103 replies to this topic

[psycho666]

I was agnostic for quite awhile in my younger years, after a long recovery of being raised a Christian, but currently I am an atheist, I also believe that I was an atheist for a very long time before I even knew it.

[Paradox Jast]

I think there's been a massive increase in agnosticism/atheism in the past couple of decades.

It's hard to say why, but as I remarked to some friends recently, I think it has a lot to do with scientific advances in the past hundred to two hundred years, and people are really sick of wars sparked from religious beliefs. Enough, already.

I'm the type of person that would like to believe there is a greater power at work, but the double standard is just too much to ignore. People used to be too afraid to voice their opinions long ago for fear of being called an outcast and shunned by society, even if their peers didn't believe either. There is no longer that worry, and it's starting to show.

[Illjwamh]

I think there's been a massive increase in agnosticism/atheism in the past couple of decades.

I can only hope it continues.

There's also been a massive resurgence of Christianity, which might very well be a response/reaction in a similar vain to the counter-reformation.

Atheist/humanist and yes I do have morals (can't believe how many times I get "How do you have morals as an atheist?")

I know, I hate that. It's one of the only things that really bothers me.

[Sakura Blossoms]

I also remember watching a documentary on either the born-agains or evangelicals (can't remember which), and almost all of the members interviewed were victims of child-abuse. It seemed to me that these people were simply lost most of their lives, and needed someone or something to look up to. I've also noticed that people who seem to have almost TOO good a time fear dying and going to hell, so use Jesus to repent (I know we're talking about religion in general, but most of what you are refering to seems to involve Christianity and the U.S).

Anyone find it odd that religous people promote traditional family values yet many of the biblical heroes had many lovers and would sacrifice their own offspring?

I was raised Catholic, and then became a practitioning Christian, until I just could not deal with the Church's ever present hypocritical ways and teachings. They say that God loves everyone, no matter what race, creed, skin colour, or sexuality. Then they turn right around, and say that we will all burn in the fiery pits of hell, for some of those same things.

Then the whole 'Revelations' thing has always just bothered me, as how can they say that God loves everyone, and that everyone is welcome into the Kingdom of Heaven, yet on the 'Day of Judgment' only a select few will be allowed to pass through the Gates of Heaven, while the rest of the world which will be billions of people, will be left behind to suffer and burn.

It just always seemed that Christianity's God was a bit...bipolar. All love, peace, joy, and happiness one minute, then all fire, brimstone, and rejection the next. It just bothered me the way that the Church has depicted God over all the many many centuries, and the fact that they can look stuff like the actual real existence of Dinosaurs straight in the eye, and continue to deny their existence in favour of the story of Eve tempting Adam, and damning the entire human race by her actions.

Do you understand the scale of abuse, disrespect, hate, and anger females have had to endure over the centuries because of this story?

And so, I willingly chose to leave my Catholic and Christian upbringing behind, and am now just a spiritual person. I call no major or minor religion my own. I just believe that there is a God, and that He/She is a loving God, and that all souls are welcome in the spiritual realm, and that our souls have all been on many spiritual journeys, being reborn many times as we make our way through the spiritual universe.

And also everything that I have stated here in this post is my opinion, and just what *I* feel about things, and is in no way a personal attack against anyone else and their beliefs. It's all just how I feel about things, and how I've found peace and happiness through my own spiritual beliefs.

[FullmetalNinja25]

Even though I am a Christian I do frown upon some of (ok alot of :-P) the things they teach us. I'll start with the 7 Deadly Sins, the things they tell us we will all go to hell for and why I think they are all bull****.

Lust-There cannot be love without lust.
Gluttony-What is Gluttony exactly? Excessive eating? What is there some kind of limit now?
Envy-Everyone experiences this in some form, if you point me out a person that doesn't I'll eat my own socks.
Pride-If we didn't have Pride we'd all be emo.
Sloth-Laziness is a sin? Bull****.
Wrath-Well this one I can't really dispute....still bull****.
Greed-Read Envy.

[jim1982]

Even though I am a Christian I do frown upon some of (ok alot of :-P) the things they teach us. I'll start with the 7 Deadly Sins, the things they tell us we will all go to hell for and why I think they are all bull****.

Lust-There cannot be love without lust.
Gluttony-What is Gluttony exactly? Excessive eating? What is there some kind of limit now?
Envy-Everyone experiences this in some form, if you point me out a person that doesn't I'll eat my own socks.
Pride-If we didn't have Pride we'd all be emo.
Sloth-Laziness is a sin? Bull****.
Wrath-Well this one I can't really dispute....still bull****.
Greed-Read Envy.

I know the sins do seem well questionable but i see a point to them at the time they were written down and some of now.

