163 replies to this topic

[morgaine4]

 

I don't know about boring, but it's incredibly cheap.

 

The core problem is not about killing or giving life. The problem is removing the character in ways that allow Naruto to avoid having to defend his choice. As far as the manga goes, that, above all else is what I want. Naruto never has to decide what next nor deal with any the consequences for letting them live. 

 

Kishimoto obviously thinks letting him live is the more moral thing to do, but rather than taking it's most damning problem head on, he pretends it doesn't exist. Is there anyone who think that the best or more persuasive way to deal with a legitimate counter arguments is to pretend they don't exist? That's basically what he's doing,

 

it's total bull to take that stance and then cheat his way past the obvious problems with ass pulls and Deus Ex Machina.. 

 

There are a lot of things that I wish Kishi would focus on.  The idea of punishment is one of those things for sure, additionally I just wonder how Naruto is going to change this ninja world.  It seems that it's apparently magically going to change because everyone could read Naruto's thoughts and feel his awesome sense of compassion or something, but that's horrible.  How will he change the world?  How will he get a bunch of military communities to find other ways of dealing with each other?  How will he prevent the consequences of war?  How will he get said military villages to allocate enough money/resources/personnel to the ongoing victims of wars (orphans, farmers whose lands have been destroyed etc etc)?  Kishi is great with the set-up, but with the follow through...

 

But then again, this manga is written for children, so I guess it's to be expected.

[TerrorKing]

I liked the twist. Kishi was so close to pulling another pain arc ending, but then suddenly...Black Zetsu. That was actually a pretty emotional moment, especially considering the relationship he and Obito had.   

 

This makes Obito a truly tragic character. Even after being defeated, he is robbed of his one chance to make up for some of the damage he's done. Even more tragic is the fact that this was done by what could arguably be called his closest friend. 

 

I don't really like where this is going. Like others have mentioned, this seems to indicate that Sasuke will get away with everything without any real repercussions. You could say that dying is a pretty grave consequence, but it's still easier than actually owning up to your crimes. 

 

At least Obito tried to take the Darth Vader routh and actually do some good. If that's the routh Kishi has planned for Sasuke, then that would at least be somewhat acceptable. However, now that Sasuke has essentially become Madara 2.0, it seems that that is no longer the direction that Kishi intends to take the story in.       

[KnS]

Death is cheap in this series, but yeah, you should expect that. It's not an accident that Sasuke's steered away from doing things that the main cast can't overlook. Although, with the Karin getting over an attempted murder in 15 seconds, there probably isn't an atrocity the this cast can't ignore. 

 

And it's weird... think back to Naruto's reaction to Zabuza.  He was tearfully outraged at the way Zabuza treated Haku, and sickened by Zabuza's callousness.  Naruto was a lot younger then, and a lot less experienced with war and life in general, and yet he seemed to have a more defined sense of right and wrong back then.

 

Sasuke has defected, killed, plotted, betrayed, waded into the deep end of insanity and tried to kill Naruto's love, and yet when Naruto had a shot at Sasuke his priority was to say that he understood Sasuke's steaming piles of BS and was glad they were friends.  

 

Just like with Obito, Sasuke's hateful lawlessness far outweighs whatever pseudo-sympathetic motivation he's had.  I just don't get what happened to Naruto's keen sense of righteousness.

Edited by KnS, 28 November 2013 - 03:29 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I'm worried about Sai, i'm hoping he doesnt die because if he dies its will get real the chance of Sasuke going back to the team 7.

That is also true. Hm, well, we just have to wait and see what's going to happen next. I don't think he will, but I will continue to think the opposite. I think the ideal is if Madara is this strong, everyone who are just the alliance will have their ass kicked. At the same time, I'm still thinking where is Yamato in all this. Anyway, I don't think it should be the case, so either don't worry too much or just wait and see. I don't know what would benefit from his death though. Neji was made to connect everyone as well as making him coming to full circle. If anything, Kishi just wants Obito to die only in the next chapter. Well that is if he does die in the next chapter. He could be losing power and start dying out. I don't know. Next chapter would be the impact moment, so all bets are off.

