31579 replies to this topic

[Illnevergiveup3]

I always thought her confession was true but was said at a time when she was still transferring from her crush on Sasuke to her true love with Naruto. It was said at a time when she still didn't accept her developing feelings for Naruto yet.

[Phantom_999]

It WAS true, What Naruto meant when she was lying to herself was that she felt nothing for Sasuke anymore which their confrontation afterward confirmed. I have always stated this Sakura is not an actress that can "fake" what she feels at the drop of a hat. She always expressed what she felt  if she is not in ""tsundere mode" and that blushing face she made when she confessed to Naruto doesn't look false does it? And adding on top of that, I have always argued this too. Is Sakura and Naruto's relationship so shallow and Sakura takes it for granted to the point she has to stoop to a "fake confession" just to get Naruto on a leash and do her bidding? Is that how little their friendship means? TO THE BOTH OF THEM???  that is the the question we must all ask are selves when thinking on this scenario. Is Sakura emotionally manipulating Naruto?  Has she EVER emotionally manipulated Naruto?

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 July 2020 - 05:29 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

It is not going to be permanent. It would've provided good character development for Naruto and boost his credibility.

 

And the fact he was acknowledged by the Leaf Village in their way to defend him from Nagato's assault as well as his success against him is something that would work for that possible aspect.

 

 

It WAS true, What Naruto meant when she was lying to herself was that she felt nothing for Sasuke anymore which their confrontation afterward confirmed. I have always stated this Sakura is not an actress that can "fake" what she feels at the drop of a hat. She always expressed what she felt  if she is not in ""tsundere mode" and that blushing face she made when she confessed to Naruto doesn't look false does it? And adding on top of that, I have always argued this too. Is Sakura and Naruto's relationship so shallow and Sakura takes it for granted to the point she has to stoop to a "fake confession" just to get Naruto on a leash and do her bidding? Is that har little their friendship means? TO THE BOTH OF THEM???  that is the the question we must all ask are selves when thinking on this scenario. Is Sakura emotionally manipulating Naruto?  Has she EVER emotionally manipulated Naruto?

 

Well, the "canon" seems to imply what you're suggesting that she just manipulated Naruto all the time to get him to do what she was wanting him to do, even if Naruto was also trying to save Sasuke for his own reasons, besides just to keep his promise to Sakura, which is a goddamn shame if you ask me that it had to be seen as shallow because of the stupid "logic" of The Last and other crap to come after it to make it feel as if Naruto's genuine feelings for Sakura were nothing and neither were her budding feelings for him,

[Phantom_999]

Well that's true. BUT BEFORE THAT,  when the last didin't exist, has Saukra ever emotionally manipulated Naruto? I mean that is the canon explanation, but ignore that because that came after the fact. To talk about the development beween Naruto and Sakura we have ignore "The Last" because it it is the contradictory headcanon of Hinata worshipers as to why Naruto fell in love with Hinata. And if we always keep that movie in mind in these discussions, it will lead to nowhere. My point is has Sakura ever used Naruto's feelings for her to get what she wants, before "The Last"? Besides if that truly were the case, I don't think she would have felt as broken up about as she did at the time Sai told her that she ended up hurting Naruto far ,more than she ever imagined and that he loves her. Anyways there are no two ways about, and as far as I'm concerned if Sakura did not feel that way about Naruto she would have rejected him as she had always done in the past. That is just straight up fact. 

 

My point is overall, it doesn't make sense for Sakura to confess to Naruto if she DIDN'T actually mean it because that was not even what she came to him for as the rest of her team knows. They were suppose to be talking about they can't wait any longer on Naruto trying to bring back Sasuke since the latter's actions have escalated to "international affairs and concerns". She was also blushing when she embraced Naruto wasn't she? Plus  Naruto didn't reject her confessuion or advances until she brought up Sasuke is even a concern for her anymore. He wanted to know why Sakura would just suddenly confess to him and say Sasuke, that as far as he knew Sakura still yearned for three whole years and that she wanted to bring home as much as Naruto, means nothing to her. It was all strange and confusing for him. Not to mention if Sakura WAS confessing to manipulate Naruto she is outright contradicting the development and realzation that she just had.

Edited by Phantom_999, 11 July 2020 - 04:25 PM.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

That "fake" confession is more heartfelt and real than... What we got. NaruHina is so bad that Even Twilight is making fun of it.

[Phantom_999]

Don't forget Nardo was oblivious to Hinata even until half way into the movie It took a genjutsu to brain wash him into loving Hinata. He didn't even realize his feelings naturally like with other couples.

