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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#48481 DrK

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:43 PM

If Naruto is a scumbag, then what is Sasuke? He straight up neglects his family. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Sakura only ever had sex once and that was to conceive Sarada.

These characters are shells of their former selves. It's so sad to see.

Ok, but Sakura is a scumbag as well. She knew perfectly well that he wasn't very excited to be with her, if he was at all, and that he would never be around. Also she knew that this decision on her part would drive Naruto into the arms of a stalker. So she was being a scumbag to Naruto and her unborn child, as well as herself. Because Kishi saw the need to make her CHOOSE this even though it doesn't make sense.



#48482 winter-serenade

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:43 PM

Honestly, when Sasuke swatted away those apples, it was so unnecessary. I get that he was angry, but he had to get physical? Another completely unnecessary thing is when he put a genjutsu on her that depicted him killing her. It’s so extra for no reason I can comprehend. The only time when SasuSaku is tolerable is during the Chunin Exam.

#48483 Yyubie

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:45 PM

One of the things that i still curious and probably never got the answer is .... what make Sakura so devoted to Sasuke?

I mean at this point surely shes smart enough to realize that Sasuke didn't give a damn about her or Salad ... then WTF , why is she still so loyal and devoted to him?

What does she hold inside her about him that blinded her? Is it the bench scene she thought that no matter how s**t Sasuke is to her she believe that bench Sasuke is still hidden somewhere inside him so basically she thinks no matter how bad Sasuke is deep down he is a good guy? or what ...?

 

Whoever write this story thinking that it is a brilliant idea is a F-ing fruitcake ....


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#48484 DrK

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 03:46 PM

Honestly, when Sasuke swatted away those apples, it was so unnecessary. I get that he was angry, but he had to get physical? Another completely unnecessary thing is when he put a genjutsu on her that depicted him killing her. It’s so extra for no reason I can comprehend. The only time when SasuSaku is tolerable is during the Chunin Exam.

He wanted to be alone. Sasuke despises human contact and mere words would likely not get rid of her as quickly. Clearly he was the best choice to pair with the character that was all about nurturing care.
 

One of the things that i still curious and probably never got the answer is .... what make Sakura so devoted to Sasuke?
I mean at this point surely shes smart enough to realize that Sasuke didn't give a damn about her or Salad ... then WTF , why is she still so loyal and devoted to him?
What does she hold inside her about him that blinded her? Is it the bench scene she thought that no matter how s**t Sasuke is to her she believe that bench Sasuke is still hidden somewhere inside him so basically she thinks no matter how bad Sasuke is deep down he is a good guy? or what ...?
 
Whoever write this story thinking that it is a brilliant idea is a F-ing fruitcake ....


Stop trying to wrap your head around it. I've gone down that road and it only brings pain. Sakura did it because Hinata needed to have Naruto. Full stop. Hinata usurping the main characters causes them to cease to act in their best interests. So the story ceases to be believable. In every respect.

Edited by DrK, 11 March 2018 - 03:49 PM.


#48485 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 04:22 PM

He wanted to be alone. Sasuke despises human contact and mere words would likely not get rid of her as quickly. Clearly he was the best choice to pair with the character that was all about nurturing care.
 

Stop trying to wrap your head around it. I've gone down that road and it only brings pain. Sakura did it because Hinata needed to have Naruto. Full stop. Hinata usurping the main characters causes them to cease to act in their best interests. So the story ceases to be believable. In every respect.

 

Truer words, man, truer words...



#48486 jak123

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 04:38 PM

Honestly, when Sasuke swatted away those apples, it was so unnecessary. I get that he was angry, but he had to get physical? Another completely unnecessary thing is when he put a genjutsu on her that depicted him killing her. It’s so extra for no reason I can comprehend. The only time when SasuSaku is tolerable is during the Chunin Exam.

To me that moment where he stabbed her in the heart was the BEST example that he never loved her. There are so many ways he could have genjutsu'd her so she wouldn't interfere with their fight. Instead he chose to stab her in the heart which screams "I don't love you!"



#48487 DrK

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 04:57 PM

To me that moment where he stabbed her in the heart was the BEST example that he never loved her. There are so many ways he could have genjutsu'd her so she wouldn't interfere with their fight. Instead he chose to stab her in the heart which screams "I don't love you!"


Well that had to be a calculated decision by Kishi. Sakura could have been taken out of commission in any number of ways. He chose the one that represented Sasuke feeling no love for her. And he followed it up by having Sasuke say he felt no love for her and sees no reason why he ever should.

