Jump to content

Close
Photo

Am I the only one...


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#41 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,403 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 December 2014 - 03:03 AM

• Kakashi as Kage doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I expected it. However, that is because I would assume Naruto would rather not be Hokage yet, thinking it too stifling to a young man who likes to be really active and involved. Kakashi as Kage gives Naruto a chance to matrue and be mentored into the position. It also give him someone to fall back on in case things go wrong, as Kakashi's quite a bit younger than Tsunade. Yet none of this scenario is even hinted at in the manga. As Nate said, instead of Karachi stepping up to help his student make the transition, it is implied that Kakashi is doing it in Obito's stead. And I hate that as readers we're forced to accept Obito's redemption over and over again, when he is the biggest, most horrendous villain of the series. He directly caused the deaths of so many people, in such horrible ways and for such personal reasons, that he puts Kaguya, the puppet-villain, to shame. 
.

Bolded: The funny thing about this is is that Obito didn't feel he deserved redemption. He didn't do thing because he wanted redemption, he did things because he didn't want to die a monster. He felt he didn't deserve to be happy or rewarded in anyway. Which to me, kind of speaks more than people really look in to.

This is counter to Sasuke's redemption who never wanted, never tried to make up for it at all, and got everything on a silver platter. At least Obito did SOME good in his final moments.

That last line though..."He directly caused the deaths of so many people, in such horrible ways and for such personal reasons, that he puts Kaguya, the puppet-villain, to shame. " I think Kishimoto beats Obito on that one.


My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ


#42 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 10 December 2014 - 03:18 AM

Bolded: The funny thing about this is is that Obito didn't feel he deserved redemption. He didn't do thing because he wanted redemption, he did things because he didn't want to die a monster. He felt he didn't deserve to be happy or rewarded in anyway. Which to me, kind of speaks more than people really look in to.

This is counter to Sasuke's redemption who never wanted, never tried to make up for it at all, and got everything on a silver platter. At least Obito did SOME good in his final moments.

 

I hear that, James, especially after hearing how Kakashi would be there for Naruto, plus we also got the fact he likely was more motivated after Madara got his Rinnegan back AND Obito learned Madara had set up Rin's death to sway him to the dark side.

 

And in Sasuke's case, he got worse even when trying to stop Kaguya, since he was gonna let Sakura and Kakashi die, and then he went even further down Psycho St. with his agenda of a revolution, once again spitting in Itachi's face over the sacrifices he made just so he could make himself feel better...



#43 Nami

Nami

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 235 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:14 AM

@fanwoman, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

• For ShikaTema, yup, glad they were together, but I too was disappointed not to see her using her skills as a shinobi. There seems to be an unsettling undercurrent in the manga that the women's goals are fulfilled in their domestic life, not in reaching the zenith of what they've trained so hard for. Temari, Sakura, Karin, Tenten, even Hinata - these were girls who were trained fighters and killers. They weren't taking home-ec class all their childhood. So their epilogue images should correspond with the bulk of their development. 

 

Ah yes, ShikaTema! That's just about the only pairing that has some continuity that didn't end up butchered. Thank's for reminding me tricksie!

 

As for the rest of your post, I know a lot of people complain Naruto got way too serious and hard-working for...well...Naruto. And I really don't know why he seems to be working so much considering there are no wars and everything seems cool now. 

Then again, maybe this is just Naruto being nature. We did love him as a knucklehead, but I guess he had to grow up sometime, right? How many of us have dreamed of being different and changing everything, but then just ended up having a regular job and doing no different than anyone else? And it still makes us happy. I don't know, I'd like to imagine that Naruto would be happier and better off with Sakura, but maybe that's how he's supposed to be all grow up.



#44 Nar123

Nar123

    The Phantom

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:somewhere along the road of life

Posted 10 December 2014 - 10:05 AM

 
Ah yes, ShikaTema! That's just about the only pairing that has some continuity that didn't end up butchered. Thank's for reminding me tricksie!
 
As for the rest of your post, I know a lot of people complain Naruto got way too serious and hard-working for...well...Naruto. And I really don't know why he seems to be working so much considering there are no wars and everything seems cool now. 
Then again, maybe this is just Naruto being nature. We did love him as a knucklehead, but I guess he had to grow up sometime, right? How many of us have dreamed of being different and changing everything, but then just ended up having a regular job and doing no different than anyone else? And it still makes us happy. I don't know, I'd like to imagine that Naruto would be happier and better off with Sakura, but maybe that's how he's supposed to be all grow up.


