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#27081 Moon_Girl

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:04 AM

NH and SS were sister ships until the ending. Now they hate each other because they never really shipped the other. Only as a means to their ship. 
The absolute, undeniable truth is...

...Both ships suck and on top of that, Naruto and Sasuke are both terrible fathers. 
They should just agree on that, tbh.  :th_yeah:


NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#27082 Nostradamus

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:10 AM

NH and SS were sister ships until the ending. Now they hate each other because they never really shipped the other. Only as a means to their ship. 
The absolute, undeniable truth is...

...Both ships suck and on top of that, Naruto and Sasuke are both terrible fathers. 
They should just agree on that, tbh.  :th_yeah:

But they can't since they're to obsessed with their fantasies to acknowledge everything that's wrong with "Naruto".


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Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.

#27083 Luna

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 10:31 AM

NH and SS were sister ships until the ending. Now they hate each other because they never really shipped the other. Only as a means to their ship. 
The absolute, undeniable truth is...

...Both ships suck and on top of that, Naruto and Sasuke are both terrible fathers. 
They should just agree on that, tbh.  :th_yeah:

 

 

Sarada fans vs Boruto fans threads are amusing. 


tumblr_obl4bxdVJu1ugi0yyo1_400.gif
 


#27084 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 03:52 PM

 

 

Sarada fans vs Boruto fans threads are amusing. 

 

Sounds like one of those kinds of threads you'd wanna sit down with some popcorn and soda to be able to get a few laughs and watch the madness :D



#27085 Phantom_999

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 03:53 PM

NH and SS were sister ships until the ending. Now they hate each other because they never really shipped the other. Only as a means to their ship. 
The absolute, undeniable truth is...

...Both ships suck and on top of that, Naruto and Sasuke are both terrible fathers. 
They should just agree on that, tbh.  :th_yeah:

 

That is the truth!!!! But again that THING is Not Naruto, it is a $#% slave to Hinata Hyuga-hime called Nardo Scumzamaki :lmao: nothing can make me say different :smile:  :no:


Edited by Phantom_999, 18 October 2018 - 03:54 PM.

3fbe3276d61acb2079b56cd2212a341c14963200


#27086 Nate River

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 05:18 PM

So my theory is he made the decision at some point to end the story on NH, but never changed the manga to reflect that until the end. So he kept all the NS scenes, the love letter dude, Sakura and Minato's dialogue, both Naruto and Sakura saving each other...all that stuff. Then after "The True End," he started really moving towards NH. My guess is that the relationship stuff was going to end with Naruto and Sasuke's near deaths, only to have the rest of the plot be about the two of them fighting together, then fighting each other. Then being saved. And the epilogue would have been the surprise ending of Naruto with Sakura and Sasuke with Karin. (Not NH.)

Ive been reluctant to make a theory on this because there is no way anything can be proven. No on believe anything Kishimoto says and many of the theories presumed some sense of logic and cohension from an author many of us argue or have argued he doesnt possess. I think it could have come much earlier than most, but I dont know and at this point, dont really care. The rational for the ending matters less to me than the fact that he did it.

For what its worth, I do very much agree than he planned to end the manga much sooner than he did. This reason is also part of why Im not sure there is some grand theory behind what he did. Everything after Pain is very seat-of-your pants and there seems to be no plan other than Naruto v. Sasuke at the end. Maybe he really planned his titular character to become rudderless, reactionary, and to have no discernible purpose for several arcs, but I doubt it. So, I guess I do have some theory: he made it up as he went along with no serious plan other than they fight and I gotta set up a sequel.
 

Totally lost opportunity. Sasuke had his own team, his own love interest. These outsiders who were not quite bad but not quite good. It was the perfect fit. Instead, Sasuke's a loner and a deadbeat dad. It makes his time spent with Taka and bringing them back in the end just pointless.

I disagree. Sasuke even forming his own team made no sense given his motivations. Sasuke forming bonds and reforming via them would have made even less sense given his motivations and drive to complete them. What would Taka have driven him to do....they seemed to possess no independent motiviations or drive to do anything on their own. They just kinda followed him around. Karin chronicled his descent into darkness, but none of them brought anything out or new for his character. I guess they could be wondering hobos? But Sasuke could do that alone.

He also tried to murder one and abandoned the other two and they returned out of some sense of loyalty. I guess. I think Taka never should have been formed and everything surrounding them from a literary standpoint was a complete disaster. They suck and I wish they had never been introduced. And as awful as SS is...SK is the same problem on steroids.

Hey kids, let me tell about the time I left your mom to die on the forest floor.

