17 replies to this topic

[Onionhead Attacks]

This was just a random question that popped into my head the other day and got me thinking. Now, I may be missing something since I haven't exactly reread the manga in a while, rather choosing just to stay up to date with recent chapters. I'm not sure if this has been answered before, but it'd be nice if someone could answer it for me.

Naruto's surname is Uzumaki and as far as I'm aware, there aren't any other Uzumaki's in the village. Naruto's mother was the only Uzumaki in the village as well, and she kept her maiden name even after her marriage to Minato. I'm not sure if other villages or countries knew of her marriage to Minato, but I'd think with him being Hokage and all, the villagers would know who his wife is. If they did know that she was married to Minato and they know her name, then wouldn't the Uzumaki name ring a bell somehow for Naruto? You'd think with no other adult or child Uzumaki's in the village that when Naruto was born it'd be a little weird for there to suddenly be a new Uzumaki? Unless someone thought it was someone's great idea to give him a surname of a random clan...

Since his surname is Uzumaki (like his mother) wouldn't someone connect the dots to thinking, "Oh, that Uzumaki kid must be the Hokage's kid! Only, that kid didn't take his father's surname."?

[Jake]

Well there are two possible explanations, Sasuke and his group are talking to the former Hokages in an Uzumaki mask shrine (or something like that) in the outskirts of Konoha, so it is possible that their were other Uzumakis in the village at one point besides just Naruto, Kushina and Mito.

Another explanation is that Kushina did take Minato's name, I say this because the only time I can remember her full name being said was in the conversation between Jiraiya and Tsunade, immediately after revealing that Naruto's father is the Fourth Hokage and that his name was Minato Namikaze, mentioning that Kushina's surname was Uzumaki was probable something for the readers, to explain why Naruto's surname is Uzumaki and not Namikaze like his parents, plus it would make since to give Naruto the Uzumaki name because while people would have know that the Fourth's name was Namikaze most people don't bother to learn the maiden names of their leader's wife.

Edited by Jake, 16 February 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Killer Bee's Album]

Uzumaki clan was almost wiped out due to 3rd Great Shinobi War because they possessed great sealing jutsus. Here's the Shippuden episode again when Naruto met his mother, it goes deep into their lineage:

http://www.animefrea...sode-246-online

http://www.animefrea...sode-247-online

Edited by Killer Bee's Album, 16 February 2013 - 08:45 AM.

[kirabook]

Unless the information is in a manga chapter, it is not canon and the anime just ran with the idea.

(Similarly to when Kakashi died and he saw the ghosts of Rin, Obito, and Minato. He couldn't have seen Minato because Minato was sealed in the Shinigami's stomach, not the after life. He couldn't have seen Obito because Obito is still alive.)

[Killer Bee's Album]

Not a canon? LOL.

Chp. 498




Chp. 500

[Codus N]

Another explanation is that Kushina did take Minato's name, I say this because the only time I can remember her full name being said was in the conversation between Jiraiya and Tsunade, immediately after revealing that Naruto's father is the Fourth Hokage and that his name was Minato Namikaze, mentioning that Kushina's surname was Uzumaki was probable something for the readers, to explain why Naruto's surname is Uzumaki and not Namikaze like his parents, plus it would make since to give Naruto the Uzumaki name because while people would have know that the Fourth's name was Namikaze most people don't bother to learn the maiden names of their leader's wife.

This is what I think as well. Most of the civilians and lower ranked ninjas (chuunins and genins) wouldn't know of Kushina's maiden name I suspect, but Minato's inner circle of friends would probably know. The way I see it, the adults in Minato's circle would've figured out Naruto's identity, but that didn't mean they could easily extend a hand. There was the risk Naruto would get too curious about his parents, and would've asked them the first moment he got close enough on the subject. And we all know how he would've reacted if he found out.....

So, the best they could do to help Naruto was to help him in little ways he wouldn't notice. The Konoha history filler arc makes me think that way. The episode when Shikaku allowed Shikamaru to play with Naruto to me, is one of the little things I believe Minato's friends did for him and his parents. I'd even stake my bet on Teuchi the ramen guy was also part of Minato's inner circle. We know Kushina is a ramen addict, so that means she was probably Teuchi's favourite costumer as well. I think he may have put 2 and 2 together when seeing Naruto scarf down his meals. It's likely that it reminded him of Kushina and delivered him to the conclusion that he's their son.

