54175 replies to this topic

[Illnevergiveup3]

all it really takes is her finding out that it was truly Naruto who unlocked her heart and made her want to get lovey dovey in Chapter 3, and she would instantly see where her love truly lies. But, they know if she figured it out, that would be the nail in the coffin for NH and SS. Funny how she always has flashbacks about everything but the bench scene, the scene that literally made her believe that Sasuke was her soulmate when it was really Naruto. Funny how she never questions it and tries to get to the bottom of why Sasuke treats her like garbage when he claimed its his dream to kiss her forehead. Funny how they all remember the Proud Failure speech between Naruto and Hinata and calls that love but forgets completely about Chapter 3. All Naruto has to literally do is seek her out, and kiss the seal on her forehead right now, and everything will click into place for her.

[Kagomaru]

And what about Naruto's vow to tell Sakura how he felt about her after he brought back Sasuke, whether she accepted his feelings or not?  What happened to that promise?

[Chatte]

What's really infuriating about this fanbase is that those who attempt to argue for the legitimacy of NH have no real stance. First it's Sakura isn't his love interest, then it's they only had a brother/sister relationship, then it's Naruto only had a crush on her, then it's Naruto needs to move on because Sakura has feelings for Sasuke. Each of their arguments contradict with each other so heavily it makes my head spin. Which one is it? At the end of the day, these are all easily proven to be false. It really was a wake up call that people just didn't care what the manga stated, ignored it and created their own narratives to fit their ideals. Even Neji, his death seriously went against a key principle of this story. There's no one who should be arguing as to why he should have died.

He literally met the cruel fate he was 'destined' to fulfill, to protect the main family. What happened to controlling your own fate and changing it? Neji's death hit hard because it was extremely unnecessary and literally the only way you that could have spurred development between NH. In 616, which TL was already in the works by then- is the one stand out moment between them that was needed to base the pairing on mutual meaningful interaction. Even in this scenario where there was still no romantic indication from Naruto, it was still a bonding moment. Neji was indeed the catalyst that created the situation. He had to die because he and Hinata's plot lines are intertwined due to their familial ties. Without Neji, who represented the issues within their clan, Hinata's main story line practically disappears into thin air. All that's left is her feelings for Naruto. That's why all you see after that chapter is her saying 'I wanna be with him.. Forever!!'. It's why in 693 you see the same thing with Sakura, yet, with her, there was no set-up situation that needed to happen, they just had to regress her all the way back to chapter 3. It blew my mind to see Sakura be erased/reversed like this, and I don't want to hear it when people say that she's 'always been like this.'. First time Sasuke left that is obviously given a pass given it was the first time he left the village and it was during the height of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. The second time she encountered him, did she not go to attack before Yamato interjected? The third time, she literally decided to take his life because he was too far gone. Yet, despite the fact that Sakura is far from stupid and knowing how Sasuke changed dramatically after he left, she would think that saying 'I still love you' during the fourth encounter would do anything? Even in desperation, Sakura is not a rash individual. Sorry but that isn't the Sakura that was shown throughout the manga, even in part 1. If anyone would like to add to this feel free. I'm not sure if I'm missing some key details here.

Also it's funny how significant chapter 3 is, yet, everyone forgets what Naruto said to Sakura disguised as Sasuke. I can't help but think that Naruto really shot himself in the foot there.

 

That's the problem with SS in regards to Sakura.

 

Sakura was shown actively getting over Sasuke. Or at least become WAAY more rational than she used to be. Hell, actually Sakura was quite rational back in part 1 as well. 

 

Remember giving up on Sasuke's chance at Chuunin Exams for Sasuke? Remember going bazinga at him for his cowardice back when Orochimaru attacks after she throws a kunai to save Naruto's fall?

 

Also, when she sees Naruto hurt after the whole Sasuke thing, she goes and asks Tsunade for training?

 

Sakura has always been proactive AND rational when it came to Sasuke. EVEN when she confessed to him, her rationality told her well: the dude's gonna leave town. And she was right.

 

Despite her little crush on Sasuke who only made her act stupidly in chapter 3, afterwards, Sakura starts growing a damn sense.

 

In Part 2 it's even more obvious. And the manga builds it so that the longing is more for Naruto than Sasuke himself. 

 

I'm actually rereading the manga (BOY IT TAKES ME A LIFETIME!) for an article I want to post on my blog for the NaruSaku symbolism series and when I got to part 2 beginning, the way Kishi drew her and continued with it along the manga up to a point, you could feel the longing Sakura had for Naruto.

 

She had one for Sasuke, yes, more like in terms of not being able to save him/stop him that night. But with Naruto? It was built more like in the tones of - I love how I felt when I was near him and how he made me feel kind of thing.

 

Asking him if she's more womanly? She felt confident and at ease ENOUGH to do that. She'd never feel that way around Sasuke. What gives it in? Chapter 3 when she thinks about the forehead aspect in regards to wooing Sasuke.

