54175 replies to this topic

[Kagomaru]

Yet another reason why I don't take TV Tropes into account as a reliable and objective source of info when they label certain characters under tropes due to their own biases: On their Character Shilling page, The editors accuse Kishimoto and the characters of the manga of character shilling Sakura, stating that while the narrative makes her seem like she's become a much stronger ninja in Shippuden than before the timeskip(which she has), they claim that she's still useless and coddled outside of her healing abilities. Yes, because having the ability to keep your allies alive and healthy is definitely a useless skill in battle and war. Never mind that she's ridiculously strong thanks to her chakra control, that she managed to defeat an Akatsuki nin albeit with help from Chiyo, the various instances she's helped her allies through her medical ninjutsu, and her contributions in the Fourth Ninja War. The hypocrisy is hilarious to me that they single out Sakura as a shill, but not Hinata, who is shilled by Studio Pierrot, the editors of Shueisha and the fanbase itself, despite the fact she is a one-dimensional wallflower who never accomplishes anything, is never useful in a fight (save a one-time instance of an inexplicable power-up in the movie that is never seen or even mentioned again) and is only worshipped because she has a submissive attitude, lusts after Naruto and is essentially eye-candy.  Needless to say, I erased her from that article.
 
(OT: but they also pulled that kitten with Kairi from KH on the same page and ignored how she saved Sora's life throughout all three of the main games with her powers and helped kick Xehanort's ass in KH3 Re:Mind).

Edited by Kagomaru, 13 May 2021 - 01:22 AM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

I do hate when they say that a doctor and healer is useless.

But I believe in karma and giving the pandemic the world is in right now and they still call her useless, not to mention the threat of China, I mean people are saying a war is coming. And when it happens many NH fans will see how much you need a medic.

I mean my grandfather fought in the war and he had a great respect for the medical staff in the army.

[Phantom_999]

Yet another reason why I don't take TV Tropes into account as a reliable source of info when they label certain characters under tropes due to their own biases: On their Character Shilling page, The editors accuse Kishimoto and the characters of the manga of character shilling Sakura, stating that while the narrative makes her seem like she's become a much stronger ninja in Shippuden than before the timeskip(which she has), they claim that she's still useless and coddled outside of her healing abilities. Yes, because having the ability to keep your allies alive and healthy is definitely a useless skill in battle and war. Never mind that she's ridiculously strong thanks to her chakra control, that she managed to defeat an Akatsuki nin albeit with help from Chiyo, the various instances she's helped her allies through her medical ninjutsu, and her contributions in the Fourth Ninja War. The hypocrisy is hilarious to me that they single out Sakura as a shill, but not Hinata, who is shilled by Studio Pierrot, the editors of Shueisha and the fanbase itself, despite the fact she is a one-dimensional wallflower who never accomplishes anything, is never useful in a fight (save a one-time instance of an inexplicable power-up in the movie that is never seen or even mentioned again) and is only worshipped because she has a submissive attitude, lusts after Naruto and is essentially eye-candy.  Needless to say, I erased her from that article.
 
(OT: but they also pulled that kitten with Kairi from KH on the same page and ignored how she saved Sora's life throughout all three of the main games with her powers and helped kick Xehanort's ass in KH3 Re:Mind).

They also made this assessment that any Shipping moments between Naruto and Sakura negatively impacted their characters. Or how about that Narutos love for Hinata is an exceptional one because He did not pick a woman similar to his mother. guess they don't watch the Boruto anime then   Not sure if those 2 examples are still there since I did not look at them in forever due to reeking of damn double standard kitten but it was the "Naruto ship tease page", and "true love is exceptional" trope

Edited by Phantom_999, 17 July 2021 - 03:30 PM.

[DrK]

They also made this assessment that any Shipping moments between Naruto and Sakura negatively impacted their characters. Or how about that Narutos love for Hinata is an exceptional one because He did not pick a woman similar to his mother.

Would have worked a lot better story wise if Kushina hadn't explicitly told him to do so...

[Phantom_999]

Exactly.

