22 replies to this topic

[Therece]

I have noticed many NaruSaku fans hate Sasuke  and wanted his death for many reasons

1 - Sometimes he is more important than the protagonist and steal the spotlight from Naruto
2 - He is the main obstacle for NaruSaku
3 - He is Naruto's Rival
4 - Naruto lost to him many times and wasn't able to win against him in the final battle.
4 - Naruto also lost in the "love" against Sasuke.
5 - He stole Sakura from Naruto although he never did anything to her while Naruto did everything for Her.


But The main reason:
His crimes and the fact he received a free pass and still was able to impregnate sakura and receive a family


But many narusaku fans  gave a free pass to Obito. Obito didn't tried to kill Rin
But obito's crimes are far worse than Sasuke.

I find this a little hypocritical..

Sasuke's Crimes:

Joined in Akatsuki and tried to capture Hachibi
Killed 5 or 8 unimportant samurais
fought against the Gokage
Tried to kill Sakura, Kakashi and Naruto.

Obito's crimes:

Attacked a mother giving birth,trying to kill a newborn baby,rip out a bijju from a helpless weakened mother's body,not to mention that mother was his own sensei's wife.
Obito Attempts to kill a baby by blowing it up with an explosive tag
Obito unleashed Fox on village making him directly responsible for everyone that died then, helped to kill his own clan

Attempted to destroy all the world, directly responsible for starting a war against the shinobi world making him responsible for 10,000 deaths, helped form and corrupted Akatsuki, manipulated Akatsuki and Nagato to capture all the jinchuurikis. Revived the Juubi  and Killed more  thousands people when became Juubi's Jinchuuriki.


Obito wasn't punished too. Obito only died as punishment.
Well this isn't a punishment. Since in afterlife he was rewarded with Rin and Obito still gets to spend the rest of his afterlife with her.

Obito deserved to burn in hell  to pay his sins not be rewarded  with Rin.
Naruto still pardoned Obito's crimes and defended the criminal after his death with the  stupidest lines I have ever read in this manga, if not the stupidest ever:
"he was the coolest guy"  just because Obito was similar to him and had the same Hokage dream.

 

So did you thinks most of the Narusakus fans  gave a free pass to Obito because he is the main Naruto "parallel" while Rin is Sakura "parallel"  and ObiRin helped NaruSaku?
Or NaruSaku fans hates Obito too?

Not just Obito, But also Gaara fits as well   with his crimes but he isn't a NaruSaku parallel    or the problem is just Sasuke  because  NaruSaku ?

 

 

Edited by Therece, 09 October 2016 - 01:00 AM.

[AHK]

No, I don't think that NS fans give Obito a pass because of ObiRin. I don't even know any NS fans that give Obito a free pass in general. Also, that list you made about why NS fans don't like Sasuke, you forgot the bullet stating that he's a kitten character. Just a thought.

Anyway, I loved Obito and hated Sasuke. I thought Obito was a well developed, deep character and made a great villain. I thought Sasuke was a shallow character with terrible development, stupid reasoning, and ridiculous power ups that he had no business getting. In terms of giving them a free pass, I don't. There is however an important distinction between the two. Obito, while his crimes were many and too great to allow him to fully redeem himself, actually tried to be redeemed. He fought back, tried to correct his mistakes, and eventually died trying to be the person he once was. Sasuke just got handed a free pass on a silver platter, doing nothing to earn it.

With that said, your post implies that NS fans are biased against Sasuke, while ironically you seem to be biased towards him, as given how you listed his crimes. You completely detailed Obito's crimes, but glanced over Sasuke's. Sasuke's should look more like:

1.) Joining a terrorist group and launching an act of terrorism against a foreign nation, in which he killed numerous nationals.
2.) attempted to capture and kidnap the brother of said nations leader
3.) involved in another terrorist attack in which he killed multiple samurai (honestly, your attempt to mollify Sasuke killing the samurai is laughable. You call them unimportant, yet you then talk about the thousands Obito killed as if they weren't as unimportant story wise as the people Sasuke murdered. A life is a life.) and then attacking the leaders of all five nations, creating another international incident.
4.) was complicit in the resurrection of the Juubi, as he managed to capture one of Bee's tails, thereby making him directly responsible for all the people the Juubi killed.
5.) was complicit in an attempt to forcibly take over the world in the form of IT.
6.) partially responsible for the deaths of the people Obito as Juubi, as he helped resurrect the Juubi.
7.) attempted to take over the world, establish himself as a dictator, kill all the political leaders, and slaughter anyone who went against him.
8.) attempted murder of Naruto and Sakura multiple times

Thats a much more accurate list than the one you provided. Sasuke isn't any better than Obito, and is much worse than Gaara ever was. I'm not even going to get into Gaara, because involving him in this discussion is asinine and stupid, given the way he was raised and the lengths he went to redeem himself.

[rocci]

Is this your first post in this site?

Not all NS fan like obito.
In fact it's split between 2 with how many people hate obito in here because many reason like he's a criminal, naruto's coolest guy ever, and/or he's uchiha.

I like obito because he's naruto parallel and their comparison could make the story interesting Eventhought the author doesn't fulfill the potential.

And while I don't hate nor like sasuke. I agree with the reasoning number 1 that he stole the title and protagonist of this manga spot light.

