31585 replies to this topic

[VanitasDS76491]

But Kiba and Naruto show no signs of being friends. And that's the point, you may think Kiba is a better option than Sasuke but truth is he only has a bond with the latter. I want him to be best friends with Kiba but they don't know eachother that well.. The only K11 besides his team he's had moments with is Shikamaru but it's not enough.
With that sunshine and extrovert personality he's supposed to have, he should be swimming in friends.

And yet he isn't, actually my head canon naruto and kiba are best friends like brothers and he's not obsessed with sasuke in fact he hates sasuke and is already a couple with Sakura. Also naruto really doesn't care about Garra, since correct me if I'm wrong naruto said how can I be hokage if I can't save one friend. Even though he just saved Garrard two weeks ago during that arc. Our hero everyone.

[Phantom_999]

In my opinion it's one thing to be someone's best friend, it's another to obsess over them like they are the only one in your life that matters, AS CLEARLY is the case with Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi is saying that they have bonds with others and care about their friends but he did a piss poor job job at portraying it as Naruto and Sasuke only obsess about each other even though there is no feasible reason to. They NEVER bonded, even in part I so how they are even best friends/spiritual brothers doesn't even make sense in the context. Kishimoto, when I think about couldn't eve portray his main core THEME PROPERLY. And he expects that NAruto and Sasuke's bond is believable? Especially when they don't put anyone else on the same level of importance? well in Sasuke's case, anyone who is alive, technically speaking. If you think about it Naruto and Sasuke were rivals only, never friends, their relationship in Part I was about Naruto trying to outdo Sasuke then Sasuke feeling the same in reverse after he realized he still was not even close to beating Itachi and witnessing NAruto go toe to toe with Gaara. they did not even part on amicable terms at the end of their fight and NEVER DID throughout part II. Now taking all of this into consideration can you TRULY call them friends?

 

To put this into perspective, did anyone here read/ watch Shaman King to the end? To those that do, remember how Lyserg left the group to pursue his revenge against Hao? And yet Yoh still visits him on multiple occasions, and while Yoh may not accept or even like Lyserg's choices, he understands he cannot convince Lyserg otherwise because it's his decision to make. THAT IS A true friend, not this idiotic writing here in Naruto, where Naruto is all like "Sasuke you're doing this this against your will and I don't accept your choice, so you must agree with me or I'm dragging your @$$ back home with me!!!!! Where as Sasuke is like "Naruto stop following me or I will kill you!!!! In fact because you're my best friend, I WILL kill you so the pain will make me stronger!!!!" That doesn't sound like friendship to me. Does anyone here think otherwise?

Edited by Phantom_999, 09 April 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[Catra]

And yet he isn't, actually my head canon naruto and kiba are best friends like brothers

heh fox and the hound.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

In my opinion it's one thing to be someone's best friend, it's another to obsess over them like they are the only one in your life that matters, AS CLEARLY is the case with Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi is saying that they have bonds with others and care about their friends but he did a piss poor job job at portraying it as Naruto and Sasuke only obsess about each other even though there is no feasible reason to. They NEVER bonded, even in part I so how they are even best friends/spiritual brothers doesn't even make sense in the context. Kishimoto, when I think about couldn't eve portray his main core THEME PROPERLY. And he expects that NAruto and Sasuke's bond is believable? Especially when they don't put anyone else on the same level of importance? well in Sasuke's case, anyone who is alive, technically speaking. If you think about it Naruto and Sasuke were rivals only, never friends, their relationship in Part I was about Naruto trying to outdo Sasuke then Sasuke feeling the same in reverse after he realized he still was not even close to beating Itachi and witnessing NAruto go toe to toe with Gaara. they did not even part on amicable terms at the end of their fight and NEVER DID throughout part II. Now taking all of this into consideration can you TRULY call them friends?