[Moon_Girl]

 

That IS the issue. SP is still keeping it afloat and so is Shueisha. Is it any wonder that Boruto never got the axe despite its abysmal sales for being the sequel to one of the world's most popular manga? Besides, being cancelled or being ongoing cancelled ongoing doesn't matter to me to me. They're not getting MY money anymore that's for sure. I'm just just waiting for any news annd just taking it for what it is, and if it so happens that they are being dragged through the mud even more, then I have the satisfaction of saying "well I saw that coming" lmao

 

 

 

What's funny is that we got the forewarning already with the release of the last Naruto chapters. I knew that any hope of NaruSaku was busted the moment that those daggers to my heart called chapters 699-700 came out, so I didn't even bother with the movie. I even contemplated on how to get rid of all the Naruto stuff I bought for three years after the manga ended until I just threw it all in the recycling bin in 2017 in favor of collecting Black Clover volumes. And BOY did I feel better afterwards I only regret I didn't toss them in the garbage where they belong. But hey, I'm trying to reduce garbage throwing "in my household" 

I'm trying to recall if the teasing line was before or after the ending. I think it was before the manga ending. I didn't get my hopes up once ch 699-700 came out either. The very night those two chapters came out, I got rid of my Naruto collection. 

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

What should have happened

[Phantom_999]

Too bad the creator was either dimwitted enough to not even understand the implications or non verbal expectations he put into that relationship or he was gullible enough and is such an airhead to actually go along with the last second waifu switch. Either way it SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED. IT DIDN'T.

Edited by Phantom_999, 17 May 2021 - 12:50 AM.

[catsi563]

Animated version

 

[RedFaction]

It's too bad that wasn't allowed to happen. NaruSaku was treated with disdain by the rest of the Naruto fandom and in the canon itself too post chapter 698. It really seemed like everything was done in a very hostile and belligerent way to destroy any possibility of them as a couple or even as friends really.

 

I don't think we'll see a pairing in any media treated as badly as NaruSaku for quite some time.

Edited by RedFaction, 13 May 2021 - 07:22 PM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

It's too bad that wasn't allowed to happen. NaruSaku was treated with disdain by the rest of the Naruto fandom and in the canon itself too post chapter 698. It really seemed like everything was done in a very hostile and belligerent way to destroy any possibility of them as a couple or even as friends really.

 

I don't think we'll see a pairing in any media treated as badly as NaruSaku for quite some time.

And I don't think we ever will, as most writers that do books know what they are doing.

 

However, what is sad and makes gets to me is me angry because the NH fans still think that Kishi planned this when Kishimoto said in other interviews that he forgot to add it or didn't know how to end an arc.

 

And they keep on saying he planned the pairing since the start while we know since four known interviews that say otherwise. But it seems they always pick the one he said he planned it from the start.

 

I think that the main reason we have so many attacking us who bring up that the ending makes no sense; they know the truth that Kishi rushed it. And they hate we know the truth, even after the ending, people like Tokai and RetrospectGreg and others as they still go after them.

[BlueStarSaber]

Who is Tokai?

[Bail o' Lies]

No typo. Per oricon chart, volume 14 debuted at 45k (3 days). Link below (it's in Japanese, but you can scroll down a bit and see Boruto at rank 9, with 45,599 copies over 3 days).

https://www.oricon.c...c/w/2021-05-10/

As for volume 13, It was debuted at 90k (7 days)

Someone posted in Reddit and mentioned it was the lowest debut ranking, although having a full 7 days in the period.

https://www.reddit.c...utm_name=iossmf

As a comparison, Naruto debut sales during its heyday was peaked above one million copies in some of its volumes.

Although LTD (lifetime to date) sales is more important, such information is not available publicly.

Debut sales / first week sales is important since it's a proxy indicator of readers stickiness. These are mostly the loyal folks who wait for new volumes to come out and immediately get it from retail or subscription.

Imagine you had a manga that sold more than a million copies in its debut sales, you change the direction and now with your name embedded into it, its debut sales is merely 45k.

That's not even 5 percent of what you used to have.

I can imagine the staff at Naruto franchise is in turmoil, fingers pinpointing each others and they're trying to find someone to blame (which, turns out that someone to blame was Kodachi, the previous writer of Boruto. He got fired).

I mean, who wouldn't flip?

You were running a profitable manga series. It's always in the top 3 or top 5 for the past 15 years. Someone told you going a certain way will improve your profit. You took that advice. All of sudden you no longer enjoyed the same profit, and even struggling to be in the top 50 thanks to the new direction.

Kishimoto's return won't magically improve the sales significantly. That's a fact and it's proven with Boruto volume 14 sales.

Any ups and downs of the manga is driven by forecast and actual sales of the recent volumes. Therefore you didn't see immediate drop to 45k when the 1st volume of Boruto came out. It's a slow and painful decline for the producers.

Right misread that. So after a boost for a single volume, it was immediately cut in half by the next. That does not look good.