 

Because it's her make-believe wish. WHO GUESS WHO GRANTS IT??? The dumb blonde disguised as the cocky brunette.

 

That's why in part 2, until it all went down the hill, Sakura is actively shown getting over Sasuke and getting the necessary character development to do so.

 

Hell, when they meet him, who is the one who puts Naruto back on his feet? It's Sakura! Yes, she is crying. But she's standing firm and it's she who puts Naruto back on track.

 

Like you said, she was about to hit Sasuke if not for Yamato interrupting her. She had the emotional maturity to go head to head with him. It doesn't matter if power scale she lacked. But this manga was more about emotional maturity than anything else, at its core.

 

AND SAKURA HAD IT!

 

But to fulfill their stupid agendas, they erased that aspect of hers!! TOTALLY! They didn't even let her with the emotional maturity of her beginning days. 

 

Sakura not getting back at him for leaving her with Sarada? And leave her raise Sarada on her own? That's not a Sakura I would recognize. 

 

If 12 years old Sakura lashed at Sasuke for Naruto, almost 30 Sakura doesn't so for HER DAUGHTER? 

 

I call it what it is: BULL kitten!

 

Bbbbut he is in supa dupa important missiiuuun that only he can do. Okay, so? He still has MEANS to talk to his family.

 

A goddamn note on a bird - if not a phone since we're this big tech era. You know, the old ways.

 

Anything. WHEN YOU WANT IT THAT BAD, YOU FIND A WAY!

When you don't? You find an excuse.

 

Which is basically Boruto's whole damn basis. An excuse of a story, that's half assessed at best.

 

A mindless vessel where no-name editors put their fanfic-y imagination so they can get the so much wanted ovations, probably.

 

But what do I know, right?

 

 

 

all it really takes is her finding out that it was truly Naruto who unlocked her heart and made her want to get lovey dovey in Chapter 3, and she would instantly see where her love truly lies. But, they know if she figured it out, that would be the nail in the coffin for NH and SS. Funny how she always has flashbacks about everything but the bench scene, the scene that literally made her believe that Sasuke was her soulmate when it was really Naruto. Funny how she never questions it and tries to get to the bottom of why Sasuke treats her like garbage when he claimed its his dream to kiss her forehead. Funny how they all remember the Proud Failure speech between Naruto and Hinata and calls that love but forgets completely about Chapter 3. All Naruto has to literally do is seek her out, and kiss the seal on her forehead right now, and everything will click into place for her.

Well, they'd have to admit that NaruSaku had the big guns.

 

That's why they gloss over that very important scene.

 

Cuz that scene has so many connections within the plot itself, I can't even begin to explain. Maybe someday I will write a post about this.

Cuz it's one of THE most important scene, I kid you not.

 

Not only it has the hero and heroine aspect, but by juxtaposition to Kushina's parallel, it also has the shinobi aspect in it.

 

And that aspect on itself builds on other themes that have to do with Naruto. That was such an inherently deeply connected to the actual plot that like I said, I cannot begin to explain right now.

 

I still have to finish that damn blog article cuz it's taking me a lifetime to!!

all it really takes is her finding out that it was truly Naruto who unlocked her heart and made her want to get lovey dovey in Chapter 3, and she would instantly see where her love truly lies. But, they know if she figured it out, that would be the nail in the coffin for NH and SS. Funny how she always has flashbacks about everything but the bench scene, the scene that literally made her believe that Sasuke was her soulmate when it was really Naruto. Funny how she never questions it and tries to get to the bottom of why Sasuke treats her like garbage when he claimed its his dream to kiss her forehead. Funny how they all remember the Proud Failure speech between Naruto and Hinata and calls that love but forgets completely about Chapter 3. All Naruto has to literally do is seek her out, and kiss the seal on her forehead right now, and everything will click into place for her.

Well, they'd have to admit that NaruSaku had the big guns.

 

That's why they gloss over that very important scene.

Edited by Chatte, 26 September 2020 - 08:31 AM.

[Illnevergiveup3]

And what about Naruto's vow to tell Sakura how he felt about her after he brought back Sasuke, whether she accepted his feelings or not?  What happened to that promise?

exactly. That's why I blame Naruto the most out of both of them. He's the man that's always about action, he loved her his whole life, he needs to step up to the plate and do what he needed to do; and I know he wouldn't give up until he got her just like with everything else.  If Naruto confessed, it's no way she would ever say no. I imagine her just smiling through tears at his confession, and we know Naruto's confession would probably be a little dorky but he would definitely know how to woo her at the same time. She would never say no to him because it was clear that she felt the same. If he seeked her out right now just to confess, that would literally be the end of SS and NH.

[Illnevergiveup3]

 

That's the problem with SS in regards to Sakura.

 

Sakura was shown actively getting over Sasuke. Or at least become WAAY more rational than she used to be. Hell, actually Sakura was quite rational back in part 1 as well. 