[Killer Bee's Album]

You all also have to take into account the fact the Naruto is a Jinjuriki, and that meant he was a weapon that could be targeted by other Hidden Villages. It's only natural that he was kept from the truth as a child, for national security. As far as the villages was concern, he was just a pariah so I don't think that they would naturally take interest in who he was other than a ticking time bomb.

Edited by Killer Bee's Album, 16 February 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[tricksie]

Yeah...Naruto's whole birth/childhood story is fraught with plotholes, from both mom and dad's side.

As for the Uzumaki last name, it doesn't make any sense that the whole village would know he was the child of the demon, and shun him for years to come because of it, then ignore the fact that his last name was Uzumaki. The same very rare last name of the girl who died in the attack the same night he was born. It makes no sense that the village would latch onto one fact, then disregard completely the other.

But it's the same with learning that Genma and the other dude were Minato's personal guard, and Kakashi was Minato's student, etc. How many people knew about Minato and Kushina and yet did nothing for the child?

It's tempting to look back and think that maybe people were around then albeit in the shadows, but the reality shown in the manga is that he was alone. Teuchi didn't like him, and Sarutobi clearly only put up with him on a most distant level. Naruto had already flunked one year of academy (I think), so he certainly wasn't shown any special treatment there. Until he was nearly killed by Mizuki and learned the truth about why people hated him. Cue Iruka, on orders of Sarutobi.

I think if Kishimoto had known how far this manga would have gone, he would have given the important people in Naruto's life more foreshadowing in the beginning. He wouldn't have created such absolute loneliness for Naruto to have grown up in. So it leads to situations like this, 10+ years later, where readers scratch their heads and go "Y'know, shouldn't that be differerent...?" But eh, it's just a flaw that has been brought out by the manga's longevity. So it gets a big hand-wave from me.

----

ALSO, after re-reading those panels about Mito, it's interesting to think that she so long-outlived Hashirama. If it is shown that there was some bond between Mito, Hashirama and Madara (or even a love triangle of some sort), then Mito outliving them when both of them die, and then carrying out Hashirama's dreams will be very reminiscent of Konan after Yahiko and Nagato. (I sort of feel like Nagato died when Yahiko did, because he was no longer the child she grew up with, but became Pain. So she lost them both then.) Konan lived for their dreams.

So carrying on the theme of tragic female character having to carry on after the death of someone they loved — Mito, Konan, Tsunade. And it's been foreshadowed that it could happen to Sakura too, with Naruto telling Sasuke that they will die together.

Sorry for going off-topic there!

[Codus N]

Teuchi didn't like him, and Sarutobi clearly only put up with him on a most distant level. Naruto had already flunked one year of academy (I think), so he certainly wasn't shown any special treatment there. Until he was nearly killed by Mizuki and learned the truth about why people hated him. Cue Iruka, on orders of Sarutobi.

I think if Kishimoto had known how far this manga would have gone, he would have given the important people in Naruto's life more foreshadowing in the beginning. He wouldn't have created such absolute loneliness for Naruto to have grown up in. So it leads to situations like this, 10+ years later, where readers scratch their heads and go "Y'know, shouldn't that be differerent...?" But eh, it's just a flaw that has been brought out by the manga's longevity. So it gets a big hand-wave from me.

----

ALSO, after re-reading those panels about Mito, it's interesting to think that she so long-outlived Hashirama. If it is shown that there was some bond between Mito, Hashirama and Madara (or even a love triangle of some sort), then Mito outliving them when both of them die, and then carrying out Hashirama's dreams will be very reminiscent of Konan after Yahiko and Nagato. (I sort of feel like Nagato died when Yahiko did, because he was no longer the child she grew up with, but became Pain. So she lost them both then.) Konan lived for their dreams.

So carrying on the theme of tragic female character having to carry on after the death of someone they loved — Mito, Konan, Tsunade. And it's been foreshadowed that it could happen to Sakura too, with Naruto telling Sasuke that they will die together.

Sorry for going off-topic there!

Huh?? where do you get that??

On the last part, jeez, please, let's not go there.... I don't even want to think something depressing like that.