In fact, their entire reconciliation pisses me off because it such bull crap. He abandoned them and they came back, virtually no questions asked. It wasnt even coincidental or out of revenge for what he did. They sought him out to rejoin and help him without a second thought. Isnt this kind of nonsense one of the core reasons Part 2 Sasuke blows so hard? That no matter what he does no one is willing to say F-you, Im outta here. Carving out a life with them doesnt seem functionally different than benign allowed back with open arms. Its the same basic problem: accountability is for chumps.

Him going on with them only makes sense semblance of sense if the manga decides that he was beyond redemption (as the manga saw it) and/or his crimes meant he could never return. We know from Obito that Naruto unlikely believes that anyone is beyond redemption no matter the crime. That was never going to happen because Naruto would have viewed it as a failure. Sasuke was going to be redeemed and he was going to return eventually.

Id have loved for Naruto to have been forced to actually confront he complexies of his path rather than just waiving him wand and redeeming them, but unless Kishimoto was willing to write or mixed ending (as opposed to the hero obtaining his goals) this would be impossible.

EDIT: As for the father thing, Naruto is unquestionably better for one simple reason: Hes there. My line of work puts in contact with families where Dad takes off or is spending years in prison. Ive definitely gotten the impression thatd they would prefer a poor dad to no dad at all. It would be different if he were abusive, but hes just a workaholic who isnt there enough. I think it beats the tar out of a dad who was AWOL for 12 years. Saradas crisis in gaiden doesnt occur if Sasuke even makes token efforts.

This gets skirted over because Sasuke seems to have a superior relationship with Sarada now that hes back and Boruto still has dad issues, but thats just what we see on paper. They could flap their arms and fly if the author wrote it. So, objectively speaking, I think Naruto is better.

I think is also a consequence of just the terrible portayal Naruto gets. Narutos issues with Boruto are unstandable and relatable....if portrayed well. Its not however, because we know so little about Narutos end of it other than he works and isnt there for reasons that seem really OOC for the guy we saw in the original series. Instead, they both come across as brats and kitten.

#27087 Moon_Girl

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 12:11 AM

The Hinata wanking never ends. They're making a figure of her in her wedding outfit.  :sick:


NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#27088 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 06:44 AM

The Hinata wanking never ends. They're making a figure of her in her wedding outfit.  :sick:

 

X_X Good God...



#27089 hisaberpie

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:13 PM

The Hinata wanking never ends. They're making a figure of her in her wedding outfit.  :sick:

 

Oh no... :down:



#27090 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 07:29 PM

The Hinata wanking never ends. They're making a figure of her in her wedding outfit.  :sick:

Quick! Someone hire a different company to make a figure of Hinatatas tripping and kissing the ground!


2e5.gif


#27091 tricksie

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 04:45 AM

Ive been reluctant to make a theory on this because there is no way anything can be proven. No on believe anything Kishimoto says and many of the theories presumed some sense of logic and cohension from an author many of us argue or have argued he doesnt possess. I think it could have come much earlier than most, but I dont know and at this point, dont really care. The rational for the ending matters less to me than the fact that he did it.

 

For what its worth, I do very much agree than he planned to end the manga much sooner than he did. This reason is also part of why Im not sure there is some grand theory behind what he did. Everything after Pain is very seat-of-your pants and there seems to be no plan other than Naruto v. Sasuke at the end. Maybe he really planned his titular character to become rudderless, reactionary, and to have no discernible purpose for several arcs, but I doubt it. So, I guess I do have some theory: he made it up as he went along with no serious plan other than they fight and I gotta set up a sequel.

Kishi's full o' crap as far as his excuses go. So it's absolutely all conjecture on the part of the reader about what he was thinking/planning, if he was at all. I just keep going back over the whole plot, to when it was cohesive — Part 1 through the end of the Pain arc. And all I come up with is that he must have had a really great editor, someone who helped him shine as the artist and concept creator. It wasn't the llustration or dialogue that drew readers. It was in the air-tight characters, their motivations and their follow through. The whole thing was good. After Pain, it unravels. There are moments of surprise or good writing (like his parents' flashback). But after Pain, the whole thing starts to slide. No more fully realized characters, no cohesive development or follow through. Even in someone like Obito, whose identity was hinted at from the beginning. It still fell flat. I think Kishi was just looking to wrap things up as quickly and easily as possible in the end. And the most proof to me is how he talks about the characters in interviews. You can just hear how he doesn't really care anymore. We thought we were going to get a crazy awesome tie-it-all-together ending...but he was just phoning it in.