[Bail o' Lies]

Who said we liked Obito? The only thing I like about him is that he is another parallel with Naruto in this case showing "What would happen to Naruto if Sakura were to die on the battle field." Other then that he is just another Uchiha that has over taken the plot.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 October 2016 - 02:21 AM.

[Therece]

No i'm registered since 2014.

Gaara who was once a full on crazy murderer and later becomes a Kage, keep in mind he's killed a lot more innocent people than sasuke never had.
Sasuke didn't committed a mass murder or Genocide like Obito or killed somebody important like Neji. Sasuke just threatened to destroy the village. But dropped out this idea before he could kill any person.
So you really think a Main Character will die because of 5  samurais in a ninja world?
 

Obito is the one who created and manipulated an organization who did everything to capture the Bijuus.
Started a War to capture the remnants bijuus.
Just some minutes before he tried to slave all the Humanity (and also turn billions into Zetsu-like zombies) and revived the Juubi successful.
So his "help" didn't matter to much. He just helped a little to clean all the mess that he himself caused.
5 minutes of Obito's 'redemption' isn't making up for a lifetime of deaths and crimes. Just because obito had a change of heart after all his plans went to kitten and he was just another idiot manipulated by Madara.
He just helped to defeat a thing that he was the main responsible in the first case.


While Sasuke just gave the Hachibi tail.Obito was the one who used this tail and more 7 Bijuus to revive the Juubi ALONE. And also started the same war ALONE  who killed  thousands of persons.

Sasuke didn't sealed any bijuu inside Gedo Mazo.
Sasuke didn't revived the Juubi.
Sasuke doesn't controlled the Juubi.
Sasuke wasn't at the top of the Juubi when he killed these people
Sasuke even isn't present in these situation or killed any single member of alliance
Sasuke isn't responsible for this War started by Obito, Madara and Kabuto.

Sasuke redeemed his crimes like enter in the Akatsuki. When he helped against Kabuto, Juubi, Obito, Madara and Kaguya and brought 4 Hokages to stop the war. He actively opposed the war, and ultimately put it to an end saving everyone in the process. He didn't even kill anyone in the war. After still dissipated the Mugen Tsukuyomi with Naruto. Saving the humanity to become white zetsus. Without Sasuke's participation in the War the whole world would be destroyed. This is more than sufficient to sasuke gain his pardon. (I'm defending only his pardon, not Sasusaku)

Sasuke's "revolution" didn't kill anyone the only consequence was Naruto's  arm loss.
While obito's plan killed almost entire world, naruto's parents and all jinchuurikis,
Sasuke's wanted to die for redeem himself but the own Naruto convinced him to not die and working to change the world.

Obito was the main responsible for Sasuke's crimes. The "coolest guy" wanted to manipulate Sasuke  telling him the Itachi's truth.

Obito is also a stupid Villain. Obito was a good villain when he was the Masked Man. When Obito was revealed his whole development was focused only in Rin. The masked Man and Obito doesn't seem the same characters.
Obito is just a "dark" Naruto while The Masked Man was another character.
Just another Naruto "wanna be" to serve as parallel to him. 
Then the new Obito has a Hokage dream which was never mentioned in the Original Kakashi Gaiden.

The Obsession with Rin and his whole story was really bad and creepy. Obitos Motives and actions are far too hard and made his redemption more stupid.


Sasuke has  better motives to turn in a  Villain

All his family murdered cruelly by his brother when he had only 8.
Being tortured, taunting and brainwashing  72 Hours in a Tsukuyomi
Later found his brother was used by the village to kill his own clan


Obito

Rin died


I understand Sasuke's motives for revenge and justice much more than Obito's stupid motives. Sasuke's Family and his brother is much more important than a stupid 12 years Girl who loved another guy.
Even Haku have better motive and story to turn in a villain than Obito.



My point is  some (not all)  NaruSaku fans are biased against Sasuke  because of pairing preferences and the fact he was the Naruto's opposite and his rival while didn't care about much more worse criminals in this case Obito just because he helped NaruSaku with parallels  and was similar to Naruto.

 

In my opinion ObiRin isn't even a good Narusaku parallel showing a mass murderer obsessed with a 12 years girl who is coward to a point to use a baby as a  hostage...
God, what a terrible  parallel.

MinaKushi is the only NS parallel that i like because it is reciprocated.

Edited by Therece, 09 October 2016 - 04:01 AM.

[Therece]

About Gaara

 

Sasuke in part 1  and even  in part 2 until Kage arc was a very benevolent person Like when he refused to Kill Naruto to get MS or innocent people during his battles







 

Gaara had  a numerous murders and deaths in his bag at the age of 12.
Gaara was a true cold blooded murderer and psychopath in Part 1much more worse than Sasuke in his worst state during Iron Country arc. Sasuke only killed Randoms Samurais for self defense.
Gaara killed only  for fun








 Gaara  even enjoyed to kill and torture people in cruel ways



He  even goes for the hospital to kill an innocent lee without any defense only  because he wants without any reason.











Gaara killed without no reason anyone who was in his front:






Yeah,also tried to kill Sakura...

Shukaku isn't a Excuse
Before Yashamaru died Shukaku wasn't convincing him to kill people, after Naruto came along Shukaku wasn't either. We now know that it was always his mother's love that was protecting him in the form of a Sand shield, not the Bijuu. And like Kurama Shukaku wasn't actually that malevolent.