[James S Cassidy]

Wasn't it forbidden by the Third Hokage to talk about anything about Naruto's parents?

Also, being the son of the fourth wouldn't erase the hatred they had for the nine-tails. I think that was the point of it. Minato wanted them to see Naruto as the hero, but all they saw him was the host to the beast that killed their families and destroyed their homes.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 16 February 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[harry4e]

Wasn't it forbidden by the Third Hokage to talk about anything about Naruto's parents?

Also, being the son of the fourth wouldn't erase the hatred they had for the nine-tails. I think that was the point of it. Minato wanted them to see Naruto as the hero, but all they saw him was the host to the beast that killed their families and destroyed their homes.

This, we saw with both Gaara and Killer Bee that just because you are related to the Kage, you will automatically earn the respect and admiration of the village. Gaara earned it after he got beaten by Naruto and changed his way and Bee earned it by taming the beast.

I believe Kakashi knew who Naruto was, as did Itachi and his parents, and most likely most of the clan heads...we saw that even though their children were not great friends with Naruto they atleast interacted with him, specially with Shika, Choji, and Kiba all being trouble makers of some sort.

I do believe however that their marraige was likely kept a secret from the civillians and Clan members, (They didn't have a clan to protect their children, so they would have kept it a secret to protect their future child from foreign enemies.) and the link between the Uzumaki and Senju was probably only known between the Kages and the Senju and Uzumaki clan both who from what we can gather are all but extinct, so as far as most people knew he was just the kid with the nine-tails sealed in him, they probably knew nothing about the history of the clan or I bet most of the civillians and regular Ninja didn't even know his full name, because they didn't want to acknowlege him, and knowing a name means you acknowledging that persons existance, it's why even though nobody bullied or beat him up, they completely ignored him, The Hokages law meant they couldn't harm him physically, but by denying a persons existance can be just as brutal if not more so.

I don't believe for one second the the Third Hokage didn't like him, who else would have given Naruto the clan symbols he always wore, there was no one else who could have given him atleast that heritage, also as much as I agree he could have done a better job of raising him, given Naruto more of his heritage (Though that's probably more to do with Kishi not having created the Uzumaki famil history than anything else.) I beleive it was his position as a hokage which meant he had to keep a safe distance between himself and Naruto, The job of the leader is to stay impartial. It was the third Hokage who talked to Iruka and opened his eyes to Naruto's pain, before that Iruka also kept him at arms length, this was one of the first thing we learnt in the first chapter, Iruka treating Naruto to Ramen After the Third Hokage talked to hima and explained the reason behind Narutos behaviour.

[tricksie]

Teuchi put up with Naruto, but generally viewed him as a nuisance. So techinically he didn't hate him as much as everyone else in the village. It was only after coming in with Iruka that Teuchi started to warm up to Naruto. But in the end, Teuchi wasn't a mentor or in a position of importance for Naruto, he was just a guy in the village. Yes, he could have made Naruto's life worse, but then again, he also could have made his life better.

Sarutobi may have been the one to tip off Iruka in Naruto's second year, but he also knew that the kid was hated, lived a life alone and took poor care of himself (Naruto was eating rancid food when readers are first introduced to him). Sarutobi was his guardian (for all intents and purposes) and should have been more involved. Even if that meant not growing up like an orphan until he was nearly victimized by a lunatic shinobi (Mizuki).

So yeah, distantly cared for him. And my problem is that as the manga history unfolds, there were more and more people who Sarutobi could have relied on to make sure the kid didn't slip through the cracks. People who should have known of his birth or guessed at its legacy.... Seriously, it's a shinobi village. Anybody looking underneath the underneath? The only known Uzumaki dies on the very day another Uzumaki is born.... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

To compare to HP, it would be as if Dumbledore left Harry to stay with the Dursleys, only coming to get him when he got into trouble, only revealing his true nature when he was almost victimized for it, and never telling him of his legacy and history, leaving him to discover it on his own.

Lastly, Naruto never includes Teuchi and Sarutobi in the flashbacks of the people who saved him. It always begins with Iruka. Then Team 7. That right there shows that the random visit from Sarutobi and the occasional ramen dinner were not enough to "save" him from his loneliness.

