31579 replies to this topic

[jak123]

all I have to say about that boruto game is screw that game and even remotely supporting boruto, I'd rather play the dragon ball xenoverse 2 dlc coming out tomorrow, and then play the game with mods on pc. xenoverse 2 on pc is so much fun offline with mods.

I still need to play Xenoverse 2, but I wanted to wait for all the DLC to drop for it and maybe get a deal for everything. I really enjoyed Xenoverse 1.

[winter-serenade]

I was rereading Naruto and was reminded of how terrible of a job Hiruzen did with Orochimaru. He let him off the hook despite clearly seeing him do human experimentation and putting the pieces together that he was behind the disappearances of some Leaf citizens. Hiruzen inspired Orochimaru to seek rebirth and immortality, as seen in the flashback when Sasuke faces Orochimaru.

Also, Naruto, despite going ballistic over Orochimaru claiming Sasuke as his, and despising him for causing Sasuke to leave Konoha, doesn’t order for Orochimaru to be locked up or executed? Does anyone know his status, because correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s locked up or anything. Very confused.

[jak123]

I was rereading Naruto and was reminded of how terrible of a job Hiruzen did with Orochimaru. He let him off the hook despite clearly seeing him do human experimentation and putting the pieces together that he was behind the disappearances of some Leaf citizens. Hiruzen inspired Orochimaru to seek rebirth and immortality, as seen in the flashback when Sasuke faces Orochimaru.

Also, Naruto, despite going ballistic over Orochimaru claiming Sasuke as his, and despising him for causing Sasuke to leave Konoha, doesn’t order for Orochimaru to be locked up or executed? Does anyone know his status, because correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s locked up or anything. Very confused.

And then Orochimaru is still around even when Naruto is Hokage. Kishimoto dropped the ball with alot of side plots in Naruto.

[Derock]

And then Orochimaru is still around even when Naruto is Hokage. Kishimoto dropped the ball with alot of side plots in Naruto.

 

Not to mention that he achieved his goal, gaining immortality.

[jak123]

 

Not to mention that he achieved his goal, gaining immortality.

I hated how he just turns good during the war.

[DrK]

I was rereading Naruto and was reminded of how terrible of a job Hiruzen did with Orochimaru. He let him off the hook despite clearly seeing him do human experimentation and putting the pieces together that he was behind the disappearances of some Leaf citizens. Hiruzen inspired Orochimaru to seek rebirth and immortality, as seen in the flashback when Sasuke faces Orochimaru.

Also, Naruto, despite going ballistic over Orochimaru claiming Sasuke as his, and despising him for causing Sasuke to leave Konoha, doesn’t order for Orochimaru to be locked up or executed? Does anyone know his status, because correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s locked up or anything. Very confused.

Orochimaru still does experiments on people. That's how Mitsuki, Boruto and Sarada's teammate, was created afaik. It was really hard to remember what his name was because I just don't have it in me to care at all about this crap.

Edited by DrK, 28 August 2018 - 02:58 AM.

[gamma]

And another side plot: was there any mention of what happened to the other tailed beasts (excluding Kurama) and their jinchuurikis? Or are there news ones? (Is this answered in Boruto as yet? I don’t follow it.)

Is it possible for tailed beasts to simply disappear? And what happens if they “died”?

[jak123]

And another side plot: was there any mention of what happened to the other tailed beasts (excluding Kurama) and their jinchuurikis? Or are there news ones? (Is this answered in Boruto as yet? I don’t follow it.)

Is it possible for tailed beasts to simply disappear? And what happens if they “died”?

Who knows. Like I said, there were alot of plots that didn't go anywhere and had no conclusions because of how terrible the last arc was.

[Bail o' Lies]

And another side plot: was there any mention of what happened to the other tailed beasts (excluding Kurama) and their jinchuurikis? Or are there news ones? (Is this answered in Boruto as yet? I don’t follow it.)

Is it possible for tailed beasts to simply disappear? And what happens if they “died”?

Near the end of Naruto before Sasuke took control of them; it sounded like a lot of them went back to their old territory except for Gyuki, and Kurama who decided to stay with their still living host till they pass on, but can't wait for Naruto to decide to pass on the kyuubi to Boruto for some reason if it happens.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 28 August 2018 - 02:59 PM.