 

To put this into perspective, did anyone here read/ watch Shaman King to the end? To those that do, remember how Lyserg left the group to pursue his revenge against Hao? And yet Yoh still visits him on multiple occasions, and while Yoh may not accept or even like Lyserg's choices, he understands he cannot convince Lyserg otherwise because it's his decision to make. THAT IS A true friend, not this idiotic writing here in Naruto, where Naruto is all like "Sasuke you're doing this this against your will and I don't accept your choice, so you must agree with me or I'm dragging your @$$ back home with me!!!!! Where as Sasuke is like "Naruto stop following me or I will kill you!!!! In fact because you're my best friend, I WILL kill you so the pain will make me stronger!!!!" That doesn't sound like friendship to me. Does anyone here think otherwise?

That seems to be a consistent thing in Naruto with Kishi - portraying obsessions as "love", "friendship", and so on.

[Tiller]

The problem with Sasuke is he is the villain. Even if you do want to "redeem" him, he has to suffer for what he did in some way. He didn't, not only is he never punished for his actions, he is rewarded. And why? Because Naruto can't stand Sasuke having to face up to the pain he has caused others.

 

The message of the story, is terrible.

Edited by Tiller, 09 April 2017 - 05:55 PM.

[sushi.]

The problem with Sasuke is he is the villain. Even if you do want to "redeem" him, he has to suffer for what he did in some way. He didn't, not only is he never punished for his actions, he is rewarded. And why? Because Naruto can't stand Sasuke having to face up to the pain he has caused others.

 

The message of the story, is terrible.

Sasuke is not a villain, he's an on and off antagonist.

 

Naruto doesn't know the worst things Sasuke has done. He doesn't know that he killed a dozen of samurais, he doesn't know that he tortured Sakura with a genjutsu. Naruto has always been somewhat blind to Sasuke's dark side, but I feel like we're being unfair if we judge him for not seeing everything the audience does.

 

I think most of the villains/antagonists are getting forgiven way too easily, and Sasuke is not an exception nor worse than the others. Kabuto is head of the orphanage and Itachi was revealed to be a double agent all along yet he still tortured Sasuke and Kakashi for no reason. Gaara killed children from his village. I don't mean to pull the whataboutism argument but I don't get why Sasuke is the only one that gets toasted like this. Kishi doesn't have a Sasuke obsession, his editors pressed for Sasuke plots when he didn't want to.

[VanitasDS76491]

In my opinion it's one thing to be someone's best friend, it's another to obsess over them like they are the only one in your life that matters, AS CLEARLY is the case with Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi is saying that they have bonds with others and care about their friends but he did a piss poor job job at portraying it as Naruto and Sasuke only obsess about each other even though there is no feasible reason to. They NEVER bonded, even in part I so how they are even best friends/spiritual brothers doesn't even make sense in the context. Kishimoto, when I think about couldn't eve portray his main core THEME PROPERLY. And he expects that NAruto and Sasuke's bond is believable? Especially when they don't put anyone else on the same level of importance? well in Sasuke's case, anyone who is alive, technically speaking. If you think about it Naruto and Sasuke were rivals only, never friends, their relationship in Part I was about Naruto trying to outdo Sasuke then Sasuke feeling the same in reverse after he realized he still was not even close to beating Itachi and witnessing NAruto go toe to toe with Gaara. they did not even part on amicable terms at the end of their fight and NEVER DID throughout part II. Now taking all of this into consideration can you TRULY call them friends?
 
To put this into perspective, did anyone here read/ watch Shaman King to the end? To those that do, remember how Lyserg left the group to pursue his revenge against Hao? And yet Yoh still visits him on multiple occasions, and while Yoh may not accept or even like Lyserg's choices, he understands he cannot convince Lyserg otherwise because it's his decision to make. THAT IS A true friend, not this idiotic writing here in Naruto, where Naruto is all like "Sasuke you're doing this this against your will and I don't accept your choice, so you must agree with me or I'm dragging your @$$ back home with me!!!!! Where as Sasuke is like "Naruto stop following me or I will kill you!!!! In fact because you're my best friend, I WILL kill you so the pain will make me stronger!!!!" That doesn't sound like friendship to me. Does anyone here think otherwise?

