supportive of a character like Sasuke.

I mean, seriously, there are people that complain about how women are too sexually objectified in video games, comic books, and even movies no matter how strong they are, no matter how awesome they are, and what not because the girl has big breasts and wears a slightly revealing outfit. So why does Hinata Hyuga who is sexually objectified, who is a slave to a man basically, who does revovle her whole life around one topic, and depicted as being stupid to everything else, but "Naruto-kun" gets this pass like she is the "perfect image" of femininity?

It's not the fact that "hating on women," but rather "If Hinata does it, it is okay, but if any other female does it...they are sexist towards women."

Look at this:
2z5nnro.jpg

Even this HInata gets a pass. This double standard is just absolutly insane. I mentioned this in other posts, but the fact that Hinata just gets all this glory and praise no matter what she does while other female characters that are just downright flamed for it.

I really wish this character was never made. She is downright the anti-thesis to any and all female anime characters and for some reason people love her for it.
Sakura is bad because she obsesses over Sasuke, but when Hinata obsesses over Naruto it is okay because it is true love.
Sakura is bad because she hits Naruto even if in a comedic way, but when RtN Hinata threatens or hurts Naruto in a serious tone it is okay because she is seen as a strong independant woman.

It drives me up the wall.....why is Hinata so popular? I can't get my head around it. No other character is as praised as Hinata is even though there are some characters just like her.

Look at a characer like Shinobu from Love Hina and I don't see anyone praising her like they do Hinata even though Hinata is pratically cut from the same cloth.

 


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#105 RulesofNature

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 04:54 AM

Honestly, I can see how Hinata has slipped through the cracks and not become a target in the media.

 

Let's be real here, there is a certain image imprinted into our cultural mindset of those who watch anime. There's the male fans living in their parent's basement with their love pillow waifu, as well as the female fans who spend their time writing erotic fiction about Boy-kun A passionately making tender love to Boy-Kun B. On top of this, the representation of women has always been subject to criticism especially with the sexualization of underage girls. There's already a definite perception of cringe, and the Naruto fandom has always been a keen contributor to that.

 

You could say that these issues are more easily hid in Naruto due to it's kid appeal nature in a medium most people have already have written off, especially when there's more prominent anime that are easier to identify as "problematic" like Kill La Kill or Cross Ange. In contrast, Naruto is almost background noise in this discussion. It's prominent, sure, but it's also an anime no one really paid attention to in it's final years until it ended. And what's more, Hinata is not a prominent or heavily advertised character. She's not a member of Team 7, nor is she Akatsuki. Someone would have to get into Naruto in order to discover her, like a rabbit turd in a bowl of raisins. If Hinata was more prominent, I assure you there would have been far more outcry over Kishimoto's writing being seen as sexist.

 

And when it came to Hinata, she appealed to her fanbase for certain reasons. Why I can't say. They became fans of this character which I always feel leads to a heavy bias, selectively seeing what they want to see and ignoring what they don't. It's also the same principle that allows Naruto's current behaviors to fall outside of most people's attention. Remember, this is a fanbase that other parts of the anime fandom doesn't want much to do with writing the show off as generic shonen crap (aka background noise). The story can ultimately be about unhealthy relationships and broken morals as Kishi pulled turds out of his butt, but a significant part of the fanbase isn't going to care because they're only seeing the good while not thinking it through.

 

At this point, I feel like I'm discussing a Twilight ripoff. Hell, they would probably start arguing Naruto isn't meant to be a critical darling and is just supposed to be an enjoyable action series. After all, they defend NaruHina's lack of development with Naruto isn't supposed to be about romance while gushing about The Last because it's about NaruHina's romance. And like arguing Twilight, my brain is starting to hurt.


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#106 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 06:47 AM

Well, hating on woman is not really what I am talking about, but more like they want to see woman as equal as men saying that they are no better and that women are not defined by their relationship status and that men need to treat women with respect.

Naruto and Hinata and Sasuke and Sakura are the two pairings that go against the this idea that they have and yet they support it?

"Men need to treat women with respect"
Okay, from Naruto pratically ignoring Hinata and never once paying attention to her to Sasuke downright calling her names and saying she is useless I'd say they both fit under this criteria of men NOT treating women with respect.