[ultranx]

I still need to play Xenoverse 2, but I wanted to wait for all the DLC to drop for it and maybe get a deal for everything. I really enjoyed Xenoverse 1.

you'll definitely enjoy it when you play it then, the dlc content is much better than xenoverse 1, plus better hub world, no infinite ki spam, etc. as for story arcs, normal game story covers saiyan saga to resurrection f then final battle, then of course the secret story arcs like how xenoverse 1 had the bardock and broly story. dlc so far has covered universe 6 tournament, goku black arc, and then had a unique infinite history arc with multiple different endings. usually every 2nd dlc pack has a story arc.

Edited by ultranx, 30 August 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Checking on shinobi strikers put Naruto back on my recommended list on youtube.

 

Well here is something people can watch and talk about:

 

 

This guy apparently done 13 videos on Naruto like this. Oh this is could be awful:

 

 

[ree]

Someone know something about narusaku zain I think its named so. What happened is it sale or not? Im a little courios about it

Edited by ree, 08 September 2018 - 01:03 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I was rereading Naruto and was reminded of how terrible of a job Hiruzen did with Orochimaru. He let him off the hook despite clearly seeing him do human experimentation and putting the pieces together that he was behind the disappearances of some Leaf citizens. Hiruzen inspired Orochimaru to seek rebirth and immortality, as seen in the flashback when Sasuke faces Orochimaru.

Also, Naruto, despite going ballistic over Orochimaru claiming Sasuke as his, and despising him for causing Sasuke to leave Konoha, doesn’t order for Orochimaru to be locked up or executed? Does anyone know his status, because correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s locked up or anything. Very confused.

 

Not so confusing when you remember we are not talking about Naruto anymore. That short-hair &%#*@$$ scumbag is not Naruto, he is a plot device to knock up Hinata because Naruto WOULDN'T, and to make the Boruto franchise come to life. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 13 September 2018 - 11:35 PM.

[tricksie]

I was rereading Naruto and was reminded of how terrible of a job Hiruzen did with Orochimaru. He let him off the hook despite clearly seeing him do human experimentation and putting the pieces together that he was behind the disappearances of some Leaf citizens. Hiruzen inspired Orochimaru to seek rebirth and immortality, as seen in the flashback when Sasuke faces Orochimaru.

Also, Naruto, despite going ballistic over Orochimaru claiming Sasuke as his, and despising him for causing Sasuke to leave Konoha, doesn’t order for Orochimaru to be locked up or executed? Does anyone know his status, because correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think he’s locked up or anything. Very confused.

 

Yes - Orochimaru's character and background is just a mess. He's not even a villain who get's redeemed. Or a double-agent plot device. He is just a villain in part one who gets recycled for Boruto.

 

And wasn't he the choice to succeed Hiruzen? Not Jiraiya? Because wasn't Jiraiya the screw up and Orochimaru was the golden child on their team. I would have loved to have seen a series devoted to them. Soooo many unanswered questions there. 

 

Also would have tied in nicely with the theme that not fixing your problems just means they get handed down to your children to get fixed. Some characters might learn from their past and be redeemed, while others (like Madara) might come back to try and destroy everything again. This would have really driven home how important it was for Team 7 to wipe out the past once and for all.

[Bail o' Lies]

Yes - Orochimaru's character and background is just a mess. He's not even a villain who get's redeemed. Or a double-agent plot device. He is just a villain in part one who gets recycled for Boruto.

 

And wasn't he the choice to succeed Hiruzen? Not Jiraiya? Because wasn't Jiraiya the screw up and Orochimaru was the golden child on their team. I would have loved to have seen a series devoted to them. Soooo many unanswered questions there. 

 

Also would have tied in nicely with the theme that not fixing your problems just means they get handed down to your children to get fixed. Some characters might learn from their past and be redeemed, while others (like Madara) might come back to try and destroy everything again. This would have really driven home how important it was for Team 7 to wipe out the past once and for all.

The impression I got was that Jiraiya turned down the offer of becoming hokage in favor of Minato. Orochimaru was once a good man before he became obsessed with immortality & knowledge, and was once Sarutobi's star pupil.

 

Orochimaru was a villain in part one but that was over once he was defeated by Tsunade allowing her to surpass the previous hokage by defeating him. But he couldn't be killed because he was the one that was going to train Sasuke, and the reason he leaves the village. So he stays around till he is defeated by Sasuke once he done training him, and sealed by Itachi once even his power was no longer needed. So that was the end of him.