Gaara was doing everything of his own will. It was he who ultimately decided that he existed to kill.
He had clearly gone insane, but that's not an excuse. 

Sasuke too was going off the deep end, but Sasuke never turned out as bad as Gaara.

Not only me are comparing Sasuke to Gaara. but even GAARA compared himself to Sasuke.
His similarity to Sasuke was the reason for his obsession with him in Part 1, saying he had the same eyes; eyes that knew true pain and loneliness.
In Part 2 he directly compared himself to Sasuke, crying for him and saying that his eyes were still the way Gaara's were before.

When Gaara snapped and became insane, deciding to only live for himself and to kill, it was from Yashamaru's betrayal. This is not unlike Sasuke's feelings of betrayal from Itachi, and later Konoha, except Gaara didn't have his entire family murdered.
And even if Gaara had a worse childhood, Gaara also turned out worse. He was pretty much the most evil character in the series during the time before Naruto TnJ'd him.
 

The only difference was Sasuke is a main character who will be the final antagonist. Rival of naruto
While Gaara was a side character.

Gaara's decline to insanity, and his conversion, was quick, while Sasuke's fall and redemption was slower. Sasuke couldn't be easily converted because he still retained a very coherent mindset, which continued to reason against Naruto's advances.
 

Edited by Therece, 09 October 2016 - 04:25 AM.

[AHK]

No i'm registered since 2014.

Gaara who was once a full on crazy murderer and later becomes a Kage, keep in mind he's killed a lot more innocent people than sasuke never had.
Sasuke didn't committed a mass murder or Genocide like Obito or killed somebody important like Neji. Sasuke just threatened to destroy the village. But dropped out this idea before he could kill any person.
So you really think a Main Character will die because of 5  samurais in a ninja world?
 

Obito is the one who created and manipulated an organization who did everything to capture the Bijuus.
Started a War to capture the remnants bijuus.
Just some minutes before he tried to slave all the Humanity (and also turn billions into Zetsu-like zombies) and revived the Juubi successful.
So his "help" didn't matter to much. He just helped a little to clean all the mess that he himself caused.
5 minutes of Obito's 'redemption' isn't making up for a lifetime of deaths and crimes. Just because obito had a change of heart after all his plans went to kitten and he was just another idiot manipulated by Madara.
He just helped to defeat a thing that he was the main responsible in the first case.


While Sasuke just gave the Hachibi tail.Obito was the one who used this tail and more 7 Bijuus to revive the Juubi ALONE. And also started the same war ALONE  who killed  thousands of persons.

Sasuke didn't sealed any bijuu inside Gedo Mazo.
Sasuke didn't revived the Juubi.
Sasuke doesn't controlled the Juubi.
Sasuke wasn't at the top of the Juubi when he killed these people
Sasuke even isn't present in these situation or killed any single member of alliance
Sasuke isn't responsible for this War started by Obito, Madara and Kabuto.

Sasuke redeemed his crimes like enter in the Akatsuki. When he helped against Kabuto, Juubi, Obito, Madara and Kaguya and brought 4 Hokages to stop the war. He actively opposed the war, and ultimately put it to an end saving everyone in the process. He didn't even kill anyone in the war. After still dissipated the Mugen Tsukuyomi with Naruto. Saving the humanity to become white zetsus. Without Sasuke's participation in the War the whole world would be destroyed. This is more than sufficient to sasuke gain his pardon. (I'm defending only his pardon, not Sasusaku)

Sasuke's "revolution" didn't kill anyone the only consequence was Naruto's  arm loss.
While obito's plan killed almost entire world, naruto's parents and all jinchuurikis,
Sasuke's wanted to die for redeem himself but the own Naruto convinced him to not die and working to change the world.

Obito was the main responsible for Sasuke's crimes. The "coolest guy" wanted to manipulate Sasuke  telling him the Itachi's truth.

Obito is also a stupid Villain. Obito was a good villain when he was the Masked Man. When Obito was revealed his whole development was focused only in Rin. The masked Man and Obito doesn't seem the same characters.
Obito is just a "dark" Naruto while The Masked Man was another character.
Just another Naruto "wanna be" to serve as parallel to him. 
Then the new Obito has a Hokage dream which was never mentioned in the Original Kakashi Gaiden.

The Obsession with Rin and his whole story was really bad and creepy. Obitos Motives and actions are far too hard and made his redemption more stupid.


Sasuke has  better motives to turn in a  Villain

All his family murdered cruelly by his brother when he had only 8.
Being tortured, taunting and brainwashing  72 Hours in a Tsukuyomi
Later found his brother was used by the village to kill his own clan


Obito

Rin died


I understand Sasuke's motives for revenge and justice much more than Obito's stupid motives. Sasuke's Family and his brother is much more important than a stupid 12 years Girl who loved another guy.
Even Haku have better motive and story to turn in a villain than Obito.



My point is  some (not all)  NaruSaku fans are biased against Sasuke  because of pairing preferences and the fact he was the Naruto's opposite and his rival while didn't care about much more worse criminals in this case Obito just because he helped NaruSaku with parallels  and was similar to Naruto.

 

In my opinion ObiRin isn't even a good Narusaku parallel showing a mass murderer obsessed with a 12 years girl who is coward to a point to use a baby as a  hostage...
God, what a terrible  parallel.

MinaKushi is the only NS parallel that i like because it is reciprocated.

