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Masashi Kishimoto Interview with The French Distributor, Kana


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#1 LuckyChi7

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:19 PM

As the title suggest this interview comes from French Naruto Distributor, Kana: 

 

 

I : There are lot of orphans in Naruto. Are you interested in that character archetype ?

Kishi : I had the chance to grow in a happy family with my parents. But I had the opportunity to watch closely what loneliness can do to a person with a few of my old friends being orphans. There was this friend who was older than me and I got along with him pretty well. As time went on and we grew closer, I could see his frustration of being orphan.

Nobody gave him the newest toy and there was nobody giving him presents either. This person left quite a impact on me, and I remember when I used to feel sorry for him, he told me that parents can be a source of problems and conflicts. This was maybe true, but I felt this answer was some sort of pride or provocation to me. I don't know why, but as a kid, I was very curious and sensitive about family problems.

I remember listening carefully to my friends' stories about how their parents divorced and how they were living with their mothers. They were entrusting their problems to me and I tried to give them advices as best as I could. At the same time, I grew conscious of their problems and psychological states.

Thus, when the time came I went to tell a story about ninjas, I remembered those little villages from Nara ... like Iga or Kouga, where one could really learn to be a spy. Death was something that was ackwnoledged early on in such a carreer and children in training knew they wouldn't get to know their parents for very long. Once I decided that Naruto and his friends were going to be orphans, the memories of my childhood friends ( And especially this older friend ) came back to me and everything that came with that. I knew what I was going to tell and I dove into my childhood memories to create the multiple characters of Naruto. I had so much to tell.

I : By the way, relations by blood, real families ... when they exists in Naruto are always dysfunctional. Like the only family that matters are the ninjas, this gigantic community. Where did this idea came from ?

Kishi : Not limitating families by their blood relations seemed mandatory to me. The most obvious example of this is the relation between Naruto & Jiraiya. These two lonely beings, an hermit and an orphan, made the master/student relation works very well. It's very family like. The word "family" as most people understand it is too limited as far as I'm concerned.

Especially since I'm writing for children who may or may not face the problem of parents divorcing.
This conception of families comes from the region I grew up in, where peoples used to get together in groups called "Kumis" ( Clans or Groups in japanese. ) The custom was that you have to treat each member of the community like your own family. At home, the clan was called "Kou-Gumi". And we used to gather in groups of 8 or 10 to gather wood to prepare the baths, others would cultivate rice and those who finish early would help the others.

Members of clans would gather each month to eat together and at funerals they were on the first seats. If one of the family would invite the priest to eat after the funeral ceremony, the others members of the clan were invited at the dinner too. The way the clan worked was like a real family, so this is why this "Kumi" system left such an impact on me. My village, in a way, worked like the communities created by the ninjas of old.

Thus this experience influenced me when I created the ninja village system in Naruto. From the start, the ninjas were supposed to be one big family

I : In the end, Naruto & Sasuke are two faces of the same problem : They're orphans. But they cope in completely different ways.

Kishi : This was deliberate of me that those two characters would oppose each other by how they think. The difference is that Naruto is orphan by birth, but Sasuke still has his parents. And Sasuke suffers from his parents presence, but he suffers a lot more after they die. And that's where their first emotional difference is.

Sasuke says Naruto can't understand his suffering because he never had the chance to have a bond with his parents. And in truth, Naruto really doesn't get it. Naruto will eventually form a close master/student bond with Jiraiya. Jiraiya gives attention, teaching and care to Naruto, a bit like a foster father.

A foster father Naruto will grow to like and who will eventually be killed by Pain. At this point Naruto understand what a family can feel like and starts to understand what Sasuke could feel. But this experience comes too late and he doesn't get the chance to talk about it with Sasuke.
Their reaction to losing close ones makes them even more different. Sasuke let himself be controlled by hatred. A hatred as strong as the love he used to feel. But for Naruto, the loss comes with a self reflection about revenge, pain and how personality and actions can evolve based on that. After seeing what revenge did to Sasuke, Naruto shows an enormous amount of self restrain and he feels he must learn to control himself to not become like this.

That's his true performance as the hero: He survives pain & loss without abandoning himself to vengeance and hatred, realising the difference between self interest and public interest.
I continued to play with this opposition so it could grow step by step. I wanted to take the reader by surprise. Naruto, at first, seems very emotional and instinctive and Sasuke is the one who seems cold & emotionless. But as time goes on, the roles are reversed. Emotions and logic aren't always obvious at first.