 

Remember giving up on Sasuke's chance at Chuunin Exams for Sasuke? Remember going bazinga at him for his cowardice back when Orochimaru attacks after she throws a kunai to save Naruto's fall?

 

Also, when she sees Naruto hurt after the whole Sasuke thing, she goes and asks Tsunade for training?

 

Sakura has always been proactive AND rational when it came to Sasuke. EVEN when she confessed to him, her rationality told her well: the dude's gonna leave town. And she was right.

 

Despite her little crush on Sasuke who only made her act stupidly in chapter 3, afterwards, Sakura starts growing a damn sense.

 

In Part 2 it's even more obvious. And the manga builds it so that the longing is more for Naruto than Sasuke himself. 

 

I'm actually rereading the manga (BOY IT TAKES ME A LIFETIME!) for an article I want to post on my blog for the NaruSaku symbolism series and when I got to part 2 beginning, the way Kishi drew her and continued with it along the manga up to a point, you could feel the longing Sakura had for Naruto.

 

She had one for Sasuke, yes, more like in terms of not being able to save him/stop him that night. But with Naruto? It was built more like in the tones of - I love how I felt when I was near him and how he made me feel kind of thing.

 

Asking him if she's more womanly? She felt confident and at ease ENOUGH to do that. She'd never feel that way around Sasuke. What gives it in? Chapter 3 when she thinks about the forehead aspect in regards to wooing Sasuke.

 

Because it's her make-believe wish. WHO GUESS WHO GRANTS IT??? The dumb blonde disguised as the cocky brunette.

 

That's why in part 2, until it all went down the hill, Sakura is actively shown getting over Sasuke and getting the necessary character development to do so.

 

Hell, when they meet him, who is the one who puts Naruto back on his feet? It's Sakura! Yes, she is crying. But she's standing firm and it's she who puts Naruto back on track.

 

Like you said, she was about to hit Sasuke if not for Yamato interrupting her. She had the emotional maturity to go head to head with him. It doesn't matter if power scale she lacked. But this manga was more about emotional maturity than anything else, at its core.

 

AND SAKURA HAD IT!

 

But to fulfill their stupid agendas, they erased that aspect of hers!! TOTALLY! They didn't even let her with the emotional maturity of her beginning days. 

 

Sakura not getting back at him for leaving her with Sarada? And leave her raise Sarada on her own? That's not a Sakura I would recognize. 

 

If 12 years old Sakura lashed at Sasuke for Naruto, almost 30 Sakura doesn't so for HER DAUGHTER? 

 

I call it what it is: BULL kitten!

 

Bbbbut he is in supa dupa important missiiuuun that only he can do. Okay, so? He still has MEANS to talk to his family.

 

A goddamn note on a bird - if not a phone since we're this big tech era. You know, the old ways.

 

Anything. WHEN YOU WANT IT THAT BAD, YOU FIND A WAY!

When you don't? You find an excuse.

 

Which is basically Boruto's whole damn basis. An excuse of a story, that's half assessed at best.

 

A mindless vessel where no-name editors put their fanfic-y imagination so they can get the so much wanted ovations, probably.

 

But what do I know, right?

 

 

 

Well, they'd have to admit that NaruSaku had the big guns.

 

That's why they gloss over that very important scene.

 

Cuz that scene has so many connections within the plot itself, I can't even begin to explain. Maybe someday I will write a post about this.

Cuz it's one of THE most important scene, I kid you not.

 

Not only it has the hero and heroine aspect, but by juxtaposition to Kushina's parallel, it also has the shinobi aspect in it.

 

And that aspect on itself builds on other themes that have to do with Naruto. That was such an inherently deeply connected to the actual plot that like I said, I cannot begin to explain right now.

 

I still have to finish that damn blog article cuz it's taking me a lifetime to!!

Well, they'd have to admit that NaruSaku had the big guns.

 

That's why they gloss over that very important scene.

at the end of Gaiden, they literally showed her wanting a forehead kiss from Sasuke, but they turned it into comedic relief when he declined her yet again. I have a feeling that the forehead and bench will come back into play eventually.

[Phantom_999]

What's really infuriating about this fanbase is that those who attempt to argue for the legitimacy of NH have no real stance. First it's Sakura isn't his love interest, then it's they only had a brother/sister relationship, then it's Naruto only had a crush on her, then it's Naruto needs to move on because Sakura has feelings for Sasuke. Each of their arguments contradict with each other so heavily it makes my head spin. Which one is it? At the end of the day, these are all easily proven to be false. It really was a wake up call that people just didn't care what the manga stated, ignored it and created their own narratives to fit their ideals. Even Neji, his death seriously went against a key principle of this story. There's no one who should be arguing as to why he should have died.