You also have to consider the large panel of Sakura's face before she starts talking to him. She looks more so bitter and indignant than hopeless and heartbroken. It really would be the perfect face if she was going to finally tell him that she's fed up with him and that she will never forgive him if he hurts Naruto. It doesn't really match her tearful speech of desperation.

Yet this was clearly the ending that he wanted to do all along. It fits together perfectly. Like a Jenga of true love.

Edited by DrK, 11 March 2018 - 05:03 PM.


#48488 My Living Curse

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:18 PM

I remembered the "Sakura's hug was sign of friendship/sibling/platonic love" argument.  Mind you, does friends even hug like that?! Never in my life had ever seen someone pull that to a friend. Not even to my own siblings either.

 

She was trying to be as close to him as possible. She had her entire body pressed against his and even had a hand on the back of his head. And Naruto was just in the hardest battle of his life. He would have been really sweaty and dirty. His hair and face were probably soaked but Sakura did that anyway. If she only viewed him as a friend, she would not have touched him like that. No way. She would've found it inappropriate if not disgusting to do so. But she not only did so but did so with abandon. So she loved him. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter what they did afterwards. Kishi and the sycophants at SP can never change what happened.

 

I agree. The hug was WAY too close and intimate to represent "friendly/platonic love". Especially the way she holds on to him. Besides it's not the first time Kishimoto has thrown in such instances. There's the part where Sakura puts her hand on his cheek, telling him to snap out of it after Itachi's genjutsu, or when she holds on to him as he collapses from overexposure to the 9tails mode fighting Orochimaru.

 

In the earlier chapters of part 2, she acts more tenderly towards Naruto (which honestly coming from Part 1 Naruto, I was amazed to the lengths Kishimoto went). This all goes away the same moment Kishimoto stops giving Sakura any relevancy and pretty much sits in the village. Of course, Kishimoto being the person to plan 15 years in advance; he has Minato compare Sakura to Kushina, Naruto refer to her as his girlfriend, Sakura afraid to lose Naruto and have his dreams go to waste when he's on his deathbed.

 

Not to mention the obviously dedicated panels for Naruto Sakura and Sasuke Karin. *cough*

 

Oh and the finishing touches; like less than 10 chapters before the ending Kishimoto has Sasuke stab Sakura in a genjutsu and coherently say "I have no reason to love her, nor see any reason she should love me". I swear Kishimoto is a serious master troll!  :huh:


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#48489 DrK

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:22 PM

I have to admit that was the first time that I thought about how sweaty he would have been. Sakura would have been sweaty too. Yet they're rubbing the sides of their heads together, Sakura's arm and hand is all over his hair, etc. Yet she clearly doesn't love him. She only loves Sasuke. It was platonic.

Anyone who goes to the gym would understand what I'm trying to say here.

#48490 griff142

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:27 PM

Kishimoto said a year ago Sakura was really a side character and was really nothing special but you don't waste 15 years of development and parallels to say it didn't matter. It makes the person's credibility suffer. It is just stupid for somebody to troll for 15 years and break all the development to all the characters. Why because he said so that's why.

#48491 jak123

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:52 PM

 

 

I agree. The hug was WAY too close and intimate to represent "friendly/platonic love". Especially the way she holds on to him. Besides it's not the first time Kishimoto has thrown in such instances. There's the part where Sakura puts her hand on his cheek, telling him to snap out of it after Itachi's genjutsu, or when she holds on to him as he collapses from overexposure to the 9tails mode fighting Orochimaru.

 

In the earlier chapters of part 2, she acts more tenderly towards Naruto (which honestly coming from Part 1 Naruto, I was amazed to the lengths Kishimoto went). This all goes away the same moment Kishimoto stops giving Sakura any relevancy and pretty much sits in the village. Of course, Kishimoto being the person to plan 15 years in advance; he has Minato compare Sakura to Kushina, Naruto refer to her as his girlfriend, Sakura afraid to lose Naruto and have his dreams go to waste when he's on his deathbed.

 

Not to mention the obviously dedicated panels for Naruto Sakura and Sasuke Karin. *cough*

 

Oh and the finishing touches; like less than 10 chapters before the ending Kishimoto has Sasuke stab Sakura in a genjutsu and coherently say "I have no reason to love her, nor see any reason she should love me". I swear Kishimoto is a serious master troll!  :huh:

That's not being a troll, that's being a terrible kittening writer.



#48492 jak123

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:53 PM

Kishimoto said a year ago Sakura was really a side character and was really nothing special but you don't waste 15 years of development and parallels to say it didn't matter. It makes the person's credibility suffer. It is just stupid for somebody to troll for 15 years and break all the development to all the characters. Why because he said so that's why.