[morgaine4]

 

 

And it's weird... think back to Naruto's reaction to Zabuza.  He was tearfully outraged at the way Zabuza treated Haku, and sickened by Zabuza's callousness.  Naruto was a lot younger then, and a lot less experienced with war and life in general, and yet he seemed to have a more defined sense of right and wrong back then.

 

Sasuke has defected, killed, plotted, betrayed, waded into the deep end of insanity and tried to kill Naruto's love, and yet when Naruto had a shot at Sasuke his priority was to say that he understood Sasuke's steaming piles of BS and was glad they were friends.  

 

Just like with Obito, Sasuke's hateful lawlessness far outweighs whatever pseudo-sympathetic motivation he's had.  I just don't get what happened to Naruto's keen sense of righteousness.

 

 

Nothing happened to Naruto's sense of righteousness, it's still intact and as powerful as ever, it's just that as he has grown, as he's had more experiences, and as he has learned of the experiences of others his target has changed from individual perpetrators of crimes (as it was during his interaction with Zabuza) to the system that produces these perpetrators.  He has targeted the system over individual perpetrators/criminals since Team 7's conversation by Haku and Zabuza's graves.  And let's not forget, the creepiness of Zabuza (and, he is such a creeeeeeepy character) had been forgotten nearly immediately after he acknowledged his bond with Haku.  That's his goal with Sasuke, to try to get Sasuke to acknowledge his bonds  (or his living bonds).  I really don't think he's changed so much, he's not as simple as he used to be, but isn't that a good thing?  I wouldn't want an almost 17 year old Naruto to be as naïve as his 12 year old self, to be as unaware of the effects of a world in which children to kill, and are ordered to annihilate their families (that makes me sound like an Itachi fan, I'm really not).

[Nostradamus]

Didn't I say Tobi is a good boy, just check my avatar. So I was right Obito was going to revive everyone, well I was partially right. Now the revival of everyone can still happen since we got new information that the Juubi's Jinchuuriki won't die after he loses the Juubi. So a couple of things could happen, either Obito brings back everyone else later on or perhaps he already did when he revived Madara, we don't really know since we only saw Madara brought back to life. Now I'm curious about Madara because since he is alive, he doesn't have infinite chakra and he can die so he must have an ace up his sleeve. Also he is outmatched the only way he could pose a threat is to seal Hashirama or take control of him somehow.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Didn't I say Tobi is a good boy, just check my avatar. So I was right Obito was going to revive everyone, well I was partially right. Now the revival of everyone can still happen since we got new information that the Juubi's Jinchuuriki won't die after he loses the Juubi. So a couple of things could happen, either Obito brings back everyone else later on or perhaps he already did when he revived Madara, we don't really know since we only saw Madara brought back to life. Now I'm curious about Madara because since he is alive, he doesn't have infinite chakra and he can die so he must have an ace up his sleeve. Also he is outmatched the only way he could pose a threat is to seal Hashirama or take control of him somehow.

Minato can give chakra to him.

Madara reviving opens the possibility of Sasuke obtaining the rinnegan.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 November 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[T XD]

Finally, Madara attacks Obito, but Madara becoming human again is something I didn't expect this much.

 

For now, I don't think Obito is dead. I think he will somehow make Madara weaker or attack him surprisingly. The battle is going to be more intense than ever XD

 

The tree will be at its last step for the plan to be succeed before it's destroyed.

[Strangelove]

So Madara's plan...was to make himself mortal?

 

 

Wow...nice one...kind of dumb, but let's see how this ends up.

 

 

On another note...I think Obito is dead. He is greatly weakened, and he just perform a revival jutsu. Yeah he is dead, and with that go out the ObiRin parallel we were hoping.

 

 

Edit: I don't know why...but I feel like Madara is the Brain...and Obito was Pinky...