He literally met the cruel fate he was 'destined' to fulfill, to protect the main family. What happened to controlling your own fate and changing it? Neji's death hit hard because it was extremely unnecessary and literally the only way you that could have spurred development between NH. In 616, which TL was already in the works by then- is the one stand out moment between them that was needed to base the pairing on mutual meaningful interaction. Even in this scenario where there was still no romantic indication from Naruto, it was still a bonding moment. Neji was indeed the catalyst that created the situation. He had to die because he and Hinata's plot lines are intertwined due to their familial ties. Without Neji, who represented the issues within their clan, Hinata's main story line practically disappears into thin air. All that's left is her feelings for Naruto. That's why all you see after that chapter is her saying 'I wanna be with him.. Forever!!'. It's why in 693 you see the same thing with Sakura, yet, with her, there was no set-up situation that needed to happen, they just had to regress her all the way back to chapter 3. It blew my mind to see Sakura be erased/reversed like this, and I don't want to hear it when people say that she's 'always been like this.'. First time Sasuke left that is obviously given a pass given it was the first time he left the village and it was during the height of Sakura's feelings for Sasuke. The second time she encountered him, did she not go to attack before Yamato interjected? The third time, she literally decided to take his life because he was too far gone. Yet, despite the fact that Sakura is far from stupid and knowing how Sasuke changed dramatically after he left, she would think that saying 'I still love you' during the fourth encounter would do anything? Even in desperation, Sakura is not a rash individual. Sorry but that isn't the Sakura that was shown throughout the manga, even in part 1. If anyone would like to add to this feel free. I'm not sure if I'm missing some key details here.

Also it's funny how significant chapter 3 is, yet, everyone forgets what Naruto said to Sakura disguised as Sasuke. I can't help but think that Naruto really shot himself in the foot there.

 

They can't decide on a legitimate argument because they've been proven wrong on all fronts. They just won't admit it. "Sakura was never his love interest." But I don't see Hinata anywhere near Naruto's vicinity when there is a moment with romantic undertones. That was only ever between Naruto and Sakura and not to mention it was mutual. I never see any moments between Naruto and Hinata or Sasuke and Sakura EVER being mutal and recipricol. "They only have a brother/sister relationship." Yet Sakura offered to feed him that one time which the only other character that got that treatment was Sasuke. Last time I checked, only "the love interest" of a character in many anime and manga did that. "Naruto only had a crush on her". Well Naruto almost got himself killed for a promise that he had no obligation to make in the first place to her. And he always puts her happiness above his own, etc. etc. If there is anyone that considers that "JUST A CRUSH" I would love to meet such a person  "He has to move on from Sakura because she still has feelings for Sasuke." Well here is the punchline, dumb@$$es. THAT means he's settling for Hinata like a second place prize. And here I thought Hinata was the "love of his life" and that he always held her as first place inside his heart but now you admit he needs to move on form Sakura? So you ARE SAYING he loves Sakura then. And again that just blends in with my argument about Naruto showing genuine love to the girl THAT IS NOT HINATA.

 

All of these nonsensical arguments are only to prove in their demented minds that Hinata deserves Naruto and she is his one true love because Sakura Haruno is a *beep beep beep* in their opinion for not liking Naruto at first and therefore are adamant in saying she never will. Hinata's supporters never supported her for a logical reason nor is it actually about romance and relationships. It is all about hating Sakura's initial attitude towards Naruto and that he desrves an "easy girl" that he can win over without effort. As a side note, that seems to be the mentality of Tsundere haters these days. They just want the MC to get with an "easy nice girl" that won't say no to them and has a passive nurturing personality because they are sick of the tsundere archetype despite whether or not there is actual development between the tsundere and the MC. 

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 September 2020 - 08:45 AM.

[Chatte]

 

They can't decide on a legitimate argument because they've been proven wrong on all fronts. They just won't admit it. "Sakura was never his love interest." But I don't see Hinata anywhere near in Naruto's vicinity when there is a moment with romantic undertones. That was only ever between Naruto and Sakura and not to mention it was mutual. I never see any moments between Naruto and Hinata or Sasuke and Sakura EVER being mutal and recipricol. "They only have a brother/sister relationship." Yet Sakura offered to feed him that one time which the only other person that got that treatment was Sasuke. Last time I checked, only "the love interest" of a character in many anime and manga did that. "Naruto only had a crush on her". Well Naruto almost got himself killed for a promise that he had no obligation to make in the first place to her. And he always puts her happiness above his own, etc. etc. If there is anyone that considers that "JUST A CRUSH" I would love to meet such a person  "He has to move on from Sakura because she still has feelings for Sasuke." Well here is the kicker, dumb@$$es. THAT means he's settling for Hinata like a second place prize. And here I thought Hinata was the "love of his life" and that he always held her as first place inside his heart but now you admit he needs to move on form Sakura? So you ARE SAYING he loves Sakura then. And again that just blends in with my argument about Naruto showing genuine love to the girl THAT IS NOT HINATA.