Or like I keep bringing up sora and riku or Jason and Tommy, Wes and Eric and more fitting for this Casey and Jarrod from mighty Morphin, time force and jungle or jack and sky from spd. Those are real friends not how naruto and sasuke are. They are more rivals than friends. Kishi poorly portrayed that message. Now naruto really doesn't care about anyone but himself and use everyone he can lIke his son from what I've heard In the bolt movie thathat I'm going to watch soon, he cared more about his passing than if he was alright and for him not to lose to shikamaru's son.
  

heh fox and the hound.

 
Nice comparison didn't even notice I did that and you do think naruto and Kiba are better than naruto and sasuke?
 

That seems to be a consistent thing in Naruto with Kishi - portraying obsessions as "love", "friendship", and so on.

And he fails at both Tetsuya norma does this stuff better th as now kishi.

[Phantom_999]

Sasuke is not a villain, he's an on and off antagonist.

 

Naruto doesn't know the worst things Sasuke has done. He doesn't know that he killed a dozen of samurais, he doesn't know that he tortured Sakura with a genjutsu. Naruto has always been somewhat blind to Sasuke's dark side, but I feel like we're being unfair if we judge him for not seeing everything the audience does.

 

I think most of the villains/antagonists are getting forgiven way too easily, and Sasuke is not an exception nor worse than the others. Kabuto is head of the orphanage and Itachi was revealed to be a double agent all along yet he still tortured Sasuke and Kakashi for no reason. Gaara killed children from his village. I don't mean to pull the whataboutism argument but I don't get why Sasuke is the only one that gets toasted like this. Kishi doesn't have a Sasuke obsession, his editors pressed for Sasuke plots when he didn't want to.

 

I think the reason that it's Sasuke getting all the flak for being too easily forgiven around here is that the other so called redeemed villains weren't shown in chapter 700 and most weren't even going out of their way to read the chapters post 700 where those villains were portrayed as their current selves.

 

Well THAT, and at least the villains were interesting as villains, where as Sasuke wasn't interesting as anything. Not as a protagonist, not as an antagonist, not even when he decided to become Hokage. He was just an wangsty brat that Kishi tried (but failed) to make complex. Yet he is STILL a creator's pet. Think of all the freebies and excuses that were made for him. Even if it wasn't Kishi who wanted him to be this involved in the story, he (Sasuke) is still a creator's pet then because it's the editors writing the story not Kishi. Anyways back to what I was saying. That is the thing about Naruto and Sasuke's characters, they  are just not complex . They have a dark past but that's it, and they just have simple, unambiguous aims for their emotional pain, Naruto strives to be a prankster, and then moving on to save others, Sasuke wants revenge on those that screwed him over.

 

Well that's my opinion at least

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 April 2017 - 01:30 PM.

[Aevrum]

In my opinion it's one thing to be someone's best friend, it's another to obsess over them like they are the only one in your life that matters, AS CLEARLY is the case with Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi is saying that they have bonds with others and care about their friends but he did a piss poor job job at portraying it as Naruto and Sasuke only obsess about each other even though there is no feasible reason to. They NEVER bonded, even in part I so how they are even best friends/spiritual brothers doesn't even make sense in the context. Kishimoto, when I think about couldn't eve portray his main core THEME PROPERLY. And he expects that NAruto and Sasuke's bond is believable? Especially when they don't put anyone else on the same level of importance? well in Sasuke's case, anyone who is alive, technically speaking. If you think about it Naruto and Sasuke were rivals only, never friends, their relationship in Part I was about Naruto trying to outdo Sasuke then Sasuke feeling the same in reverse after he realized he still was not even close to beating Itachi and witnessing NAruto go toe to toe with Gaara. they did not even part on amicable terms at the end of their fight and NEVER DID throughout part II. Now taking all of this into consideration can you TRULY call them friends?
 
