31579 replies to this topic

[sushi.]

I think he means when Sai quickly agreed with Naruto on why Sakura was going to kill Sasuke and feeling she was doing it out of love for him.

I remember tweeting about that. Because Sai has never met Sasuke - Sakura has never spoken of him. There's no way he could know if she loved him, other than being told. I won't deny anything but his intuition isn't reliable, he's guessing.

 

Ofc Kish could be speaking through Sai, he's done that several times with several characters. Most of them have witnessed and concluded themselves tho, not been told the truth.

Edited by sushi., 10 February 2022 - 01:05 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I see so much art for Sakura and Sakura with Sasuke now.... It's crazy. The SS shippers were non-existent by the end of the original manga. (And actually I think the ones now aren't the old SS shippers but brand new ones.) But I always just wonder when I see SS art.... I'm like, Have you actually read the original manga? Like from the beginning....? lol 

 

Sasuke's not nice to Sakura. Not ever. I mean sure he saves her a couple times...but he also tries to KILL HER a couple times!!!!!!

 

Those are are probably shojo manga fans that like the good girl/bad boy pairing. BUT. Sasuke is not a typical shojo bad boy, he goes above and beyond that to the point where any relationship between them is not sensible or believable. Up until 693 I saw no positive interactions between them. Even in the early stages where things were marginally better, Sasuke dismisses Sakura's feelings at best, and becomes emotionally abusive of her at worst, kicking down her self worth really. I never saw a reltionship between them as a good thing back then and I still don't see it now. In the future who knows? Maybe they'll 180 turn his character too and make him affectionate, but I doubt it, and nothing will erase what I know of the series despite my indifference to it now

Edited by Phantom_999, 10 February 2022 - 02:25 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

I remember tweeting about that. Because Sai has never met Sasuke - Sakura has never spoken of him. There's no way he could know if she loved him, other than being told. I won't deny anything but his intuition isn't reliable, he's guessing.

 

Ofc Kish could be speaking through Sai, he's done that several times with several characters. Most of them have witnessed and concluded themselves tho, not been told the truth.

That's wrong. Sai met Sasuke on the first mission they went on. Its the first scene at the start of shippuden anime where Sasuke blew up his bedroom. In fact, that whole arc build up was Sakura and Naruto telling Sai how much they care about Sasuke. This led to Sai being interested in bonds. Seeing at how Naruto and Sakura interact and trying to push them together once he realized; they had feeling for each other and knew that Sasuke was acting as a blocker for that development of his two friends happiness.

 

Those are are probably shojo manga fans that like the good girl/bad boy pairing. BUT. Sasuke is not a typical shojo bad boy, he goes above and beyond that to the point where any relationship between them is not sensible or believable. Up until 693 I saw no positive interactions between them. Even in the early stages where things were marginally better, Sasuke dismisses Sakura's feelings at best, and becomes emotionally abusive of her at worst, kicking down her self worth really. I never saw a relationship between them as a good thing back then and I still don't see it now. In the future who knows? Maybe they'll 180 turn his character too and make him affectionate, but I doubt it, and nothing will erase what I know of the series despite my indifference to it now

In shoujo the bad boy likes the airheaded heroine early on due to her quirkiness. The rest of the story is the bad boy being charmed by her antics while the airhead denies he likes her. Eventually, she realizes he does after everyone one else knew for arcs by that point.

 

Sasuke never had positive feeling for Sakura above tolerating her as a teammate, and that ended with their last scene together in part one. In part two, anytime Sasuke met Sakura he tried to kill her with no hesitation as he saw as an annoyance to remove; unlike Naruto. In 693, he literally showed a vision of him killing her to shut her up before telling Kakashi that he doesn't get why Sakura likes him and she must just be living in some dream world. Then 699, suddenly in love with her because they have to put the former heroine with someone and SS has fans.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 10 February 2022 - 08:33 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yep - I stand by "The True End" chapter being the pairings that Kishi wanted to end with. Sasuke and Karin, Naruto and Sakura. And Sarada could totally have been Karin's daughter and it wouldn't have changed a thing about Boruto. 

 

Agreed. I even think Hima was only made when the couplings got changed just to try to make a "new" Hinata instead and trying to make it seem like Kishimoto had "intended" for things to be as much of a fustercluck as they were in the end! And how even some of his true feelings were shown in the Naruto Gaiden with what he set up, ins pite of the obvious lies he also had put in just to justify what he did and not anger the SS fandom over the stupidest crap. XP

[tricksie]

Yep, yep, yep.