 

However during the war arc someone got the bright idea that it would be great if some revived the old hokage, and had them join the good guys. However, not many people knew the resurrection technique. They couldn't use Kabuto because he needed to be defeated by Sasuke for his flip-flop again. So they brought back Orochimaru who knew the jutsu, and conveniently knew how to revive the hokage without grave-digging. So despite being a villain the was still evil, as well as still desiring Sasuke's body, but its the end of the world so he is helping the good guys. So he because a bored aid to Sasuke that help save the world, and because the story ends before they can deal with him. He is let go.

 

Then with the new series coming out they needed a third team member (clearly the lee clone was not good enough.) So an executive decision because orochimaru is popular, kishimoto out of spite, or someone thought it was a great idea; I don't know. Someone decided that Orochiumaru's son should be the third team-member allowing Orochimaru to remain relevant to the story. Though I doubt theme's were involved what so ever. Those were abandon with the rest of the story for Hinata.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 17 November 2018 - 03:56 AM.

[KClaws_2]

The impression I got was that Jiraiya turned down the offer of becoming hokage in favor of Minato. Orochimaru was once a good man before he became obsessed with immortality & knowledge, and was once Sarutobi's star pupil.

 

Orochimaru was a villain in part one but that was over once he was defeated by Tsunade allowing her to surpass the previous hokage by defeating him. But he couldn't be killed because he was the one that was going to train Sasuke, and the reason he leaves the village. So he stays around till he is defeated by Sasuke once he done training him, and sealed by Itachi once even his power was no longer needed. So that was the end of him.

 

However during the war arc someone got the bright idea that it would be great if some revived the old hokage, and had them join the good guys. However, not many people knew the resurrection technique. They couldn't use Kabuto because he needed to be defeated by Sasuke for his flip-flop again. So they brought back Orochimaru who knew the jutsu, and conveniently knew how to revive the hokage without grave-digging. So despite being a villain the was still evil, as well as still desiring Sasuke's body, but its the end of the world so he is helping the good guys. So he becoes a bored aid to Sasuke that help save the world, and because the story ends before they can deal with him. He is let go.

 

Then with the new series coming out they needed a third team member (clearly the lee clone was not good enough.) So an executive decision because orochimaru is popular, kishimoto out of spite, or someone thought it was a great idea; I don't know. Someone decided that Orochiumaru's son should be the third team-member allowing Orochimaru to remain relevant to the story. Though I doubt theme's were involved what so ever. Those were abandon with the rest of the story for Hinata.

When you put it that way, that sums it up.

 

I feel like they didn't know what direction they wanted to take Orochimaru...kind of like everything else in this series...

 

Anyway, when Orochimaru first appeared, he was a monster of pure evil. It was clear he was being paralleled with Sasuke, and I thought that was pretty well done. It seemed consistent up until the Taka arc. He becomes a snake, tried to devour Sasuke, and gets sealed. He breaks free and gets sealed AGAIN. When Kabuto is absorbing Oro's cells into his body, we assumed he was replacing him. But no...he gets revived again. At first, I thought he was an ally of convenience during the war; it had to mean something when he got his jutsu back and him saying he was willing to go in whichever direction Sasuke chose (and lost interest in possessing him...for some reason). After that, he just does his experiments and seemingly doesn't bother Konoha. Even his son (clone?) is welcomed. Except we find out that Naruto has been allowing this IN SECRET and now everyone is calling him out on this. 

 

From a writing standpoint, Orochimaru can't be redeemed; his turn to the dark side was purely selfish. His parents died, he didn't want to die, and what does he do? He butchers people to learn about immortality. He was responsible for the death of his teacher, killed the kage of a sovereign village just to take his place, sacrificed his own minions for Edo Tensei, continues to experiment with people and...well, I think there was a comic hinting at what else Orochimaru would be up to...

 

And the author gives him immortality. Why? I guess he got what he wanted, what more harm would he do? I'm sorry, but unless I'm trying to make a point on how bad people often get what they DON'T deserve, this is a disturbing message: Hey! Do whatever it takes to achieve your dreams, even BAD THINGS.