To put this into perspective, did anyone here read/ watch Shaman King to the end? To those that do, remember how Lyserg left the group to pursue his revenge against Hao? And yet Yoh still visits him on multiple occasions, and while Yoh may not accept or even like Lyserg's choices, he understands he cannot convince Lyserg otherwise because it's his decision to make. THAT IS A true friend, not this idiotic writing here in Naruto, where Naruto is all like "Sasuke you're doing this this against your will and I don't accept your choice, so you must agree with me or I'm dragging your @$$ back home with me!!!!! Where as Sasuke is like "Naruto stop following me or I will kill you!!!! In fact because you're my best friend, I WILL kill you so the pain will make me stronger!!!!" That doesn't sound like friendship to me. Does anyone here think otherwise?

I think they drove themselves into a deadlock with trying to postpone and highlight the Sasuke vs. Naruto end fight (In my opinion the fight and Sasuke's return should have happened much earlier, before the fight against the 'evil guys' [Which they partly simply HAD to implement, with Sasuke helping during the war/'Team-7-fighting-reunion']) and then realized themselves, that the bond between them is not believable enough to justify the 'obsession'.
That's why they included the flashbacks from the earlier academy days later on, but it was never enough, because they couldn't insert more bonding than that, because it would clash with Naruto's and Sasuke's behaviour towards each other in part 1.
(Ignoring the Sage of the six paths, Indra, Ashura reincarnation BS, which was supposed to show us that it was 'destiny' all along and f***ing up their bond and so many 'Naruto-motives')

But again, I think they did this compatibility to the (earlier) storyline the best way possible.
But of course, a different route with the Sasuke-Naruto dynamic in part 2 would have worked MUCH better, but the Sasuke vs. Naruto motive was just too popular and anticipated to let it drop/happen earlier.

[T XD]

*goodbye sasuke*
[summary: a song parody of the Dixie chick's "good bye earl" lol that song popped into my head, and i had to try to do a parody making fun of sasusaku LOL]

naruto, and sakura were the best of friends
All through their academy days
Both members of the ninja team
Both active in their ninja way

After graduation naruto went out
for two years to train
then looked all around this town
for sasuke who whent insane

Well, it wasn't two weeks
after after he's back in town
sakura fell in love
She trained with the hokage
for days, and nights'
And wanted to show what all she had done

Well, she finally got the nerve tell him how she feels
She let her heart take it from there
But naruto called her out for not being honest
and acted like he didn't care

Right away sakura whent out to iron country
looking for sasuke to fight
she knocked out her team, and made up a scheme
And it didn't take her long to decide
That sasuke had to die

naruto came by to rescue her
he was her shield and ray of hope
naruto gave sasuke a speech
that said "your still a ninja, if you want to come back let us know"

Well, the weeks went by and spring turned to summer
And summer faded into fall
And it turns out sasuke was a missing ninja
who nobody missed at all
 

That's a good poem

Edited by T XD, 10 April 2017 - 03:04 PM.

[Tiller]

Sasuke is not a villain, he's an on and off antagonist.

 

He's killed people for his own desires in order to get revenge and later power. In any story that's a villain.

 

Almost every villain in this story isn't brought back. This "peace" no matter what message is a laughable joke.

[Aevrum]

 
He's killed people for his own desires in order to get revenge and later power. In any story that's a villain.
 
Almost every villain in this story isn't brought back. This "peace" no matter what message is a laughable joke.

I think there was simply a shift during his writing. In early part 2 we were shown his 'human' side and how he explicitly does not want to kill/harm anyone, if he can avoid it.
Afterwards that all went into the trash can, to make him only redeemable by Naruto. And THAT was a terrible mistake, because it played 'favourites' with Sasuke, and made Naruto to a hypocrite.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The point of Sasuke's bad actions was for him to learn at the end, but the plot got twisted at the end with no actual comprehension of what happened of Sasuke's bad actions and their result, and we don't see anything been talked about them. 

 

He got to be on the good side again, but how and why ? He's a puzzle.

 

As for his behavior towards his loved ones, he's still the same on seeing him distanced from them.