Naruto was supposed to be a different kind of Kage, in the end he was just like all the others.
We don't know on what he is working for since the world is at peace(?), we don't even know if the Shinobi system still exists

What we know is that Naruto is overworked, based on what we saw at his table

                                  tumblr_obno1yoNj11suy1fso1_540.gif

 

                                                                         :eager:  Persona 5 hype     :eager:


#45 rocci

rocci

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,708 posts

Posted 10 December 2014 - 12:07 PM

Naruto was supposed to be a different kind of Kage, in the end he was just like all the others.
We don't know on what he is working for since the world is at peace(?), we don't even know if the Shinobi system still exists

What we know is that Naruto is overworked, based on what we saw at his table

Naruto condition supposed to mirror kishi condition when he become mangaka to the point he neglect his own family.
Kishi dream is to become mangaka just like naruto who want to become hokage. Turn out to be reality is different than dream.
So we could safe to say that naruto is kishi own life story.
It would be fixed in part 3.

What an awful story. I will remember you kishi as the worst mangaka ever.

#46 Nate River

Nate River

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kage
  • 5,897 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 December 2014 - 03:05 PM

Bolded: The funny thing about this is is that Obito didn't feel he deserved redemption. He didn't do thing because he wanted redemption, he did things because he didn't want to die a monster. He felt he didn't deserve to be happy or rewarded in anyway. Which to me, kind of speaks more than people really look in to.

This is counter to Sasuke's redemption who never wanted, never tried to make up for it at all, and got everything on a silver platter. At least Obito did SOME good in his final moments.

That last line though..."He directly caused the deaths of so many people, in such horrible ways and for such personal reasons, that he puts Kaguya, the puppet-villain, to shame. " I think Kishimoto beats Obito on that one.


They both suffer from the same problem. I dislike Nagato's redemption in that it wasn't very persuasive, but at least he could acknowledge that he couldn't forgive the man. At least it was semi-realistic.

As it went on, it got lazier and lazier. Kabuto was redeemed via Izanami (which made no sense and seem to exist for solely that purpose) and was done off screen. He accept his true self? Whatever the hell that was. And when and how did he do it. Well, at least it was in the nick of time to save Sasuke and put his personality in a direction he was willing to do it.

Obito did a few things to help undo the crisis he created, but it still didn't change all the people's lives he ruined getting there or that he killed Neji. Nagato couldn't be forgiven, but THIS guy is cool? Kishimoto completely glossed over his entire adult life which consisted of numerous atrocities, including settling a score against Minato when Minato didn't do anything wrong. Hey, Naruto. Your future in-law is dead because this guy wanted to prove a point to you.

Sasuke wasn't redeemed at all. He helped the ninja alliance because it was in his own self-interest to do and insulted Naruto at every turn just before attempting to be their ruler by force. There was nothing noble about what he did. It wasn't to serve some principle. It's because if he ended up in a cocoon his own dreams were toast. This was acknowledged at the end when Kakashi basically pardoned him and then Sasuke went on his journey of penance.

Oh yeah, let's not forget that a guy who fled the village to run into the arms of a traitor and who has shown a rather alarming propensity to be easily directed into less than ideal pursuits by anyone who can give a plausible story that might useful in Sasuke's goal (no matter how fishy they look is allowed to wander outside the village for extended periods of time unchecked.

Does that sound like a good idea? Of course, it doesn't, which is why it is allowed to happen.

#47 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 10 December 2014 - 05:10 PM

They both suffer from the same problem. I dislike Nagato's redemption in that it wasn't very persuasive, but at least he could acknowledge that he couldn't forgive the man. At least it was semi-realistic.

As it went on, it got lazier and lazier. Kabuto was redeemed via Izanami (which made no sense and seem to exist for solely that purpose) and was done off screen. He accept his true self? Whatever the hell that was. And when and how did he do it. Well, at least it was in the nick of time to save Sasuke and put his personality in a direction he was willing to do it.