To be frank, the reality is more complex. I feel closer to Sasuke as I would never be able to forget or forgive the one who murders my family. I can see myself in the way Sasuke reacts but reacting like him lead to an overwhelming amount of hatred and violence and to war. History repeats itself and the circle must be broken.

This manga talks a lot about not repeating the errors of the past. And to be completely honest, overcoming traumatic experiences like Naruto does seems a bit idealist and naive to me. Even though, this kind of utopic idealism has to be written and defended in Shounen mangas. Shounen mangas must carry hope,above all.

I : More often than not, the children falls victims to their parents plot but they don't object and are kind of submissive in that aspect. Especially Naruto himself. Did you realized this and can you explain behind your desire to show Naruto's optimism, his childhood bullied by society.

Kishi : I was a very obedient kid and never contested the authority of adults, my parents or even my teachers. Their words were truth to me and I never asked myself questions. Very naturally, this part of me went into my characters. Most of the kids I knew were like me and those who were more Independent, more free or more "Punk" I should say never really left an impact on me. I didn't feel like putting them in my story.

By instinct, I naturally puts "good kids" in my stories. When capitalism came into japan, after the war, it led to a very comfortable time for my generation. That's why the least I could do was to thank them and obey as a sign of gratitude.

I was scared of my parents and the society of course, but I never had particular frustration of any kind. I silently noted the contradictions of the adults speeches and just didn't voice my opinion. In my mangas, of course, I voice my opinion. I voice my opinion more clearly, more freely since I write the story of the world I create. That's a bit cowardly, maybe ( laugh. ) I won't say I'm an anarchist, I'm a rather obedient person outside of my stories.

I : The world of Naruto is always attacked by various threats, first policics. But bit by bit, you reveal that the hatred the enemies feel is just a mask, a mask to hide childhood trauma, psyche wounds and personal scars that time changed into some crazy project.

Kishi : In the first chapters of Naruto, I already talk about power struggles, politics and the main projects of the main Trio. But what interest me isn't the end goal, but how they came to have that goal in the first place. How did they came to act like they do ? I really dig this psychological process. I think the reader is like me: He wants to understand. So I talk about the place the characters grow up, the reasoning behind their acts. I try to make the reader feel empathy for a character who seems evil at first sight.

Because that's the thing. In most of the shounen mangas, the enemy is the ultimate evil. He can't be reasoned with. But countless mangas do that already and I didn't want Naruto to be just a repeat of other stories.

So rather than focusing on the enemy's powers and actions, I would rather tell his birth, and how he turned into a monster. The motivations of those characters are often rather simple, It's always personal, like childhood problems or traumatic experiences that makes the reader identify to the character and feel empathy to him.

I always try to give some hints about their past here and there so the characters aren't too simple. I progress step by step to make sure the reader can identify to the character slowly and progressively. I make sure to create characters that feels different from eachother, and different from the other jump mangas.

I : Talking about differences, one of best thing of Naruto is your work on the character's designs. You didn't use any medieval japan and military stereotypes. You work on the clothes, you're aware about fashion and what's popular. Where do these influences come from ?

Kishi : The animators of the animated series Naruto often praise me for my designs, because on how crazy they are, which makes my job even more difficult. Personally, I'm not really aware if it's good or not. It may seems obvious, but I wanted to distance myself away from the cliche ninja dressed in black on purpose.

I didn't see any point in using an image that has been used countless time already. So I took the opposite direction. A little blond guy with a jumpsuit, and not even japanese. I wanted my character to be stateless, like Akira Toriyama's characters. That was the basic idea.
Then there are some particularities based on my personal obsessions, like zippers.

I found it funny to use anachronism in this medieval like setting, like the sandals. I love drawing toes and feet. I must be a fetishist of toes and fingers. Okay, that came out weird, I admit.
About the basic designs, I used to read some fashion magazines and took inspirations from some fashion design I like so I could custom them into my characters.

But I eventually stopped putting too much details, the designs were getting to complicated for a weekly manga.

I : You mentioned Akira Toriyama. With Katsuhiro Otomo, he's one of your biggest inspiration. You were influenced a lot by their styles and even today you have difficulties distancing yourself from their styles. Today, as a professional, how would you describe Otomo & Toriyama's styles, in technical terms. And what is left of their work today ?