"Women are not defined by their love life"
Yet Sakura and Hinata are pratically ONLY remembered for their love life.

"Women should not be slaves to men"
Yet Sakura and Hinata are slaves to men. They pratically woreship the ground Sasuke and Naruto walk on without reason.

Why do they support everything Sasuke does to Sakura over the course of the series when he is absolutly downright the worst man to ever exist? It makes no sense. They call this love? If this kind of relationship existed in real life, real women would be saying something against it, not in support of it. This is my beef with Ino not saying anything...like, really? I have never seen girls be that supportive of a character like Sasuke.

I mean, seriously, there are people that complain about how women are too sexually objectified in video games, comic books, and even movies no matter how strong they are, no matter how awesome they are, and what not because the girl has big breasts and wears a slightly revealing outfit. So why does Hinata Hyuga who is sexually objectified, who is a slave to a man basically, who does revovle her whole life around one topic, and depicted as being stupid to everything else, but "Naruto-kun" gets this pass like she is the "perfect image" of femininity?

It's not the fact that "hating on women," but rather "If Hinata does it, it is okay, but if any other female does it...they are sexist towards women."

Look at this:
2z5nnro.jpg

Even this HInata gets a pass. This double standard is just absolutly insane. I mentioned this in other posts, but the fact that Hinata just gets all this glory and praise no matter what she does while other female characters that are just downright flamed for it.

I really wish this character was never made. She is downright the anti-thesis to any and all female anime characters and for some reason people love her for it.
Sakura is bad because she obsesses over Sasuke, but when Hinata obsesses over Naruto it is okay because it is true love.
Sakura is bad because she hits Naruto even if in a comedic way, but when RtN Hinata threatens or hurts Naruto in a serious tone it is okay because she is seen as a strong independant woman.

It drives me up the wall.....why is Hinata so popular? I can't get my head around it. No other character is as praised as Hinata is even though there are some characters just like her.

Look at a characer like Shinobu from Love Hina and I don't see anyone praising her like they do Hinata even though Hinata is pratically cut from the same cloth.

 

Or remember the flashback to Kurama's attack on Konoha and showing Kurenai's father basically telling her that when she's older, she should basically stay in the kitchen and be a baby maker while making sure to keep her man pleased?


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#107 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 06:48 AM

Or remember the flashback to Kurama's attack on Konoha and showing Kurenai's father basically telling her that when she's older, she should basically stay in the kitchen and be a baby maker while making sure to keep her man pleased?

 

Yeah, which is ****** beyond belief if you ask me, and makes me realize where the series was gonna go... XP



#108 RulesofNature

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 07:11 AM

 

Yeah, which is ****** beyond belief if you ask me, and makes me realize where the series was gonna go... XP

 

Ensuring the continuation of one's bloodline is one of those traditional Japanese values I keep talking about. It's kinda funny how people kept trying to write Kurenai as this feminist ninja icon until then that happened.


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#109 DrK

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 04:30 PM

 

Ensuring the continuation of one's bloodline is one of those traditional Japanese values I keep talking about. It's kinda funny how people kept trying to write Kurenai as this feminist ninja icon until then that happened.

She got a short stick but not as short as Sakura. Carrying a torch for the dead Asuma > Carrying a torch for a living Sasuke who may as well be dead for how often he is there

 

She's a genjutsu user who isn't an Uchiha so she's a useless ninja. The only fight she got was against Itachi who makes everyone else look like a child as he beats them while standing still, so it's hard to gauge how strong she even was.

 

Naruto is an exercise on how to waste the potential of characters.



#110 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 06:14 PM

At this point, I feel like I'm discussing a Twilight ripoff. Hell, they would probably start arguing Naruto isn't meant to be a critical darling and is just supposed to be an enjoyable action series. After all, they defend NaruHina's lack of development with Naruto isn't supposed to be about romance while gushing about The Last because it's about NaruHina's romance. And like arguing Twilight, my brain is starting to hurt.

At this point, myself, I just feel that these people who accept Hinata doing whatever she wants and considering it okay don't have a right to talk about any other female in any other series anymore. To me, they forgo that right and it means I never take their opinions seriously. You basically let a walking contradicting stereotype become your mascot to "feminine superiority" because "She got to be with the Hokage, a man she pined for and woreshipped like a god." It's just....