 

No one can really fix Boruto at this point because the story is too set; SNS conflict with the most liked character being off to the sidelines. At best they can do what Kishi has done which is marginal improvements.

 

I would laugh if Boruto got cancelled next because it was not selling all that well, only problem is SP they will try to keep it going because they cant admit that maybe NH wasn't a good idea.

It not going to get cancelled because they are still making money of licensing. It more corporates inertia, they are already producing a product and don't see enough benefit to either cancelling it or changing to another product. It will end when it ends.

 

Oh gosh, that whole debacle. That was a horrible thing they did. Purposely teased Team 7 AND NaruSaku, zero Hinata to be seen, to get the pre-sale tickets and then go 'sike!" and refuse refunds. Aside from getting their reputation dragged through the mud, they really should have gotten some sort of punishment for that. I really wish they did. That was seriously awful. 
I still remember the teasing line: "Sakura has really become more beautiful. Surely Naruto..."

Which should have been a warning sign that what their were about to do was a bad idea, but once a corporation gets an idea they tend to stick to it.

 

Yet another reason why I don't take TV Tropes into account as a reliable and objective source of info when they label certain characters under tropes due to their own biases: On their Character Shilling page, The editors accuse Kishimoto and the characters of the manga of character shilling Sakura, stating that while the narrative makes her seem like she's become a much stronger ninja in Shippuden than before the timeskip(which she has), they claim that she's still useless and coddled outside of her healing abilities. Yes, because having the ability to keep your allies alive and healthy is definitely a useless skill in battle and war. Never mind that she's ridiculously strong thanks to her chakra control, that she managed to defeat an Akatsuki nin albeit with help from Chiyo, the various instances she's helped her allies through her medical ninjutsu, and her contributions in the Fourth Ninja War. The hypocrisy is hilarious to me that they single out Sakura as a shill, but not Hinata, who is shilled by Studio Pierrot, the editors of Shueisha and the fanbase itself, despite the fact she is a one-dimensional wallflower who never accomplishes anything, is never useful in a fight (save a one-time instance of an inexplicable power-up in the movie that is never seen or even mentioned again) and is only worshipped because she has a submissive attitude, lusts after Naruto and is essentially eye-candy.  Needless to say, I erased her from that article.
 
(OT: but they also pulled that kitten with Kairi from KH on the same page and ignored how she saved Sora's life throughout all three of the main games with her powers and helped kick Xehanort's ass in KH3 Re:Mind).

Honestly Sakura had such a low bar because of part one that she did see improvements in the jump to part two,

 

Her punches are powerful no one in the manga denies that if she hit them it would be devastating. The problem is her punches were strong so she wasn't really allowed to hit the villains because she would knock them out. That why I say she needed something else like Wood release so she could use it to try to bind people or something.

 

Didn't an omake of the anime pretty much had Naruto admitting that Hinata had a large number of supporters in the anime staff?

 

I do hate when they say that a doctor and healer is useless.

But I believe in karma and giving the pandemic the world is in right now and they still call her useless, not to mention the threat of China, I mean people are saying a war is coming. And when it happens many NH fans will see how much you need a medic.

I mean my grandfather fought in the war and he had a great respect for the medical staff in the army.

It didn't help that after Naruto went fourth tail while she was healing him she thought that she wasn't doing much more then Naruto's natural regeneration was already doing. Which made people think her healing was useless instead of she was keeping Naruto from dying from his skin being burnt off.

 

Same with Orohime she has a shield the can block a single attack, a single offensive move that attacks in a predictable straight line, and a healing ability that can restore people even if they been atomized. Yet they demand she be on the front line fighting people?!

 

 

It's too bad that wasn't allowed to happen. NaruSaku was treated with disdain by the rest of the Naruto fandom and in the canon itself too post chapter 698. It really seemed like everything was done in a very hostile and belligerent way to destroy any possibility of them as a couple or even as friends really.

 

I don't think we'll see a pairing in any media treated as badly as NaruSaku for quite some time.

 

And I don't think we ever will, as most writers that do books know what they are doing.

 

However, what is sad and makes gets to me is me angry because the NH fans still think that Kishi planned this when Kishimoto said in other interviews that he forgot to add it or didn't know how to end an arc.

 

And they keep on saying he planned the pairing since the start while we know since four known interviews that say otherwise. But it seems they always pick the one he said he planned it from the start.