Kishi : Otomo and Toriyama impressed me the moment I discovered their mangas, when I was a teen. Akira Toriyama forever changed shounen mangas with his "pop"ish designs. I drew a lot from Dragon Ball to create Naruto. An initiatory journey, the character gets older, he faces incredible difficulties that can't be overcome at first and he must overcome those trials with incredible efforts and a story divived in two main parts.

Toriyama's style still impress me to this day, and as a kid as spent a lot of time analysing his style. The bodies aren't realistic, they're disproportionate and sometimes simplified to the extreme. This could be just mere awkwardness or clumsiness, but it's not. Everything is mastered and has a purpose.

He's trying to create an effect : either comical or dramatic. And the way he draws his backgrounds shows how much Toriyama is a master : The proportions and perspectives are on point and detailed. There is contrast between his characters and backgrounds that I really like but can't really master myself. Toriyama is a master of graphical effects.

I love how easily readable his panels are. He draws his panels a little more "dezoomed" than usual so more of the action could be seen. Those panels shows how much the direction, following the action, and the interaction with the background is mastered : Each character is at the right place, no contradictions. It's even more obvious in real actions sequences, where the fighting, the actions chain up with eachother perfectly and it's made all very clear for the reader to understand. I'm often told that mangas are sometimes hard to read.

But Toriyama's skill in dividing the action and making it easy to read is unmatched. And he uses this skill with a lot of different angles, like the high-angle shot which he's excellent at.
Otomo is an incredible master too. He pushed his esthetic sense in a completely personal direction. He takes care of every single detail, even if he knows the reader won't probably notice it. I love that with him. His works really left a impression on me, like Domu or Akira.

For me, the themes of his designs aren't obvious but are more commonly explored by his characters. Akira will never be surpassed as far as I'm concerned. Otomo was inspired by Moebius and as far as art goes, he's in a completely other league compared to me. I'm no match and this can't be debated. And I'm not even talking about his skill in panels creation, rythm and angles. The focus always changes and he can apply deformations to each of his angles with a insulting precision. His deformed angles, like in Fisheye are just perfect and they're aren't just gratuitous.

They exist to make the character express himself. It's like Otomo has a digital camera in his brain, it's very rare in mangas. He's the only one in japan, with Tayio Matsumoto, who can do this. It's not coincidence both were influenced by european comic books, and Moebius especially. Otomo is the first one who I really felt removed the barrier between mangas and cinema. Domu was like a reading a movie, and I never realized you could do that before reading it.

 

 

I : When it comes to the ending of a story such as Naruto, how do you decide to end it? 

 

Kishi : As far as I'm concerned, Naruto can't exist without Sasuke, his opposite. Like with complementary colors, they can't exist without each other. Naruto want to be acknowledged and Sasuke doesn't acknowledge anyone but himself. If they manage to sort out their problems, their bonds will likely come to a close and this story won't have any reason to continue. That was what I had in mind with Naruto handing back Sasuke's headband to him at the ending of the manga. 

 

 

 


Edited by LuckyChi7, 24 May 2018 - 10:20 PM.

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#2 James S Cassidy

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:40 PM

I : When it comes to the ending of a story such as Naruto, how do you decide to end it? 

 

Kishi : As far as I'm concerned, Naruto can't exist without Sasuke, his opposite. Like with complementary colors, they can't exist without each other. Naruto want to be acknowledged and Sasuke doesn't acknowledge anyone but himself. If they manage to sort out their problems, their bonds will likely come to a close and this story won't have any reason to continue. That was what I had in mind with Naruto handing back Sasuke's headband to him at the ending of the manga.

 

To me, this here proves that NH and SS was never the intention of his. His entire idea was based around Naruto and Sasuke. The true ending is when Naruto gave Sauske back his headband....that's it. No "NH was the intention and main point of the story." No "Hinata was always going to be the heroine." It was all about the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke.

Kishimoto didn't make NH and SS. In fact, he could not have cared less. All he cared about was Naruto and Sasuke.

Boom, NH is a product of his editors and SP


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#3 DrK

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 03:40 AM

Yeah, he does not want to talk about anything other than the SNS relationship, since that's the only thing he can really feel good about still. Probably when accepting this interview he made sure that they would only ask these boring ass questions.



#4 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 06:05 AM

To me, this here proves that NH and SS was never the intention of his. His entire idea was based around Naruto and Sasuke. The true ending is when Naruto gave Sauske back his headband....that's it. No "NH was the intention and main point of the story." No "Hinata was always going to be the heroine." It was all about the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke.

Kishimoto didn't make NH and SS. In fact, he could not have cared less. All he cared about was Naruto and Sasuke.

