54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

And the thing is, I don't know how they could ever undo the damage. It's not just the pairing, but so much of the writing has been devalued or twisted in order to keep the franchise going. Like, we can all point out various morals, good morals, that the series did a 180 on at the end. Stuff like hard work over natural talent, or that the ninja system turns people into weapons. Even the bonds of the characters have been shattered, because let me tell you reading the manga there's no indication that Hinata is anywhere close to the level of importance in Naruto's life than Sasuke is. They even killed off Neji in order to give NaruHina a moment, only to turn around and say that the moment didn't amount to much since Naruto didn't talk to Hinata again until years later.

 

It's a mess, there's no justification for what they did and nothing short of massive retcons, timeline BS, or the like will ever fix it.

 

Exactly what I feel too. It's why I figure that if you're gonna fix Naruto, it's gotta be from a certain point. Otherwise, it doesn't matter in the long run too.

[Illnevergiveup3]

too much flip-flopping on Sakura-Chan's part, especially  in the War Arc. It was pretty clear that her heart was with Naruto by the War Arc. All of that kitten with Chapter 540 wasn't even necessary to be honest. When that ninja told her that she must be in love with a great guy, Naruto should have popped up in her mind, no hesitation. It should have been cemented at that point.  It's no way after all of the clear signs she showed with falling for Naruto, should she be having Sasuke in mind at that point in the story, AT ALL. When the CPR scene came around, Sasuke wasn't even a priority in her mind, it was only Naruto. So, if they're going to fix Naruto, everything AFTER the Pein Arc needs to be redone. The Confession can stay though, since by that part, it shows when Sakura-Chan finally realizes her confliction. Confliction of her growing feelings for Naruto that she didn't come to terms with because of that crush(that was dying anyways) on Sasuke that she still had grips on. I believe it was real.  Everything else needs to be redone in my opinion. Oh, and Naruto not having Sakura-Chan in mind when Kushina was talking to him during the War Arc was pure kitten. It all needs to be fixed. If Kishi ever does it, I will buy every Naruto Volume.

Edited by Illnevergiveup3, 18 October 2020 - 05:21 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

does anybody find it weird that Kishimoto wrote Gaiden, and the entirety of it was basically Sarada proving to Sakura-Chan why her and Sasuke don't work? All she did was call Sakura-Chan out on her "relationship" with Sasuke.

[Nostradamus]

does anybody find it weird that Kishimoto wrote Gaiden, and the entirety of it was basically Sarada proving to Sakura-Chan why her and Sasuke don't work? All she did was call Sakura-Chan out on her "relationship" with Sasuke.

Not necessarily weird. I always viewed that as him saying "Hey this isn't what I wanted to do, so I'm going to nudge my readers towards what I wanted to write but couldn't."

And I say that because if he wanted he could've made Gaiden be complete fanservice to the SS fanbase. Yet he didn't. Why?

I mean look at SP's movie. Complete fanservice to NH. Well to be correct fanservice towards Hinata rather than NH.

I see Kishi's action as a sign of protest. He had to do what he had to do, but he made sure that people understood that he didn't like it.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Not necessarily weird. I always viewed that as him saying "Hey this isn't what I wanted to do, so I'm going to nudge my readers towards what I wanted to write but couldn't."

And I say that because if he wanted he could've made Gaiden be complete fanservice to the SS fanbase. Yet he didn't. Why?

I mean look at SP's movie. Complete fanservice to NH. Well to be correct fanservice towards Hinata rather than NH.

I see Kishi's action as a sign of protest. He had to do what he had to do, but he made sure that people understood that he didn't like it.

I definitely agree. The highlight is definitely Naruto refusing to spend anytime with Hinata however, though. Makes me respect Kishimoto just a little that he's subtly showing us that Naruto isn't happy with Hinata because Sakura-Chan is the woman he has his heart set on.

[Nostradamus]

I definitely agree. The highlight is definitely Naruto refusing to spend anytime with Hinata however, though. Makes me respect Kishimoto just a little that he's subtly showing us that Naruto isn't happy with Hinata because Sakura-Chan is the woman he has his heart set on.