 

I like the Sasuke I write in my fics. Complicated, but not cruel. At least not to Sakura. And even his bad traits aren't so bad that you hate him - he has redeemable qualities. 

 

But in the manga, he's more like Itachi. Cold and cruel to everyone. Even Naruto, but especially to Sakura. There is no one Sasuke bonded to, no one he trusted, no one who was his friend. 

 

Shippers who see something in him are pulling from their own image of him. Which is totally fine. But the black-and-white facts of him in the manga prove just how bad he is. 

 

This applies to Naruto as well!! There is nothing in their relationship that gives Naruto a reason to act the way he does toward Sasuke. Sasuke was just a little less-of-an-asshole to him when they were kids, and now Naruto is obsessed with saving him for the rest of their lives. Naruto, like the Sasuke shippers, sees something in him that was never there to begin with. A version of Sasuke that was never there to begin with.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Yep, yep, yep.

 

I like the Sasuke I write in my fics. Complicated, but not cruel. At least not to Sakura. And even his bad traits aren't so bad that you hate him - he has redeemable qualities. 

 

But in the manga, he's more like Itachi. Cold and cruel to everyone. Even Naruto, but especially to Sakura. There is no one Sasuke bonded to, no one he trusted, no one who was his friend. 

 

Shippers who see something in him are pulling from their own image of him. Which is totally fine. But the black-and-white facts of him in the manga prove just how bad he is. 

 

This applies to Naruto as well!! There is nothing in their relationship that gives Naruto a reason to act the way he does toward Sasuke. Sasuke was just a little less-of-an-kitten to him when they were kids, and now Naruto is obsessed with saving him for the rest of their lives. Naruto, like the Sasuke shippers, sees something in him that was never there to begin with. A version of Sasuke that was never there to begin with.

 

Way I saw it, Naruto just didn't want to see Sasuke suffer since he himself is a very empathic person, and which is something I show in my fanfic from what I've done so far, since even if he kept his promise to stop Sasuke from going to Orochimaru... he still feels he hasn't been able to "save" him. It isn't just about seeing something that was never there, it is seeing that Sasuke is a valued teammate and that even if he could deny it, he DID like his time in Team Kakashi.

 

Heck, for how I did Sasuke with him in TDW initially, he's cruel and malicious because he's angry, angry he was denied the means to get power to kill Itachi, since I wrote his motivations simply, even if not fully shown to anyone but can be obviously hinted, that he just wants to kill Itachi not really fully for revenge, but motivations of jealousy towards Itachi, given what the series has said about how Sasuke OBVIOUSLY was always jealous of Itachi, due to the praise he kept getting from their father (even if Fugaku only did it because he wanted to have Itachi's power for the Uchihas' coup), and how others kept comparing him to Itachi and how that developed a superiority-inferiority complex, especially after the massacre and how everyone basically kissed Sasuke's ass, even when he was a total asshat to people, just because he was good and because he was the last known Uchiha.

 

I also focus his character being that once he lets go of that anger, that ego, that inability to deal with someone stronger than him... he'd be trying to become a better person, finding his way to "the dawn", and to be able to find the truth of what Itachi did, especially when there's a lot more I want to do regarding that, especially around the Uchiha massacre and how to connect it to Madara Uchiha himself, since he would be the principal villain of my fanfic.

[sushi.]

That's wrong. Sai met Sasuke on the first mission they went on. Its the first scene at the start of shippuden anime where Sasuke blew up his bedroom. In fact, that whole arc build up was Sakura and Naruto telling Sai how much they care about Sasuke. This led to Sai being interested in bonds. Seeing at how Naruto and Sakura interact and trying to push them together once he realized; they had feeling for each other and knew that Sasuke was acting as a blocker for that development of his two friends happiness.

You're right, he met him once. What I'm trying to say is he doesn't know him, or the details of his relationship with Naruto and Sakura. He wouldn't have known whether she truly loved him romantically, only that they both loved him as a comrade. But I'm speaking of romantic feelings here.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

You're right, he met him once. What I'm trying to say is he doesn't know him, or the details of his relationship with Naruto and Sakura. He wouldn't have known whether she truly loved him romantically, only that they both loved him as a comrade. But I'm speaking of romantic feelings here.

