1322 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Well obviously for us the only reason to read this is because it is NaruSaku. If it tried to fix the other plot points but was still NaruHina none of would bother.
It's been so many years since the ending and our fandom has dwindled so much because of said ending that I could care less if that's seen as hypocritical.

I agree there, Red!

[RedFaction]

Thanks I apperciate it. I guess I eventually just got tired of trying to justify why I didn't like the ending with other things besides the pairings.

Kishimoto and co made the pairings front and center for the ending and this movie that for me it will always be a main point of contention. Because Naruto's story had been bad for years leading up to this point that seeing NaruSaku become canon was a big reason for me to keep reading.

After the manga ended I haven't bought or read anything Naruto or Boruto canon related because I will never be able to get anything out of the series again.

[LuckyChi7]

Thanks I apperciate it. I guess I eventually just got tired of trying to justify why I didn't like the ending with other things besides the pairings.

Kishimoto and co made the pairings front and center for the ending and this movie that for me it will always be a main point of contention. Because Naruto's story had been bad for years leading up to this point that seeing NaruSaku become canon was a big reason for me to keep reading.

After the manga ended I haven't bought or read anything Naruto or Boruto canon related because I will never be able to get anything out of the series again.

 

 

It's very true,  and that is something I recognized almost towards the end of 2017 with how pointless some of these debates gets... It's like a never cycle of arguments that lead nowhere.... Not to reign on anyone's parade here, but I'm just speaking from my personal stance here. We all have our likings towards NaruSaku and Sakura in this series and no one is gonna take us away.

 

However, we often complain why Hinata gets so much more praise for doing absolutely nothing, and is just a betamale's insert of what they see in a girl.. Which okay in all honesty that one is annoying. 

 

I know the argument with a lot of these characters are "She's a side character" or "He's a side character" Why should they have precedent over the main characters and main story....? 

 

Look,  I'm not saying they should have precedent over the main  story, but at least give the side characters like moments of interactions with Naruto and Sakura because.... I hate to say this, but from a writing stand point I honestly can not buy how the bond the Konoha 11 have.... Like yeah they were classmates good for them, but the argument "They are side characters!"

 

You know what other series has side character and knows how to handle them better.... Fairy Tail, Tokyo Ghoul, Rave Master, Full Metal Alchemist, Yu Yu Hakusho,  Rurouni Kenshin, Berserk, Code Geass, etc... They don't overtake the main story, but at the very least each of the character have their own individual sub-arcs that contributes to the overall narrative. The side characters from those series I can understand and see why they have that connection to the main characters of their respective series, and sorry to say this... Naruto doesn't have that.  

 

 

Let's start with the most important question, what can be done to help make Hinata a good character?  and no... getting over Naruto is not a valid argument...  It would be like oh all Sakura needs to be a better character is her getting over Sasuke... Yes that's one aspect for sure, but there has to be more to consider....   You got to actually think about this one. 

 

 

Here's an example I can give for improving Sakura and Hinata as characters besides the whole  have them both get over their crushes: 

 

Sakura: 

 

-  Show her getting stronger 

 

-  Show how close her and Ino have gotten 

 

-  Training sessions with Tsunade

 

- Sparing sessions with Naruto 

 

- Maybe have Ino help Sakura out 

 

-  Showcase Sakura's love for children 

 

-  Establish in Part 2 that after learning about Naruto & Sasuke, she wants to help children and build a children's hospital in Konoha. 

 

 

Hinata: 

 

 - Inner turmoil about her role in the Hyuga Clan 

 

- Wants to settle some conflict with Hanabi 

 

-  establish a sisterhood wit her (think Elsa & Anna from Frozen only in reverse) 

 

- She seeks guidance from Neji on how to improve herself 

 

-  Showcase how close her and Neji have gotten post-chunin exams 

 

- Show that she wants to be a good role model as a kunoichi that inspires people

 

-  Her connection with Team Kurenai and how it could motivate her to wanting to lead her own team in the future!