 

Thing is, if authors keep bad guys alive so they can be used again, it's either because a) The protagonist isn't a killer/wouldn't kill this particular character or B) Find a better plot device to explain why they're still around.

 

You know what could have worked? Orochimaru dies somewhere during Shippuden. At the end, there's no sign he's alive. No appearance in Gaiden. Mitsuki? Maybe some Konoha nin found him in a stasis tube and Naruto took pity on him and adopted him, but still supervises him. So, if Boruto HAS to fight and meet Orochimaru, we can pull that thing with Anko's seal during his time. Think about it: Sasuke was the only one who knew about the seal that would revive him. If we take that away, we could have Orochimaru revive himself during the current generation, and it would make for an interesting arc. It could set up a more believable conflict between Naruto and his son: Boruto wants to fight Orochimaru, but Naruto understands how dangerous he is and forbids it. Maybe he goes to possess Sarada this time. Maybe instead he temporarily turns Mitsuki on the others. Had they used a surprise resurrection now, there are many genuinely interesting possibilities for them to play with. 

 

But of course, SP is too lazy and just want him to hang around with Naruto's approval.

 

It's kind of like if someone would have been stupid enough to release Phillip Garrido...oh, wait...

 

It also undermines Orochimaru as a VILLAIN. I know shonen likes to play with tropes where bad guys aren't pure evil, but they have enough sense to know when some characters aren't meant to be redeemed. Like Naraku. Or Shishio. Or Father. Others I'm probably neglecting to mention. Kishimoto's actions to show not everyone is pure evil is well intentioned, but it is horribly misplaced and even he admitted this thinking is naive and only did it because the tropes of Shonen demanded it.

[LuckyChi7]

Been a while folks how is everyone doing? 

 

 

Thought I'd spread some NS goodness: 

 

 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 18 September 2018 - 06:05 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Been a while folks how is everyone doing? 

 

 

Thought I'd spread some NS goodness: 

 

 

 

Thanks, Chi, we really needed that! XD

[tricksie]

When you put it that way, that sums it up.

 

I feel like they didn't know what direction they wanted to take Orochimaru...kind of like everything else in this series...

 

Anyway, when Orochimaru first appeared, he was a monster of pure evil. It was clear he was being paralleled with Sasuke, and I thought that was pretty well done. It seemed consistent up until the Taka arc. He becomes a snake, tried to devour Sasuke, and gets sealed. He breaks free and gets sealed AGAIN. When Kabuto is absorbing Oro's cells into his body, we assumed he was replacing him. But no...he gets revived again. At first, I thought he was an ally of convenience during the war; it had to mean something when he got his jutsu back and him saying he was willing to go in whichever direction Sasuke chose (and lost interest in possessing him...for some reason). After that, he just does his experiments and seemingly doesn't bother Konoha. Even his son (clone?) is welcomed. Except we find out that Naruto has been allowing this IN SECRET and now everyone is calling him out on this. 

 

From a writing standpoint, Orochimaru can't be redeemed; his turn to the dark side was purely selfish. His parents died, he didn't want to die, and what does he do? He butchers people to learn about immortality. He was responsible for the death of his teacher, killed the kage of a sovereign village just to take his place, sacrificed his own minions for Edo Tensei, continues to experiment with people and...well, I think there was a comic hinting at what else Orochimaru would be up to...

 

And the author gives him immortality. Why? I guess he got what he wanted, what more harm would he do? I'm sorry, but unless I'm trying to make a point on how bad people often get what they DON'T deserve, this is a disturbing message: Hey! Do whatever it takes to achieve your dreams, even BAD THINGS.

 

Thing is, if authors keep bad guys alive so they can be used again, it's either because a) The protagonist isn't a killer/wouldn't kill this particular character or B) Find a better plot device to explain why they're still around.

 

You know what could have worked? Orochimaru dies somewhere during Shippuden. At the end, there's no sign he's alive. No appearance in Gaiden. Mitsuki? Maybe some Konoha nin found him in a stasis tube and Naruto took pity on him and adopted him, but still supervises him. So, if Boruto HAS to fight and meet Orochimaru, we can pull that thing with Anko's seal during his time. Think about it: Sasuke was the only one who knew about the seal that would revive him. If we take that away, we could have Orochimaru revive himself during the current generation, and it would make for an interesting arc. It could set up a more believable conflict between Naruto and his son: Boruto wants to fight Orochimaru, but Naruto understands how dangerous he is and forbids it. Maybe he goes to possess Sarada this time. Maybe instead he temporarily turns Mitsuki on the others. Had they used a surprise resurrection now, there are many genuinely interesting possibilities for them to play with. 