Let's say that me and you were standing in front of a person kneeling on the ground. You had a gun in your hand, and I have a clip. I give you the clip, and you shoot the person kneeling in front of us. Am I not responsible for the murder as well as you? 

 

It's the same with Sasuke. He provided Obito with a piece of the Juubi, which became a weapon to be used against tens of thousands of people. Sasuke is just as responsible for the murders of everybody in the war (including Neji) as Obito is. Obito does not hold any responsibility towards Sasuke's crimes, as in the end, Sasuke chose to follow his path. Obito never forced him, Sasuke chose to do those things. 

 

Obito didn't start the war on his own, the Akatsuki started the war with him. They all knew what they were doing when they joined the group. 

 

Sasuke didn't redeem himself during the war. Sasuke was not fighting the war with the others, he was fighting the war on his own. It only served his purposes to have Obito, who was stronger than he was, out of the way so that he could implement his plan. 

 

Obito is by far the better villain than Sasuke. Like it isn't even close. Sasuke was a rip off of Madara all the way to the core. His motivations made no sense. He spouted all that crap he was doing was for Itachi, yet he was trying to destroy the very thing Itachi was trying to protect.

 

As for ObiRin, it was most definitely a parallel for NS, whether you like to admit it or not. ObiRin, before Rin died, was an exact replica of NS. There's really no debating that.  

 

In regards to Gaara, again, it's embarrassing to even try to compare him to Sasuke. He changed himself and spent years doing so, and was able to rise to the top of the village despite his history. Sasuke got handed a get out of jail free card purely because he was Naruto's friend. Sasuke deserved nothing more than a death sentence. 

 

Gaara and Obito completely outclassed Sasuke in terms of redeeming themselves. 

 

Sasuke is a mass murderer, and would have murdered many more people had he not been beaten by Naruto. There's no debating that either.

Edited by AHK, 09 October 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[BlackBird19]

To be honest, The only characters I felt were true villains were Madara and pre-resurrection Orochimaru. But man did they get ruined in the end.

 

As far as Obito goes I don't give him a pass, however his turning evil is more than just the death of Rin. He was shown to have undergone a long term manipulation at the hands of Madara. Capped off by the trigger of having to watch his friend kill the girl he loved without any context. From that point on he's pretty much brainwashed enough to believe the IT is the only plan worth following through with no matter who is in control of it. Not the best background story, but still somewhat believable because brainwashing and the manipulation of people to do horrible things is very real. The main reason I have very few issues with Obito though, is the fact that he's dead. He's not alive to be punished or I would be right there saying he needs to suffer some form of severe consequences.

 

As for Gaara, his initial behavior was explained thoroughly I felt. While not everybody liked that his backstory was so detailed in the later chapters. It doesn't mean that it didn't do the job. He's despised and feared from the moment Shukaku is sealed in him. He endures assassination attempts at a very early age, most at the orders of his own father and one from his beloved Yashimaru who basically told him that he is and forever will be feared, hated and alone. He then permanently snaps at that point. He is said to suffer from insomnia, which I know for fact can drive people crazy. And is heavily influenced by Shukaku due to his insanity. Naruto losing himself to Kurama when he goes in a rage is proof of that. I mean Naruto openly states that if he grew up like Gaara, he would probably have been like Gaara. Personally what I felt was lacking was more detail into Gaara's redemption in terms of the people of Suna.

 

Now onto Sasuke. Considering all the detail that went into his character, I think we all know how he got set on his path to darkness or whatever. My biggest issue with Sasuke is that despite the traumatic event he endured, we were shown that he had more of a choice than Gaara or Obito as far as what direction his life could go. He didn't need a heavy dose of manipulation from Orochimaru or Obito, he just needed a push. A simple promise of power or a story told in a certain way and he was off on his quest for vengeance. His choice is made. His need for self gratification outweighing any thoughts he might have had about the consequences of his actions. The second biggest issue I have with him is that he is alive and well, having never undergone any significant punishment. With the icing on the cake being that he could still have the girl if he wanted her, and get her on his terms. But for me it always comes back to the choice he made. He had a viable choice to stay with people who could heal him, but decided against it. He decided his revenge was more important. Important enough to commit betrayal, murder, attempted murder and the near ruin of the world. That's why I have more issues with Sasuke than any other character.

 

Also, the way the end was written it felt as if Sasuke would truly never have stopped himself had he defeated Naruto. Even going so far as to ask what would happen if he had some sort of relapse. As if he doesn't even trust himself.

Edited by BlackBird19, 09 October 2016 - 05:48 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Kishimoto had a problem that is "that no one is born evil, its society that makes someone evil." In other world almost every villain (except Gato) in the manga is evil because of the flaws in the ninja system. So almost every time a villain is defeat we must see a flashback of their tragic past so we can feel incredible sorrow for their death, and lament what good they could have done it society had help them instead of screwing them over. This is actually endemic to most shouen manga as most of manga of the genre have large number of casts are built off of former rivals and villains turned good after the main casts beats them. The thing is that different between most of other mangaka and kishi is that. The other mangaka still have people who are just genuine bastards who just need to be killed in their stories while kishi everyone is basically 'this'.