That's complete and utter bullcrap. There's no one except pro-enders who think Sakura is a side character. She is the Heroine of the story.



#48493 winter-serenade

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:55 PM

Kishimoto said a year ago Sakura was really a side character and was really nothing special but you don't waste 15 years of development and parallels to say it didn't matter. It makes the person's credibility suffer. It is just stupid for somebody to troll for 15 years and break all the development to all the characters. Why because he said so that's why.


I think when he said that, he lost a lot of credibilty. I couldn't tell what was a lie and what was truth because of the amount of inconsistencies in his comments.

#48494 T XD

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 06:14 PM

We all know Masashi Kishimoto talks in an inconsistent way interview after interview on all his characters and not just Sakura. He said Sakura is the heroine in an interview and then Sakura is a side character in another interview.

 

Do not take Masashi Kishimoto seriously in his interviews till the day, if it ever comes, he acknowledges that NS was supposed to be the end game which every reader who is serious knows it is true. No need plenty of thought on this one.

 

And all manga in the world have the same development, and some less or much less, as NS for their main pairing.

 

Masashi Kishimoto knows that, we know that and everyone know that.

 

It's obvious like the noon day sun that NS was meant to be the canon pairing.

 

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Mods, can you please put this post anywhere on the home page or some place where every member and guest can read it ? Cause the obvious fact need to be always seen and heard for everyone. I'm really serious.



#48495 griff142

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 06:39 PM

We all know Masashi Kishimoto talks in an inconsistent way interview after interview on all his characters and not just Sakura. He said Sakura is the heroine in an interview and then Sakura is a side character in another interview.
 
Do not take Masashi Kishimoto seriously in his interviews till the day, if it ever comes, he acknowledges that NS was supposed to be the end game which every reader who is serious knows it is true. No need plenty of thought on this one.
 
And all manga in the world have the same development, and some less or much less, as NS for their main pairing.
 
Masashi Kishimoto knows that, we know that and everyone know that.
 
It's obvious like the noon day sun that NS was meant to be the canon pairing.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Mods, can you please put this post anywhere on the home page or some place where every member and guest can read it ? Cause the obvious fact need to be always seen and heard for everyone. I'm really serious.

It's just baffles me that he would say after all those years of development and planning just to throw it out. It me it sounded like he was reading from a script from SJ and was told what to say. I know he likes to talk in riddles but he really is not winning anybody over. What aggravates me more is that NH fans are eating it up.

#48496 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 07:58 PM

If Naruto is a scumbag, then what is Sasuke? He straight up neglects his family. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Sakura only ever had sex once and that was to conceive Sarada.

These characters are shells of their former selves. It's so sad to see.

Boruto's dad is a scumbag because everything he's doing is pretty much the complete opposite of the character that was previously established. Anyone who actually pays attention to the characters can see that this is not the same "Naruto" that they have come to know.

Sasuke's actions, on the other hand, for those who pay attention to the characters, are not surprising at all. In fact, they're quite par for how his "character" was established. Not that it doesn't make him equally a scumbag, but rather that we already knew he was a scumbag and, unless shown otherwise, would always be a scumbag, so no need to call out what was already established and well-known.


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#48497 My Living Curse

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 08:19 PM

That's not being a troll, that's being a terrible kittening writer.

 

That too. But the thing is, the Hinata-sama movie must've been in production since 2012-2013 so it could release in 2014. Which means NH and SS were supposedly already planned by then to accommodate the script. 

 

So why then didn't Kishimoto use that time to develop NH and SS throughout the war to give them some dignity and viability by the end? I mean even in the last 50-70 chapters it was straight NS moments and to top it off we have Sasuke blatantly saying he doesn't love Sakura and kills her in a genjutsu.

 

It just doesn't add up and it feels like a waste of time making all those panels. Seems pretty "troll" to me!  :D  Or he just didn't care and the manga was maybe a joke for him by that point. Anyways, it's funny to look back at these things and try to add logic!  :sleepy:


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#48498 jak123

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 08:54 PM

 

That too. But the thing is, the Hinata-sama movie must've been in production since 2012-2013 so it could release in 2014. Which means NH and SS were supposedly already planned by then to accommodate the script. 

 

So why then didn't Kishimoto use that time to develop NH and SS throughout the war to give them some dignity and viability by the end? I mean even in the last 50-70 chapters it was straight NS moments and to top it off we have Sasuke blatantly saying he doesn't love Sakura and kills her in a genjutsu.