Edited by Strangelove, 28 November 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[Nostradamus]

@Dαrkrєrsŧ True Minato can give him chakra but the question is why? I mean he has the Gedo Mazo inside of him so why would he need chakra? Unless the Gedo Mazo's life force is different than chakra. And how exactly does Madara's revival open the possibility of Sasuke getting the rinnegan?

Edited by Nostradamus, 28 November 2013 - 11:02 PM.

[LadyGT]

what if Obito partly revived someone? If so then I would bet it's Jiraiya.

[Kster95]

what if Obito partly revived someone? If so then I would bet it's Jiraiya.

 

That would be awesome, but I doubt it. If Jiraiya is alive it would prob be by someone rescuing him from the bottom of the ocean, and he has just been healing his injuries this whole time. If he was partly reviving someone wouldn't he revive Rin? 

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

@Dαrkrєrsŧ True Minato can give him chakra but the question is why? I mean he has the Gedo Mazo inside of him so why would he need chakra? Unless the Gedo Mazo's life force is different than chakra. And how exactly does Madara's revival open the possibility of Sasuke getting the rinnegan?

Because Friendship is the strongest jutsu in Naruto.

Second Kyuubi's chakra is full of lifeforce too, just look at when Naruto was training and Yamato pointed out that the life force of Kurama's chakra was making his mokuton jutsu stronger, and later when he turned the zetsus into trees.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 28 November 2013 - 11:16 PM.

[LadyGT]

 

That would be awesome, but I doubt it. If Jiraiya is alive it would prob be by someone rescuing him from the bottom of the ocean, and he has just been healing his injuries this whole time. If he was partly reviving someone wouldn't he revive Rin? 

Gamabunta is somewhere doing something according to Gamakichi.

[Kster95]

Gamabunta is somewhere doing something according to Gamakichi.

 

Yes the battle to determine the fate of the world, and he is busy lol Also Kabuto has suigestu's hydrafication technique so it really couldn't have been hard to find Jirayia unless his body wasn't there. 

Edited by Kster95, 28 November 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Gamabunta is somewhere doing something according to Gamakichi.

B..But Jiraiya lose to Pain?? what else he can do here?

[Kster95]

B..But Jiraiya lose to Pain?? what else he can do here?

 

Be quiet, he taught the child of prophecy so HA!

 

Edit: Naruto prob would have to but he had intel on Pain's techs

Edited by Kster95, 28 November 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[sushi.]

what if Obito partly revived someone? If so then I would bet it's Jiraiya.

Why does so many people think that? : (

 

Obito has no connection to Jiraiya. It was his sensei's sensei..yeah, very distant as far as we know. Besides, Jiraiya's story is closed and Naruto mourned for his loss. I don't want it to be no loss.

Edited by sushi., 29 November 2013 - 12:01 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Why does so many people think that? : (

 

Obito has no connection to Jiraiya. It was his sensei's sensei..yeah, very distant as far as we know. Besides, Jiraiya's story is closed and Naruto mourned for his loss. I don't want it to be no loss.

The only thing i never understood is Kabuto wanted ot bring up ninjas who also could affect others on a personal level, like putting them to fight their former friends and etc...

Like he did with Dan and others, but for some reason he didnt went after Kushina who could strongly affect Naruto and can also supress the kyuubi chakra and make it's capture easier, he said he could not pick up Jiraiya's body but didnt said a word about Kushina.

 

It looks like Kishi wants to try to explain something logically but fails so hard that it ends up only being "plot" reasons.

Like, Jiraiya is there on the bottom of the sea, but what about reverse summon? kabuto's Manda can go very deep in sea, but the hidden rain village has no sea!

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 29 November 2013 - 12:35 AM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I did like how he managed to say that Jiraiya's idea of peace actually is the true victor, rather a source from another (Naruto). After all, he is the one that carries Jiraiya's will of peace. As for revival, well I still don't know the limitation on the revival, like can it only work with physical presence or at anytime.