True, maybe we're overthinking it because of how Sai's actions come off when he reveals what Sakura plans to do. And how they feel like they contradict what he said when telling Sakura Naruto loves her.

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 11 February 2022 - 04:15 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

True, maybe we're overthinking it because of how Sai's actions come off when he reveals what Sakura plans to do. And how they feel like they contradict what he said when telling Sakura Naruto loves her.

*Sai says Naruto loves Sakura*

Proenders: Sai doesn't know what he is talking about. He can barely understand basic human connection.

*Sai says Sakura love Sasuke*

Proenders: "Who better to know how people feel than Sai? He is totally right."

[Phantom_999]

OR

 

"Everyone says Naruto loves Sakura"

 

NH and SS fans: they don't know what they're talking about

 

"Kiba tells Naruto, don't try to act cool because Hinata is here"

 

NH fans: SEE? Even Kiba sees it!!!!!!

 

but seriously I didn't pay attention to what Sai said back then and I don't think much of it now. the only thing that irritated me was how the story could call Sakura's feelings love at this point when thinking about Sasuke as he is currently only makes her burst into tears. In my opinion the whole charade was just to pull  us gullible dumb@$$es around with these "love triangles", quote unquote. And remember, ALL NON NARUHINA SHIPPERS READ THE EFFING MANGA WRONG, remember ?

Edited by Phantom_999, 13 February 2022 - 04:42 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

OR

 

"Everyone says Naruto loves Sakura"

 

NH and SS fans: they don't know what they're talking about

 

"Kiba tells Naruto, don't try to act cool because Hinata is here"

 

NH fans: SEE? Even Kiba sees it!!!!!!

 

but seriously I didn't pay attention to what Sai said back then and I don't think much of it now. the only thing that irritated me was how the story could call Sakura's feelings love at this point when thinking about Sasuke as he is currently only makes her burst into tears. In my opinion the whole charade was just to pull  us gullible dumb@$$es around with these "love triangles", quote unquote. And remember, ALL NON NARUHINA SHIPPERS READ THE EFFING MANGA WRONG, remember ?

Right, but it leads me to question over and over...What...was....the...point?

Why have Sai say anything at all if it lead to essentially nothing? 

And yet noone wants to ask Kishi..."Don't you think it is cruel and irresponsible to lie and manipulate fans to believe something was possible only to say it was never a possibility in the first place? Aren't you just wasting everyone's times and panel space to make these scenes to where their only purpose was to trick a large section of the fandom ? Even if it really wasn't your idea, why go along with it? Sure, it might seem like a pay off in the short run, but now your reputation as a writer is tarnish by the fact that we can never tell if something is important or just a misdirection to insult your readership."

We want to believe true love exists, but here stories are now teaching us that love doesn't really exists and that people are just gonna use you as a resource of...whatever it is.

It seems like Sasuke only got with Sakura and gave her a kid, NOT because he actually wanted to settle down, but because he wanted to be left alone and essentially gave Sakura an anchor to distract her. "She is too busy with the kid....great, then she can leave me alone."

And then we have fans that want to lie to me and say "Sasuke desperately wants to be home, but can't because everything is keeping him from it."

Edited by James S Cassidy, 13 February 2022 - 08:20 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

We want to believe true love exists, but here stories are now teaching us that love doesn't really exists and that people are just gonna use you as a resource of...whatever it is.
It seems like Sasuke only got with Sakura and gave her a kid, NOT because he actually wanted to settle down, but because he wanted to be left alone and essentially gave Sakura an anchor to distract her. "She is too busy with the kid....great, then she can leave me alone."
And then we have fans that want to lie to me and say "Sasuke desperately wants to be home, but can't because everything is keeping him from it."

Not to mention those same people on the other side of things do that too with NH and make excuses for Naruto basically avoid his family too, when Hiruzen, even as a widower and the rough patches in his relationship with Asuma as well as Konohamaru to an extent, still made efforts to connect with them, while I see Naruto using work as an excuse because of how thi gx are with Hinata as well as his kids, contrary to what we're supposed to believe.

And we also te d to get too many stories try to push a thing with sexual preferences rather than m developing meaningful relationships because someone out there wants to push their agenda or to win brownie points with some group. Even old stuff from before our time can tell better, meaningful romances, like Disney's Cinderella, and how Cinderella fell for Prince Charming without knowing WHO he was at the ball before midnight came along, and how that played out to his finding her again.