Like I said before, I'm not Kishi's defender nor do I want to defend him. But looking at what's presented to me, I don't see a guy who wanted to do this. Is he responsible for what happened? Yes, but he is not the only one.

To me in life I've discovered ever since I was a kid, that one of the most important questions is "Why". And I have to ask why if NH and SS were the ones he wanted originally or decided down the road, did he do the things he did?

For example until the end while he was playing around with the fanbases, it still remained clear that it's NS and SK.

And after the ending and during it, why did he show a miserable relationship for both NH and SS?

Why does he have Naruto stay away from his wife? Why does Naruto spend more time with said Sakura's kid rather than his own?

Why have the drama of pointing out that Sarada is not Sakura's kid? And then at the very end inventing some lame excuse.

Why isn't there an actual real photo of Sakura and Sasuke as family? Instead Sakura superglued her own face on Karin. XD

Why do we see that Sasuke is never around and when he is, is forced to be and he's distant and not caring at all.

 

Compare and contrast Gaiden with SP's movie.

Edited by Nostradamus, 20 October 2020 - 05:19 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

Like I said before, I'm not Kishi's defender nor do I want to defend him. But looking at what's presented to me, I don't see a guy who wanted to do this. Is he responsible for what happened? Yes, but he is not the only one.

To me in life I've discovered ever since I was a kid, that one of the most important questions is "Why". And I have to ask why if NH and SS were the ones he wanted originally or decided down the road, did he do the things he did?

For example until the end while he was playing around with the fanbases, it still remained clear that it's NS and SK.

And after the ending and during it, why did he show a miserable relationship for both NH and SS?

Why does he have Naruto stay away from his wife? Why does Naruto spend more time with said Sakura's kid rather than his own?

Why have the drama of pointing out that Sarada is not Sakura's kid? And then at the very end inventing some lame excuse.

Why isn't there an actual real photo of Sakura and Sasuke as family? Instead Sakura superglued her own face on Karin. XD

Why do we see that Sasuke is never around and when he is, is forced to be and he's distant and not caring at all.

 

Compare and contrast Gaiden with SP's movie.

example:

 

 

Sarada: Did you ever kiss dad?

 

Sakura-Chan- Looks down in sadness knowing she never had a single intimate moment with the dude. But in an attempt to try to convince Sarada otherwise, tries to grasp at nothing(I.E. the forehead poke) and claims that it's better than a kiss. Which Sarada knows is B.S. anyways.

 

This moment alone tells us everything that we need to know.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

example:

 

 

Sarada: Did you ever kiss dad?

 

Sakura-Chan- Looks down in sadness knowing she never had a single intimate moment with the dude. But in an attempt to try to convince Sarada otherwise, tries to grasp at nothing(I.E. the forehead poke) and claims that it's better than a kiss. Which Sarada knows is B.S. anyways.

 

This moment alone tells us everything that we need to know.

 

Same since Sakura doesn't know all this time that Naruto was the first real person to praise her forehead. And she'll neve rknow. XP

[totherpage95]

too much flip-flopping on Sakura-Chan's part, especially  in the War Arc. It was pretty clear that her heart was with Naruto by the War Arc. All of that kitten with Chapter 540 wasn't even necessary to be honest. When that ninja told her that she must be in love with a great guy, Naruto should have popped up in her mind, no hesitation. It should have been cemented at that point.  It's no way after all of the clear signs she showed with falling for Naruto, should she be having Sasuke in mind at that point in the story, AT ALL. When the CPR scene came around, Sasuke wasn't even a priority in her mind, it was only Naruto. So, if they're going to fix Naruto, everything AFTER the Pein Arc needs to be redone. The Confession can stay though, since by that part, it shows when Sakura-Chan finally realizes her confliction. Confliction of her growing feelings for Naruto that she didn't come to terms with because of that crush(that was dying anyways) on Sasuke that she still had grips on. I believe it was real.  Everything else needs to be redone in my opinion. Oh, and Naruto not having Sakura-Chan in mind when Kushina was talking to him during the War Arc was pure kitten. It all needs to be fixed. If Kishi ever does it, I will buy every Naruto Volume.