 

 

 

 

I want to apologize if it sounded like I was on a rant, but it's just something I needed to get off my chest for a long time, but I hope you all get where I'm coming from on this! 

Edited by LuckyChi7, 02 February 2022 - 04:31 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Thanks I apperciate it. I guess I eventually just got tired of trying to justify why I didn't like the ending with other things besides the pairings.

Kishimoto and co made the pairings front and center for the ending and this movie that for me it will always be a main point of contention. Because Naruto's story had been bad for years leading up to this point that seeing NaruSaku become canon was a big reason for me to keep reading.

After the manga ended I haven't bought or read anything Naruto or Boruto canon related because I will never be able to get anything out of the series again.

To be fair, Naruto was going down hill or years. People put up with it until the ending because they cared about the characters. So I do find it completely fine to hate the ending because of the pairings because almost all the problems with the ending were caused by then changing the pairings at the last minute.

 

It's very true,  and that is something I recognized almost towards the end of 2017 with how pointless some of these debates gets... It's like a never cycle of arguments that lead nowhere.... Not to reign on anyone's parade here, but I'm just speaking from my personal stance here. We all have our likings towards NaruSaku and Sakura in this series and no one is gonna take us away.

 

However, we often complain why Hinata gets so much more praise for doing absolutely nothing, and is just a betamale's insert of what they see in a girl.. Which okay in all honesty that one is annoying. 

 

I know the argument with a lot of these characters are "She's a side character" or "He's a side character" Why should they have precedent over the main characters and main story....? 

 

Look,  I'm not saying they should have precedent over the main  story, but at least give the side characters like moments of interactions with Naruto and Sakura because.... I hate to say this, but from a writing stand point I honestly can not buy how the bond the Konoha 11 have.... Like yeah they were classmates good for them, but the argument "They are side characters!"

 

You know what other series has side character and knows how to handle them better.... Fairy Tail, Tokyo Ghoul, Rave Master, Full Metal Alchemist, Yu Yu Hakusho,  Rurouni Kenshin, Berserk, Code Geass, etc... They don't overtake the main story, but at the very least each of the character have their own individual sub-arcs that contributes to the overall narrative. The side characters from those series I can understand and see why they have that connection to the main characters of their respective series, and sorry to say this... Naruto doesn't have that.  

 

 

Let's start with the most important question, what can be done to help make Hinata a good character?  and no... getting over Naruto is not a valid argument...  It would be like oh all Sakura needs to be a better character is her getting over Sasuke... Yes that's one aspect for sure, but there has to be more to consider....   You got to actually think about this one. 

 

 

Here's an example I can give for improving Sakura and Hinata as characters besides the whole  have them both get over their crushes: 

 

Sakura: 

 

-  Show her getting stronger 

 

-  Show how close her and Ino have gotten 

 

-  Training sessions with Tsunade

 

- Sparing sessions with Naruto 

 

- Maybe have Ino help Sakura out 

 

-  Showcase Sakura's love for children 

 

-  Establish in Part 2 that after learning about Naruto & Sasuke, she wants to help children and build a children's hospital in Konoha. 

 

 

Hinata: 

 

 - Inner turmoil about her role in the Hyuga Clan 

 

- Wants to settle some conflict with Hanabi 

 

-  establish a sisterhood wit her (think Elsa & Anna from Frozen only in reverse) 

 

- She seeks guidance from Neji on how to improve herself 

 

-  Showcase how close her and Neji have gotten post-chunin exams 

 

- Show that she wants to be a good role model as a kunoichi that inspires people

 

-  Her connection with Team Kurenai and how it could motivate her to wanting to lead her own team in the future!

 

I want to apologize if it sounded like I was on a rant, but it's just something I needed to get off my chest for a long time, but I hope you all get where I'm coming from on this! 

Any debate on any topic will eventually be circular unless new perspective or new information is added into the discussion. It the main reason why I do want people to read Boruto. Most people here are stuck on the Last and why Hinata won; not helped that some refuse to watch it or read a summary so constantly ask the same questions about it.

