168 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

I think it's just snark, or at least I vaguely remember her saying something like that.

I guess everyone has their own sense of humour. XD I give this one an F.

[Qia]

I should probably mention, in case you're wondering, that I merely just borrowed what the Last had to say to try and make sense of this confusing scene. It did occur to me while typing all of that out that I haven't actually seen a scene in the manga that depicts this idea that Naruto doesn't understand love when applied to him, so it was definitely a reach. Especially when I took into account that the concepts of "peace" and "hatred" are just as or even more complex than the idea of "love", and if Naruto's expected to find an answer for this concept of "hatred" then he would ultimately fail. Plus, him not understanding such complex concepts sort of lowers his competency and reliability to fulfill his role as the main character of this story. So yea.  .  

Edited by Qia, 16 August 2017 - 06:11 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I should probably mention, in case you're wondering, that I merely just borrowed what the Last had to say to try and make sense of this confusing scene. It did occur to me while typing all of that out that I haven't actually seen a scene in the manga that depicts this idea that Naruto doesn't understand love when applied to him, so it was definitely a reach. Especially when I took into account that the concepts of "peace" and "hatred" are just as or even more complex than the idea of "love", and if Naruto's expected to find an answer for this concept of "hatred" then he would ultimately fail. Plus, him not understanding such complex concepts sort of lowers his competency and reliability to fulfill his role as the main character of this story. So yea.  .  

It is the movie with him using Kage Bunshin as a 8 year old. That was red flag.

[BlackShirtGuy]

I should probably mention, in case you're wondering, that I merely just borrowed what the Last had to say to try and make sense of this confusing scene. It did occur to me while typing all of that out that I haven't actually seen a scene in the manga that depicts this idea that Naruto doesn't understand love when applied to him, so it was definitely a reach. Especially when I took into account that the concepts of "peace" and "hatred" are just as or even more complex than the idea of "love", and if Naruto's expected to find an answer for this concept of "hatred" then he would ultimately fail. Plus, him not understanding such complex concepts sort of lowers his competency and reliability to fulfill his role as the main character of this story. So yea.  .  

That is a pretty damn near impossible thing to do, not even the creator can properly explain how that movie works, and the fans were always skeptical on Kishi's "explanation" , 3 years later and he still talking about the stupid pairings in his intervies, the fact of the matter is that lots of stuff were changed last minute for one reason or another or he was bribed/coarced onto doing the ending as it is. 
If NH was really endgame, it wouldn't need a movie to explain it, and no that IS indeed the purpose of the movie, Kishi said  himself in an interview.

In the words of Rick Sanchez trying to explain this story to another person is like asking a horse to repair a merry-go-around, I mean he'll try his best, but ultimately the poor thing is just gonna get horrified.

Edited by BlackShirtGuy, 16 August 2017 - 06:53 PM.

[BlackShirtGuy]

 

1: This is a flawed reading, because it does not give a reason why this is happening. The Last tells the set-up of the event that more or less caused that reaction. 

 

3: Still not a Plothole. 

 

But really responded to point out to the above: ... NH Doesn't need a movie to justify itself. It makes sense fine without it. I think if you did do some lore and manga double-checking, it might help with this.

 

And on the lengthy post about the Land of Iron, this is the one moment/arc where the crush is treated seriously. Naruto is shocked, naturally. I do not believe he is blushing, and I don't recall the anime interpreting his face into that either. Regardless of that detail, this is probably the closest you can get to presenting an argument of Naruto being in love with Sakura. Yet it falls apart pages later. The stronger conclusion, and really, the accurate one sadly, is that Naruto never started loving Sakura. I'm still exploring a stance where, he did, and it just faded, but ultimately, I don't think that one has a foundation. 

 

Because this is a sinking ship moment. After these pages, NS essentially sinks, with Naruto's rejection. This is the flaw of that interpretation. I think its one you can have, but it has this error in its analysis. 

 

Finally, I see a lot of NS has the most development arguments. But Naruto's crush really doesn't develop at all from part one. It's actually, more and more lessened, less frequently even used. There really isn't that sort of development at all. 