kishi said the confession from that random ninja to sakura was something sp asked him to do since the anime was catching up to the manga they wanted him to make a scene that could start a filler arc (but I think kishi was secretly trying to show how unhealthy ss is to the viewers by having the ninja assume she loved a good person and in reality sakura appears to question her feelings for sasuke).. everything points against ss in the series even sai notices when sasuke returns to help in the war sakura has a fake smile on and on sasuke's side he helps her sometimes but most of the time he's disregarding her safety or placing her in a genjutsu or flat out saying he doesn't love her. I think kishi did what he thought fans wanted even if it wasn't what he wanted

Edited by totherpage95, 21 October 2020 - 01:22 AM.

[James S Cassidy]

kishi said the confession from that random ninja to sakura was something sp asked him to do since the anime was catching up to the manga they wanted him to make a scene that could start a filler arc (but I think kishi was secretly trying to show how unhealthy ss is to the viewers by having the ninja assume she loved a good person and in reality sakura appears to question her feelings for sasuke).. everything points against ss in the series even sai notices when sasuke returns to help in the war sakura has a fake smile on and on sasuke's side he helps her sometimes but most of the time he's disregarding her safety or placing her in a genjutsu or flat out saying he doesn't love her. I think kishi did what he thought fans wanted even if it wasn't what he wanted

Honestly, I don't even know anymore. We are told that SP convinced him to make SS and NH canon, we are told Youtubers made SS and NH canon. He can't make up his mind when it was decided, but I have a good idea based on interviews.

We know Kishimoto gave no kittens about Hinata for a long time. He keeps getting asked in several interviews for at least 4 years of when is Hinata gonna get her moment to shine, why is Sakura there if she is useless and does nothing, why can't Hinata be the main heroine. Questions like that. His responses are always "I don't know. I tried to make Sakura more heroine like, I don't understand why Hinata is popular when she does nothing." I have several interviews where he seems to not care about the female characters at all, but then there is a shift around 2014 (When production of Naruto the Last started no less) where all of a sudden Hinata is getting more attention, he praises Hinata for being more heroine-ish, and says his favorite character is Hinata AND says he decided the pairings around the middle or early parts of the story. Wow, what a tone shift out of nowhere with a convenient coincidence. AmIrite?

This is what the Hinata wankers love to use to "explain" why NH was canon from the beginning.

HERE is what I think REALLY happened. The Studio Pierrot heads said "we are making this Naruto movie to be canon and we need you to tie into the series." Kishimoto says "Okay, but what is the plot about and please don't make Naruto just some side character." (He actually asked them NOT to make Naruto a side-character in this movie which is not only weird, but doesn't back the idea of him writing Naruto the Last.) SP went and did the movie and Kishimoto has to force plot elements into the story and rush the thing to make sure this movie came out. I still have good hunch NS was supposed to be the canon since it was his wife's idea to expand Naruto's family and Kushina was based off his wife.

SP kept going despite half the studio and even the VAs saying "this movie is dumb" and they did it anyway with the false pretense that "this is what the fandom wanted." No, this is what SP wanted and they wanked Hinata hard. You then have SP trying so hard to say "Yeah, we don't hate Sakura" but we all know how kitten this is since they did everything to make her look bad.

The female staff of SP loved Sakura and hated Hinata ironic enough and they wanted Sakura to grow while the make staff seemed to fetish Hinata like no tomorrow. The Last is their fanfiction of how they wanted NH to be.

It is total BS and Kishimoto was basically forced to tie the series into the movie. I really think Kishimoto lost control of the Naruto property because he stopped caring altogether. He listened to everyone that cared more about Hinata and their fetish than actual Naruto fans. It is garbage. The fact that the Hinata wankers kept talking how great Hinata is and wouldn't stop talking about her is clue enough that they literally did not care about any other character. Not even Naruto. Hell, Kishimoto cared more about Sasuke and even HE took a backseat to Hinata because of this fandom fetish.

And every time someone tells me "SS and NH was obvious since the beginning" all I can say is is then "NH and SS is the most cliche pairings in anime history and Kishimoto should have did something different. If Naruto's plot was that obvious, then the story is the most cliche Shonen in existence second to maybe Dragonball who Toriyama has gone kittening crazy with the cliches.

