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The Great Naruto Discussion Thread

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#30361 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 04 July 2022 - 09:35 PM

"Not everyone can be Vader, someone has to be Palpatine"
-Retrospect Greg

The only characters who had this were characters that weren't that main event villain
Deidara, Hidan, and most the Akatsuki

I also think this is why Madara was also a good villain. He literally did anything for the sake of it. The man was practically bored with existence and almost seem like he did anything to take his mind away

 

 

“What is better: to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort ?”
-Paarthurnax

 

that kind of shows in neils performace as madara he sounds so bored til hashirama shows up

 

I would say the Uchiha were the worse when it came to what Kishi did again; they went crazy because they loved too much, which, when I first read it, I just laughed over how stupid it was.

 

I feel Kishi also didn't know when someone needed a tragic past, and I feel he overused it too much.

 

Now I remember watching season 8 of the walking dead when Carl died and I remember this that someone said.

 

"This was the most heartbreaking finale yet in the series, nothing could be more devastating than for a man to lose his son,"

 

Something I agree with and hence why Vanitas and I talk about a better way to make a villain is to have them lose a child, one that they love and feels the pain of losing them.

yep and the kicker is the loss of the "villain" child is the leaf and naruto fault



#30362 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 05 July 2022 - 12:31 AM

that kind of shows in neils performace as madara he sounds so bored til hashirama shows up
 
yep and the kicker is the loss of the "villain" child is the leaf and naruto fault


Yep, and the bigger kicker is its all thanks to Naruto leaving Orochimaru alive.

#30363 Phantom_999

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Posted 05 July 2022 - 07:00 AM

It feels like, starting with Nagato, Naruto just became about nobody taking personal responsibility for anything. It all became solely "the system's" fault and never the personal choices made by the person(s) in question. Would the person(s) have made different choices if "the system" were different? Possibly, but "what-ifs" are no excuse for the crimes committed at the present time. 

And look...despite all the talk about "the system" and how much it hurt all these "tragic" characters... NARUTO DOESN'T EVEN CHANGE "THE SYSTEM"!  :bash:

 
Like I said, It's essentially a story where you got shot by someone. Then you forgive them and say it wasn't their fault. Then let them SHOOT YOU again. IT. IS. POINTLESS. All of the sob stories for the villain, all of the force feeding the audience that they are not villains but victims of circumstance, all of that blaming the ninja system instead of individual choices and the whatnot and Kishi couldn't even conclude that cheap message properly about ending the era of ninjas. It was all to set up Boruto which is yet another reason this trash heap has over stayed it's welcome.


Edited by Phantom_999, 05 July 2022 - 02:46 PM.

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#30364 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 July 2022 - 03:20 PM

Like I said, It's essentially a story where you got shot by someone. Then you forgive them and say it wasn't their fault. Then let them SHOOT YOU again. IT. IS. POINTLESS. All of the sob stories for the villain, all of the force feeding the audience that they are not villains but victims of circumstance, all of that blaming the ninja system instead of individual choices and the whatnot and Kishi couldn't even conclude that cheap message properly about ending the era of ninjas. It was all to set up Boruto which is yet another reason this trash heap has over stayed it's welcome.


Which is very irritating in the long haul since villains CAN just be villains without needing to be sympathetic. It's why I like Thanos in the comics over how he was shown in the MCU-- he just was bat crazy and evil, wanting to impress Death that he was willing to wipe out half of life to do it as well as other actions over the years.

#30365 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 05 July 2022 - 07:20 PM

 
Like I said, It's essentially a story where you got shot by someone. Then you forgive them and say it wasn't their fault. Then let them SHOOT YOU again. IT. IS. POINTLESS. All of the sob stories for the villain, all of the force feeding the audience that they are not villains but victims of circumstance, all of that blaming the ninja system instead of individual choices and the whatnot and Kishi couldn't even conclude that cheap message properly about ending the era of ninjas. It was all to set up Boruto which is yet another reason this trash heap has over stayed it's welcome.


And if that's not bad enough, they didn't even try to hide the fact that things just repeat themselves in the very first chapter only *GASP!* the characters have been swapped! Now the "Sasuke" wants to change the system while the "Naruto" wants to defend it!

So...what? Are we NOW supposed to root for Boruto's dad's spawn and DEFEND the very same system they spent the entire last half of Shippuden blaming for the entire world's and every individuals' problems?