Flawed reading? Seriously?? Naruto explicitly says: ...that looks away when I look at her. 

How the hell I am "misreading" as you pro-enders love to say this???
Naruto is basically telling, it's just some girl that always looks away when she comes into my view. HOW IS THIS INTERPRETATION FLAWED???
You know what's really flawed here? your "analyzing" and everyone can see it, you spend over  700+ post trying to argue your "Facts" and all you have proven is you are gonna take any explanation the pro-enders and Kishi said (you know they can lie and be biased too, right?) KISHI you know the kittening creator you love so much, Kishimoto himself said he never cared about writing an NH romance and that it's great the movie exists for that purpose and you still say that the movie isn't for explaining NH? Let me ask you this, how do you even tie that movie with the Boruto series, huh? Oh right, the awesome moon-guy 5 seconds cameo.

About the Naruto blushing part, he is, see the images @ThroughWithLove posted, not like it matters to you, you want to believe that Naruto was always the same kitten he is in The Last and onwards fine, your OPINION, is yours. 
I on the otherhand, believe something different, I believe Naruto WAS an honest and good person initially, even if it is a FACT that Naruto was always a lyiing a-hole who only saw her teammate as a prize, lied to her best friend daughter about his own past, and neglects his own family.
THIS is how Naruto is now, your OPINION says Naruto was always this, mine says otherwise, the FACT is that he is, so YOU are right, congratulations.
 

Edited by BlackShirtGuy, 16 August 2017 - 11:43 PM.

[Qia]

 

What are you talking about? It's well established that Naruto and Hinata met in their academy years. This is a fact. Number one is true. There's even a flashback to the academy in the Chuunin Exams with her there. 

 

Actually, it's not a fact at all but just your assumption.  I know exactly what panels you speak of, in chapter 76, and all it shows is Naruto shouting at the villagers that he would receive the Hokage's name while they ignore his existence. Hinata was not present in the flashback but was merely an onlooker. What's significant here, and why it was given, was to show that she was the only onlooker. The first, as you say, to acknowledge his existence (at least inwardly). However, it gives no hints and is therefore not enough to conclude that they "met", as in talking for the first time, during their academy years. And no there aren't any scenes before or after this chapter where we're shown Naruto in the Academy days in relation to Hinata. 

 

Just felt like correcting you here. 

Edited by Qia, 16 August 2017 - 10:28 PM.

[sidenemy]

We all know narusaku will really happen if sakura stop rejecting naruto and stop chase after sasuke.but guess what?no she still chase after sasuke even when he want to kill her.she doesnt even realise naruto is much better for her.the only problem is on sakura not naruto,because naruto used to love her.so just stop blame hinata for get the best of naruto.at least hinata do something and confess.unlike sakura,she fake confess and play with naruto heart.even naruto said he hate someone who lies to themself.so i guess sakura didnt deserve naruto.

[Kagomaru]

We all know narusaku will really happen if sakura stop rejecting naruto and stop chase after sasuke.but guess what?no she still chase after sasuke even when he want to kill her.she doesnt even realise naruto is much better for her.the only problem is on sakura not naruto,because naruto used to love her.so just stop blame hinata for get the best of naruto.at least hinata do something and confess.unlike sakura,she fake confess and play with naruto heart.even naruto said he hate someone who lies to themself.so i guess sakura didnt deserve naruto.

You're new here, but we have had this argument dozens of times.  Sakura didn't lie.  Kishimoto even pointed out in his interview that Sakura was being honest when she made her confession; what she lied about was her feelings about Sasuke. Even her profile in the databook that he wrote expressed that her feelings for Naruto had changed, with an illustration of her blushing. And she wasn't screwing with his heart for the hell of it.  She was worried about him potentially killing himself to complete his promise to her to bring home Sasuke.