[BlueStarSaber]

Say does anyone know how the Japanese fans reacted to the Angels and Demons side quest from Ninja Storm 4? The one were all the girls badmouth Naruto with the exception of Hinata because she is an "angel" 

 

[James S Cassidy]

Say does anyone know how the Japanese fans reacted to the Angels and Demons side quest from Ninja Storm 4? The one were all the girls badmouth Naruto with the exception of Hinata because she is an "angel" 

 

As far as I know, they mostly hated it.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Honestly, I don't even know anymore. We are told that SP convinced him to make SS and NH canon, we are told Youtubers made SS and NH canon. He can't make up his mind when it was decided, but I have a good idea based on interviews.

We know Kishimoto gave no kittens about Hinata for a long time. He keeps getting asked in several interviews for at least 4 years of when is Hinata gonna get her moment to shine, why is Sakura there if she is useless and does nothing, why can't Hinata be the main heroine. Questions like that. His responses are always "I don't know. I tried to make Sakura more heroine like, I don't understand why Hinata is popular when she does nothing." I have several interviews where he seems to not care about the female characters at all, but then there is a shift around 2014 (When production of Naruto the Last started no less) where all of a sudden Hinata is getting more attention, he praises Hinata for being more heroine-ish, and says his favorite character is Hinata AND says he decided the pairings around the middle or early parts of the story. Wow, what a tone shift out of nowhere with a convenient coincidence. AmIrite?

This is what the Hinata wankers love to use to "explain" why NH was canon from the beginning.

HERE is what I think REALLY happened. The Studio Pierrot heads said "we are making this Naruto movie to be canon and we need you to tie into the series." Kishimoto says "Okay, but what is the plot about and please don't make Naruto just some side character." (He actually asked them NOT to make Naruto a side-character in this movie which is not only weird, but doesn't back the idea of him writing Naruto the Last.) SP went and did the movie and Kishimoto has to force plot elements into the story and rush the thing to make sure this movie came out. I still have good hunch NS was supposed to be the canon since it was his wife's idea to expand Naruto's family and Kushina was based off his wife.

SP kept going despite half the studio and even the VAs saying "this movie is dumb" and they did it anyway with the false pretense that "this is what the fandom wanted." No, this is what SP wanted and they wanked Hinata hard. You then have SP trying so hard to say "Yeah, we don't hate Sakura" but we all know how kitten this is since they did everything to make her look bad.

The female staff of SP loved Sakura and hated Hinata ironic enough and they wanted Sakura to grow while the make staff seemed to fetish Hinata like no tomorrow. The Last is their fanfiction of how they wanted NH to be.

It is total BS and Kishimoto was basically forced to tie the series into the movie. I really think Kishimoto lost control of the Naruto property because he stopped caring altogether. He listened to everyone that cared more about Hinata and their fetish than actual Naruto fans. It is garbage. The fact that the Hinata wankers kept talking how great Hinata is and wouldn't stop talking about her is clue enough that they literally did not care about any other character. Not even Naruto. Hell, Kishimoto cared more about Sasuke and even HE took a backseat to Hinata because of this fandom fetish.

And every time someone tells me "SS and NH was obvious since the beginning" all I can say is is then "NH and SS is the most cliche pairings in anime history and Kishimoto should have did something different. If Naruto's plot was that obvious, then the story is the most cliche Shonen in existence second to maybe Dragonball who Toriyama has gone kittening crazy with the cliches.

 

Nicely said, James :) Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Derock]

Say does anyone know how the Japanese fans reacted to the Angels and Demons side quest from Ninja Storm 4? The one were all the girls badmouth Naruto with the exception of Hinata because she is an "angel" 

 

 

Who at CC2 is creating these damn unnecessary quests? It's like the same thing with Storm 3 (or was it Revolution) where there was a quest that involves Sakura and Hinata with the Legend side and Hero side. Not to mention with the Secret Lovers BS they sprouted way back in Storm 2. 