Edited by Phantom_999, 12 July 2020 - 05:09 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Don't forget Nardo was obl,ivious to Hinata even unti half way into the movie It took a genjutsu to brain wash him into loving Hinat. He didn't even realize his feelings naturally likw with other couples.

Even then, it (and the novel even outright says it, IIRC) was more a feeling of guilt and obligation than "love".

[Phantom_999]

Which makes it even worse, don't you think?

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Well that's true. BUT BEFORE THAT,  when the last didin't exist, has Saukra ever emotionally manipulated Naruto? I mean that is the canon explanation, but ignore that because that came after the fact. To talk about the development beween Naruto and Sakura we have ignore "The Last" because it it is the contradictory headcanon of Hinata worshipers as to why Naruto fell in love with Hinata. And if we always keep that movie in mind in these discussions, it will lead to nowhere. My point is has Sakura ever used Naruto's feelings for her to get what she wants, before "The Last"? Besides if that truly were the case, I don't think she would have felt as broken up about as she did at the time Sai told her that she ended up hurting Naruto far ,more than she ever imagined and that he loves her. Anyways there are no two ways about, and as far as I'm concerned if Sakura did not feel that way about Naruto she would have rejected him as she had always done in the past. That is just straight up fact. 

 

My point is overall, it doesn't make sense for Sakura to confess to Naruto if she DIDN'T actually mean it because that was not even what she came to him for as the rest of her team knows. They were suppose to be talking about they can't wait any longer on Naruto trying to bring back Sasuke since the latter's actions have escalated to "international affairs and concerns". She was also blushing when she embraced Naruto wasn't she? Plus  Naruto didn't reject her confessuion or advances until she brought up Sasuke is even a concern for her anymore. He wanted to know why Sakura would just suddenly confess to him and say Sasuke, that as far as he knew Sakura still yearned for three whole years and that she wanted to bring home as much as Naruto, means nothing to her. It was all strange and confusing for him. Not to mention if Sakura WAS confessing to manipulate Naruto she is outright contradicting the development and realzation that she just had.

 

I knew what you mean, I just was establishing what the people who made the supposed canon want us to believe even if those of us with brains aren't brain-dead sheep and idiots to know how full of **** they are.

 

 

Even then, it (and the novel even outright says it, IIRC) was more a feeling of guilt and obligation than "love".

 

Yeah, and even the fact Kishimoto himself has come out to say the only reason they're even STILL married is their kids, rather than anything else. XP

 

 

Which makes it even worse, don't you think?

 

Bingo, bango, bongo!!

[Illnevergiveup3]

It WAS true, What Naruto meant when she was lying to herself was that she felt nothing for Sasuke anymore which their confrontation afterward confirmed. I have always stated this Sakura is not an actress that can "fake" what she feels at the drop of a hat. She always expressed what she felt  if she is not in ""tsundere mode" and that blushing face she made when she confessed to Naruto doesn't look false does it? And adding on top of that, I have always argued this too. Is Sakura and Naruto's relationship so shallow and Sakura takes it for granted to the point she has to stoop to a "fake confession" just to get Naruto on a leash and do her bidding? Is that har little their friendship means? TO THE BOTH OF THEM???  that is the the question we must all ask are selves when thinking on this scenario. Is Sakura emotionally manipulating Naruto?  Has she EVER emotionally manipulated Naruto?

facts.

[Phantom_999]

 

I knew what you mean, I just was establishing what the people who made the supposed canon want us to believe even if those of us with brains aren't brain-dead sheep and idiots to know how full of **** they are.

 

Oh yes definitely that was the canon that anyone that WANTS NH to win beyond a doubt will believe. But obviously the movie had so many holes in its plot it is like a strainer with anything and everything that is story consistency falling through. And like I stated before, that god forsaken movie does a disservice even to NH.

 

"Nardo and Hinata are childhood friends it said. Nardo did not even want to do something simple and considerate like walking Hinata home, it said. Nardo was brainwashed into loving Hinata, It said. Nardo was winning Hinata back from a love rival, even though that was what Sakura accused him of doing with Sasuke over her, it said. And that was a shallow reason for Naruto to love Sakura and he should give up on her, it said." But that is alright for his TRUE LOVE HINATA, it said. Because, HYPOCRISY FOR THE WIN IF IT'S TRUE LOVE!!! But I have no sympathies to give to any Hinata cultist that realized this. THIS IS THE CANON THEY WANTED. So I don't give a damn about their complaints.