Main characters that have Sasuke's kind of character get more warm when they're seen with his closed ones. Sasuke is seen standing there with what he got to say and that's it.

 

He's still the Part 1 Sasuke minus wanting revenge.

 

Exactly, it makes no sense. And seriously, someone who is like Sasuke, like Vegeta, at least got to show how his family means the world to him, given what we've seen in Dragon Ball Z as well as Super that Bulma, Trunks, and Bulla are his world, even if he is stoic because of what he went through while under Frieza's thumb.

[T XD]

 

Exactly, it makes no sense. And seriously, someone who is like Sasuke, like Vegeta, at least got to show how his family means the world to him, given what we've seen in Dragon Ball Z as well as Super that Bulma, Trunks, and Bulla are his world, even if he is stoic because of what he went through while under Frieza's thumb.

I bet they're going to wake up later on in the series and say something like : " We should make Sasuke look more loving towards his loved ones cause he's distant to his family and friends most of the times ".

[VanitasDS76491]

I bet they're going to wake up later on in the series and say something like : " We should make Sasuke look more loving towards his loved ones cause he's distant to his family and friends most of the times ".

but still it wouldn't work at all.

[VanitasDS76491]

Exactly, it makes no sense. And seriously, someone who is like Sasuke, like Vegeta, at least got to show how his family means the world to him, given what we've seen in Dragon Ball Z as well as Super that Bulma, Trunks, and Bulla are his world, even if he is stoic because of what he went through while under Frieza's thumb.

Will breif parts of z did we see vegeta being human lIke in the freeza saga when he was killed and when trunks died at the end of the cell saga and his suicide blast in the Buu saga to him fight beerus someone who scares him more than freeza did when beerus hit his wife to now him passing up training with whis to stay with Bulma.

[Legend054]

 

He's killed people for his own desires in order to get revenge and later power. In any story that's a villain.

 

I guess that's true. "A villain is a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot."

 

So Light Yagami from Death Note was a villain after all.

 

http://thewritepract...n-protagonists/

Edited by Legend054, 12 April 2017 - 05:05 AM.

[unhskikrforever]

No way No way!! This can't be right??  It almost feels like heaven... I thought this day would never come.  Masashi Kishimoto just admitted the truth about everything that happened 3 years ago when the final two chapters released.  

 

"I've looked back at the series after much considerations and I've realized that I made a mistake when it came to Naruto.. I gave Sasuke too much focus that it took away who the story should've really focused on. The Tale of Naruto Uzumaki, but instead it became the story of Sasuke after The Pain Arc. Originally I planned for one final arc after Pain that truly revolved around Naruto vs Sasuke, but my editors insisted that Naruto should've ended with a war and that led to many complications. Obito Uchiha being Tobi was planned since the beginning, and I wanted to really delve deep into his relationship with Rin and show one final scene between the two in Chapter 691.  It was gonna be almost like a heartwarming scene between Rin and Obito, and I wanted to end it with a hug between the two where Rin tells Obito "I'm glad you found you're way, and I promise I'll always be with you till the end of time." Obito smiles with tears as he and Rin fade with a monologue "Thank you Rin, Kakashi, and most importantly you Naruto." However, due to time constraints I had to cut it short.  I'd also like to say that the couples weren't exactly what i made them out to be in fact.. the truth is it connects back to Chapter 662 and 663, those were my true intentions, but instead I felt I owe the fans for the support over the years since why the couples are the way they are. Some may not be able to forgive me for what's happened, but I'll take everything I learned from here and improve with my next series."

 

 

I simplified it... It goes way more depth here:

 

 

 

Man. I thought this was real. Since the anime was going to end already, I thought he decided to come out to tell the truth about the series. D: Ugh. 

[BlueStarSaber]

Kinda wish the naruto vs saskue fight went down like this 

[gamma]

Kinda wish the naruto vs saskue fight went down like this 

 

Classic 

Edited by lux, 12 April 2017 - 05:52 PM.