Further shows they have no idea what they want to do except pray that lightning strikes twice hence all the repeating of the same types of plot points as "Naruto" so far in "Boruto", right down to the whole "system" argument.


2e5.gif


#30366 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 05 July 2022 - 07:59 PM

With Naruto I find it easier to understand what Kishimoto is doing with the story if you keep it simple and just assume he is answering a question his editor had, but never going farther then needed to answer the question.

 

Which is very irritating in the long haul since villains CAN just be villains without needing to be sympathetic. It's why I like Thanos in the comics over how he was shown in the MCU-- he just was bat crazy and evil, wanting to impress Death that he was willing to wipe out half of life to do it as well as other actions over the years.

Villains need to have a point in the story or they are just filler. If all the antagonist are all victims of the ninja system, then that means Naruto's true foe is the system and as the protagonist he needs to fix it so it stops creating the foes he faces. but, the story doesn't focus on that because kishimoto is too obsessed with justifying why the chase after Sasuke has to take ten years.

 

And if that's not bad enough, they didn't even try to hide the fact that things just repeat themselves in the very first chapter only *GASP!* the characters have been swapped! Now the "Sasuke" wants to change the system while the "Naruto" wants to defend it!

So...what? Are we NOW supposed to root for Boruto's dad's spawn and DEFEND the very same system they spent the entire last half of Shippuden blaming for the entire world's and every individuals' problems?

Further shows they have no idea what they want to do except pray that lightning strikes twice hence all the repeating of the same types of plot points as "Naruto" so far in "Boruto", right down to the whole "system" argument.

Not quite. Sasuike wanted revolution to tear down the system. While Naruto, at best, wanted to reform it; granted it would help if kishimoto ever focused on that. Nail wants anarchy while Bolt is an enforcer of the status quo.

 

In theory, Naruto fixed the system...we know he didn't. Or Bolt is acting as Salad's enforcer who is in theory is continuing Naruto's work.

 

You're right about them hoping it would work if they just copied Naruto proving they don't know how sequels are suppose to work.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 09 July 2022 - 05:04 AM.


#30367 lupina

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Posted 06 July 2022 - 03:10 PM

 

In theory, Naruto fixed the system...we know he didn't.

 

His solution was: "You absolutely must become friends with me, and if you do not want to, I'll beat you to it."
If you don't become his Ally, you're dead. I'm pretty sure that this is how the world always worked.


"We live in a world that is so quick to convince us to ignore our feelings. Feeling stressed? Get a massage. Feeling angry? Go to the bar with your friends and blow off steam. Feeling lonely? Meet someone in cyberspace and have a conversation on the computer. Depressed? Take a pill. Anxiety? Take 2 pills. Feeling happy? Well, by George, don’t talk about that because no one likes a bragger. Same with being sad, no one likes a Debbie Downer. But, heaven FORBID, that you actually TALK about your feelings and process them in a healthy way."
 
- Amy Cassidy

#30368 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 06 July 2022 - 05:13 PM

 
His solution was: "You absolutely must become friends with me, and if you do not want to, I'll beat you to it."
If you don't become his Ally, you're dead. I'm pretty sure that this is how the world always worked.


So, basically Naruto throws a huge hissy fit if you dont side with him and think everything he does is right?

#30369 Phantom_999

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Posted 06 July 2022 - 06:33 PM

Which is very irritating in the long haul since villains CAN just be villains without needing to be sympathetic. It's why I like Thanos in the comics over how he was shown in the MCU-- he just was bat crazy and evil, wanting to impress Death that he was willing to wipe out half of life to do it as well as other actions over the years.

 

Not only that, he failed in the execution as well. He gave little characterization to the villains in the first place, and no motivations to speak of. It was only when it was convenient for him to do so that he focused on the villains back story and that is only when they were about to be killed off or have the conflict finished with them at least and by then it is too late for the audience to FEEL anything, much less sympathize with them. He expects you to feel bad for a character he never focused on which again, to me, just feel cheap and force feeding it to you instead of it progressing naturally. THAT is the major flaw for his sob story writing for his villains and expecting the audience to sympathize with them, not that he was trying to make them sympathetic. He did it in a rush, at a time when it was too late to make the audience feel anything.


Edited by Phantom_999, 12 July 2022 - 05:21 PM.