[luans7]

Dragon ball never wanted  to be  complex...

 

Kurapika is  favorite Kishimoto Character in Hunter x Hunter ?

Edited by luans7, 21 October 2020 - 10:19 PM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

if it was up to Kishimoto, NS happening was a 101 percent guaranteed. Hes just too yellowbellied to say NO. You spend all of your life working on your craft to be a Mangaka, you work your ass off on a story, just to let some pussy ass kittens who most likely has never been through the grind, tell you what you have to do with your own creation? I have a feeling sooner than later, Kishi wont be able to take it anymore, especially when his Mangas keep flopping. He will reveal the truth. Im hoping he does fix it though. I want Naruto to achieve all of his dreams. And I want Sakura-Chan to have her broken heart glued back together by Naruto and then she could experience true love with him.

S/N: Personally, I think 693 would have been perfect if she would have tried to actually beat the kitten out of Sasuke for threatening Narutos life. That would have been the biggest blow to show that she prioritizesNaruto over Sasuke, besides the other millions of times. But no one would be able to deny it.

[Bail o' Lies]

Dragon ball never wanted  to be  complex...

 

Kurapika is  favorite Kishimoto Character in Hunter x Hunter ?

Dragon Ball was created by the mangaka the primarily does gag manga. Dragon Ball was a comedic take on the Journey to the West before it became a big hit and slowly became what it was.

 

Source?

 

if it was up to Kishimoto, NS happening was a 101 percent guaranteed. Hes just too yellowbellied to say NO. You spend all of your life working on your craft to be a Mangaka, you work your ass off on a story, just to let some pussy ass kittens who most likely has never been through the grind, tell you what you have to do with your own creation? I have a feeling sooner than later, Kishi wont be able to take it anymore, especially when his Mangas keep flopping. He will reveal the truth. Im hoping he does fix it though. I want Naruto to achieve all of his dreams. And I want Sakura-Chan to have her broken heart glued back together by Naruto and then she could experience true love with him.

S/N: Personally, I think 693 would have been perfect if she would have tried to actually beat the kitten out of Sasuke for threatening Narutos life. That would have been the biggest blow to show that she prioritizesNaruto over Sasuke, besides the other millions of times. But no one would be able to deny it.

He would have likely would have done NS if it wasn't for his editors. He won't reveal the truth or do anything else (except another manga) till after Boruto is over so it doesn't screw it over partially since that where he getting his income at the moment.

 

As far as I know, they mostly hated it.

By the time that game came out the back lash was in full effect and nH became known as the pairing of death.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 22 October 2020 - 05:55 AM.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Well, to me, I don't care. Kishi has no spine, and I will never forgive him, and his BS reason why Sakura couldn't move on just make me so god damn sick.

 

He wants forgiveness; he has to admit that NH was a big mistake, that the Hinata fans are toxic, that he is a sexist pig for saying Sakura couldn't move on from Sasuke, and say sorry to all the women who suffered under abuse.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Who at CC2 is creating these damn unnecessary quests? It's like the same thing with Storm 3 (or was it Revolution) where there was a quest that involves Sakura and Hinata with the Legend side and Hero side. Not to mention with the Secret Lovers BS they sprouted way back in Storm 2. 

 

Why do I get the feeling a lot of that by CC2 was done at Studio Pierrot's demand to influence things too? Besides some of their own bias from some of their staff, I'm sure.

[totherpage95]

it's kind of frustrating to see the same comments on "abuse" in inuyasha since kagome says "sit" and he lands on his face... he's a demon (or half demon if i remember right) he can bend a bike with his fingers by accident if only anime fans worried as much about me or for that matter any normal person but no they gotta white knight for the anime protagonists that are super durable or have a healing factor like naruto because they're getting "abused" by the girl they like yeah right...

 

https://en.wikipedia...sha_(character)

"His durability and regenerative abilities are similar to those of yōkai and allow him to endure severe pain and recover quickly from wounds as well as extending his lifespan by hundreds of years"

so why whine about abuse? if this was thor would people still whine? and in naruto's case he's got a healing factor and the uzumaki genes that protect him from the ninetails chakra burning his skin off.