Boom, NH is a product of his editors and SP

Also notice in another answer he mentions "the main trio." Which is clearly team 7.

 

I : The world of Naruto is always attacked by various threats, first policics. But bit by bit, you reveal that the hatred the enemies feel is just a mask, a mask to hide childhood trauma, psyche wounds and personal scars that time changed into some crazy project.
 
Kishi : In the first chapters of Naruto, I already talk about power struggles, politics and the main projects of the Main Trio. 
 

 

Yeah, he does not want to talk about anything other than the SNS relationship, since that's the only thing he can really feel good about still. Probably when accepting this interview he made sure that they would only ask these boring ass questions.

True, but I believe Kishimoto is being completely honest in this interview, because it focused on Naruto. Barely any mention of the ending, more importantly no mentions of the pairings, or the sequel. This is just him talking about how he developed the story. So he doesn't need to lie about "how Hinata was the focus all along" or something like that because the romance isn't mentioned so he doesn't have to make lies like that as he does in other interviews.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 25 May 2018 - 07:14 AM.


#5 Yyubie

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 10:49 AM

Reading all those , i feel regret , i should never read this manga or watch the anime in the first place. It really is not my type of story , it's a story about relationship between 2 boy and how they bonded as time goes. No offense to anyone but i see it as a story of gay / bromance and i avoid that type / genre like a plague. I like the part when he talks about orphan though .... i saw a lot of my friends parents divorce and it really affect them. Other than that perhaps this is one of the reason my Japanese population is declining ... too much divorce.

 

Especially when i read this line "Naruto can't exist without Sasuke" , i was like .... eeeuuuhhhh gross!.

No wonder Sasuke get away with a lot of things and get rewarded instead , he glorified him more than even a god himself.


Edited by Yyubie, 25 May 2018 - 10:54 AM.

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#6 jak123

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 11:32 AM

I'm honestly surprised he's not against showing divorce.



#7 Phantom_999

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:17 PM

Hey I'm all up for NH and SS getting divorces just to see how salty the pro-enders will get  :lmao:  :th_yeah: the salt will be SO DELICIOUS it'd be addicting :yes: I wouln't even care about NaruSaku marrying after that. I just want EVERYONE to be as bitter about this farce as we are so this $#&! can finally DIE!!!!! :party:


Edited by Phantom_999, 25 May 2018 - 12:19 PM.

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#8 LuckyChi7

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:20 PM

 

 

I : In the end, Naruto & Sasuke are two faces of the same problem : They're orphans. But they cope in completely different ways.



To be frank, the reality is more complex. I feel closer to Sasuke as I would never be able to forget or forgive the one who murders my family. I can see myself in the way Sasuke reacts but reacting like him lead to an overwhelming amount of hatred and violence and to war. History repeats itself and the circle must be broken.

This manga talks a lot about not repeating the errors of the past. And to be completely honest, overcoming traumatic experiences like Naruto does seems a bit idealist and naive to me. Even though, this kind of utopic idealism has to be written and defended in Shounen mangas. Shounen mangas must carry hope,above all.

 

 

I always had my reservations about this particular section, but to hear it from Kishi's mouth does explain a lot of things with why things became the way they did for the Naruto series. Do I agree with it? Not exactly, but I do understand where he's coming from.  I will say that it does kinda surprise me that Kishi also sees Naruto as naive and an  idealist to him, and honestly speaking if he was that adamant about writing about Sasuke and solely  on Sasuke then that's what the focus should've been. Would it have worked? I've got no idea to be perfectly honest.   You would think though that Kishi would try to defend Naruto's reasoning, but I guess with how much time has passed since the ending he's just ready to move on, and give his own little reflection on the series as a whole based on that question alone. 


Edited by LuckyChi7, 25 May 2018 - 01:22 PM.

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#9 RulesofNature

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 04:44 PM

 

 

I always had my reservations about this particular section, but to hear it from Kishi's mouth does explain a lot of things with why things became the way they did for the Naruto series. Do I agree with it? Not exactly, but I do understand where he's coming from.  I will say that it does kinda surprise me that Kishi also sees Naruto as naive and an  idealist to him, and honestly speaking if he was that adamant about writing about Sasuke and solely  on Sasuke then that's what the focus should've been. Would it have worked? I've got no idea to be perfectly honest.   You would think though that Kishi would try to defend Naruto's reasoning, but I guess with how much time has passed since the ending he's just ready to move on, and give his own little reflection on the series as a whole based on that question alone. 