 

The difference between Naruto and other mangas' side characters are there really isn't stories for side characters -unless kishimoto is interested in them-. Hell, there's rarely any down-time chapters for the main characters to explore them either. There a reason the Lee's chibi manga stands out so much its pretty much the only time we really focus & explore on the main cast during down time. This lack of exploration of the characters is why her fans were so obsessed with getting Naruto, 'beside the marry Neji to let him become clan head, which is more subtext coming from Japanese customs, what else does she have in the story other then obsessing over Naruto?' While not as bad, the same can be said about Sakura; if you don't catch that she was falling in love with Naruto over the course of part two.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 03 February 2022 - 06:22 AM.

[Phantom_999]

Thanks I apperciate it. I guess I eventually just got tired of trying to justify why I didn't like the ending with other things besides the pairings.

Kishimoto and co made the pairings front and center for the ending and this movie that for me it will always be a main point of contention. Because Naruto's story had been bad for years leading up to this point that seeing NaruSaku become canon was a big reason for me to keep reading.

After the manga ended I haven't bought or read anything Naruto or Boruto canon related because I will never be able to get anything out of the series again.

 

Well I'm going to be honest, I was a fan of the story first and foremost. That said, Naruto and Sakura's relation was PART of the story. their dynamic and growing friendship was a huge focus in the story and the moments they shared were romance hints you everywhere else in any other fictional work or franchise. To switch to Hinata as the love interest last second contradicts the story, and for the growing feelings between Naruto and Sakura to be called a red herring is infuriating not only because that is not what a red herring is, that is practically saying they lied to us and are calling any one that was not a NaruHina hierophant STUPID for reading the manga wrong. So sure, I was upset about the pairings but it had to do with that fact that I wasted my time on it only to be told we were falsely lead on, and some of Naruto X Hinata's fans are completely toxic and obnoxious, and those are the fans I can't stand and am also insulted that THEY WON so to speak. 

 

Back on topic,  does this doujin "fix the story"? No, because you can't fix the writing problems of what has already been established for years by (an) incompetent author(s) without completely rewriting those parts, if not the whole thing itself. But it is officiating Naruto and Sakura as a couple in a respectful and tasteful manner so we can appreciate that at the very least, can't we? 

Edited by Phantom_999, 06 February 2022 - 01:24 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Back on topic,  does this doujin "fix the story"? No, because you can't fix the writing problems of what has already been established for years by (an) incompetent author(s) without completely rewriting those parts, if not the whole thing itself. But it is officiating Naruto and Sakura as a couple in a respectful and tasteful manner so we can appreciate that at the very least, can't we? 

 

Exactly. Plus I'm sure we'll see some tweaks done to the aspects of the plot to The Last that will fix some things, but not all things, like you said, Phantom. But that's OK, as long as it actually pays respect to the story.

[James S Cassidy]

To be fair, Naruto was going down hill or years. People put up with it until the ending because they cared about the characters. So I do find it completely fine to hate the ending because of the pairings because almost all the problems with the ending were caused by then changing the pairings at the last minute.

 

Any debate on any topic will eventually be circular unless new perspective or new information is added into the discussion. It the main reason why I do want people to read Boruto. Most people here are stuck on the Last and why Hinata won; not helped that some refuse to watch it or read a summary so constantly ask the same questions about it.

You are right. People need to look at the series as a whole including Boruto, but this goes both way and at times I find myself going. "Why should I? You're not reading anything from the manga and you openly admit you never see the other stuff, but want to reference it because it "supports your choices."

It is extremely hypocritical to expect one person to "accept the canon" as it, but then turn around and ignore the same canon because "it doesn't support what I want."

As an NS and Naruto fan, I have accepted that this is the canon. We lost. I accept that, but accepting and being happy with it are two very different things. I find the proenders commit this hypocrisy more than we do. From the way they talk or how I talk to so many, they never saw Naruto the Last, they never actually read the manga, and trhey have no recollection of even the very scenes they are proud of.