 

I think that the main reason we have so many attacking us who bring up that the ending makes no sense; they know the truth that Kishi rushed it. And they hate we know the truth, even after the ending, people like Tokai and RetrospectGreg and others as they still go after them.

Which is a problem with in the structure of the story itself. Sakura is apart of Team 7, you know the thing the main character spent all of part two trying to get back together because it was so important?! She in part two was Naruto's best friend beside maybe Shikamaru. She is the mother of Sarada the person what want to be Hokage and Boruto has sworn to dedicate his life to serving as her Danzo. Yet, she suddenly is unimportant, why? If it was planned all along nothing should have changed? But of course it did. She went from the heroine and love interest to awkward leftover. Not helped that sales been declining ever since.

 

Most people know that Kishimoto didn't plan it those that say otherwise are: stupid, ignorant, indifferent, or going along with it. 

Who is Tokai?

...I have no clue. I guess a youtuber. But I can't find them. First Evil link to who you are talking about.

[RedFaction]

Tokai is the person who has been writing the Alternative the Last doushinji for the past few years on deviantart.

[NaruSaku fan in Kentucky]

You know if NS was canon then their sex life would be a good running gag.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Yeah, Tokai2000

 

This guy https://www.deviantart.com/tokai2000

 

The one that's been doing the Naruto Doujin: Alternative The Last.

[BlueStarSaber]

Oh yeah forgot the person's name

[Nostradamus]

I don't think we'll see a pairing in any media treated as badly as NaruSaku for quite some time.

I beg to differ.

This is from a show I loved.

How it started: https://joexjuliana....ene-its-me-okay

How it continued: https://joexjuliana....-you-changed-me - After this they were separated and he thought she was dead.

When they reunited: https://joexjuliana....st/189574665643

and https://joexjuliana....oincidence-then

 

And how it ended right after they reunited: https://joexjuliana....st/182401741443

and

https://joexjuliana....to-do-requested

This destroyed me. This is also what caused the show to be cancelled.

 

So yeah. This happened because the creator was fired and someone else took over.

 

[RedFaction]

I beg to differ.

This is from a show I loved.

How it started: https://joexjuliana....ene-its-me-okay

How it continued: https://joexjuliana....-you-changed-me - After this they were separated and he thought she was dead.

When they reunited: https://joexjuliana....st/189574665643

and https://joexjuliana....oincidence-then

 

And how it ended right after they reunited: https://joexjuliana....st/182401741443

and

https://joexjuliana....to-do-requested

This destroyed me. This is also what caused the show to be cancelled.

 

So yeah. This happened because the creator was fired and someone else took over.

 

Yes, I was an advent watcher of The Man in the High Castle as well. I wasn't invested into any shipping in the series, since I'm never going to allow myself to get invested into a ship again the way I was with NaruSaku after Naruto and Sakura were completely destroyed. You just never know what the author is going to do in the end, even if it may seem obvious. Though, I did think that Joe and Juliana would get together by the end. I was wrong lol.

 

But that was at least a TV series that lasted only 4 seasons. We had Naruto around for 15 years and Kishimoto as the creator and writer throughout the whole thing and he allowed his characters to be destroyed for good with the ending and post-ending content. He clearly still has no regrets or shame since he just came back to start writing Boruto. 

[Nostradamus]

Yes, I was an advent watcher of The Man in the High Castle as well. I wasn't invested into any shipping in the series, since I'm never going to allow myself to get invested into a ship again the way I was with NaruSaku after Naruto and Sakura were completely destroyed. You just never know what the author is going to do in the end, even if it may seem obvious. Though, I did think that Joe and Juliana would get together by the end. I was wrong lol.

 

But that was at least a TV series that lasted only 4 seasons. We had Naruto around for 15 years and Kishimoto as the creator and writer throughout the whole thing and he allowed his characters to be destroyed for good with the ending and post-ending content. He clearly still has no regrets or shame since he just came back to start writing Boruto. 

I did not expect another viewer of the show since it was kind of unknown show and niche. Did you finish it? After season 3 I stopped.

I made the mistake of investing myself in this ship mostly because of the actors. They had amazing chemistry plus Frank Spotnitz's of telling their story intrigued me. Spotnitz was the creator, showrunner and main writer.

In terms of longevity yeah you're right. Naruto had 15 years and all was destroyed in weeks. It had a lot of impact due to being so long and being apart of people's lives for all this time. Imagine starting reading the manga as a kid when it came out and then 15 years later you read the last 10 chapters and watch the last movie and then everything else that came after them.