 

Secondly, Hinata's confession had no impact on Naruto throughout the entire series because he never gave it a second thought after it was said. They barely shared more than a paragraph of dialogue with each other and Naruto never betrays a hint of attraction towards her in the whole manga. As it was retroactively contrived at the last minute, it took him losing a friend (Neji was killed to "play cupid" for Naruto and Hinata; Kishi's words and quite disgusting to do to a character), being guilt tripped both by Sakura and a genjutsu, having his past retconned and him generally being grossly OOC in a movie that wasn't even written by the original creator to even consider Hinata as a potential love interest. 

 

Kishimoto himself said that Naruto is only with Hinata because of pity for her character and that Sakura would supposedly be a terrible woman for moving on from Sasuke and being with Naruto.  That is *not* a good basis for any romance, real or fictitious. Nor is it acceptable  to push this sexist delusion that women don't move on from their first love/crush/infatuation(or that it's wrong for women to move on but men? Go for it.)

 

 

Also, you don't find it the least bit hypcritical that you criticize Sakura for being hung up on Sasuke when Naruto is arguably much worse than she is?  The guy tried to killed him on numerous occasions, wanted to destroy his village,  the other Kages, and subjugate the Bijuu so that he can become the supreme ruler of the world and even mind-raped the very woman he loved? And Naruto's response is to smile and proclaim that he still considers him his best friend. Oh,and he'll sometimes call him a bastard as a reprimand.

 

Remember, Kishimoto made it painfully obvious that his bias with the Uchiha clan is so encompassing that he will ensure they will never be hated or held accountable for any horrible atrocities they commit and they will beloved by all.  This is the manga that had the main character call the man who murdered his parents "the coolest guy ever". 

But I digress.

 

Anyway, behind the scenes, it's been made clear that Kishimoto only put Naruto with Hinata because Studio Pierrot, his new editors and western audiences pressured him into doing so.  His own writing staff and his wife, who served as the basis for Kushina and Sakura's personalities(as past interviews with Kishimoto confirmed), were shocked when he put Naruto with Hinata. 

 

And as Boruto has clearly shown us, both characters are miserable in their marriage.  Naruto rarely spends any time with his family and doesn't show a real desire to do so.  The manga and even the anime have illustrated that he would rather work, get drunk and sleep on the couch then share a bed with his wife or spare any real moment with his children. He wouldn't even eat the bentos given to him by Hinata and never smiles around her. Hell, he went to his "best friend" (a deadbeat father and absentee husband for 12 years) to ask how to help mend the rift with his son instead of, y'know, the woman who birthed said-child and has been raising him for 11 years? And he shows more of an interest in mentoring Sarada (y'know his former love's little girl) than his son or daughter.   

 

There's a reason why people in Japan have come to call Naruto "The Worst Scumbag" Post-Ending.

 

Of course, as we see,  Hinata doesn't say anything about her children's behavior, her husband's absence, or the general dysfunction of their homelife.  She just sits there in the background, complicit and mostly blank-faced, hoping the situation will resolve itself.  Which is just another reason why Naruto and Hinata are terrible for each other.

 

 

So, please, don't come in with this "Hinata was the best for Naruto" crap.  She never did anything for Naruto while he was growing up alone, she never had any actual faith in Naruto's ability to succeed(when you recall her attempting to help Naruto cheat during the written tests for the Chuunin Exams and her stepping into the fight with Pain), and she does not make Naruto happy.  She never even really loved Naruto for who he is, just her idealized vision of what she believed(wanted) him to be.

Edited by Kagomaru, 03 September 2017 - 02:25 PM.

[sidenemy]