Obito did a few things to help undo the crisis he created, but it still didn't change all the people's lives he ruined getting there or that he killed Neji. Nagato couldn't be forgiven, but THIS guy is cool? Kishimoto completely glossed over his entire adult life which consisted of numerous atrocities, including settling a score against Minato when Minato didn't do anything wrong. Hey, Naruto. Your future in-law is dead because this guy wanted to prove a point to you.

Sasuke wasn't redeemed at all. He helped the ninja alliance because it was in his own self-interest to do and insulted Naruto at every turn just before attempting to be their ruler by force. There was nothing noble about what he did. It wasn't to serve some principle. It's because if he ended up in a cocoon his own dreams were toast. This was acknowledged at the end when Kakashi basically pardoned him and then Sasuke went on his journey of penance.

Oh yeah, let's not forget that a guy who fled the village to run into the arms of a traitor and who has shown a rather alarming propensity to be easily directed into less than ideal pursuits by anyone who can give a plausible story that might useful in Sasuke's goal (no matter how fishy they look is allowed to wander outside the village for extended periods of time unchecked.

Does that sound like a good idea? Of course, it doesn't, which is why it is allowed to happen.

 

Not to mention, Nate, that Sasuke tried to kill the Biju (fruitless as it was), the Kage, insulted Sakura many times when she became helpful to defeat Kaguya, and still had killed many people in his quest just to make himself feel better, which is why his redemption didn't seem realistic. Maybe if he wasn't pardoned and wandered with Taka, I could handle it better.

 

With Obito, I think Naruto respected him because of how similar they were, but like with what Nagato did, he couldn't forgive him for the atrocities he'd caused just because Madara manipulated him. After all, you can hate someone BUT respect them for their inner self as well. It's damn dumb, but it's true.



#48 Nate River

Nate River

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kage
  • 5,897 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 December 2014 - 05:14 PM

Not to mention, Nate, that Sasuke tried to kill the Biju (fruitless as it was), the Kage, insulted Sakura many times when she became helpful to defeat Kaguya, and still had killed many people in his quest just to make himself feel better, which is why his redemption didn't seem realistic. Maybe if he wasn't pardoned and wandered with Taka, I could handle it better.
 
With Obito, I think Naruto respected him because of how similar they were, but like with what Nagato did, he couldn't forgive him for the atrocities he'd caused just because Madara manipulated him. After all, you can hate someone BUT respect them for their inner self as well. It's damn dumb, but it's true.


My point was not to dump on all of Sasuke's misdeads, just to ask...are they really okay with THAT guy wandering around unsupervised after what happened the last time?

#49 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 10 December 2014 - 05:17 PM

My point was not to dump on all of Sasuke's misdeads, just to ask...are they really okay with THAT guy wandering around unsupervised after what happened the last time?

 

No kidding, which is why I WISH, for the Love of God, that Taka had been there for him, given their willingness to return to Sasuke after all the hell he put them through, as well as the fact he seemed more at ease with them than he ever did in the Hidden Leaf Village or with Team 7. I know that that's just bad writing to ignore them, same with the fact one of the greatest villains in their world, OROCHIMARU, was alive and kicking again, even if he had helped Tsunade and the other Kage...



#50 Radra

Radra

    Genin

  • Genin
  • PipPip
  • 119 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Smiley Town

Posted 12 December 2014 - 08:37 PM

I think the epilogue was designed to be unsatisfying. 

 

It is a "clever" way to get people interested in the part 3.

 

"You want to know what happened to Taka and Orochimaru? Maybe you want to see how Sasuke and Sakura act as a family? stick around for #NarutoPARTTHREE!!" lol

 

 

So obvious lol 


Edited by Radra, 12 December 2014 - 08:40 PM.


#51 Nar123

Nar123

    The Phantom

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,609 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:somewhere along the road of life

Posted 12 December 2014 - 10:31 PM

I think the epilogue was designed to be unsatisfying. 
 
It is a "clever" way to get people interested in the part 3.
 
"You want to know what happened to Taka and Orochimaru? Maybe you want to see how Sasuke and Sakura act as a family? stick around for #NarutoPARTTHREE!!" lol
 
 
So obvious lol 


Thats one of the reasons its kitten

                                  tumblr_obno1yoNj11suy1fso1_540.gif

 

                                                                         :eager:  Persona 5 hype     :eager:


#52 Jio Freed

Jio Freed

    Academy Teacher

  • Academy Teacher
  • PipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2014 - 03:56 AM

 

I think the epilogue was designed to be unsatisfying. 
 