 

And yet I remember interviews where Kishi said Sasuke was wrong because of how his actions hurt people.

 

I'm really getting Mitsuo Fukuda vibes off of Kishi. If you go by the old interviews, Fukuda didn't care as much for whatever messages Gundam SEED had, just that it was cool and exciting. To paraphrase, SEED wasn't an anti-war discussion it was just anime. This attitude was what ultimately led to his characters being called out as self-righteous hypocrites in crossover games.

 

Kishi doesn't actually believe in what Naruto's selling, and did things because "it's shonen." That's why we see Naruto fail to change the ninja system yet the story acts like he did a great job, because it's shonen. Why Naruto can allow Orochimaru to run around, because he forgave him as a shonen protagonist. Why there is no real sense of justice, and how Naruto came to embody everything people dislike about about shonen shows. Why Boruto can follow his father into being a child soldier working tirelessly to support the village they call home, became shonen.

 

Congratu-kittening-lations you talentless hack. This attitude is what killed your series. More proof the editors were the ones creating your story, you just put it to paper for them. You gave Naruto a meaning you didn't even believe in, turning him into a dancing bear for those cashing in on him.


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#10 Phantom_999

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:55 PM

Yeah Naruto is suppose to send a hopeful and positive message? So is that why Nardo is a neglectful deadbeat that is never home for his kids and never makes love to his "gorgeous(?) wife" anymore, even though that is what ALL otakus and Hinata fappers wanted? Is that why Sasuke is still the immature and wangsty kitten he always was and avoids his family to the point that his daughter questions if she is actually a bastard child or whether her father's supposed wife is actually her biological mother, while said mother is not giving her daughter any direct answers to the latter's questions and is busy drooling over when her sexy, hadsome, emotionally dead husband(?) is coming home to bang her and kiss her anywhere on her body? Is that why Naruto was supposed to be the series' jesus figure that stops all global conflict that produces child soldiers and economically, socially and physically tears nations apart, but was character assassinated to be replaced by Nardo Scumzamaki that encourages and supports that world socially cutthroat military system from his cushy office job and only accomplishes in making KonohaYork city? :zaru: RIGHT, I MUST BE STUPID TO NOT SEE THE DEEP PHILOSOPHICAL MESSAGES THERE :lmao:


Edited by Phantom_999, 29 May 2018 - 08:42 PM.

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#11 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 09:59 PM

 

I always had my reservations about this particular section, but to hear it from Kishi's mouth does explain a lot of things with why things became the way they did for the Naruto series. Do I agree with it? Not exactly, but I do understand where he's coming from.  I will say that it does kinda surprise me that Kishi also sees Naruto as naive and an  idealist to him, and honestly speaking if he was that adamant about writing about Sasuke and solely  on Sasuke then that's what the focus should've been. Would it have worked? I've got no idea to be perfectly honest.   You would think though that Kishi would try to defend Naruto's reasoning, but I guess with how much time has passed since the ending he's just ready to move on, and give his own little reflection on the series as a whole based on that question alone. 

And yet I remember interviews where Kishi said Sasuke was wrong because of how his actions hurt people.

 

I'm really getting Mitsuo Fukuda vibes off of Kishi. If you go by the old interviews, Fukuda didn't care as much for whatever messages Gundam SEED had, just that it was cool and exciting. To paraphrase, SEED wasn't an anti-war discussion it was just anime. This attitude was what ultimately led to his characters being called out as self-righteous hypocrites in crossover games.

 

Kishi doesn't actually believe in what Naruto's selling, and did things because "it's shonen." That's why we see Naruto fail to change the ninja system yet the story acts like he did a great job, because it's shonen. Why Naruto can allow Orochimaru to run around, because he forgave him as a shonen protagonist. Why there is no real sense of justice, and how Naruto came to embody everything people dislike about about shonen shows. Why Boruto can follow his father into being a child soldier working tirelessly to support the village they call home, became shonen.

 

Congratu-kittening-lations you talentless hack. This attitude is what killed your series. More proof the editors were the ones creating your story, you just put it to paper for them. You gave Naruto a meaning you didn't even believe in, turning him into a dancing bear for those cashing in on him.