There is a talk about masashi that i dont know.and i can just easily belive it,because well you know so much people throw some false fact and said its a true fact.just because someone said something and you agree with them that doesnt mean you can belive it easily without confirmation.ok lets just say sakura have feeling for naruto,but way she still crying over sasuke when the war is end and she blush when sasuke poke her.do you really think sakura is love naruto more than sasuke?then you must be blind.from what i see,sakura always love sasuke,even if she been rejected,called annoying and almost killed she still crazy in love with him.if you think sakura suddenly replace sasuke with naruto,just because naruto be hero is so pityfull.she doesnt even love naruto from the start,and suddenly she love him because naruto save the village,how come that possible.we all know sakura tell her friends her plan to make naruto stop chase after sasuke.and sai said she doing that because she doesnt want to burden naruto with his promise.then its mean she doesnt love naruto.its a fake confession.if sakura really care about naruto feeling,then she wouldnt try to kill sasuke.because naruto really want to bring sasuke back even if the world hate sasuke he still want to save him.but you see sakura didnt considered naruto feeling,she doesnt belive naruto can save sasuke thats why she act careless by fake confess and try to kill sasuke.if you think her confess its true then she shouldnt have plan to kill sasuke.beside when the war is over and sasuke want to fight with naruto,she crying to stop sasuke because she love him.if sakura really love naruto then she shouldnt chase after sasuke.yet all what she do is to chase sasuke.even when sasuke leave the village she still wait for him,she doesnt change her heart for naruto.how come naruto end up with a girl who doesnt even love,a girl who always chase another man?

[Kagomaru]

IOW, you're another pro-ender/NH/SS fan that just came into this site just so you could get us NaruSaku fans to shut up and blindly worship your dysfunctional and abusive ships? HA! Good luck with that.

Edited by Kagomaru, 03 September 2017 - 02:38 PM.

[sushi.]

IOW, you're another pro-ender/NH/SS fan that just came into this site just so you could get us NaruSaku fans to shut up and blindly worship your dysfunctional and abusive ships? HA! Good luck with that.

It's one more Analyzer. They don't like fun.

[sidenemy]

I realise i dont have enough power to order anyone around.all i can do is try knock some sense.if you think narusaku is better, then its alright.i dont blame you.because people have different perception.but if you think you can make your self better by mock at masashi and his creation just because he doesnt do what you like then you just being ungrateful fans.look just because i dont really like sasusaku couple that doesnt mean i have right to mock at them.because im appreaciate masashis creation.and i know so much people love sasusaku and if i mock at them its mean im being disrespect to their opinion.

[VanitasDS76491]

.You are correct, Sakura was being honest when she was listing reasons she -shouldn't- love Sasuke, and love Naruto instead, but to clarify, she was not being honest that she had moved on from Sasuke. I.E, she did not love Naruto, and still loved Sasuke. Most sum it up as her still loving Sasuke alone, but I think remembering that she does not love Naruto romantically here either makes things more clear. Her feelings for Naruto had changed, I.E., they had become good friends. The Databook is not written by Kishimoto though, best used as a supplemental source.
 
I.E., your understanding of Sakura is pretty strong, I only point your conclusions are faulty, too much stock is put in them being romantic, when they are explicitly not. 
 
Unfortunately your understanding of Hinata and Naruto's bond is not. Just as we can illustrate Sakura's feelings for Naruto changed, so we can illustrate Naruto's feelings for Hinata change. We can do this within one arc alone, how he views her at the beginning of the Chuunin Exams to the end is objectively different. We go from "A Dark shy and weird girl", to "Someone I really like". 
 
We can illustrate that Naruto could not piece out if his feelings were romantic or platonic, but once he did, they were romantic. This is canon. I.E., the feelings that grew for Hinata in the manga set up a romantic foundation. Kishimoto did not write romance, and I said this a lot, but Kishimoto laid out the foundation for it. You mention panel time, or dialogue time, but quantity does not equal quality, and what Naruto and Hinata do with their little panel time is quite good. No one would of course, not argue for more, if that is what you are pushing, more is always good, but what was there is sufficient. That you call Neji's death disgusting is silly, he did not -only- die to do that, and within the story, that was not the character's reasoning to die, they died for two people they loved. The moment pushed Naruto and Hinata closer together yes, that part was cupid, but narratively flow -demanded- someone close to Naruto die. Neji did many things at once, and was the best choice for this. The genjutsu -cannot- gulttrip Naruto, Sakura -did not- guilt trip Naruto, his past was not retconned, the Original Creator heavily marked on and supervised it's creation, and they planned Hinata as the love interest early on.
 