It is a "clever" way to get people interested in the part 3.
 
"You want to know what happened to Taka and Orochimaru? Maybe you want to see how Sasuke and Sakura act as a family? stick around for #NarutoPARTTHREE!!" lol
 
 
So obvious lol 

 

Apparently nobody wants to see that and for good reason.
His brother atleast knew how to do NS right

[img=http://oi58.tinypic.com/11qntsj.jpg[/img]

#53 James S Cassidy

James S Cassidy

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,403 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 December 2014 - 10:54 PM

They both suffer from the same problem. I dislike Nagato's redemption in that it wasn't very persuasive, but at least he could acknowledge that he couldn't forgive the man. At least it was semi-realistic.

That's kind of why I liked Obito's redemption a little better. At least he tried to make whatever he do better. Yeah he couldn't fix everything, but sometimes that happens. This is why Obito's character is so interesting to me. He has probably the best story out of all of them simply because he doesn't just magically makes things better, he doesn't just automatically get forgiven by everyone, he actually has a connection with the main character who actually sees his true pain, and he is the most developed villains of all.

He is not perfect and there are flaws, but it is actually a more realistic portrayal of a real villain trying to be good again. It is never that simple nor is forgiveness ever won that easily.

My biggest problem with Sasuke IS the fact that simply existing grants him forgiveness out of some pity.

"Im sorry." That's all he has to do and he gets everything. What a joke.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 December 2014 - 10:55 PM.

My gofundme
https://www.gofundme...c-designer-fund

Δικός σου για να κρατάτε
Σ'αγαπώ


#54 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 14 December 2014 - 12:07 AM

That's kind of why I liked Obito's redemption a little better. At least he tried to make whatever he do better. Yeah he couldn't fix everything, but sometimes that happens. This is why Obito's character is so interesting to me. He has probably the best story out of all of them simply because he doesn't just magically makes things better, he doesn't just automatically get forgiven by everyone, he actually has a connection with the main character who actually sees his true pain, and he is the most developed villains of all.

He is not perfect and there are flaws, but it is actually a more realistic portrayal of a real villain trying to be good again. It is never that simple nor is forgiveness ever won that easily.

My biggest problem with Sasuke IS the fact that simply existing grants him forgiveness out of some pity.

"Im sorry." That's all he has to do and he gets everything. What a joke.

 

Yeah, plus Obito felt REALLY bad and driven to want to make sure he didn't end a monster in the end, especially when it hurt worse when he REALIZED that Madara used his love for Rin to help sway him to the darkness. In Sasuke's case, even if he was nudged by Obito, he still chose to go after the Leaf to make himself feel better, not to mention he spat in the face of everything Itachi did to keep him safe.

And that's all I ever see what his decisions after he went to Orochimaru are; Sasuke's means to make himself feel better because deep down, he's still that scared little boy who was envious of his big brother and wanted to surpass him, which is why I think he took the easy way out rather than work his butt off like Naruto and Lee did to get stronger. 

 

Plus each decision he made after "beating" Orochimaru essentially showed for the power he had that he was a weakling since he barely survived some of his battles, and just throwing people and things away for it, showing he was just as bad as Orochimaru was, which is why I wish his redemption had been handled slowly, like realizing what an idiot he was when he learned the truth about Itachi, rather than sullying the Uchiha name further just because he didn't want to try to honor Itachi's wishes and just wanted to make himself feel better.



#55 Sakamaki Izayoi

Sakamaki Izayoi

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,679 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 December 2014 - 07:21 PM

That's kind of why I liked Obito's redemption a little better. At least he tried to make whatever he do better. Yeah he couldn't fix everything, but sometimes that happens. This is why Obito's character is so interesting to me. He has probably the best story out of all of them simply because he doesn't just magically makes things better, he doesn't just automatically get forgiven by everyone, he actually has a connection with the main character who actually sees his true pain, and he is the most developed villains of all.

He is not perfect and there are flaws, but it is actually a more realistic portrayal of a real villain trying to be good again. It is never that simple nor is forgiveness ever won that easily.