 

I disagree. Sasuke even forming his own team made no sense given his motivations. Sasuke forming bonds and reforming via them would have made even less sense given his motivations and drive to complete them. What would Taka have driven him to do....they seemed to possess no independent motiviations or drive to do anything on their own. They just kinda followed him around. Karin chronicled his descent into darkness, but none of them brought anything out or new for his character. I guess they could be wondering hobos? But Sasuke could do that alone.


He also tried to murder one and abandoned the other two and they returned out of some sense of loyalty. I guess. I think Taka never should have been formed and everything surrounding them from a literary standpoint was a complete disaster. They suck and I wish they had never been introduced. And as awful as SS is...SK is the same problem on steroids.

Hey kids, let me tell about the time I left your mom to die on the forest floor.

Haha - I forgot you can't stand Taka!  :D And you're right. They're weak. Honestly, I feel like there was a purpose for them that was never followed through. Like a storyline for Sasuke that was abandoned. And with it, all hope of purpose for them being in the plot. They seemed to be a band of morally ambiguous misfits, a not-quite-akatsuki, that would have been perfect for Sasuke's redemption arc at the end. A nice oddball Not-Team-7 with whom Sasuke could ride off into the sunset and Naruto, Sakura, and the audience could forget about him. But yes, whereas it seems like SK might have been the parallel relationship at one time, therein lies the problem.... Uh yeah, he tries to kill her and them, and then there is no mending of that. They just pop up again at the end.

 

In fact, their entire reconciliation pisses me off because it such bull crap. He abandoned them and they came back, virtually no questions asked. It wasnt even coincidental or out of revenge for what he did. They sought him out to rejoin and help him without a second thought. Isnt this kind of nonsense one of the core reasons Part 2 Sasuke blows so hard? That no matter what he does no one is willing to say F-you, Im outta here. Carving out a life with them doesnt seem functionally different than benign allowed back with open arms. Its the same basic problem: accountability is for chumps.


Him going on with them only makes sense semblance of sense if the manga decides that he was beyond redemption (as the manga saw it) and/or his crimes meant he could never return. We know from Obito that Naruto unlikely believes that anyone is beyond redemption no matter the crime. That was never going to happen because Naruto would have viewed it as a failure. Sasuke was going to be redeemed and he was going to return eventually.
 

Yeah - like everything else in the war arc, the fact that Taka show up again, apropos of nothing, makes zero sense. And Karin heals Sasuke and what does he do? Show here a speck of loyalty? Nope. He goes after Sakura. So yeah, they are useless in the war arc, and serve no purpose ever again in the story. Sasuke does not rejoin them. Whatever point they had in the plot is just gone. And not only are we robbed of liking them from part 1 (or not liking them  :P), now we just hate them for not standing up to him. And then...no one does! Not Sakura, not Naruto, not Kakashi. No one. 

Id have loved for Naruto to have been forced to actually confront he complexies of his path rather than just waiving him wand and redeeming them, but unless Kishimoto was willing to write or mixed ending (as opposed to the hero obtaining his goals) this would be impossible.

I won't go on about Naruto, cause I already have tons and tons, but it's such a disappointment that the main character doesn't have a clearly defined hero's journey, with leveling up of challenges, each greater than the last, with his final battle be determined by how well he uses the skills he has learned along the way. To me, it's like an unfinished story.

 

EDIT: As for the father thing, Naruto is unquestionably better for one simple reason: Hes there. My line of work puts in contact with families where Dad takes off or is spending years in prison. Ive definitely gotten the impression thatd they would prefer a poor dad to no dad at all. It would be different if he were abusive, but hes just a workaholic who isnt there enough. I think it beats the tar out of a dad who was AWOL for 12 years. Saradas crisis in gaiden doesnt occur if Sasuke even makes token efforts.


This gets skirted over because Sasuke seems to have a superior relationship with Sarada now that hes back and Boruto still has dad issues, but thats just what we see on paper. They could flap their arms and fly if the author wrote it. So, objectively speaking, I think Naruto is better.

I think is also a consequence of just the terrible portayal Naruto gets. Narutos issues with Boruto are unstandable and relatable....if portrayed well. Its not however, because we know so little about Narutos end of it other than he works and isnt there for reasons that seem really OOC for the guy we saw in the original series. Instead, they both come across as brats and assholes.

Yesssss. Even though the flashback with his parents came later in the series (after the Pain arc), it was so dang good it makes me think that old editor must have had a hand in it. It was so honest and heartfelt, and really lifted up the whole series. All I think about is how true it is — how much parents are capable of loving their child and that it really is a privilege — and that kids may not know or hear that. It was lovely to see it happen to Naruto. I think as readers we can't know the impact of something like that, with a series and character as popular around the world as Naruto is. So with Boruto, it feels like a missed opportunity to me. It could be about learning and overcoming, etc etc. But it seems like they just have chosen some storytelling tropes. Instead of making Naruto into a dad who'se still figuring it out, learning that he can't be a knucklehead and that he has to work at parenting. That would be a poignant twist to his character, that as an adult he has to learn about what he never had. I know it's trite, but I think it's a missed opportunity. Stories like this make connections, set examples. They mean something. They seem to have lost sight of that with Boruto.