The interview goes on to show that he was more interested in explaining why the villains were committing their acts of evil then why the heroes were opposing them. This is what led to the problems with the ending. As I said before at best you could make the final battle be between deciding whether revolution or internal reform be used to fix the corrupt ninja system. However Kishimoto spent the entire battle explaining why Sasuke was doing it, and barely gave Naruto anything. So it made Sasuke argument more nuance and made people agree with it (especially after Boruto started,) while Naruto was just obsessed with his promise to return Sasuke to the village. Which even though he won is made pointless by the ending; since Sasuke leaves anyway.

 

Yes, it is important for the audience to understand why the antagonist of the story is committing their acts, but it also important far more more important in fact that the audience understand why the protagonist opposes the antagonist's act. Kishimoto failed so badly here that after a few years he believes the villain was completely right in the end.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 25 May 2018 - 10:37 PM.


#12 Yyubie

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 06:36 AM

@Bail

No wonder i always feels weird , because i feel closer to Sasuke than Naruto , i know more about Sasuke but didn't know anything about Naruto background. Sasuke get so much detailed explanation from his reasoning for revenge down to his family tree and origin of power , while the only thing we know about Naruto family is they are extinct because they specialize in sealing jutsu and they've been hunt because of it .... what a joke.

 

It is clear now that Sasuke is been draw/written after this orphan best friend of Kishi , that's why he wrote Sasuke character with so much love and passion.


Edited by Yyubie, 31 May 2018 - 12:00 AM.

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#13 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 08:01 AM

@Bail

No wonder i always feels weird, because i feel closer to Sasuke than Naruto, i know more about Sasuke but than Naruto. Sasuke get so much detailed explanation from his reasoning for revenge down to his family tree and origin of power , while the only thing we know about Naruto family is they are extinct because they specialize in sealing jutsu and they've been hunt because of it .... what a joke.

 

It is clear now that Sasuke is been draw/written after this orphan best friend of Kishi , that's why he wrote Sasuke character with so much love and passion.

I think it also the challenge of writing Sasuke compared to Naruto.

 

Naruto let us be honest, he is not a hard character to write, and any of us could've replace kishimoto in order to write him if the worst happened. He is a kind heart of his sleeve optimistic guy. Mind you a bit dumb, and bone headed. Who is willing to listen to both sides of the story, and willing to give a person a chance to reform and forgive them if they do. While kishimoto did give him reasons and motivations and did flesh him out a bit. Let's be honest, you can write him on autopilot after a certain point.

 

Sasuke. Why was he still an antagonist yet not a villain was something kishimoto had to deal with since killing Itachi. Like I said before after Itachi's death there is no reason for Sasuke to remain an antagonist to Naruto by refusing to return to the village. There is no reason why after killing Itachi he should not just go bad to the village, and face any punishment awaiting him for going AWOL. Kishimoto realized this. So, in come Obito telling Sasuke that his true enemy is the village. Making it impossible for Sasuke to return to the village. But now Kishimoto had to deal with keeping Sasuke antagonistic enough that Naruto had to stop him from destroying the village, but not evil enough that he couldn't be redeemed by Naruto. As you can tell by reading the manga kishimoto had difficulty with this throughout the rest of the manga.

 

Kishimoto is the type of writer that is good at introducing a character, and fleshing them out. But once he is done with them; they are stuck in the background, and will remain unimportant for the rest of the story. Only popping in every once and awhile cameos.

 

Think: Iruka after the first chapter. Hinata, Shino, and Ino after the chunin exam. Chouji, Neji, Lee, and Kiba after their battle with their respective sound five ninja. Anko after her encounter with Orochimaru. Yamato after he was done training with Naruto. Sai after the first mission. Tsunade after her battle with Orochimarru. Jiraiya after his battle with Pein. And so on.

 

Sasuke remained interesting to Kishi for the rest of the manga while Naruto was done by around the time he either met his father (his character doesn't really grow after this) or his mother (one of his last true significant character moments before for the end; that happened five years before the manga ended.) So that affected how they were written in the final battle with Sasuke explain the character development over the last 5 or more years and why he came to his decision. While Naruto is written on autopilot goes on about his promise, friendship, bonds, love, hope, ramen, yada yada yada.

 

Sakura for those that are wondering is an odd case is that because that she was based on his wife; he kept trying to do something with her but had no idea what to do with her, and ultimately gave up on her at chapter 692 when it probably was decided that the last would be canon.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 July 2018 - 03:24 AM.


#14 KClaws_2

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 09:02 AM

Had I known nothing about Naruto, I probably would have been impressed by what he said here and checked it out. 