Lust-.Don't sleep with everyone
Gluttony-Don't pig out all the time
Envy-Be thankful for what ya got
Pride-Don't get full of yourself
Sloth-Don't just sit around
Wrath-Don't attack everyone for every little thing
Greed-Don't try to own everything

more of a guideline I would say.

[Dormin]

Even though I am a Christian I do frown upon some of (ok alot of :-P) the things they teach us. I'll start with the 7 Deadly Sins, the things they tell us we will all go to hell for and why I think they are all bull****.

Lust-There cannot be love without lust.
Gluttony-What is Gluttony exactly? Excessive eating? What is there some kind of limit now?
Envy-Everyone experiences this in some form, if you point me out a person that doesn't I'll eat my own socks.
Pride-If we didn't have Pride we'd all be emo.
Sloth-Laziness is a sin? Bull****.
Wrath-Well this one I can't really dispute....still bull****.
Greed-Read Envy.

I think you oversimplfied this, im a jew and I still think these church guys nailed the spot on this part.

My own belief is that the 7 sins are atrubuites that everyone of has . we can't never get rid of them because that's part of the human nature.
The point is to never let these things consume you. least they will make the diractions in your life instead of you.

My own interpetation of the sins:
Gluttony: for me it isn't just food, it's anything Materialistic, the desire to have as much of anything, more toys, more cloths, more of anything.
Lust: Indeed, lust is a part of love but what about just lust without love? that's what I think this sin is about.
Sloth: besides being lazy physically but also emotinely, what will you say about the bystander effect? or the holocoust when people knew about what happned in the camps and did nothing about it? that Sloth for me
Greed and Envy- Like youi said, everyone experiance it, but it dosn't mean it's a good thing. and we must control these emotions.
Wrath- hrmmm once again, it's fine to be angry from time time, but don't get worked out on everything like the hulk or somthin'
Pride - Hrmmm pride is such a two sided dice. On one hand without it we will all be spinless worms (as you allredy said ), but on the other hand, our pride can be the death of us, litterly...

In Jaudisem we have a saying which goes "gibor a koveish es yitzro" which means "A true hero is the one who control his desires" which I think is the same deal as the seven sins, it's all about control.

[Sir Whirly]

I believe if there is a god (and a big IF) that he has nothing to do with us, and that we are all running around like the apes we are, screaming whos god is better. Just my belief though. I try to good things cause its the right thing to do, and not because I am afraid of burning in some mythical fiery pit.

[Illjwamh]

I try to good things cause its the right thing to do, and not because I am afraid of burning in some mythical fiery pit.

Hear hear!

[Zero BD]

lol, I accidentally clicked the christian vote before I saw a catholic one. I sometimes forget about the wide rift between the vatican and the other churches, even though they are still believers of christ and members of christendom. <---wtf is wrong with the leaders of these things? now I don't mean to insult anyone, its just when I think sometimes I say, "can't we all just get along?" And then reality hits me in the face with things like the crusades, the spanish inquisition, the spanish conquistadors, the witch trials in america and not to mention the all those religious nuts who do things in the name of a god. the only thing that bothers me in my religion of catholicism is the bible. specifically revelations, how could the vatican approve allowing the book of some insane religious/political person into it? well, I never did consider revelations to be 'officially' part of the bible, so... who cares.

[Nikko]

Jewish, but I converted from Irish Catholic. Don't ask, just believe that it didn't go over to well with my father.

[BlackLightning]

Agnostic, 'nuff said.

[Paradox Jast]

I honestly think within the next hundred years or so we're going to see a greater shift towards a... merger of sorts... of the world's religions. When that happens, the amount of agnostics out there is going to skyrocket. If religious fanatics start to increase in numbers as well as a result, I think they'll be a definite minority compared to the amount of agnostics.

Agnosticism/Atheism will most likely grow in two ways... people of our generations who don't really care about religion anymore will not bother to strap their child with one religion or another, and let them eventually choose what they want to believe... which in my honest opinion, is how it should be done. Humans were given this thing called 'free will' that Catholicism in particular likes to preach about, yet I'm not allowed to choose if I want to be a Catholic? Don't make me laugh. We're force-fed the sacraments from the moment we can talk, especially if you go to Catholic school, like I did.

I find it funny how I remember growing up, going to Catholic school, Agnosticism was looked at as a dirty word right alongside atheism. Many times they were lumped together, I didn't know until high school what the true definition of agnosticism really was.

Atheism = The 'understanding' (some athiests get upset with the word belief) that there is no greater power at work.

Agnostisim = The 'belief/understanding' that there is a greater power at work, but it is undefined and cannot be constrained to a simple definition.