You know, people have their different opinions and I respect that, but one thing I cannot stand is hypocrites. Now yes we all can be hypocritical at times and most of the time it is a rare occurence, but when they are hypocrites all the time and then deny the hypocrisy behind just downright hypocritical logic is a massive pet peeve to me. I am a hypocrite at times, but if I am made aware of said hypocrisy I don't deny it or make excuses like "Well, this is a different situation." I hate when people did that to me growing up. "My problems are more important than yours because I said so and because they are different" even if the problem I have is the same as theirs.

It's like complaining that it is sexist to stereotype a woman because of her sex, but then say that all men are pigs and rapist because...they are men.


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#111 RulesofNature

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

At this point, myself, I just feel that these people who accept Hinata doing whatever she wants and considering it okay don't have a right to talk about any other female in any other series anymore. To me, they forgo that right and it means I never take their opinions seriously. You basically let a walking contradicting stereotype become your mascot to "feminine superiority" because "She got to be with the Hokage, a man she pined for and woreshipped like a god." It's just....

You know, people have their different opinions and I respect that, but one thing I cannot stand is hypocrites. Now yes we all can be hypocritical at times and most of the time it is a rare occurence, but when they are hypocrites all the time and then deny the hypocrisy behind just downright hypocritical logic is a massive pet peeve to me. I am a hypocrite at times, but if I am made aware of said hypocrisy I don't deny it or make excuses like "Well, this is a different situation." I hate when people did that to me growing up. "My problems are more important than yours because I said so and because they are different" even if the problem I have is the same as theirs.

It's like complaining that it is sexist to stereotype a woman because of her sex, but then say that all men are pigs and rapist because...they are men.

 

I get you man. As someone who has put up with enough kitten dealing with Gundam fans, I know.

 

The one thing that really gets me though is some of the comments I've seen concerning Boruto and Sarada. They go on about how Sarada has to drop the tsundere attitude and become more caring towards Boruto... Yeah. Never mind Boruto is a spoiled brat that the internet collectively craps on, Sarada has to change her personality and adopt a more Hinata-like one in order to be with him. But then again, Naruto had to adopt the persona of a scumbag to be with Hinata so whatever.

 

I can only imagine how triggered these folks would be at ArnoldxHelga, especially the fact that getting with Footballhead didn't erase her personality. She still has her issues, just now she has someone to help her.


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#112 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:06 AM

 

I get you man. As someone who has put up with enough kitten dealing with Gundam fans, I know.

 

The one thing that really gets me though is some of the comments I've seen concerning Boruto and Sarada. They go on about how Sarada has to drop the tsundere attitude and become more caring towards Boruto... Yeah. Never mind Boruto is a spoiled brat that the internet collectively craps on, Sarada has to change her personality and adopt a more Hinata-like one in order to be with him. But then again, Naruto had to adopt the persona of a scumbag to be with Hinata so whatever.

 

I can only imagine how triggered these folks would be at ArnoldxHelga, especially the fact that getting with Footballhead didn't erase her personality. She still has her issues, just now she has someone to help her.

Oh god, the Gundam fandom...so many of them who didn't even know what "Gundam" was until Gundam Wing first aired on Toonami (and think it was the first Gundam series ever) to as late as Mobile Suit Gundam 00. Similar to Naruto, a ton of them seem to be completely about pairings more than anything else, and only care about pairings they want to happen regardless of how much development they or others may or may not have. All too often I would ask people to point out where ones like Heero and Relena in Gundam Wing, or Kira and Lacus in SEED / SEED Destiny, and such actually demonstrate romantic feelings towards each other and such, but they can never provide any concrete evidence, and whenever I ask why they like various pairings, a vast majority of the time, all I get is, "They look so cute together!"


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#113 rocci

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Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:10 AM

@rule of nature
Most ss fan is girl and most naruto fan are girl. So I think making ss canon despite the awfulness is not far fetch since it happen in order to please fangirl.

I always feel that Twillight is a fanfiction of ss. Sasuke curse mark lv2 make him look like a vampire while naruto 1 tail Kyubi make him a werewolf. And top of that sakura is an ordinary girl.

Perhaps this is one of the reason on why bad boy character is truly popular in entertainment target on girl.




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