 

 All the villains are evil because of the ninja system and it needs to have either major reforms or outright removed could be consider a major theme in Naruto for a long time. The problem is that Kishimoto got side tracked by that "cycle of hatred" crap. The thing is that the "cycle of hatred" really isn't a part of Naruto's character or his themes. The "flaws in the ninja system" and "a need to reform it?" Yes. Revenge? No. Hell, the one time he was out for revenge he stopped and instead listened to the bad guy's story of how his dog died. But the "cycle of hatred" and the "obsession with revenge can destroy your life" is apart of Sasuke's themes. So that just another part of Sasuke taking over the manga because kishi makes him evil but not too evil and then tries to justify why he is evil.

 

How this relates to a problem in the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke?  It is he felt more need to explain and justify Sasuke's revolution plan (that we know is not going to happen) instead of explaining to Sasuke and the audience what Naruto's plan was. Since these are the last chapters and the final battle and it would be nice if Naruto can explain how he is going to fix the system that been an obvious problem since Chapter 1. So literally from a literary stand point what they are talking about in this battle is a waste of time.

 

Kishimoto failed to properly explain what Naruto plan was. Which obviously if we looked at how they story developed since the beginning was reform the Ninja system. The problem is Kishimoto didn't lay it out or explain it so all we are left is listening to Sasuke's plan. Naruto already had a lot of influnce as the heart of the ninja army or what ever he is. If he used that properly to influence the other villages as well as his own he could have removed a lot of problem with the system. Then the "Will of Fire" and the next generation continues enacting more reform. Which is basically what has been happening in konoha since the first hokage. Once again kishimoto didn't explain it nor care so Naruto has no plan so nothing is accomplish in the end. Then again doing nothing is at least better then Sasuke's plan

 

Sasuke's plan. If one were to start a revolution to set up a new system. One would need to think long and hard about all the details. Instead Sasuke plan was first to kill all the hokages and Naruto so one could oppose him. Then become the sole kage who "dwells in the shadow." Where he would exist and kill anyone who disagrees with him. And somehow this would create his peaceful world. By making everyone live in fear of him, and killing a lot of people. That's it. Really, that is it. This is not a good plan.

[Bail o' Lies]

Sasuke's intention was to give killer bee to Obito. But he used up so much power by that point he had to turn off his Sharingan so he did not realize the switch. In fact after the battle with Pein Sasuke was planning on heading to konoha to burn it to the ground with his new powers but only stop when Obito pointed him towards the kage meeting where Danzo would be. His group was actually pissed that Obito was stopping them despite them holding up their end of the bargain which it then when Obito tell them that wasn't the case.

 

AGAIN: IT WAS SASUKE'S INTENTION TO GIVE THEM KILLER BEE KNOWING WHAT THEY WILL DO WITH HIM AND WHILE HE KNEW THEY WOULD BE BUSY DOING THAT. HE PLANNED ON BURNING KONOHA TO THE GROUND.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 October 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Legend054]

i don't hate obito nor do i hate sasuke.  i know a lot of people didn't like tobi being obito. but i actually predicted that it was obito behind it. to me it was pretty darn cool when he turned out to obito  and i thought it was a very good twist as most people didn't expect that kind of a$$pull from kishi. i'll give you reasons why it was obito. i wasn't sure about this until konan partially broke his mask. that was the first time we saw the right half of tobi's face showing some scars and he was wearing a white headband.  this explains the damage by the boulders on obito's right side of his face. also there was just no clear indication to believe if obito actually died. for all we know he was just lying under the boulders stuck with little life left in him until someone recovered his body. there were so many hints about tobi's identity. the obvious one was the two names obito and tobi sounding very similar. not to mention kakashi's mangenkyo which gave him power to use kamui had a distinctive connection to tobi's space time ninjutsu. this was of course before tobi's real identity was revealed. im just explaning to you how i predicted this. i never believed tobi to be madara because he should've been dead long time ago. the kannabi bridge incident happened only a few years before the nine tails incident, so obito could still be very much alive at that time. and if tobi was indeed madara as he claimed he was then there shouldn't be any reason for him to be hiding behind that mask. the other theory was tobi being shishui. that was probably the most popular theory about tobi. i considered that possibility, but it didn't quite make sense to me due to the lack of background info on shisui. the only thing we knew about him was he was itachi's best friend. i didn't see any potential motives for shisui to be tobi. anyway these are the reasons how i predicted tobi's identity so i don't understand the hate on obito. not gonna try to justify his criminal acts but to be fair he was brainwashed by madara. no one else was there to help him or influence him after rin was killed but madara. i wouldn't blame sasuke's character. he really should've been the final villain and stayed true to his vengeful character. there was no hope of making him good again. in this case id blame the writers, it's their fault just like how they ruined sakura's character potential to grow. if there's any character i hate its HINATA BECAUSE SHE GAVE BIRTH TO THE MOST ANNOYING FANS IN THE WORLD

[Shadow1275]

I have noticed many NaruSaku fans hate Sasuke  and wanted his death for many reasons

1 - Sometimes he is more important than the protagonist and steal the spotlight from Naruto
2 - He is the main obstacle for NaruSaku
3 - He is Naruto's Rival
4 - Naruto lost to him many times and wasn't able to win against him in the final battle.
4 - Naruto also lost in the "love" against Sasuke.
5 - He stole Sakura from Naruto although he never did anything to her while Naruto did everything for Her.


But The main reason:
His crimes and the fact he received a free pass and still was able to impregnate sakura and receive a family


But many narusaku fans  gave a free pass to Obito. Obito didn't tried to kill Rin
But obito's crimes are far worse than Sasuke.

