16 replies to this topic

[tricksie]

So, I've written another brick of a chapter for Voice in the Wind. I think I have a problem. An old English professor used to tell us to 'murder your darlings.' (I really hate that phrase.) But I think I have enough darlings to fill a circus. I can't really cut anything. But it's fanfic, so i don't have to.

So here's my dilemma: These longer chapters take much longer to write, longer to edit and longer to read. Would you prefer longer chapters with a longer update time, ultimately resulting in fewer chapters overall, or shorter chapters with a faster update time, but possibly resulting in a boatload of chapters.

I know the amount of chapters overall may be a small detail, but it's important to me. To me, seeing a story with lots of chapters makes me think that the writer is all over the map. There's been a few lately with 60-70 chapters. Archive panic much? And it also has to do with keeping the reader in the context of what's happening at that moment. And I really don't want to spread the action out over three or four chapters if I don't have to, as it's all pretty closely tied together.

Specifics: The next chapter is around 15,000 words. I can easily break it up into three parts: a 6,000-word section on Katsuro alone; a 5,000-word section on Sakura alone; and a 4,000-word section on the two of them together. If I broke it up, I would probably post the Katsuro one first, then the Sakura and the two of them together sections would get posted second.

So as a reader, which do you prefer? Shorter chapters that come in more frequent intervals, or longer, fuller chapters that take a little longer to produce?

edit: lol - just got a comment moments after I wrote this, entirely unrelated to this post, saying that they really liked the length. Maybe it's just me who worries about this stuff. Still, I'm curious to know what other readers and writers think.

Edited by tricksie, 21 September 2011 - 05:55 PM.

[Nick Soapdish]

I can handle longer chapters, but most of the books that I read tend to have shorter ones (maybe 10-15 pages, sometimes much shorter). For a completely finished work, I think that longer chapters might help keep the reader in the action better, but it partly depends on why the chapters are longer. Are the three parts that you're talking about going to be intertwined if they're all in one chapter or would they be sequential?

Shorter chapters and a more frequent update schedule helps keep the reader involved because they have less time for the events of previous chapters to fade and each new chapter refreshes one's memory about what happened before (even if just a bit). I think of them as kinda like when Doyle was releasing chapters of his Sherlock Holmes stories to The Strand (although I wasn't actually around for that ). Maybe a better example would be the agonizingly long wait between books in George RR Martin's series.

I do have an aversion to very short chapters and sometimes glance at the number of chapters vs. number of words when checking out new fics. If it's averaging only 1 or 2 thousand words per chapter and it isn't a drabble collection, it's a yellow flag and I may be less inclined to check out the fic.

I don't think it's that big of a deal either way. If we forget about what's going on, we can always go back and re-read it (which is what I'll be doing with GRRM's series).

[tricksie]

I can handle longer chapters, but most of the books that I read tend to have shorter ones (maybe 10-15 pages, sometimes much shorter). For a completely finished work, I think that longer chapters might help keep the reader in the action better, but it partly depends on why the chapters are longer. Are the three parts that you're talking about going to be intertwined if they're all in one chapter or would they be sequential?

Shorter chapters and a more frequent update schedule helps keep the reader involved because they have less time for the events of previous chapters to fade and each new chapter refreshes one's memory about what happened before (even if just a bit). I think of them as kinda like when Doyle was releasing chapters of his Sherlock Holmes stories to The Strand (although I wasn't actually around for that ). Maybe a better example would be the agonizingly long wait between books in George RR Martin's series.

I do have an aversion to very short chapters and sometimes glance at the number of chapters vs. number of words when checking out new fics. If it's averaging only 1 or 2 thousand words per chapter and it isn't a drabble collection, it's a yellow flag and I may be less inclined to check out the fic.

I don't think it's that big of a deal either way. If we forget about what's going on, we can always go back and re-read it (which is what I'll be doing with GRRM's series).

The sections are sequential, so I could easily break them out. And I have included references to the last chapter, since it's been a while and I don't want to automatically assume the reader will remember everything from the last chapter.

But this brings me to secondary issue: Even though I'm writing big chunks of text, I want the reader to be able to read it how they see fit. Sometimes I read a whole story, word for word; sometimes I just skip to the part that interests me most. So by dividing a larger chapter into more manageable chunks, I like to think I'm giving the reader a choice. They can either read it all in one go, or they can stop at the line breaks and pick it up later, or they can skim through to parts that interest them. Does anyone ever think about exactly how they read, and is dividng up a long chapter in such a way useful?

Anyway, I completely agree with your aversion to choppy little chapters, as well as to agonizingly long waits between books. I definitely look at word count before I decide a story is worth dipping in to. It's like a quick gauge of the author's commitment to the story. I've read too many that have never been finished. I can't bear to fall in love with something only to have the author neglect it!

Edited by tricksie, 21 September 2011 - 10:54 PM.

[Greed-Sama]

TheOmegaMan's two cents: I have a photographic memory so the problem with people not remembering the previous chapter I tend to overlook sometimes just because I'm not used to forgetting things.

As for chapter length. It's all about the drive. Longer chapters keep the narrative drive alive, while shorter chapters can take you away from the story if used to often.