 

But of course, SP is too lazy and just want him to hang around with Naruto's approval.

 

It's kind of like if someone would have been stupid enough to release Phillip Garrido...oh, wait...

 

It also undermines Orochimaru as a VILLAIN. I know shonen likes to play with tropes where bad guys aren't pure evil, but they have enough sense to know when some characters aren't meant to be redeemed. Like Naraku. Or Shishio. Or Father. Others I'm probably neglecting to mention. Kishimoto's actions to show not everyone is pure evil is well intentioned, but it is horribly misplaced and even he admitted this thinking is naive and only did it because the tropes of Shonen demanded it.

Yeah, Orochimaru was such a good/interesting villain in the beginning. in fact, maybe even not straight-up a villain to begin with, because of how everyone else was so non-chalant about him being around. He seems to weave in and out of the storyline — Hiruzen's star pupil, the teammate worthy of saving by Jiraiya and possibly Tsunade, the post-Konoha nin who seems to still be able to charm people to team up with him, and the post-Akatsuki nin who either was liked enough or didn't pose enough of a threat after leaving Akatsuki that he was allowed to live. So he's a pretty complex character. Which is great when you have someone on the villain spectrum. 

 

Different from Itachi who is straight up bad news. Defected, murdered everyone, including his parents, his bff and his lover, and then only comes back to torture his brother. Even redeeming him in the end couldn't redeem him. He was just that bad.]]

 

But Orochimaru was central to the plot, had characters that revolved around him, a compelling backstory, and a complicated and even uncertain future. He wasn't as far gone as Itachi. (However yeah, he did kill off a few Kage, so...even if he did have a change of heart, he probably would have been put to death anyway!) But a lot of characters came out of his association. A LOT. Sai, Kabuto, Karin and Team Taka. Way more than Itachi brought.

 

Anyway, my point is, that Orochimaru was a vital character early on who impacted a lot of the storyline...but then who simply just fades away. Disappointing. So it makes it even more confusing/disappointing when they bring him back into the story, stripped of his original purpose and drive, and then use him as a plot foil.

 

That's why I sortof hate the character in Boruto who is his son(?) - it seems like such weak storytelling. I like your idea about how they could have treated Orochimaru differently.

 

Also, in trying to finish my fanfic, I've been thinking about Orochimaru lately, as well as Kabuto, Chiyo and Tsunade. There is so much in Naruto that could have been picked up on, even the tiniest bit, and fleshed out. But it wasn't. Like all these character (plus a few more) are healers. That's their storyline. But none of that is woven into a single bit of backstory about how Tsunade and Orochimaru got their skills, even though they were teammates. And there is no residual competition between Sakura and Kabuto as you would expect there would be between the apprentices of the two best medics-types in the Narutoverse.

 

Let's just say that, in an effort to build out Sakura's backstory, I'm exploring that avenue....  And it's funny because early on in writing it, I didn't really have any thought about adding Orochimaru to the fanfic. But now thinking that he and Tsunade grew up together, both trained extensively in some kind of medical ninjutsu, both grew into adulthood with some major character flaws, and both have highly gifted young apprentices...why didn't Kishimoto play up that angle more? It's like built in tension for Sakura with an opponent for her to overcome in Kabuto, plus revealing Tsunade and Orochimaru's backstory. It would have been so easy!

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah, Orochimaru was such a good/interesting villain in the beginning. in fact, maybe even not straight-up a villain to begin with, because of how everyone else was so non-chalant about him being around. He seems to weave in and out of the storyline — Hiruzen's star pupil, the teammate worthy of saving by Jiraiya and possibly Tsunade, the post-Konoha nin who seems to still be able to charm people to team up with him, and the post-Akatsuki nin who either was liked enough or didn't pose enough of a threat after leaving Akatsuki that he was allowed to live. So he's a pretty complex character. Which is great when you have someone on the villain spectrum. 