Example: All NH fans remember the confession in the Pain Arc, but if you say that Hinata admitted she was being selfish in that scene, they refuse to say she said that. Even if you show the very panel she said it. "I am just being selfish." First, they will deny, then they make excuses like "it is a translation error" or "she didn't mean it like that."

This is why I stopped arguing points over and over again...why I stop for the most part of just trying to argue. They don't want to accept it. They don't want to accept that Hinata calls herself selfish...they don't want to accept that Sasuke said he had no reason to love Sakura. They don't want to accept anything that makes THEIR favorites look bad while telling us we have to accept Sakura being abusive even though it was played for comedy. 

To me, before they can judge us, they better make sure their skeletons of clean bone white.
 

[Bail o' Lies]

You are right. People need to look at the series as a whole including Boruto, but this goes both way and at times I find myself going. "Why should I? You're not reading anything from the manga and you openly admit you never see the other stuff, but want to reference it because it "supports your choices."

It is extremely hypocritical to expect one person to "accept the canon" as it, but then turn around and ignore the same canon because "it doesn't support what I want."

As an NS and Naruto fan, I have accepted that this is the canon. We lost. I accept that, but accepting and being happy with it are two very different things. I find the proenders commit this hypocrisy more than we do. From the way they talk or how I talk to so many, they never saw Naruto the Last, they never actually read the manga, and trhey have no recollection of even the very scenes they are proud of.

Example: All NH fans remember the confession in the Pain Arc, but if you say that Hinata admitted she was being selfish in that scene, they refuse to say she said that. Even if you show the very panel she said it. "I am just being selfish." First, they will deny, then they make excuses like "it is a translation error" or "she didn't mean it like that."

This is why I stopped arguing points over and over again...why I stop for the most part of just trying to argue. They don't want to accept it. They don't want to accept that Hinata calls herself selfish...they don't want to accept that Sasuke said he had no reason to love Sakura. They don't want to accept anything that makes THEIR favorites look bad while telling us we have to accept Sakura being abusive even though it was played for comedy. 

To me, before they can judge us, they better make sure their skeletons of clean bone white.

My stance is, "people are stuck on the last and they need to move on." They don't have to like it people still complain about the prequels, but for the last. What is there to talk about that hasn't been talked about?...It would help if some actually watch it to get clear information.

 

I want people to read Boruto so they go, "this is the sequel?!" Reading it helped me move on from Naruto, because its that bad...also I want other people to criticize it. Its frustrating talking into a void.

 

The story is what they want it to be they don't care. nH is a last minute pairing that the writer had made clear he didn't get the appeal of, but they are convince it was the entire story all along. They feel that is the case and they will twist anything to make it so. Logic doesn't work on them because you are going against what they feel, which makes you a monster to them. They very stupid people that don't read or think and simply react based on emotion.

[TheFirstEvil100]

We have a new page guys and girls.

 

[BlueStarSaber]

Stone vs leaf don't recall that being in the movie

[sushi.]

the last few pages have been so uneventful, just hinata opening a door or sth. so this is fresh

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

the last few pages have been so uneventful, just hinata opening a door or sth. so this is fresh

It is, plus Tokai's own spin on the Otsutsuki Clay's motivations.

[TheFirstEvil100]

Okay, boys and girls, we have a new page.

 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Okay, boys and girls, we have a new page.
 

Sounds creepy AF! But Toneri shows it too with his calm attitude to what he plans to do to the world.

[Bail o' Lies]

Remember, a lot of this is just copying the movie scene for scene with some changes every once and awhile. if you watch the movie this shouldn't be new. 

[Chatte]

Yeah for me atm everything is nothing out of the ordinary... I'm just curious to see the original parts. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yeah for me atm everything is nothing out of the ordinary... I'm just curious to see the original parts.

Me too.

[Derock]

I'm surprised no one posted the new page:

 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I'm surprised no one posted the new page:

 

Nice. 

[TheFirstEvil100]

Lol I forgot since Im helping my sister move.