 

Of course, having actually read the series and not mindlessly kissing his feet, this does bring to light a lot of problems he had (as if that Kobiyashi interview from long ago wasn't indication enough).

 

Looking at how Naruto and Sasuke are orphans and cope with it IS interesting, but he over-saturated Sasuke's situation and gave us almost nothing on Naruto. It's an interesting premise, but it doesn't work if we keep only seeing one side of the coin.

 

So, you too find Naruto's ideals as naive, yet you pushed them anyway? No wonder everything just seemed so ham-fisted in the end. You didn't do what your story demanded, you did what YOU THOUGHT the GENRE WANTED. You really should have put more thought on how Naruto was going to realistically achieve his ideals, or at least come to terms with fantasy vs reality!

 

Yes, it's important to give villains backstories, but you went WAY TOO FAR with them. We got entire episodes dedicated to their "backstories", and this in turn took us out of the main timeline! I think you're also confusing "depth" with "redeemability" (yeah, I know that's not a word). Just because you give an antagonist death or a reason to be the way he is DOES NOT allow you to give them a slap on the wrist. Orochimaru lost his parents? Boo-hoo. Still does not give him an excuse to kill his own countrymen and experiment on children. Sasuke suffered a terrible loss as a child? Yeah, we knew he was going to be redeemed in some way, but again, forgiveness DOES NOT equal no consequences for your actions. Obito lost the girl he loved? Sorry, but that doesn't erase the kitten things he did that I would have liked to believe Rin would have been ashamed of in her name.

 

Then the thing about the Past not being repeated. Now, I HONESTLY thought that was what you were going for since I began reading Naruto. But guess what? YOU DIDN'T. It seems people are STILL not at peace (though this seems to confirm that not even you believed Naruto could make a utopia). Orochimaru is still doing what he does. Was the mistake NOT ALLOWING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!? You try to end the Senju and Uchiha conflict...by taking the easy way out and have all of the Senju dead, instead relying on what is essentially a distant cousin to carry that problem for them. And where did Kawakii come from again?

 

And speaking of past mistakes...what does this mean for the pairings? We went over it several times here, so I'll try to be quick. You had Jiraiya and Tsunade; two characters based off their namesakes from a talltale who were a married couple, yet they had no such relationship here. You have Obito love Rin...didn't work out. Seeing these two, I was thinking you were portraying these as the relationships that should have been, but weren't. And Naruto and Sakura were going to be the ones to break that cycle. Since that didn't work out, does that mean the mistake was having feelings for the teammate? That's...morbid. Then does that mean that Minato and Kushina, had they lived, would have divorced because their relationship wouldn't have worked!? THIS is part of the reason so many people have critiqued how you handled the romance.

 

What's more, Forneverworld, one of your biggest fans I might add, when reviewing the final chapter, said "I see a lot of history repeating itself", so he apparently did not get that message from your work. In fact, most reviewers did not. 

 

I honestly feel bad for Kishi here. It seems he has an interest in exploring these topics and themes, but he IS too obedient to the whims of his editors and he puts too many ingredients in the pot to flesh them all out.



#15 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 07:36 PM

Had I known nothing about Naruto, I probably would have been impressed by what he said here and checked it out. 

 

Of course, having actually read the series and not mindlessly kissing his feet, this does bring to light a lot of problems he had (as if that Kobiyashi interview from long ago wasn't indication enough).

 

Looking at how Naruto and Sasuke are orphans and cope with it IS interesting, but he over-saturated Sasuke's situation and gave us almost nothing on Naruto. It's an interesting premise, but it doesn't work if we keep only seeing one side of the coin.

 

So, you too find Naruto's ideals as naive, yet you pushed them anyway? No wonder everything just seemed so ham-fisted in the end. You didn't do what your story demanded, you did what YOU THOUGHT the GENRE WANTED. You really should have put more thought on how Naruto was going to realistically achieve his ideals, or at least come to terms with fantasy vs reality!

 

Yes, it's important to give villains backstories, but you went WAY TOO FAR with them. We got entire episodes dedicated to their "backstories", and this in turn took us out of the main timeline! I think you're also confusing "depth" with "redeemability" (yeah, I know that's not a word). Just because you give an antagonist death or a reason to be the way he is DOES NOT allow you to give them a slap on the wrist. Orochimaru lost his parents? Boo-hoo. Still does not give him an excuse to kill his own countrymen and experiment on children. Sasuke suffered a terrible loss as a child? Yeah, we knew he was going to be redeemed in some way, but again, forgiveness DOES NOT equal no consequences for your actions. Obito lost the girl he loved? Sorry, but that doesn't erase the kitten things he did that I would have liked to believe Rin would have been ashamed of in her name.