Onto the next paragraph, we have a gross misunderstanding of a quote. Naruto and Hinata were not put together out of pity, that was never said. He said that -if- he had chosen to put Naruto with someone else, he would have felt sorry for her, because her ending would have ultimately been an unrequited love after loving him for so long. I.E., her ending in 700 would be bittersweet. The Sakura one is also misunderstood, she would have been a "terrible woman", or if her gender was the reverse, "terrible man", because this has nothing to do with gender, because it would have called her love of Sasuke into question, and her love would be shallow. You are making a social issue of something, that has no social issues with it.
 
Let's set something straight: Sasuke did not deserve the devotion Naruto or Sakura gave him. That said, being that Naruto did not love Sakura in that fashion, and he proceeds to successfully turn Sasuke away, or are we forgetting this and just looking at Naruto being hopeful and bashing that part down?
 
Of course, the "coolest guy ever" quote is also misunderstood. Need I explain this one? And the Uchiha clan did horrible things. They did not get away with it. Sasuke still has that past, he was imprisoned for a time for his actions, and only let free because of Kakashi and Naruto. The rest of the Uchiha are -dead-. 
 
The argument gets even weaker, because now we are saying a Studio that has nothing to do with the manga, Western Audiences who somehow have power over him, and where in the world do you get his writing staff was shocked? This is complete conspiracy theory making. There's zero basis for this, particularly that there were NS fans within Studio Perriot who were a little disappointed, NS fans in the Western Audience who were as well. The argument makes no sense, now you are forced to explain why they did nothing, since, apparently we had power over the ending. 
 
The characters are not miserable in their marriages, it's extremely clear that 700 is a happily ever after. Boruto shows that conflicts still happen, but their families get stronger through them. We mention the drunk aspect, but the bottle on his desk may not even be Sake, it's never shown it is, merely that is your sole interpretation, to which you stretch to alcoholism, which makes no sense, as he's shown drunk only once, before he became a Hokage, and he was happy. I.E., if we are taking this episode, at the end, he looks on his family with love and happiness. You have nothing to work with. The Bento argument with Hinata is silly, particularly that he eats the one Sarada brings, and the no smile part is just silly, provably false too if you watch the anime, and don't ignore the ending of Boruto apparently, where you hear them laughing. Also, you're wrong about the Sasuke part, he didn't ask him to do that, and Sasuke does not heal the rift. The mentoring Sarada more is silly too, because that is not really shown either, and you know, it's also his best friend's little girl? 
 
There's a reason people in Japan still enjoy Naruto and it's post products.
 
And Hinata does not sit there, blank faced, she tries to speak to Boruto, and as you see in the anime, quite understands Boruto. But you know, plot conflict equals bad mother, right? No, that's silly because there isn't even a dysfunction, it is literally tension between just Boruto and Naruto, which is resolved, or are we ignoring that? That's the problem with the entire image, you are ignoring the resolution.
 
No one did anything when Naruto was growing up alone, why do we solely attack Hinata for this? Naruto was having trouble with the questions, so saying she didn't have faith here is silly, and she helped motivate him for the Neji fight, literally later being quoted as saving him. The pain fight is even -sillier-, Naruto was defeated. You are literally saying that she should not have stepped in. Had she not, the story would have ended with Naruto being taken, and likely, a dark ending. 
 
Here's the truth, and we should be able to admit this even if we do not ship NS, Hinata does make Naruto happy, and she loved Naruto for who he was, and he her.

There's so many things I want to say to you right but won't cause nate might kick me off. Thanks to you I might have lost a great friend and writer on fanfiction thanks to your ego.

[sushi.]

There's so many things I want to say to you right but won't cause nate might kick me off. Thanks to you I might have lost a great friend and writer on fanfiction thanks to your ego.

I'm sorry if these are harsh words but I think you shouldn't have said anything at all because comments like this only create drama. When you say there are many things you want to say but won't since the mods will kick you off, the person you're talking to might imagine the worst.