 

All of these nonsensical arguments are only to prove in their demented minds that Hinata deserves Naruto and she is his one true love because Sakura Haruno is a *beep beep beep* in their opinion for not liking Naruto at first and therefore are adamant in saying she never will. Hinata's supporters never supported her for a logical reason nor is it actually about romance and relationships, it is all about hating Sakura's initial attitude towards Naruto and that he desrves an "easy girl" that he can win over without effort. As a side note, that seems to be the mentality of Tsundere haters these days. They just want the MC to get with an "easy nice girl" that won't say no to them and has a passive nurturing personality because they are sick of the tsundere archetype despite whether or not there is actual development between the tsundere and the MC. 

Speaking of the feeding scene, with rereading the manga, I've seen how basically Kishimoto mirrored/paralleled everything he did back in Part 1 with SasuSaku, to NaruSaku back in part 2.

 

What we had as clear moments of Sakura displaying affection to Sasuke that the reader was supposed to understand as love, were the same that we had her display for Naruto in Part 2, slowly following the steady but slow development started back in Part 1.

 

Hell, even the databooks say that 'now she really likes Sasuke, but maybe in the future she'll start liking Naruto too' or something along the lines.

 

The point was that the object of her affection Sasuke, might change and be directed at Naruto. AND IT DID SO!

 

Sakura displaying worry for Sasuke back in Part 1? She displays the same kind of worry for Naruto.

 

Sakura displaying admiration for Sasuke's coolness? She displays real actual admiration for Naruto back in part 2.

 

Sakura being attracted to Sasuke? She begins feeling attracted to Naruto.

 

Sakura 'battling' others for Sasuke's attention? Sakura realizes Hinata is in love with Naruto AND BOY she has an interesting reaction.

 

Sakura displaying care for Sasuke in the hospital back in part 1? Sakura takes care of Naruto in the hospital after his Rasenshuriken training.

 

Sakura cutting apples for Sasuke back in the hospital, to feed him? Sakura offers to feed Naruto in part 2.

 

Like, there are so many examples of this, I can't even begin to talk about... But for some reason, people stubbornly remained at chapter 3 Sakura (cuz you can't say part 1, given how she's actively shown to change her behavior). Because it was easy to foster their idea of big bad Sakura, rather to see the slow and steady progressive move she made from Sasuke to Naruto.

 

AND MIND YOU IN THE SAME CONTEXT! One which we see romantic, but the other one we decide not to, cuz bananas...

[Illnevergiveup3]

not to mention that all of those things she did for Naruto literally shows her doing it with so much love, that what she did with Sasuke doesn't even begin to compare. For example:

 

The way she looked at "Sasuke" in Chapter 3 directly compares to the way she looked at Naruto in Chapter 245, with the way she put her finger to lip and all. The only difference is that the way she looked at Naruto displayed much more longing than how she ever looked at Sasuke. The way she cried over Sasuke during the Zabuza fight didn't compare in any way to how she cried over Naruto on the bridge to the point that she literally wore her love for him on her sleeve. She was literally willing to confront his 4-Tailed state just to make sure he was safe, that literally shows everything we need to know. I could spend forever listing everything she has done to show her love for Naruto.

 

Sakura-Chan was literally like, "So Sasuke, you want to pass the Chunnin Exams? Who gives a kitten, Naruto's dream is much more important." That was the point where you could see hints of her putting Naruto in her most important people list even over Sasuke.

[BlueStarSaber]

We probably need a different studio as well given how Tokyo ghoul was handled by SP and it 12 episode per season show

[Derock]

All of y'all are speaking straight facts. Most importantly, facts that are almost impossible to misinterpret and downplay as if they meant nothing. I seriously cannot even process the sheer amount of development that has happened from the beginning. It's heartbreaking, really.

You know, given the influence of the anime, I wonder if had they sticked to Naruto being made in seasons like SNK, MHA, Tokyo Ghoul etc. if we would have been in this mess at all. With a 24 episode per season structure, there would be absolutely little to no room for filler. No filler that contradicts, skews, erases, adds, misinterprets... nothing. Just straight content from the manga. As well, content that would be given top notch animation and no room for slacking (ex. Anime Sakura vs. Manga Sakura.).

 

I had said about that a year ago.  If the anime was handled differently by using seasonal formats, it will give enough time to progress while the manga is running ahead. No unnecessary fillers unless it's needed for stuff that was missing in the manga (i.e. time constraints). We would definitely hadn't given those long fillers from Part 1, especially "naked Hinata at the waterfall". Not sure who will handle the top animation though.

[Phantom_999]

All of y'all are speaking straight facts. Most importantly, facts that are almost impossible to misinterpret and downplay as if they meant nothing. I seriously cannot even process the sheer amount of development that has happened from the beginning. It's heartbreaking, really.

You know, given the influence of the anime, I wonder if had they sticked to Naruto being made in seasons like SNK, MHA, Tokyo Ghoul etc. if we would have been in this mess at all. With a 24 episode per season structure, there would be absolutely little to no room for filler. No filler that contradicts, skews, erases, adds, misinterprets... nothing. Just straight content from the manga. As well, content that would be given top notch animation and no room for slacking (ex. Anime Sakura vs. Manga Sakura.).