 

Then the thing about the Past not being repeated. Now, I HONESTLY thought that was what you were going for since I began reading Naruto. But guess what? YOU DIDN'T. It seems people are STILL not at peace (though this seems to confirm that not even you believed Naruto could make a utopia). Orochimaru is still doing what he does. Was the mistake NOT ALLOWING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!? You try to end the Senju and Uchiha conflict...by taking the easy way out and have all of the Senju dead, instead relying on what is essentially a distant cousin to carry that problem for them. And where did Kawakii come from again?

 

And speaking of past mistakes...what does this mean for the pairings? We went over it several times here, so I'll try to be quick. You had Jiraiya and Tsunade; two characters based off their namesakes from a talltale who were a married couple, yet they had no such relationship here. You have Obito love Rin...didn't work out. Seeing these two, I was thinking you were portraying these as the relationships that should have been, but weren't. And Naruto and Sakura were going to be the ones to break that cycle. Since that didn't work out, does that mean the mistake was having feelings for the teammate? That's...morbid. Then does that mean that Minato and Kushina, had they lived, would have divorced because their relationship wouldn't have worked!? THIS is part of the reason so many people have critiqued how you handled the romance.

 

What's more, Forneverworld, one of your biggest fans I might add, when reviewing the final chapter, said "I see a lot of history repeating itself", so he apparently did not get that message from your work. In fact, most reviewers did not. 

 

I honestly feel bad for Kishi here. It seems he has an interest in exploring these topics and themes, but he IS too obedient to the whims of his editors and he puts too many ingredients in the pot to flesh them all out.

Let's be honest, we all saw that the cycle would continue (both that like and people that hated the ending realized that; the people that liked it didn't mind because they got what they wanted) because the problems with the ninja system were not just the ongoing feud between two spiritual brothers that kishimoto was trying to sell by the end. But instead many conflicts that even if they may have started with a feud between brother centuries ago have long since branched out and found their own reason to continue. Even if the original sin of the ninja (a feud between two brothers) world was resolve the original sin of man was not.

 

Well the NS romance was part of proving that they would succeed where the past had failed; by having those two lived happy life together when all the previous couples were unable to. Which the editors didn't care about because they wanted nH, and Kishimoto willing if reluctantly abandon. So nH actually helped add to the feeling the cycle would continue, add in the clone that the anime made, and you get the feeling the cycle will continue even in the sequel. Actually, the Last really was about showing that Hinata was more important than fixing the world to the creative team.

 

Already talked enough myself about kishimoto's obsession with trying to justify his villains. The problem without the hero having a true message or idea to resolve the problems with the ninja system all the looking at the reasons they fell becomes pointless sophistry in the end. As much as kishimoto was interested in why they fell, he should have been interested even more in Naruto; who had all the reasons they had to fall but didn't. This would help both the story and the villains be even more interesting by having the hero be interesting.

 

As for Kishimoto sounding smart in the interview; that's because he has had years to come up with a justification for how he wrote Sasuke. Reading the actual manga and Sasuke honestly is so inconsistently written that he honestly comes off as insane; even by the final battle kishimoto is still trying to wrap his head around what he done with Sasuke since he killed Itachi, and try to come up with a reason for his past behavior while also giving him a reasonable goal.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 May 2018 - 09:09 PM.


#16 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 05:51 PM

I'm starting to miss his old interviews. Those were priceless, putting his foot in his mouth.

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#17 jak123

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 09:18 PM

I'm starting to miss his old interviews. Those were priceless, putting his foot in his mouth.

Has there ever been a point where he didn't contradict himself?



#18 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 11:57 PM

Has there ever been a point where he didn't contradict himself?

Probably before the ending.



#19 Phantom_999

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:11 AM

Oh even then. Remember for instance, how he said he would emphasize Sakura more as a heroine after that travesty he did with her during the Kage summit arc then he said he "forgot" later?


Edited by Phantom_999, 02 June 2018 - 02:11 AM.

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#20 Kasimir38

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 09:26 AM

"A little blond guy with a jumpsuit" had me ..., I just need a moment ... :sad:

 

I somehow feel so sorry for ranting over Kishi. I don't think he deserves the hate he receives, I think the real culprit's are the crazy fans and the editors. He just made up a story about two Ninja boys and look where it went...


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