 

Different from Itachi who is straight up bad news. Defected, murdered everyone, including his parents, his bff and his lover, and then only comes back to torture his brother. Even redeeming him in the end couldn't redeem him. He was just that bad.]]

 

But Orochimaru was central to the plot, had characters that revolved around him, a compelling backstory, and a complicated and even uncertain future. He wasn't as far gone as Itachi. (However yeah, he did kill off a few Kage, so...even if he did have a change of heart, he probably would have been put to death anyway!) But a lot of characters came out of his association. A LOT. Sai, Kabuto, Karin and Team Taka. Way more than Itachi brought.

 

Anyway, my point is, that Orochimaru was a vital character early on who impacted a lot of the storyline...but then who simply just fades away. Disappointing. So it makes it even more confusing/disappointing when they bring him back into the story, stripped of his original purpose and drive, and then use him as a plot foil.

 

That's why I sortof hate the character in Boruto who is his son(?) - it seems like such weak storytelling. I like your idea about how they could have treated Orochimaru differently.

 

Also, in trying to finish my fanfic, I've been thinking about Orochimaru lately, as well as Kabuto, Chiyo and Tsunade. There is so much in Naruto that could have been picked up on, even the tiniest bit, and fleshed out. But it wasn't. Like all these character (plus a few more) are healers. That's their storyline. But none of that is woven into a single bit of backstory about how Tsunade and Orochimaru got their skills, even though they were teammates. And there is no residual competition between Sakura and Kabuto as you would expect there would be between the apprentices of the two best medics-types in the Narutoverse.

 

Let's just say that, in an effort to build out Sakura's backstory, I'm exploring that avenue....  And it's funny because early on in writing it, I didn't really have any thought about adding Orochimaru to the fanfic. But now thinking that he and Tsunade grew up together, both trained extensively in some kind of medical ninjutsu, both grew into adulthood with some major character flaws, and both have highly gifted young apprentices...why didn't Kishimoto play up that angle more? It's like built in tension for Sakura with an opponent for her to overcome in Kabuto, plus revealing Tsunade and Orochimaru's backstory. It would have been so easy!

 

I know that for my own fanfic that Orochimaru basically is given some indepth stuff with his story, especially when he bites off more than he can chew in his quest to gain power and immortality. I want him to still be such a prominent villain initially since Sasuke isn't at his side at the point when he would have been in canon in my fanfic, and with the universe of my fic differing from canon in SO MANY WAYS, it means a lot more to think on too.

 

Also, you bring up a cool idea Tricksie, considering I may have some cool ideas to work on with the Sannin and their collective pasts as well as some of their experiences, both from canon and my own ideas that i'd wanna share with my co-creator to see if he has anything he's gonna want to add into the mix.

 

And I never had thought of the idea with Sakura and Kabuto being rivals before... I usually had thought to work Naruto having Kabuto as a foe to overcome for him lying to him and the others as well as underestimating him and such. Another aspect I wish was played on more in the story is the idea of Naruto talking with others about his being a Jinchuriki, as well as the experiences of the others.

 

Also, I would tweak for my fanfic how Bee carried himself as a Jinchuriki, in that he took pride in the idea of it because of Ay looking to him as a little brother, which was on the surface, but deep down, because of the lack of freedom he had after Ay's dad died and he was forced to just focus on the Biju Ball that Bee began to resent being a Jinchuriki more than the ridicule and taunting he received did, and it shows with how he would be close to Gyuki, but because of his choosing to blame him for what happened with Ay and his bonds, Bee hesitates to call Gyuki by his name, since the canon NEVER acknowledged him referring to Gyuki by his name, so why miss out on the chance as close as they were that Bee never looked to Gyuki fully as an equal?

 

As for the stuff with Itachi, I plan to show the hints early on, given Kishi had something of a hint that if a man who did commit patricide would enjoy killing and that besides not wanting to draw attention to himself and Kisame, we did see him wish to have Kurenai and Asuma not pursue them, plus what he said when he and Kisame came to the Hidden Leaf Village REALLY brings up the idea, but I'd have to handle it better too, to show Itachi also may have had someone else influence him besides his fears about the coup, just like I wanted Madara to be the one that influences the Uchiha to attempt the coup after he freed Kurama, mostly doing it from the shadows, all so he can get his revenge (since he'd be the supposed "Tobi", not Obito for this.)

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 20 September 2018 - 01:03 AM.