Edited by Phantom_999, 13 July 2020 - 05:21 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Oh yes definitely that was the canon that anyone that WANTS NH to win beyond a doubt will believe. But obviously the movie had so many holes in its plo,t it is like a grater with anything and everything that is story consistency falling through. And like I stated before, that god forsaken movie does a disservice even to NH.

 

"Nardo and Hinata are childhood friends it said. Nardo did not even want to do something simple and considerate like walking Hinata home it said. Nardo was brainwashed into loving Hinata, It said. Nardo was winning Hinata back from a love rival, even though that was what Sakura accused him of doing with Sasuke over her, it said. And that was a shallow reason for Naruto to love Sakura and he should give up on her, it said." But that is alright for his TRUE LOVE HINATA, it said. Because HYPOCRISY FOR THE WIN if it's TRUE LOVE!!! But I have no sympathies to give to any Hinata cultist that realized this. THIS IS THE CANON THEY WANTED. So I don't give a damn about their complaints.

 

Pretty much, man.

[ree]

About the fake conffesion, Kishimoto in the first interview, after finishing Nardo, he said Sakura would fight against Sasuke, but his editor don't let him do it. I don't know if we star to take everything from the last 2 arc will find a lots of kitten, so personally Naruto ends in pain Arc.

[Phantom_999]

Oh, thanks for the info.This, along side SEVERAL issues where Kishi wanted to do somthing or thought about doing something but was told to backtrack by his editors makes you wonder how much of this is actually Kishi's writing, and how much of it was him trying to play crowd pleaser to the audience and to his editors.

Edited by Phantom_999, 15 July 2020 - 04:26 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

About the fake confession, Kishimoto in the first interview, after finishing Nardo, he said Sakura would fight against Sasuke, but his editor didn't let him do it. I don't know if we start to take everything from the last 2 arc will find a lots of kitten, so personally Naruto ends in pain Arc.

Oh, so I and many others were right that was probably suppose to happen, and again the editor went, "Wait! She is suppose to get together with Sasuke to appease the large (at least in comparison to their nH one) Japanese SS fanbase. Also by fighting alongside Naruto during the final battle it would also make her seem like the Heroine; which she still was at the time. When I/we want Hinata to be the Heroine to appeal to the Western/American fans. This can't happen."

 

Kishimoto for the first nine to ten years of Naruto had Yahagi -an experience editor- as his editor for those nine to ten years when the average was two to three years. He was behind a lot of the ideas of early Naruto that led to it popularity for good and ill. He left right before the Pein arc. Then the editor of the Pein arc order Kishi to leave out Tsunade fight with Pein, had Hinata fight Pein, and then proclaimed that Hinata was now the heroine. Kishimoto got into a fight with his editor and got the support of the other mangaka. After that he was in constant conflict with his editors -over keeping Sakura as the heroine while they would constantly gaslight that Hinata was who the fans wanted- to the point over the next five to six years he had about eight to nine editors over that time when again the average was two to three years per editor.

 

Oh, thanks for the info.This ,along side SEVERAL issues where Kishi wanted to do something or thought about doing something but was told to backtrack by his editors makes you wonder how much of this is actually Kishi's writing, and how much of it was him trying to play crowd pleaser to the audience and to his editors.

Writers often are writing to their editors over writing for themselves or their customers; since the editor is the one that ultimately decides if what they are writing even goes to print. His first editor in a interview after the ending said he doesn't stand up for himself enough and does what his editors says too often. So he could have fought more and may have did. Again he had several editors over a very short period of time. But he was eventually worn down when they convinced him it what the fans wanted. 

 

Also I would bring up that whole destine princess he went on about for ten chapter was likely to make sure his editor literally couldn't pull what they did in Naruto.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 July 2020 - 04:48 AM.

[Nate River]

Oh, so I and many others were right that was probably suppose to happen, and again the editor went, "Wait! She is suppose to get together with Sasuke to appease the large (at least in comparison to their nH one) Japanese SS fanbase. Also by fighting alongside Naruto during the final battle it would also make her seem like the Heroine; which she still was at the time. When I/we want Hinata to be the Heroine to appeal to the Western/American fans. This can't happen."

 

Kishimoto for the first nine to ten years of Naruto had Yahagi -an experience editor- as his editor for those nine to ten years when the average was two to three years. He was behind a lot of the ideas of early Naruto that led to it popularity for good and ill. He left right before the Pein arc. Then the editor of the Pein arc order Kishi to leave out Tsunade fight with Pein, had Hinata fight Pein, and then proclaimed that Hinata was now the heroine. Kishimoto got into a fight with his editor and got the support of the other mangaka. After that he was in constant conflict with his editors -over keeping Sakura as the heroine while they would constantly gaslight that Hinata was who the fans wanted- to the point over the next five to six years he had about eight to nine editors over that time when again the average was two to three years per editor.