 

Given that the anime did not finish off for at least a go 2-3 years  after the manga ended at least, a Seasonal anime wouldn't sound too bad. The quality will be consistent at least. For some reason though, All the popular manga based anime back then ran continously without breaks

Edited by Phantom_999, 27 September 2020 - 08:55 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Plus the fillers often could be problematic besides inconsistencies, since it didnt help much in the long run either with the fanatics having used that as the basis for a lot of the bad crap the ending would get. Dragon Ball Z had some bad inconsistencies with its filler but at least Toei wasnt as bad as Studio Perry-Ott (borrowing that one from you, James!) when it came to it.

Look even at what they did with Bleach and Tokyo Ghoul of recent anime of theirs! Even with Yu Yu Hakusho and some past works they werent this bad. Even Black Clover has been more consistent to the manga!

[James S Cassidy]

 

You said somewhere that Hinata was Popular only in the U.S. really and that was an exception rather than the norm. Sakura and the NaruSaku ship was actually more popular world wide right? Just checking

As far as I have seen, NaruSaku was far more well-liked in every other country. Now to keep in mind two details. The Naruto fandom is not always as big in other places as it is in the U.S. or Japan and popularity polls now are I think only the indication of people still interested in the series at all while most people abandoned the series as time went on.

If Hinata SEEMS like she has more fans now, best to look how many votes they have. Take Japan's polls for example. Hinata moved over the list rather quickly, but then they have gotten less and less votes in which to me indicated people stopped caring and the Hinata fans remained.

When Naruto was at the peak of popularity, Hinata was number 11 and Neji was number 6 on the polls. Sakura usually fluxed between 5 and 8, btu she still remained more popular than Hinata. Sasuke was obviously number 2 with Kakashi Number 1 and Naruto usually at 3.

I remember when the popularity polls has people gaining votes in the thousands. Now they are lucky if each character breaks 500 votes.

[Chatte]

As far as I have seen, NaruSaku was far more well-liked in every other country. Now to keep in mind two details. The Naruto fandom is not always as big in other places as it is in the U.S. or Japan and popularity polls now are I think only the indication of people still interested in the series at all while most people abandoned the series as time went on.

If Hinata SEEMS like she has more fans now, best to look how many votes they have. Take Japan's polls for example. Hinata moved over the list rather quickly, but then they have gotten less and less votes in which to me indicated people stopped caring and the Hinata fans remained.

When Naruto was at the peak of popularity, Hinata was number 11 and Neji was number 6 on the polls. Sakura usually fluxed between 5 and 8, btu she still remained more popular than Hinata. Sasuke was obviously number 2 with Kakashi Number 1 and Naruto usually at 3.

I remember when the popularity polls has people gaining votes in the thousands. Now they are lucky if each character breaks 500 votes.

 

That's why I say statistics don't always reflect reality... because it's very much dependent on the conditions said statistic was done.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

That's why I say statistics don't always reflect reality... because it's very much dependent on the conditions said statistic was done.

 

That's for sure in all kinds of fields, Chatte.

[Phantom_999]

 

That's why I say statistics don't always reflect reality... because it's very much dependent on the conditions said statistic was done.

 

Well at the very least, it is ill advised to to take statistics at face value. ALWAYS ask questions.

[Chatte]

 

Well at the very least, it is ill advised to to take statistics at face value. ALWAYS ask questions.

Yeah but that's what people do nowadays. They just see things on the surface, don't go deeper into the result. 

 

With me it's different cuz my parents raised me so - to put to questioning absolutely everything. And if it's something good, then it will have no 'plot holes' so to speak, if not, something's fishy.

 

But I guess that depends on education and environment/culture as well? And nowadays, we live in a cultural era that takes things face value and rarely go in depth with something.

 

And I think it's an aftermath of the consumerism culture which has accustomed us to get our gratification instantly, you know? Cuz you have that sweet vase. And if it breaks, you can always replace it with a new one. Why bother and go through the hassle of repairing it, like go and lose time on buying glue, sticking the pieces together again, wait for the glue to dry and all that.

 

You get what I mean.

 

And I think it's because the same effect, NH and SS were preferred over NS. NS had that longstanding work to do. SS and NH came over like self-gratification replacement. 

[James S Cassidy]

 

That's why I say statistics don't always reflect reality... because it's very much dependent on the conditions said statistic was done.

Statistics are complicated mess. It gives a general idea of the situation at the moment, but not the direct idea. Even in political elections people don't seem to understand. "This candidate won the popular vote. How did they not win?" Well, because the population of each state is different and if we did it by popular vote alone, then one state/city/etc. would be deciding everything every time. Basically becoming a mob mentality on a political scale. What if a candidate lost the popular vote, but won more states...does that mean they should win because they win 45 out 50 states?