 

I think it's time to stop talking about firstevil100's departure. They left on their own accord, and Analyzer has also caused inacitivty on my side, which also is my choice. Even if Analyzer's behaviour triggered this people have been shoving it in her face several times, and at one point you just have to move on. She also tried to better her behavior since the mods have been restraining her.

[VanitasDS76491]

I'm sorry if these are harsh words but I think you shouldn't have said anything at all because comments like this only create drama. When you say there are many things you want to say but won't since the mods will kick you off, the person you're talking to might imagine the worst.
 
I think it's time to stop talking about firstevil100's departure. They left on their own accord, and Analyzer has also caused inacitivty on my side, which also is my choice. Even if Analyzer's behaviour triggered this people have been shoving it in her face several times, and at one point you just have to move on. She also tried to better her behavior since the mods have been restraining her.

That's why I'm not saying them. No he said he's giving up writing fanfiction even though he's a great writer cause he saw something analyzer said and probably took it the wrong way and I like talking to him evil 100. He hasn't responded to my posts on fanfiction so I don't know what's going on with him. I just hope will still write. Besides most are probably thinking it about analyzer , oh really that's good. I just found out about this last night and do the know the full story.

Edited by VanitasDS76491, 03 September 2017 - 07:49 PM.

[thelordofspace72]

OK. The majority says in the pain arc. But I say that at the moment the production of the film naruto the last.

[Yojeveka]

I'm sorry if these are harsh words but I think you shouldn't have said anything at all because comments like this only create drama. When you say there are many things you want to say but won't since the mods will kick you off, the person you're talking to might imagine the worst.

 

I think it's time to stop talking about firstevil100's departure. They left on their own accord, and Analyzer has also caused inacitivty on my side, which also is my choice. Even if Analyzer's behaviour triggered this people have been shoving it in her face several times, and at one point you just have to move on. She also tried to better her behavior since the mods have been restraining her.

 

Better her behavior? How come? She keeps contradicting us and acting like she knows this manga better than anyone else. Therefore, like we didn't read properly. If members are leaving this place, it's because it's annoying to have Analyzer quoting every post and saying how terribly wrong we are. And no, that's not even debating because she repeats herself every single time. Also, this is a NaruSaku Forum, but I haven't read her saying something PRO NS, she just talks about how NH/SS/Boruto are so wonderfully done. 

Edited by Yojeveka, 04 September 2017 - 06:21 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Better her behavior? How come? She keeps contradicting us and acting like she knows this manga better than anyone else. Therefore, like we didn't read properly. If members are leaving this place, it's because it's annoying to have Analyzer quoting every post and saying how terribly wrong we are. And no, that's not even debating because she repeats herself every single time. Also, this is a NaruSaku Forum, but I haven't read her saying something PRO NS, she just talks about how NH/SS/Boruto are so wonderfully done. 

 

I also don't find that she's telling the truth about her once being NS, 'cause other wise, as you've said, she would have said it, and she just tends to talk about how she's right, we're wrong. I don't want to have this happen all the time.

[Yojeveka]

 

I also don't find that she's telling the truth about her once being NS, 'cause other wise, as you've said, she would have said it, and she just tends to talk about how she's right, we're wrong. I don't want to have this happen all the time.

 

I know, right? Everytime I check a thread and see that she posted something, I don't even need to read in order to know that it's something like: "Nope, you're wrong". It worries me to see other members leaving/getting upset because of one troll that keeps posting those negative comments. 

 

NaruSaku is (sadly) already a minority, so it's really unfair to have a person like that in a place that is supposed to be a NS Sanctuary. 

[sushi.]

 
Better her behavior? How come? She keeps contradicting us and acting like she knows this manga better than anyone else. Therefore, like we didn't read properly. If members are leaving this place, it's because it's annoying to have Analyzer quoting every post and saying how terribly wrong we are. And no, that's not even debating because she repeats herself every single time. Also, this is a NaruSaku Forum, but I haven't read her saying something PRO NS, she just talks about how NH/SS/Boruto are so wonderfully done. 

This is irrelevant to my point moreso a comfort if evil wants to come back. See triksie's warning to Analyzer. She isn't perf but she was worse.