[No WhereMan]

From what I've found, and this is from a person that's made 15k-30k chapters, anyway, it's more important to do what you as the author feels is important for the vision you're putting out for your story. What you're trying to convey is more important than scoring up what's too many words or whatever. I've found that if it's good, people will read it regardless of the chapter length. Honestly from my reviewers a lot of them prefer longer chapters oppose to many chapters. At the end of the day, it's what's good for the story that's most important.

[Gravenimage]

Longest chapter I have written is like 64,200 words yep don't ask me how I did it though.

[Toasty Warrior]

For me it's about what I think the audience would find acceptable, I usually go for about 3,000 or more words myself since I think that's a pretty good amount to read and it won't waste everyone's time reading a chapter that's so long, it's about quality over quantity I think.

[ShippudenGirl]

Trick, I just read an InuYasha fan-fic that just ended, which was 278 chapters about 3,000 words each... The whole read I was like "O.O oh damn"

[Fyuria'sLeo]

I prefer long chapters. As long as the stories stays interesting to me while I read if it doesnt I just stop reading.

Edited by Fyuria'sLeo, 23 September 2011 - 10:15 AM.

[Anguyen92]

Well, I prefer short chapters like around 2-3k. A good amount that does not lose the reader, keeps a steady flow to the storyline, and makes the events that occur to be a very good highlight spot.

[NaruDeeds]

Longest chapter I have written is like 64,200 words yep don't ask me how I did it though.

64,200 words?! I thought Your True Love was long with 20,000'ish words... Holy cow.

Me personally- I don't care so much about the specific length. As long as it isn't too short, I'm good. I personally aim for 5,000 words (which usually comes out to be 13-16 pages per chapter). But that's just what I set out to do when I first started writing fanfics and I've stuck to it.

I actually love your long chapters, my eyes light up with Glee whenever I see an update from Voice in the Wind because I know I've got a solid 30'ish+ minutes of quality reading ahead of me!

However you choose to distribute this next chapter (or three), I greatly look forward to them

[tricksie]

64,200 words?! I thought Your True Love was long with 20,000'ish words... Holy cow.

Me personally- I don't care so much about the specific length. As long as it isn't too short, I'm good. I personally aim for 5,000 words (which usually comes out to be 13-16 pages per chapter). But that's just what I set out to do when I first started writing fanfics and I've stuck to it.

I actually love your long chapters, my eyes light up with Glee whenever I see an update from Voice in the Wind because I know I've got a solid 30'ish+ minutes of quality reading ahead of me!

However you choose to distribute this next chapter (or three), I greatly look forward to them

ty, I'm glad to hear it! It's funny because I worry about word count, and lots of people feel the same! That they've got a chunk of satisfied reading. It's a funny perception difference whether your on one side of the story or the other. As the writer, I worry about it being too long. But as the reader, I too look for longer chapters. I just didn't realize it till you put it in terms of time spent reading.

So, I opted to keep everything together in this chapter. So it came out of my text program at 15,900, but with the addition of chapter notes and the weird conversion to FF.net it topped out at more than 17,000. Which is HUGE! But if you think that it's three separate sections in one chapter (like three chapters in one), then it's not so bad.

It could have been split up, but I like the way it fit together, even over that vast landscape of text. And I liked that I wasn't the stringing the reader along for several chapters.

If anyone reads it, I'd love to hear your thoughts. And if not, thanks for sharing your perspectives. It really helped me in deciding how to deliver this chapter. The next few chapters are very focused, so I'm not expecting potential gi-normous ones again for a while! Whew! They are seriously hard to edit!

@graven, yowza! Did you post it? Is it a one-shot or are you still working on it?

Edited by tricksie, 26 September 2011 - 04:11 PM.

[Catwho]

The average "novel" length is supposed to be about 80,000 words. High fantasy novels are allowed to break 120K words, but not by much. Anything longer than those is actually enough material for two books or stories, and should be treated accordingly.

That said, I've always found the word "chapter" to be an arbitrary thing, one that changes meaning depending on who you ask. Some authors used chapters to structure their narrative, others go back and add them after the story is done just to make the reading easier. Still others treat each scene as its own chapter, or toss out chapters entirely and leave the entire thing a block o' text. All of them are right.

I personally prefer a larger chunk of story over a short one in serialization, but there are limits. A good "update" length for me is about 3,000 to 5,000 words. It's enough to take a solid chunk of time (I can easily read 10,000+ words in an hour so a 5K chapter will take me 30 minutes or less) but it's not so long that I'll have to pause and come back later to finish it.

[Dalton.T.R]

I think it depends on the story honestly. Like a lot of people have said, shorter chapters can ruin the flow of the story, where as longer chapters can keep the reader in the flow f things. It really shuld'nt matter how long the chapter is. It should end when it can't be continued.

[sushi.]

Maybe something in the middle. Say somethin' like "to be continued"

Just remember

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vs

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No, it's really easier to read.

Edited by sushi., 31 May 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Konohakitten]

I go for length in my chapters. Then again the wait for a new chapter is a month to two months, so I want to make sure it was worth the wait. I'm not gonna have ppl wait for so long just to read a wimpy 1,000-3,000 word chapter. Nope not me I go for 7,000-9,000 I make sure that it doesn't drag, I want the chapter to flow well with the rest of the story.