#27092 Phantom_999

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 03:29 PM

The Hinata wanking never ends. They're making a figure of her in her wedding outfit.  :sick:

 

*sigh* Oh well.............. Do you have a link to it? It doesn't bother me, I just want to see what it looks like. Besides it was obvious from the get go that otakus have an effing Hinata fetish :down:


Edited by Phantom_999, 20 October 2018 - 11:36 PM.

3fbe3276d61acb2079b56cd2212a341c14963200


#27093 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:20 AM

 

*sigh* Oh well.............. Do you have a link to it? It doesn't bother me, I just want to see what it looks like. Besides it was obvious from the get go that otakus have an effing Hinata fetish :down:

 

Why else cater to it so freakin' much...? XP



#27094 KClaws_2

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 08:25 AM

I've a feeling that we'll get a figurine of Hinata in her wedding lingerie soon...don't want to have that happen, but if those bed pillows are any indication...

 

Anyway, yes it's impossible to tell EXACTLY what was going on behind the scenes of the manga. For all we know maybe Kishimoto really is that crazy. I do recall for a fact he wanted to end the manga shortly after the Pain arc, and apparently he didn't want a timeskip to begin with. Again with the Kobiyashi interview, he pretty much confessed most of the manga's content was the brainchild of his editor, not him. I think that more than anything was disappointing.

 

I'll say in defense of most of what happened in the War Arc, the ideas did have merit and potential. Unfortunately, nothing came together perfectly or cohesively. It was just a mess, plain and simple. To make the ideas throughout the manga stick, it needed to cut at least a third of them to develop the most important ones.



#27095 Luna

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 07:42 PM

The Hinata praise has died down though. People thought she would be this super relevant character in Boruto but realize she's useless.

 

TpYSC82.gif


tumblr_obl4bxdVJu1ugi0yyo1_400.gif
 


#27096 LuckyChi7

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 08:38 PM

So this was on Twitter:

https://mobile.twitt...5184640/photo/1

The picture I mean lol

150bab87d56d1db6795486747312.jpg

 

WOULDN'T WANT IT ANY OTHER WAY!!


#27097 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 12:59 AM

The Hinata praise has died down though. People thought she would be this super relevant character in Boruto but realize she's useless.

 

TpYSC82.gif

Thing is Luna they will still think she is the greatest thing ever to be created in fiction.



#27098 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:02 AM

The Hinata praise has died down though. People thought she would be this super relevant character in Boruto but realize she's useless.

 

TpYSC82.gif

The thing is other then that one light novel...someone (sorry have a migraine right now) mentioned where hinata was a super powerful jounin that curb-stomped her sister with no effort. Hinata's main role in both the manga and the anime is mother to Boruto. Which means in the anime being the all mighty mom that terrifies Bolt for comical effect, in the manga probably will become a mother figure to Nail, and in both to be the dwarf planet that the daughter co-orbit around each other.

 

So this was on Twitter:

https://mobile.twitt...5184640/photo/1

The picture I mean lol

So, even American event have dropped Hinata for Naruto events (if they ever used her for promotion.)


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 30 October 2018 - 02:03 PM.


#27099 Moon_Girl

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 04:19 AM

 

*sigh* Oh well.............. Do you have a link to it? It doesn't bother me, I just want to see what it looks like. Besides it was obvious from the get go that otakus have an effing Hinata fetish :down:

Here's a pic of it. It's just how she looked in the anime.

Beware: May burn your eyes


NaruSaku will always be better than crack and fan fiction
 

#27100 Nostradamus

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 06:26 AM

Here's a pic of it. It's just how she looked in the anime.

Beware: May burn your eyes

That is actually perfect.

Really it's really well done. The attention to detail is exquisite.

There's only one thing missing.

A creepy smile with demon teeth.

That will make it, the perfect gift if you want to scare someone to death.

Although the way it is will do that successfully as well.


                               Posted Image
 
Which I've told you - time and time again - is dangerous! There will never be consensus, son, among those you have helped to ascend. They will all differ in their views of what it means to be free. The peace you so desperately seek does not exist.
 
These men are united now by a common cause. But when this battle is finished they will fall to fighting amongst themselves about how best to ensure control. In time it will lead to war. You will see.





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