This doesn't even have to be on a national scale. This can be on a city scale. Imagine voters in one group dictating the rule sets for EVERYONE regardless of how the "population" truly feels overall.

When it comes to this, however, the studios only seem too look at a partial group. Even Kishimoto said there was a huge rift between the NS and NH that he didn't know was there. If we take this as truth, and I believe it is one of the few things that is true, then it is possible they told him NH was more popular and so he should make that reality not realizing that it is not NH that was popular, but Hinata herself.

They didn't really give a crap about NH. They cared more about Hinata and what she wanted. If Kishimoto had Hinata change her mind and say "I am in love with Kiba," then I guarantee that they would be KibaHIna fans in a heart beat.

Hinata have had more fans, but NS certainly had more support not just from NS fans, but from EVERY pairing fans in the entire series. Everyone knew that the story supported NaruSaku more than NH and SS. Everyone knew this to be true and they ignored most of the fandom for the Hinata-centric fans. The fans who only cared about Hinata.

SNS fans, SK fans, KibaHIna fans, RockSaku, HinaNeji, RockTen, NaruIno, and many many more groups all were in agreement that if any couple had the most development and made the most sense...it was NaruSaku. Even some NH and SS fans agreed and some even abandoned their own ship for it because of how NH and SS played out. Some even forgot why they liked Hinata in the first place.

The argument was always the same "Naruto needs to be with Hinata because SHE supported him first." It was never about what she did for Naruto or how she made him a better person or anything of that sort. Because she SUPPORTED him first. What a selfish way of looking at it. Meanwhile, here we are saying "NaruSaku should be canon because Sakura can be herself around Naruto and Naruto becomes a better man because of her influence. It was a beautiful relationship where they complemented each other, worked off each other's strength and weaknesses, and overall was just a realistic pairing.

NH is a fan fiction pipe dream of the so called "perfect relationship" and it is dysfunctional. Hinata is so passive about Naruto that she refuses to talk to him on an adult level and explain why he needs to do better. Sakura would have set him straight.

This is why they are trying so hard to now all of a sudden make Hinata have this anger streak, have an attitude, and be strict. "How scary." Boruto would say. Well, one it doesn't fit Hinata's personality in the slightest and two the anger outburst are more destructive than constructive. Not saying anger itself is good or bad, but rather she seems like a ticking timebomb now. Remember the episode of The Simpsons where Flanders suddenly just snaps due to always be a good person and has pent up rage and then explodes on people.

https://youtu.be/_1vTGN52MCc

Sakura on the other hand, while a bit over the top, but it is anime after, shows more constructive anger at least with Naruto. Look at the difference between her anger with Naruto and her anger with her own daughter. Anger with Naruto causes him to get playfully hit and scolded for being immature. Sakura's anger with her own daughter caused her to DESTROY HER WHOLE HOUSE. Sasuke causes so much pent up angst and anger with Sakura that she becomes very destructive and brings out the worst in her.

There is a difference between healthy anger....and unhealthy anger. Real humans needs healthy anger to relieve the stress of life. Keep it to yourself and eventually it explodes.

NaruSaku is NOT a flawless couple, but it was perfect and the most realistic of them all.

Most of the fandom knew this...and yet Hinata got the most attention because "she was most loved character?" You took the opinions of a few and made it seem like it was the majority.


 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 30 September 2020 - 06:58 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Statistics are complicated mess. It gives a general idea of the situation at the moment, but not the direct idea. Even in political elections people don't seem to understand. "This candidate won the popular vote. How did they not win?" Well, because the population of each state is different and if we did it by popular vote alone, then one state/city/etc. would be deciding everything every time. Basically becoming a mob mentality on a political scale. What if a candidate lost the popular vote, but won more states...does that mean they should win because they win 45 out 50 states?

This doesn't even have to be on a national scale. This can be on a city scale. Imagine voters in one group dictating the rule sets for EVERYONE regardless of how the "population" truly feels overall.

When it comes to this, however, the studios only seem too look at a partial group. Even Kishimoto said there was a huge rift between the NS and NH that he didn't know was there. If we take this as truth, and I believe it is one of the few things that is true, then it is possible they told him NH was more popular and so he should make that reality not realizing that it is not NH that was popular, but Hinata herself.

They didn't really give a crap about NH. They cared more about Hinata and what she wanted. If Kishimoto had Hinata change her mind and say "I am in love with Kiba," then I guarantee that they would be KibaHIna fans in a heart beat.

Hinata have had more fans, but NS certainly had more support not just from NS fans, but from EVERY pairing fans in the entire series. Everyone knew that the story supported NaruSaku more than NH and SS. Everyone knew this to be true and they ignored most of the fandom for the Hinata-centric fans. The fans who only cared about Hinata.

SNS fans, SK fans, KibaHIna fans, RockSaku, HinaNeji, RockTen, NaruIno, and many many more groups all were in agreement that if any couple had the most development and made the most sense...it was NaruSaku. Even some NH and SS fans agreed and some even abandoned their own ship for it because of how NH and SS played out. Some even forgot why they liked Hinata in the first place.