I find this a little hypocritical..

Sasuke's Crimes:

Joined in Akatsuki and tried to capture Hachibi
Killed 5 or 8 unimportant samurais
fought against the Gokage
Tried to kill Sakura, Kakashi and Naruto.

Obito's crimes:

Attacked a mother giving birth,trying to kill a newborn baby,rip out a bijju from a helpless weakened mother's body,not to mention that mother was his own sensei's wife.
Obito Attempts to kill a baby by blowing it up with an explosive tag
Obito unleashed Fox on village making him directly responsible for everyone that died then, helped to kill his own clan

Attempted to destroy all the world, directly responsible for starting a war against the shinobi world making him responsible for 10,000 deaths, helped form and corrupted Akatsuki, manipulated Akatsuki and Nagato to capture all the jinchuurikis. Revived the Juubi  and Killed more  thousands people when became Juubi's Jinchuuriki.


Obito wasn't punished too. Obito only died as punishment.
Well this isn't a punishment. Since in afterlife he was rewarded with Rin and Obito still gets to spend the rest of his afterlife with her.

Obito deserved to burn in hell  to pay his sins not be rewarded  with Rin.
Naruto still pardoned Obito's crimes and defended the criminal after his death with the  stupidest lines I have ever read in this manga, if not the stupidest ever:
"he was the coolest guy"  just because Obito was similar to him and had the same Hokage dream.

 

So did you thinks most of the Narusakus fans  gave a free pass to Obito because he is the main Naruto "parallel" while Rin is Sakura "parallel"  and ObiRin helped NaruSaku?
Or NaruSaku fans hates Obito too?

Not just Obito, But also Gaara fits as well   with his crimes but he isn't a NaruSaku parallel    or the problem is just Sasuke  because  NaruSaku ?

 

 

Most of us hated how Obito was the, "Coolest guy." Many of us were Neji fans and didnt like when he died. Personally I hated the ObiRin parallel. It was just plain obsession in the end. Brainwash the world bc you let rin die? Come on that is pathetic for a character.

 

 

Obito and Sasuke can burn. And those samurai who died may seem unimportant to you died defending their homes and a PEACE conference that was discussing how to take out terrorists. They are not unimportant and it is still at the least manslaughter and assassination.

[Yyubie]

If you think about it, Uchiha is the source of all problem. From the moment Sasuke is introduce into this manga, everything is just about him, other character is just serve as filter to his perfections. That's not the only source of hate, he is born from copy pasting (like 100% copy paste : his clan, his revenge, how his clan get massacre) other character from other manga (if you know who i mean). My biggest hate for him at first is when it was explain how his clan got extinct to every detail even the studio explain it again twice using a filler, but do we see how Uzumaki clan got extinct ?? When you realize Sasuke background is explain to the last bit of details like that while the MC Naruto didn't get that treatment : that is a BIG RED FLAG to me. Then we got that bull kitten ass word "You became my only goal" ...... i mean i'm just speechless , is basically saying Naruto exist only to make Character perfect, hes just serve as a horse while Sasuke ride on him as a king.

 

And about Obito ... like i said ALL UCHIHA is the source of problem in this manga, they all should died and i'm glad they all died, Sasuke death should complete the circle but of course he is the Golden boy , Kishi's favorite ... so he got author plot amour , death, justice, and punishment will never ever reach him. I would love to see more about Uzumaki, Sarutobi, Hyuga, Inuzuka, Akamichi, Aburame, all this clan got introduce but never get back story ... all we got is only uchiha , uchiha, and uchiha a

 

Naruto surpass his master, but he will never surpass Sasuke, Sasuke steal everything he ever dream of, even his own Son now idolize him better than his own father.

[Legend054]

ok i see now where people are coming from. obito had a shtt motive. his obsession made him do all that. yeah that's pretty pathetic but lets not forget madara was the one who corrupted his mind and gave him all those ideas. nobody was there was to give him moral support and he felt somewhat indebted to madara so he went to take on madara's ideals. not sure if im giving him free pass for his aactions, but the only who can truly forgive him are naruto and his familly which i think they did. probably no free pass for obito and absolutely not for sasuke. both obito and sasuke should've remained villains imo. not really a fan of obito's character nor do i hate his character. i do however like sasuke's vengeful character and being naruto's rival (doesn't mean i support his evil acts lol).obito and sasuke are supposed to be hated after all they've done, so im not disagreeing with you all

Edited by Legend054, 10 October 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[Nate River]

Is this your first post in this site?

Not all NS fan like obito.
In fact it's split between 2 with how many people hate obito in here because many reason like he's a criminal, naruto's coolest guy ever, and/or he's uchiha.

I like obito because he's naruto parallel and their comparison could make the story interesting Eventhought the author doesn't fulfill the potential.

And while I don't hate nor like sasuke. I agree with the reasoning number 1 that he stole the title and protagonist of this manga spot light.

 

I would agree with the part about the site being split, Tricksie and I have been VERY vocal Anti-Obito and anti-ObiRin. I had huge arguments with several members over that. I still hate Obito. 