My biggest problem with Sasuke IS the fact that simply existing grants him forgiveness out of some pity.

"Im sorry." That's all he has to do and he gets everything. What a joke.

 

khvjvqw.png


SK-303_image007.jpg

#56 Aizen-Sama

Aizen-Sama

    Legendary Ninja

  • Legendary Ninja
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,097 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 18 December 2014 - 04:00 AM

In my version of events, Hinata encourages Naruto to confess to Sakura, deciding to place his happiness above her own. Naruto recognizes this and gives Hinata a deep embrace, apologizing for not saying much to her since her confession as well as thanking her for always supporting him. Naruto  then races off to go find Sakura. Hinata tearfully walks away. Kiba having watched the scene from secret, confronts her. He's irritated and demands to know what's so great about Naruto anyway. Wanting to cheer Hinata up, he accidentally confesses to having feelings of his own for Hinata. Hinata calls him out on this and Kiba, being Kiba, decides to go for broke and confess that he's always harbored feelings for Hinata and that if she gives him the chance, he'll be a far better man for her than Naruto ever could. Hinata stops crying and begins to smile. Kiba jumps for joy, sweeps Hinata off her feet and the two head off into the distance.


That's a perfect ending!! <3. It's in-character and something I can definitely see happening. Hinata still cries in order to let out her grief of letting go of Naruto but it's not the end of the world. She still has Kiba (or Shino. XD. I like her better with Shino) And she can still love Naruto but it's reverted back to an admiration/role model thing.
See things like this were possible and far more believable but SP/Kikitten chose the crap way.

#57 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 18 December 2014 - 05:14 PM

That's a perfect ending!! <3. It's in-character and something I can definitely see happening. Hinata still cries in order to let out her grief of letting go of Naruto but it's not the end of the world. She still has Kiba (or Shino. XD. I like her better with Shino) And she can still love Naruto but it's reverted back to an admiration/role model thing.
See things like this were possible and far more believable but SP/Kikitten chose the crap way.

 

I agree on that, considering Hinata doesn't know Naruto as well as she could, and I think she could be able to be best to support his feelings rather than keep holding onto hers, since Naruto did it for Sakura with Sasuke, so why couldn't Hinata do it for Naruto with Sakura?



#58 Strangelove

Strangelove

    And guess what's inside it

  • S-Class Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,766 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:All the way over in Venezuela

Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:28 PM

 

I agree on that, considering Hinata doesn't know Naruto as well as she could, and I think she could be able to be best to support his feelings rather than keep holding onto hers, since Naruto did it for Sakura with Sasuke, so why couldn't Hinata do it for Naruto with Sakura?

 

They did have...like what? 12 years of marriage and children. {What is the kid's age anyway?) To get to know each other better. But seeing as Naruto is never home...welll


tumblr_mo8pka1E1T1qflb4co1_500.gif


#59 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:30 PM

 

They did have...like what? 12 years of marriage and children. {What is the kid's age anyway?) To get to know each other better. But seeing as Naruto is never home...welll

 

No kidding, and I am NOT sure either on Bolt and Hima's ages myself. I'd say Hima's at least two years Bolt's junior, and that's it.



#60 Aizen-Sama

Aizen-Sama

    Legendary Ninja

  • Legendary Ninja
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,097 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 10 January 2015 - 06:52 AM

 
I agree on that, considering Hinata doesn't know Naruto as well as she could, and I think she could be able to be best to support his feelings rather than keep holding onto hers, since Naruto did it for Sakura with Sasuke, so why couldn't Hinata do it for Naruto with Sakura?


I still don't get how Hinata could've truly loved Naruto if she didn't know all his flaws and spent more interaction with him. The strong attachment she feels for him is not LOVE-love...it's infatuation. She's infatuated with the mystery around him and his unattainability and what he represents. That craps fades away with time and would've faded away if Naruto had married Sakura.
Unless she's stalked Naruto so much that she knows all his vices and virtues and fell in love with the real him. Though it still seems unnatural considering he barely pays attention to her. Again that's not real love it's infatuation. That's not a bad thing to have but it seems that's ALL NH has..a one-sided crush with no real strong friendship. Naruto has a stronger bond with Shikamaru for all we know so his relationship with Hinata isn't that special that fans hype it up to be. It doesn't even compare to his relationship with Sakura.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users