The argument was always the same "Naruto needs to be with Hinata because SHE supported him first." It was never about what she did for Naruto or how she made him a better person or anything of that sort. Because she SUPPORTED him first. What a selfish way of looking at it. Meanwhile, here we are saying "NaruSaku should be canon because Sakura can be herself around Naruto and Naruto becomes a better man because of her influence. It was a beautiful relationship where they complemented each other, worked off each other's strength and weaknesses, and overall was just a realistic pairing.

NH is a fan fiction pipe dream of the so called "perfect relationship" and it is dysfunctional. Hinata is so passive about Naruto that she refuses to talk to him on an adult level and explain why he needs to do better. Sakura would have set him straight.

This is why they are trying so hard to now all of a sudden make Hinata have this anger streak, have an attitude, and be strict. "How scary." Boruto would say. Well, one it doesn't fit Hinata's personality in the slightest and two the anger outburst are more destructive than constructive. Not saying anger itself is good or bad, but rather she seems like a ticking timebomb now. Remember the episode of The Simpsons where Flanders suddenly just snaps due to always be a good person and has pent up rage and then explodes on people.

https://youtu.be/_1vTGN52MCc

Sakura on the other hand, while a bit over the top, but it is anime after, shows more constructive anger at least with Naruto. Look at the difference between her anger with Naruto and her anger with her own daughter. Anger with Naruto causes him to get playfully hit and scolded for being immature. Sakura's anger with her own daughter caused her to DESTROY HER WHOLE HOUSE. Sasuke causes so much pent up angst and anger with Sakura that she becomes very destructive and brings out the worst in her.

There is a difference between healthy anger....and unhealthy anger. Real humans needs healthy anger to relieve the stress of life. Keep it to yourself and eventually it explodes.

NaruSaku is NOT a flawless couple, but it was perfect and the most realistic of them all.

Most of the fandom knew this...and yet Hinata got the most attention because "she was most loved character?" You took the opinions of a few and made it seem like it was the majority.

The loud minority vs. the silent majority, dude. It's a damn shame how sad it is in the long run. Not to mention with Sakura's anger to Sarada, I like to imagine it's her not liking dealing with the fact her so called husband didn't choose her first given the evidence of Sarada being his and Karin's daughter, not hers, even if she raised her.

 

It just shows too how even as imperfect as NaruSaku is, Naruto and Sakura brought the best in each other, not the worst like they seem to have in canon right now given Naruto avoids his family likely due to the fact he's only with Hinata out of guilt and likely his despising Boruto and Himawari for costing his inauguration, particularly Hima for going nuts just because Boruto accidentally tore her teddy bear, and how Sakura is miserable that she has all that pent-up anger and can't deal with it well.

[Moon_Girl]

 Oh my gosh. I've honestly skimmed through the Boruto manga but I haven't had a chance to see the other stuff. This is disgusting! How the utter kitten do you have Naruto's inaugural ceremony be messed up because of that? That moment should have been one of the most emotionally charged in the series. Yet you have these children ruining it, and for what, comic relief?

Was Naruto's important people even there? The people who have been with him on this journey throughout the series? Ah, sorry, my mistake. I forgot Hinata is the only important one now. Forgive me.

You didn't know about that? I guess I can't blame you. No one really even said much about it except the antis on tumblr. 
It really should have been a huge outrage. I think by the time it came out, most of the actual fans had bailed. Otherwise I'm sure it would have been an extremely HUGE outrage. Of course the pro enders didn't care at all. "Haha look Hinata's love baby knocked her prize out on the most important day of his life, isn't it so funny and kawaii?"

I dunno about anyone else, when I saw that I was enraged. Salt in the already giant wound. It feels like Kishimoto was just like "My series is already ruined, might as well make it worse."
It really feels like, after the ending, everything he did just made it worse.
Sasuke is a deadbeat father who didn't see his ''wife'' and ''child'' for 12 straight years. Straight up had a one night stand with Sakura and bailed.
Naruto doesn't gaf about his wife and kids and cares more about Team 7. Can't blame him. I'm 110% certain the ending was SUPPOSED to be all about Team 7 being together forever ect ect. Not breaking up because of the mary-sue that is Hinatatas.
The 'who's the mom' fiasco that had to explain the obvious SasuKarin child design away.
Ruining the main character's life long dream and goal over "haha his unwanted child just knocked him out how funny and cute. His dream just got crapped on. Haha. Oh well. At least Hinatata got what she wanted in the end."

I'm way too certain Kishimoto tried to ruin NH/SS without breaking them up (Probably because the editors/studio wouldn't let him). Yet somehow, despite his best efforts, failed. There are still huge fans who don't see the absolute radioactive, toxic, rotting pile of sludge that is NH/SS because their ship goggles are on so tightly that it cuts off the blood flow to their brains.