 

ok i see now where people are coming from. obito had a shtt motive. his obsession made him do all that. yeah that's pretty pathetic but lets not forget madara was the one who corrupted his mind and gave him all those ideas. nobody was there was to give him moral support and he felt somewhat indebted to madara so he went to take on madara's ideals. not sure if im giving him free pass for his aactions, but the only who can truly forgive him are naruto and his familly which i think they did. probably no free pass for obito and absolutely not for sasuke. both obito and sasuke should've remained villains imo. not really a fan of obito's character nor do i hate his character. i do however like sasuke's vengeful character and being naruto's rival (doesn't mean i support his evil acts lol).obito and sasuke are supposed to be hated after all they've done, so im not disagreeing with you all

 

If we are going to go down that road, then what about Itachi's (and Obito's) manipulation of Sasuke.

[Legend054]

If we are going to go down that road, then what about Itachi's (and Obito's) manipulation of Sasuke.gu

That's actually true. Itachi made Sasuke the way he is. Itachi admits that mistake, so he entrusted Naruto to save Sasuke. Yeah Sasuke was out of his mind and it wasn't until after meeting reanimated Itachi and the war where he began thinking more rationally. It's hard to blame Sasuke now including Obito. They're actually both pretty even since Madara and Itachi brainwashed them as kids respectively. I do agree though that Obito's motive is somewhat pathetic, but it still doesn't give me any reason to hate his character. I have no opinion of him to tell you the truth. I was just happy that my prediction of Tobi's identity was right. The only prediction I wasn't very happy about was NaruSaku not happening. I was almost damn sure they were the endgame.

[Legend054]

If you think about it, Uchiha is the source of all problem. From the moment Sasuke is introduce into this manga, everything is just about him, other character is just serve as filter to his perfections. That's not the only source of hate, he is born from copy pasting (like 100% copy paste : his clan, his revenge, how his clan get massacre) other character from other manga (if you know who i mean). My biggest hate for him at first is when it was explain how his clan got extinct to every detail even the studio explain it again twice using a filler, but do we see how Uzumaki clan got extinct ?? When you realize Sasuke background is explain to the last bit of details like that while the MC Naruto didn't get that treatment : that is a BIG RED FLAG to me. Then we got that bull kitten ass word "You became my only goal" ...... i mean i'm just speechless , is basically saying Naruto exist only to make Character perfect, hes just serve as a horse while Sasuke ride on him as a king.

 

And about Obito ... like i said ALL UCHIHA is the source of problem in this manga, they all should died and i'm glad they all died, Sasuke death should complete the circle but of course he is the Golden boy , Kishi's favorite ... so he got author plot amour , death, justice, and punishment will never ever reach him. I would love to see more about Uzumaki, Sarutobi, Hyuga, Inuzuka, Akamichi, Aburame, all this clan got introduce but never get back story ... all we got is only uchiha , uchiha, and uchiha a

 

Naruto surpass his master, but he will never surpass Sasuke, Sasuke steal everything he ever dream of, even his own Son now idolize him better than his own father.

Sorry for the late reply. I was skipping through the thread and didn't see your message. You made some good points. 

 

 

 i mean i'm just speechless , is basically saying Naruto exist only to make Character perfect, hes just serve as a horse while Sasuke ride on him as a king.

Naruto surpass his master, but he will never surpass Sasuke, Sasuke steal everything he ever dream of, even his own Son now idolize him better than his own father.

Naruto was supposed to be the underdog. Kishi intended that from the start. If Naruto had everything from the beginning, we wouldn't have a show. Naruto's main goal was to become Hokage and to be acknowledged by everyone. We were all looking forward to see him achieve that dream. Other conditions had to be met as well based on realistic expectations from what the manga had given. He didn't have to win the girl's heart from his rival, but we know it's the most logical based on what we saw in the manga. 

 

Naruto won in the final battle vs Sasuke because he didn't use his full power, but still managed to end up in a draw while Sasuke used everything in his arsenal to kill Naruto. It was clear Naruto surpassed Sasuke by the end of the manga. 

 

 

 

 

 

And yeah Uchiha clan is a curse. Hatred was their destiny

[AHK]

That's actually true. Itachi made Sasuke the way he is. Itachi admits that mistake, so he entrusted Naruto to save Sasuke. Yeah Sasuke was out of his mind and it wasn't until after meeting reanimated Itachi and the war where he began thinking more rationally. It's hard to blame Sasuke now including Obito. They're actually both pretty even since Madara and Itachi brainwashed them as kids respectively. I do agree though that Obito's motive is somewhat pathetic, but it still doesn't give me any reason to hate his character. I have no opinion of him to tell you the truth. I was just happy that my prediction of Tobi's identity was right. The only prediction I wasn't very happy about was NaruSaku not happening. I was almost damn sure they were the endgame.

That is ridiculously false. Itachi didn't make Sasuke into anything, Sasuke chose who he was going to be. He chose to betray the leaf, he chose to go with Orochimaru, he chose to stick his hand in Naruto's chest, and so on and so forth. Sasuke always had a choice. 

 

Naruto and Gaara faced incredible adversity as children as well. Naruto could have destroyed the leaf after everything he went through, but chose not to. Gaara initially chose to kill after being the target of many assassination attempts, and then again chose to stop and change himself. 

 

Obito didn't have the same choice Sasuke did, because he was literally trapped inside of a cave with his manipulator, and there was no reprieve for him. He was even forced (though he didn't know it) to watch Rin's death, which was orchestrated by Madara himself. 

 

Sasuke had none of that. Sasuke always had an option, and always chose to do the wrong thing. Itachi didn't make him do anything.