 

Writers often are writing to their editors over writing for themselves or their customers; since the editor is the one that ultimately decides if what they are writing even goes to print. His first editor in a interview after the ending said he doesn't stand up for himself enough and does what his editors says too often. So he could have fought more and may have did. Again he had several editors over a very short period of time. But he was eventually worn down when they convinced him it what the fans wanted. 

 

Also I would bring up that whole destine princess he went on about for ten chapter was likely to make sure his editor literally couldn't pull what they did in Naruto.

 

There were rumors for years he wanted to be done with Naruto and write something else. Maybe he just didn't care anymore.

[ree]

 
There were rumors for years he wanted to be done with Naruto and write something else. Maybe he just didn't care anymore.

I remember an interview where Kishimoto said something like Naruto was about to finish and they, the Jump and Pierrot, wanted he continued with the history, it's was around the pain Arc. So when Naruto start to fall. I think what happened here was something big, and really bad.

Edited by ree, 14 July 2020 - 09:12 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Oh, so I and many others were right that was probably suppose to happen, and again the editor went, "Wait! She is suppose to get together with Sasuke to appease the large (at least in comparison to their nH one) Japanese SS fanbase. Also by fighting alongside Naruto during the final battle it would also make her seem like the Heroine; which she still was at the time. When I/we want Hinata to be the Heroine to appeal to the Western/American fans. This can't happen."

 

Kishimoto for the first nine to ten years of Naruto had Yahagi -an experience editor- as his editor for those nine to ten years when the average was two to three years. He was behind a lot of the ideas of early Naruto that led to it popularity for good and ill. He left right before the Pein arc. Then the editor of the Pein arc order Kishi to leave out Tsunade fight with Pein, had Hinata fight Pein, and then proclaimed that Hinata was now the heroine. Kishimoto got into a fight with his editor and got the support of the other mangaka. After that he was in constant conflict with his editors -over keeping Sakura as the heroine while they would constantly gaslight that Hinata was who the fans wanted- to the point over the next five to six years he had about eight to nine editors over that time when again the average was two to three years per editor.

 

Writers often are writing to their editors over writing for themselves or their customers; since the editor is the one that ultimately decides if what they are writing even goes to print. His first editor in a interview after the ending said he doesn't stand up for himself enough and does what his editors says too often. So he could have fought more and may have did. Again he had several editors over a very short period of time. But he was eventually worn down when they convinced him it what the fans wanted. 

 

Also I would bring up that whole destine princess he went on about for ten chapter was likely to make sure his editor literally couldn't pull what they did in Naruto.

 

That is exactly what went wrong. He didn't stick up for the integrity of his work enough. While the editors are indeed the one that green light the writing and they have the say so for the publishment of the work, I hear that some authors in Weekly Shonen jump put their foot down and mostly "do things the way they want" such as Oda.

 

While the destined Princess thing in Samurai 8 is to completely seal off all possibilities for the editors to not pull off the same BS that they did for Naruto, At the same time I feel it wouldn't have been necesssary though. The idea worked not because he was beating the audience over the head that Ann and Hachi were destined for each other, but that Kishi as an author finally stood his ground firmly and said, "No this is how I want it". He most definitely realizes now that if he had done that back then for Naruto, it probably wouldn't have gotten the back lash it accumulated now.  Even the writing for S8 brought up a potential love rival and love triangle but it was resolved pretty quickly. Again it was just probably lack of hindsight that he only gained after experiencing the negative effects Naruto had gone through for just playing yes man to his editors, but I don't see what was so hard to do that in Naruto as well. Naruto even had the advantage in that Sasuke was not even shown to have any positive relationship with Sakura at the late points in the story, like the other Samurai dude was with Ann. And while he may not have understood why Hinata was as popular as she was, the fact remains that he was the one writing those romantic moments between Sakura and Naruto. If he had really given up and just conceded Hinata was Naruto's true love, he wouldn't have written in Naruto saying to his own ressurected father that Sakura was "sort of" his girlfriend.     

Edited by Phantom_999, 24 October 2020 - 02:01 PM.

[Derock]

As I said before, he should had put his foot down and cursed out at those editors. They wanted their 2 cents and they got it. Unfortunately, that puts the franchise in jeopardy because of those decisions.

[rikakim94]

Is this proof that the naruto brand is no longer valuable to the Japanese audience?

The theme park looks very deserted and empty.

 

   

Edited by rikakim94, 16 July 2020 - 01:42 AM.