And again, back on topic, there were people who had the knowledge and personal experience to connect the very clear dots surrounding Naruto's birth. But it's a big retcon to include it now. So it's just a plot hole not worth fixing.

[jworks]

Maybe villager's didn't give his name much thought since they might have thought the orphan Naruto Uzumaki named himself after his love for ramen by naming himself after "narutomaki" fish cakes served in ramen.

Edited by jworks, 16 February 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Onionhead Attacks]

Yeah...Naruto's whole birth/childhood story is fraught with plotholes, from both mom and dad's side.

As for the Uzumaki last name, it doesn't make any sense that the whole village would know he was the child of the demon, and shun him for years to come because of it, then ignore the fact that his last name was Uzumaki. The same very rare last name of the girl who died in the attack the same night he was born. It makes no sense that the village would latch onto one fact, then disregard completely the other.

But it's the same with learning that Genma and the other dude were Minato's personal guard, and Kakashi was Minato's student, etc. How many people knew about Minato and Kushina and yet did nothing for the child?

It's tempting to look back and think that maybe people were around then albeit in the shadows, but the reality shown in the manga is that he was alone. Teuchi didn't like him, and Sarutobi clearly only put up with him on a most distant level. Naruto had already flunked one year of academy (I think), so he certainly wasn't shown any special treatment there. Until he was nearly killed by Mizuki and learned the truth about why people hated him. Cue Iruka, on orders of Sarutobi.

I think if Kishimoto had known how far this manga would have gone, he would have given the important people in Naruto's life more foreshadowing in the beginning. He wouldn't have created such absolute loneliness for Naruto to have grown up in. So it leads to situations like this, 10+ years later, where readers scratch their heads and go "Y'know, shouldn't that be differerent...?" But eh, it's just a flaw that has been brought out by the manga's longevity. So it gets a big hand-wave from me.

Teuchi put up with Naruto, but generally viewed him as a nuisance. So techinically he didn't hate him as much as everyone else in the village. It was only after coming in with Iruka that Teuchi started to warm up to Naruto. But in the end, Teuchi wasn't a mentor or in a position of importance for Naruto, he was just a guy in the village. Yes, he could have made Naruto's life worse, but then again, he also could have made his life better.

Sarutobi may have been the one to tip off Iruka in Naruto's second year, but he also knew that the kid was hated, lived a life alone and took poor care of himself (Naruto was eating rancid food when readers are first introduced to him). Sarutobi was his guardian (for all intents and purposes) and should have been more involved. Even if that meant not growing up like an orphan until he was nearly victimized by a lunatic shinobi (Mizuki).

So yeah, distantly cared for him. And my problem is that as the manga history unfolds, there were more and more people who Sarutobi could have relied on to make sure the kid didn't slip through the cracks. People who should have known of his birth or guessed at its legacy.... Seriously, it's a shinobi village. Anybody looking underneath the underneath? The only known Uzumaki dies on the very day another Uzumaki is born.... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

To compare to HP, it would be as if Dumbledore left Harry to stay with the Dursleys, only coming to get him when he got into trouble, only revealing his true nature when he was almost victimized for it, and never telling him of his legacy and history, leaving him to discover it on his own.

Lastly, Naruto never includes Teuchi and Sarutobi in the flashbacks of the people who saved him. It always begins with Iruka. Then Team 7. That right there shows that the random visit from Sarutobi and the occasional ramen dinner were not enough to "save" him from his loneliness.

And again, back on topic, there were people who had the knowledge and personal experience to connect the very clear dots surrounding Naruto's birth. But it's a big retcon to include it now. So it's just a plot hole not worth fixing.

While everyone's answers are all great, tricksie's answer seems to stand out to me a lot. I mean it just doesn't make that much sense as the manga goes on. In the beginning when there weren't that many clues, people were latching onto the idea that Naruto was the Fourth's son from the resemblance (blonde hair, blue eyes). I wasn't very fond of that theory, though I didn't discredit it either since it was a possibility... hence I wrote a story on Naruto's possible bloodline (not related to the Fourth). It was well received for the most part until a few years passed and the manga revealed Naruto's relations to the Fourth then some random reviewer left a comment giving flak about having all my facts wrong and how Naruto is the Fourth's son, etc., etc. The whole point of my story was a "What if" but that person didn't get it and now this got me questioning if Kishimoto really thought out Naruto's heritage much until the past few years since signs in the beginning were pointing, but not glaringly obvious (resemblance aside), in the Fourth's direction.