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#30370 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 06 July 2022 - 10:02 PM

Yep, and the bigger kicker is its all thanks to Naruto leaving Orochimaru alive.

and sasuke to

 

So, basically Naruto throws a huge hissy fit if you dont side with him and think everything he does is right?

sounds like it he's a spoil brat that wants things his way, sounds like those kitten dragons in one piece



#30371 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 06 July 2022 - 10:48 PM

Not only that, he failed in the execution as well. He gave little characterization to the villains in the first place, and no motivations to speak of. It was only when it was convenient for him to do so that he focused on the villains back story and that is only when they were about to be killed off of have the conflict finished with them at least and by then it is too late for the audience to FEEL anything, much less sympathize with them. He expects you to feel bad for a character he never focused on which again  to me, just feel cheap and force feeding it to you instead of it progressing naturally. THAT is the major flaw for his sob story writing for his villains and expecting the audience to sympathize with them, not that he was trying to make them sympathetic. He did it in a rush at a time when it was too late to make the audience feel anything.


Which is why Orochimaru was great. Even if we got a small idea of his motivation, which was being affected by his parents' deaths, he just seemed as if he despised his roots to be why he wanted to destroy the Leaf besides seeking immortality. It's a shame it got cast aside eventually, but how Orochimaru was written made him dangerous because of ambition and not pain alone, like with Obito and Nagato, or pettiness and jealousy, like Madara and Sasuke.

#30372 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 09 July 2022 - 04:14 PM

Sorry if Im gone for a while everyone Ive gotten Covid.

#30373 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 09 July 2022 - 04:49 PM

Sorry if Im gone for a while everyone Ive gotten Covid.


I'm sorry to hear, Evil. Hope you are doing better

#30374 LuckyChi7

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Posted 10 July 2022 - 04:00 PM

My uncle passed away from stage 4 lung cancer last monday, and the funeral was on Wednesday.  I've been through a few funerals before with my grandpa and grandma, but this one I almost choked up twice.... "choked up" in a sense where I nearly balled during the whole thing.... 

 

 

been going to my cousin's house daily since then to give him all the support, and.... every time I walk in...  my uncle's room is the first one I see and I keep hearing "Hey, how is life going on with you?"  and I just can't help, but pause and just stare for like 5 minutes.... and just feeing this inner pain. 


Edited by LuckyChi7, 10 July 2022 - 05:42 PM.

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WE'RE IN THIS TOGETHER YOU & ME!

 


#30375 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 10 July 2022 - 10:04 PM

My uncle passed away from stage 4 lung cancer last monday, and the funeral was on Wednesday.  I've been through a few funerals before with my grandpa and grandma, but this one I almost choked up twice.... "choked up" in a sense where I nearly balled during the whole thing.... 

 

 

been going to my cousin's house daily since then to give him all the support, and.... every time I walk in...  my uncle's room is the first one I see and I keep hearing "Hey, how is life going on with you?"  and I just can't help, but pause and just stare for like 5 minutes.... and just feeing this inner pain. 

sorry for your loss lucky i lost my dad the beginning of this year



#30376 LuckyChi7

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Posted 11 July 2022 - 03:37 AM

sorry for your loss lucky i lost my dad the beginning of this year

 

Thanks Vanitas!

 

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your father at the beginning of the year. 

 

 

 

My late condolences go out to you and your family! 


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#30377 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 11 July 2022 - 04:12 AM

 

Thanks Vanitas!

 

 

I'm so sorry to hear that you lost your father at the beginning of the year. 

 

 

 

My late condolences go out to you and your family! 

Lost my Dad in 2019. 


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#30378 LuckyChi7

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Posted 11 July 2022 - 03:36 PM

Lost my Dad in 2019. 

 

I remember catching that post,  not sure if I mentioned it back then but in case I didn't,

 

 

My super late condolences go out to you and your family. 

 

 

 

This feeling of loss.... It's bad enough losing one family member, but losing another one less than a year later....  I don't even know how to describe it. 


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#30379 catsi563

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Posted 11 July 2022 - 05:12 PM

I just lost one my cat. She was with me for 17 years. I still find myself looking for signs of her jumping up on me or waiting to be fed

 

condolences for all that have lost loved ones


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#30380 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 12 July 2022 - 02:12 AM

I just lost one my cat. She was with me for 17 years. I still find myself looking for signs of her jumping up on me or waiting to be fed
 
condolences for all that have lost loved ones


Sometime ago, my mom had put down the last cat we had had,Lucky. Though she has gotten some bonded brothers, Doug and Finn (formerly Flynn), even if she's forgotten how much energy kittens have





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