I grew up Catholic. I believed in Jesus. I think a part of me still does. But I can't look anyone in the eye and say that the God from the Old and New Testaments is the same one, or that Noah and the Ark happened, or that Moses parted a sea as described. Even with Jesus... I don't intend this to be mean or slandering at all... but maybe he was just the David Copperfield of his time?

*shrug* I dunno. Religious debates, talks, fact checking, whatever... they can go on, and on, and on...

I think a big final push towards agnosticism and atheism will hit when humans start moving away from this planet and able to visit other places in space. When we can watch evolution in real time. Things like that.



Well... if the religious wars dont kill us all first, anyway.

[Kyuudaime]

Atheist, that sums me up.

[shadow_Uzumaki]

Catholic, but it's only because I was born into a Catholic family. I would rather be an agnostic because I believe there is such a higher power at work, but I am open to understand any religion. If I have a kid, like Paradox says, I'd rather just let him/her choose his/her own beliefs. From my understanding, the more you force someone to be in a religion, the more reluctant that person becomes about the religion.

[MagusKyros]

I study the Vedas, more or less you can call me an aspiring spiritual phiilosopher.

You can call me Hindu if you want, but that would be incorrect. I don't associate myself with "religious" name like Christian, Muslim, or Hindu or anything. They are pointless and all it does is cause dissension among people.

For me, I used to be as good as an Agnostic, though I ran along with being called Hindu. I believed in God, but couldn't put my finger on it anything. I almost went athiest due to certain situations of my life; however, I ran into some basic Vedic books, and ever since then, I don't feel sorry and I have never been more satisfied in my life. They explain everything they could about anything, and they do it rationally (a word that isn't often used to describe "religion").

I would recommend checking out ISKCON (International Society for Krishna Consciousness, popularily known as the Hare Krishnas) and pick up some of their basic books. They don't cost much and sometimes they give it out for free. They do seem like a fanatical group of people, but you'd be surprised at how sophisticated their philosophy is, and how normal the people are.

The only thing that's a cause for concern in the Hare Krishna movement is that some of their texts appear apparently sexist (which isn't) and they have a bad history (which isn't as bad as the media makes it out to be).

Edited by MagusKyros, 12 December 2008 - 12:24 AM.

[Destiny]

I don't believe any other religion is going to hell because they believe something different. I think people pick the religion that they can best adhere to and feel most comfortable in. When you're in a religion you like it makes worshipping God easier. And it makes seeing God in everyone a TON easier. (Which for me is a necessity) I personally am a Catholic, but a lot of my friends say I'm too out there to be just Catholic. I don't believe Heaven is an actual place and I don't believe God is a "him." When I here we were made in the likeness of God I think of that as our SOULS were made in the likeness of God's. And that's why I believe that everyone can get into the after life and why we are all called to love one another.

I use church/worship/anything with more than one person to understand that that force is in everyone and that community is also important in understanding the greater power that is God.

I'm Catholic because I believe Jesus died for me, I believe that the holy spirit is in all of us and I believe we can all obtain "heaven" or an after life (which is so different from person to person).

I also think it's important to realize humans are ... well... human. They make mistakes and they are apt to put their own interpretation in everything including the bible (oh no I'm a heretic!). Like how the writers are harsh upon women, that is human nature at the time. (Though, to throw this out here, Jesus DID talk to women and forgave them just as he forgave the men... which was unheard of at the time) What's a very real example, how about this. So in the old testament it told the people to not eat swine. Why do we eat pig now? Because swine, at the time, caused a LOT of disease, most hooved animals cause a lot of disease due to bacteria. These diseases are curable today.

Anyway there's my cute little explanation of my religion/belief system. Please, don't be rude.

I'd like to leave you with a quick quote from a Christian Cherokee (who incorporates Cherokee beliefs with his Christian beliefs... he's amazing I love readin his works. This book just made me want to be an Nurse Practitioner even more) "Modern Scientists are swimming in a vertitable soup of miracles, and most of them don't realize it. Scientists have their Gods - matter, energy, space-time--and they ascribe to the qualities that are as miraculous as anything that religionists impute to the Divine. For example scientists speak of eternalness and immutability of natural laws, the indestuctability of matter and energy, and the space time invariance and perpetuity of physical laws. In religious context these would be attributes to the Absolute." (Coyote Healing By: Lewis Mehl-Madrona)

Edited by Destiny, 12 December 2008 - 02:21 AM.

[Tsunade]

First of all I refuse to vote in that poll because for one, Catholicism is a sect Christianity. Secondly if you don't like what I say too bad I am not going to fight you about it. Thirdly I am not the most religious person. I even b*tch about going to church.

Yes, I was born in to a Roman Catholic family. I went to Catholic school, I took religion courses in primary and secondary school. AS WELL AS in University.