[Legend054]

That is ridiculously false. Itachi didn't make Sasuke into anything, Sasuke chose who he was going to be. He chose to betray the leaf, he chose to go with Orochimaru, he chose to stick his hand in Naruto's chest, and so on and so forth. Sasuke always had a choice. 

 

Naruto and Gaara faced incredible adversity as children as well. Naruto could have destroyed the leaf after everything he went through, but chose not to. Gaara initially chose to kill after being the target of many assassination attempts, and then again chose to stop and change himself. 

 

Obito didn't have the same choice Sasuke did, because he was literally trapped inside of a cave with his manipulator, and there was no reprieve for him. He was even forced (though he didn't know it) to watch Rin's death, which was orchestrated by Madara himself. 

 

Sasuke had none of that. Sasuke always had an option, and always chose to do the wrong thing. Itachi didn't make him do anything.

Itachi told Sasuke to grow his hatred. Those were the last words Sasuke heard from his only brother after the massacre. What else was Sasuse supposed to do. No one was exactly there for him to teach him love. Everytime he met Itachi, his hatred would become stronger. And who taught him or motivated him to do that? I'm not saying it was entirely Itachi's fault. But it was partly because of him that made Sasuke who he is. Why would you tell your brother to hate not love? Itachi admitted it himself. He tried to shoulder everything, but it led Sasuke to darkness because of that. Everyone always have a choice, so I'm not justifying Sasuke's actions. All I'm saying is, Itachi drove Sasuke to develop hatred. Naruto at least had Iruka.

 

Everyone had a choice. Obito had the option to go back to the village after Rin's death, but chose to trust Madara instead.

 

 

 

Not to mention Itachi tortured a kid Sasuke mentally, then he went insane years later. Both Obito and Sasuke were tortured mentally, but i'm not gonna argue who had it worse.

Edited by Legend054, 16 October 2016 - 12:10 AM.

[Nate River]

That is ridiculously false. Itachi didn't make Sasuke into anything, Sasuke chose who he was going to be. He chose to betray the leaf, he chose to go with Orochimaru, he chose to stick his hand in Naruto's chest, and so on and so forth. Sasuke always had a choice. 

 

Naruto and Gaara faced incredible adversity as children as well. Naruto could have destroyed the leaf after everything he went through, but chose not to. Gaara initially chose to kill after being the target of many assassination attempts, and then again chose to stop and change himself. 

 

Obito didn't have the same choice Sasuke did, because he was literally trapped inside of a cave with his manipulator, and there was no reprieve for him. He was even forced (though he didn't know it) to watch Rin's death, which was orchestrated by Madara himself. 

 

Sasuke had none of that. Sasuke always had an option, and always chose to do the wrong thing. Itachi didn't make him do anything.

 

Obito chose too. You're just making excuses. No one made him return to Madara's lair and no one made him continue on with the plan for many years after Madara died. Yes, Sasuke could have chosen to stay, but Obito had years to realize" "OMG, what the hell am I doing?" But nah. Even after he manipulates Nagato and visits hell on Konaha (in part because he ridiculously blames the 4th for not saving Rin). I also wonder how deep the manipulation lasted past Madara's death because Obito did seem intent on screwing Madara over at the end. He didn't care one whit about the truth.

 

But, you say, Madara had already done so fantastical a job of manipulating him that he was a lost cause. Itachi murdered every one Sasuke cared about and purposefully offed him parents in front of his face. He then purposely placed him on the path of hate in order to achieve his own penance.  When Itachi returned he needlessly humiliated and tortured Sasuke in order to make sure he stayed on this path. That it didn't occurred over a period of time doesn't take away from how traumatic and defining the event was.

 

Of course, none of this excuses Sasuke behavior. He did terrible things and should have faced retribution for them. His "redemption" is so unsatisfying because he's never held accountable for anything and his "redemptive" act was done out of pure self-interest. He didn't do it to atone, he did it because Madara/Kaguya winning ended his ambitions. However, Obito isn't held to account for anything. He gets to choose his own death and in the afterlife is returned to what is essentially his "untainted" form. He gets to meet Rin again and she says...absolutely nothing about his entire adult life where he ruined countless lives because he couldn't deal with loss.

 

One of the reasons the tail end of Part 2 is so bad is that no one is held accountable for anything, except for maybe Madara. Kishimoto is so invested in the redemption narrative that common sense appeared to take a permanent vacation. 

 

As to the question of who is worse...well, deeds matter. Posters here can wax all day long about intent, but actual actions matter and Obito's are so much worse. I don't think it's even debatable. 

 

That's actually true. Itachi made Sasuke the way he is. Itachi admits that mistake, so he entrusted Naruto to save Sasuke. Yeah Sasuke was out of his mind and it wasn't until after meeting reanimated Itachi and the war where he began thinking more rationally. It's hard to blame Sasuke now including Obito. They're actually both pretty even since Madara and Itachi brainwashed them as kids respectively. I do agree though that Obito's motive is somewhat pathetic, but it still doesn't give me any reason to hate his character. I have no opinion of him to tell you the truth. I was just happy that my prediction of Tobi's identity was right. The only prediction I wasn't very happy about was NaruSaku not happening. I was almost damn sure they were the endgame.

 

Mistake is an understatement. It was cruel. Even if you think Itachi's choice was the best of a bad bunch, there was really no good reason to make it a point to kill their parents in front of Sasuke.