But yes, I feel that these plot holes are due to how long the manga has run and how Kishimoto is constantly adding new details in, since he has a rough idea of how the manga would run and how it should end. He definitely doesn't have a tight sense of writing because of this. I suppose that's why when he adds in newly revealed info there are plot holes popping up every now and then. I'll take a page out of tricksie's book and just wave it aside and blame it all to the many years the manga has run.

[Killer Bee's Album]

Yeah...Naruto's whole birth/childhood story is fraught with plotholes, from both mom and dad's side.

As for the Uzumaki last name, it doesn't make any sense that the whole village would know he was the child of the demon, and shun him for years to come because of it, then ignore the fact that his last name was Uzumaki. The same very rare last name of the girl who died in the attack the same night he was born. It makes no sense that the village would latch onto one fact, then disregard completely the other.

But it's the same with learning that Genma and the other dude were Minato's personal guard, and Kakashi was Minato's student, etc. How many people knew about Minato and Kushina and yet did nothing for the child?

It's tempting to look back and think that maybe people were around then albeit in the shadows, but the reality shown in the manga is that he was alone. Teuchi didn't like him, and Sarutobi clearly only put up with him on a most distant level. Naruto had already flunked one year of academy (I think), so he certainly wasn't shown any special treatment there. Until he was nearly killed by Mizuki and learned the truth about why people hated him. Cue Iruka, on orders of Sarutobi.

I think if Kishimoto had known how far this manga would have gone, he would have given the important people in Naruto's life more foreshadowing in the beginning. He wouldn't have created such absolute loneliness for Naruto to have grown up in. So it leads to situations like this, 10+ years later, where readers scratch their heads and go "Y'know, shouldn't that be differerent...?" But eh, it's just a flaw that has been brought out by the manga's longevity. So it gets a big hand-wave from me.

----

ALSO, after re-reading those panels about Mito, it's interesting to think that she so long-outlived Hashirama. If it is shown that there was some bond between Mito, Hashirama and Madara (or even a love triangle of some sort), then Mito outliving them when both of them die, and then carrying out Hashirama's dreams will be very reminiscent of Konan after Yahiko and Nagato. (I sort of feel like Nagato died when Yahiko did, because he was no longer the child she grew up with, but became Pain. So she lost them both then.) Konan lived for their dreams.

So carrying on the theme of tragic female character having to carry on after the death of someone they loved — Mito, Konan, Tsunade. And it's been foreshadowed that it could happen to Sakura too, with Naruto telling Sasuke that they will die together.

Sorry for going off-topic there!

Well plot holes can't be avoided I guess since he does write a lot of this chapters on the fly.

[jworks]

yeah I agree. Consider Kishimoto created the character Naruto and named him long before he came up with a story about his mother and their clan heritage.

"So here's this crazy kid who can't get enough ramen...let's name him after a ramen topping!"

"oh, well now we need to introduce his parents...well Minato has always been named Namikaze so the mom's name has to be Uzumaki."

it's like trying to write a story in reverse...I can't blame kishimoto for any of these "plot holes" which really aren't plot holes they are just "detail holes" that don't matter.

[sushi.]

Kushina probably didn't change her name, because Tsunade and Jiraiya still used Uzumaki Kushina when talking about her. Also, I don't think Kushina moved alone to Konoha, meaning there are/were other Uzumaki's. I think she had a mother that taught Minato Fuuinjutsu. That also makes me wonder where this mother is..hope all the Uzumaki's didn't die in the Kyuubi attack.

[jworks]

Kushina probably didn't change her name, because Tsunade and Jiraiya still used Uzumaki Kushina when talking about her. Also, I don't think Kushina moved alone to Konoha, meaning there are/were other Uzumaki's. I think she had a mother that taught Minato Fuuinjutsu. That also makes me wonder where this mother is..hope all the Uzumaki's didn't die in the Kyuubi attack.

Maybe all the Uzumaki's went went into hiding in Old Kakariko and have been secretly protecting the office of Hokage this whole time but now Bulblin's have invaded and they are busy fighting them off meanwhile the whole place is infested with cats!!! OMG OMG OMG