I believe that Jesus is the son of God and he died for our sins. And he will come again.

God is not bipolar only gets pissed off when you go against his commandments. BUT HE WILL forgive you if you admit what you have done is wrong and changed your ways.

God has no sex. The only reason why people use the term "HE", like I am now, is a way of referring towards his being.

Muslims and Jews are my brothers and sisters. They believe in the same God, they are fine by me. And for those that choose other religions, that is your choice.

I also think it's important to realize humans are ... well... human. They make mistakes and they are apt to put their own interpretation in everything including the bible (oh no I'm a heretic!). Like how the writers are harsh upon women, that is human nature at the time. (Though, to throw this out here, Jesus DID talk to women and forgave them just as he forgave the men... which was unheard of at the time)

Agreed. Plus woman have only gain rights in the past 40-50 years.

Anyway there's my cute little explanation of my religion/belief system. Please, don't be rude.

I'd like to leave you with a quick quote from a Christian Cherokee (who incorporates Cherokee beliefs with his Christian beliefs... he's amazing I love readin his works. This book just made me want to be an Nurse Practitioner even more) "Modern Scientists are swimming in a vertitable soup of miracles, and most of them don't realize it. Scientists have their Gods - matter, energy, space-time--and they ascribe to the qualities that are as miraculous as anything that religionists impute to the Divine. For example scientists speak of eternalness and immutability of natural laws, the indestuctability of matter and energy, and the space time invariance and perpetuity of physical laws. In religious context these would be attributes to the Absolute." (Coyote Healing By: Lewis Mehl-Madrona)

Destiny, that quote reminded me about this one joke a priest had told me once.


A scientist went up to God and said "God I don't think we need you watching over us anymore." And God responded "Oh really? Would you like to prove it to me?"

The scientist replied "Okay, how about we make a human?" and God agreed to the challenge.

So God brings up some dirt and starts making the shape of a human and the scientist is about to do the same thing and God turns to him and says "Make your own dirt first."

[Derock]

I was raised Catholic, and then became a practitioning Christian, until I just could not deal with the Church's ever present hypocritical ways and teachings. They say that God loves everyone, no matter what race, creed, skin colour, or sexuality. Then they turn right around, and say that we will all burn in the fiery pits of hell, for some of those same things.

Then the whole 'Revelations' thing has always just bothered me, as how can they say that God loves everyone, and that everyone is welcome into the Kingdom of Heaven, yet on the 'Day of Judgment' only a select few will be allowed to pass through the Gates of Heaven, while the rest of the world which will be billions of people, will be left behind to suffer and burn.

It just always seemed that Christianity's God was a bit...bipolar. All love, peace, joy, and happiness one minute, then all fire, brimstone, and rejection the next. It just bothered me the way that the Church has depicted God over all the many many centuries, and the fact that they can look stuff like the actual real existence of Dinosaurs straight in the eye, and continue to deny their existence in favour of the story of Eve tempting Adam, and damning the entire human race by her actions.

Do you understand the scale of abuse, disrespect, hate, and anger females have had to endure over the centuries because of this story?

And so, I willingly chose to leave my Catholic and Christian upbringing behind, and am now just a spiritual person. I call no major or minor religion my own. I just believe that there is a God, and that He/She is a loving God, and that all souls are welcome in the spiritual realm, and that our souls have all been on many spiritual journeys, being reborn many times as we make our way through the spiritual universe.

And also everything that I have stated here in this post is my opinion, and just what *I* feel about things, and is in no way a personal attack against anyone else and their beliefs. It's all just how I feel about things, and how I've found peace and happiness through my own spiritual beliefs.

You basically summoned up exactly how I felt about my religious beliefs, Shauna.

As much as I do believe that there is a God, back then when I was Catholic, everything bother me. From kneeling in front of statues (isn't the First Commandment said "Thou shall not make false gods"? Even though, the statue is a religious figure -Jesus for example-, why the hell am I kneeling in front of a big statue of him?), to Confession... OH My GOD!! I hate Confession/Penance! I just hated it! Every single month of my grammar school years, I had to go to church, stand behind the darn box, and confess my sins to the priest who basically wants to hear my business of what did I do wrong and I had to repeat "Our Father", "Hail Mary", "Glory Be" prayers like how many times! And then, it came to a certain point when I had to go, nothing bad happened during that month and I had to make something up. Why do I have to confess to a stranger instead I can pray at night ask forgiveness through prayer?

And yes, I agree with you on the Book of Revelations. I glance at most of it and it scared me. (Oh, and Adam and Eve/Creation story is just a regular fictional story like anything else in reality. Actually, mostly all of the Bible has less truth because majority of it came from the word of mouth and wasn't properly recorded.)