 

It just doesn't add up and it feels like a waste of time making all those panels. Seems pretty "troll" to me!  :D  Or he just didn't care and the manga was maybe a joke for him by that point. Anyways, it's funny to look back at these things and try to add logic!  :sleepy:

See even if The Last was in development, doesn't mean Naruto was going to end up with Hinata. It's entirely plausible that NS was still going to happen and SP had him change it last minute and then they changed The Last. 



#48499 KClaws_2

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 09:59 PM

I remembered the "Sakura's hug was sign of friendship/sibling/platonic love" argument.  Mind you, does friends even hug like that?! Never in my life had ever seen someone pull that to a friend. Not even to my own siblings either.

Embracing the back of one's head is usually a sign of intimacy, at least that's what I've been lead to believe. I remember when some of my Highschool classmates came together over the death of one of our own. I met up with the girl I had a MAD crush on in Highschool, and she hugged me. Though I don't really remember the hug very well, I am almost positive it was nothing like the Sakura hug.\ Keep in mind, she had a boyfriend. Had she done the Sakura hug, I would have been very confused. 

 

Honestly, when Sasuke swatted away those apples, it was so unnecessary. I get that he was angry, but he had to get physical? Another completely unnecessary thing is when he put a genjutsu on her that depicted him killing her. It’s so extra for no reason I can comprehend. The only time when SasuSaku is tolerable is during the Chunin Exam.

It felt like this was intentional on Kishimoto's part to drive home the fact that Sasuke did not like her in the slightest. It had the red flags of an abusive relationship. Nowadays though I think Kishimoto simply goes out of his way to make his characters extra scummy and force the others to love them anyway for his weird forgiveness fetish.

 

One of the things that i still curious and probably never got the answer is .... what make Sakura so devoted to Sasuke?

I mean at this point surely shes smart enough to realize that Sasuke didn't give a damn about her or Salad ... then WTF , why is she still so loyal and devoted to him?

What does she hold inside her about him that blinded her? Is it the bench scene she thought that no matter how s**t Sasuke is to her she believe that bench Sasuke is still hidden somewhere inside him so basically she thinks no matter how bad Sasuke is deep down he is a good guy? or what ...?

 

Whoever write this story thinking that it is a brilliant idea is a F-ing fruitcake ....

I assumed it was the forehead comment that did it (when it was Naruto in disguise). 

Or the simple explanation that Kishi truly believes once a girl picks someone to fall in love with they're stuck with them. It's like women to him are sky bison from the Avatar universe.

And going by that analogy:
Naruto=Opal

Hinata=Juicy

 

Kishimoto said a year ago Sakura was really a side character and was really nothing special but you don't waste 15 years of development and parallels to say it didn't matter. It makes the person's credibility suffer. It is just stupid for somebody to troll for 15 years and break all the development to all the characters. Why because he said so that's why.

Either he's really that crazy or he's lying. It's clear that SJ is trying to bring the entire fandom back into the fold for Boruto so they made Kishi say something they thought would make us let go of the sub-par romance (to put it nicely). However, it does his reputation as a writer no favors. If Sakura was meant to be a side character, why did you keep promoting her as the heroine? Why did you even put her on the same team as Naruto. Harry Potter may have married Ginny in the end, but not even Rowling would have dared suggest Hermoine was not the main heroine of the series. 

 

It's just baffles me that he would say after all those years of development and planning just to throw it out. It me it sounded like he was reading from a script from SJ and was told what to say. I know he likes to talk in riddles but he really is not winning anybody over. What aggravates me more is that NH fans are eating it up.

To them Naruto is the greatest series that ever was, and they will latch onto any saying that will help them defend it, even if others can easily pick that statement apart.

 

See even if The Last was in development, doesn't mean Naruto was going to end up with Hinata. It's entirely plausible that NS was still going to happen and SP had him change it last minute and then they changed The Last. 

If that's true, Kishimoto is the only mangaka I'm aware of to do this. Several anime adaptations have veered away from the source material before, often times without the author's permission. Yet those authors never felt obligated to match their manga with the anime. It was always "Well, they can do what they want, but this is the CANON." 
Kishimoto could have easily said "I was well aware of the popularity of NH, but I had no interest in that pairing. So SP proposed an alternate universe movie for them, as a way for rewarding them for their support". That could have worked on some level.



#48500 winter-serenade

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 10:08 PM

There's not a lot of excuses for a lot of their scenes. The only one that's excusable is during the Kage Summit arc. Sasuke was kitten crazy. (Although interestingly enough, people use the same arc as evidence that SasuKarin is abusive, but thats none of my business...)

Edited by winter-serenade, 11 March 2018 - 10:08 PM.





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