People keep saying they want good stories in media, but sometimes when crap like this happens, and some people just expect others to be forcibly happy about it even when it sucks and yet we still try to accept but ignore it, it's kinda hard to believe that fact.

[Derock]

Not to mention those same people on the other side of things do that too with NH and make excuses for Naruto basically avoid his family too, when Hiruzen, even as a widower and the rough patches in his relationship with Asuma as well as Konohamaru to an extent, still made efforts to connect with them, while I see Naruto using work as an excuse because of how thi gx are with Hinata as well as his kids, contrary to what we're supposed to believe.

And we also te d to get too many stories try to push a thing with sexual preferences rather than m developing meaningful relationships because someone out there wants to push their agenda or to win brownie points with some group. Even old stuff from before our time can tell better, meaningful romances, like Disney's Cinderella, and how Cinderella fell for Prince Charming without knowing WHO he was at the ball before midnight came along, and how that played out to his finding her again.

People keep saying they want good stories in media, but sometimes when crap like this happens, and some people just expect others to be forcibly happy about it even when it sucks and yet we still try to accept but ignore it, it's kinda hard to believe that fact.

 

It's interesting you had mentioned old-school Disney classics like Cinderella, Byron. 

 

Many have to understand that those are based on fairy tales books in which Walt acquired for his kids back in the day and transformed them into timeless animated classics. But we can't go into detail with them because they were basically children books (I'll take that back,  because not ALL were for children because some were inspired from Grimm Brothers' versions and let's not go to the original Little Mermaid storyline). Maybe using spin-offs and other materials such as live-action version of Cinderella (the one with Cate Blanchet played the stepmother) is better because we actually see the development of Kit (Charming) and Ella's (Cinderella) relationship in the movie.

 

It was the reason why I didn't enjoyed the Disney classics because they were just Walt's interpretations of the fairy tales. Snow White was VERY boring and rushed, in both movie and shipping.  Cinderella didn't do much beside wanting her wish come true (getting out of Lady Tremaine and her daughters' abuse and having a better life, though later materials redeemed Anastasia's character). Sleeping Beauty, despites its efforts, didn't do much (Aurora was panned by critics for her heroine status).  You can see why the Disney Renaissance (Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, etc.) worked much better in the romance and character development, for kids' point of view, NOT for adults. I still don't understand the reason of Belle's case when people went into detail of her development and relationship and resulted in Stockholm Syndrome.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

It's interesting you had mentioned old-school Disney classics like Cinderella, Byron. 

 

Many have to understand that those are based on fairy tales books in which Walt acquired for his kids back in the day and transformed them into timeless animated classics. But we can't go into detail with them because they are basically children books (I'll take that back,  because not ALL were for children because some were inspired from Grimm Brothers' versions and let's not go to the original Little Mermaid storyline). Maybe using spin-offs and other materials such as live-action version of Cinderella (the one with Cate Blanchet played the stepmother) is better because we actually see the development of Kit (Charming) and Ella's (Cinderella) relationship in the movie.

 

It was the reason why I didn't enjoyed the Disney classics because they were just Walt's interpretations of the fairy tales. Snow White was VERY boring and rushed, in both movie and shipping.  Cinderella didn't do much beside wanting her wish come true (getting out of Lady Tremaine and her daughters' abuse and having a better life, though later materials redeemed Anastasia's character). Sleeping Beauty, despites its efforts, didn't do much (Aurora was panned by critics for her heroine status).  You can see why the Disney Renaissance (Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, etc.) worked much better in the romance and character development, for kids' point of view, NOT for adults. I still don't understand the reason of Belle's case when people went into detail of her development and relationship and resulted in Stockholm Syndrome.

 

I know what you mean, Derock. Honestly with Beauty and the Beast, I never FREAKIN' understood why people nowadays who are adults like many of us here are would think that Belle had Stockholm Syndrome. In both versions of Disney's spin of it, she wasn't like that at all. She just wanted to save her father Maurice, and even as Adam, when he was the Beast, tried to scare her just because he was so used to being alone because of the curse on him, she didn't show any fear. She got to see the real goodness in his heart over time, which is why too, with his feelings, he allowed her to go home when he revealed Maurice was really sick, even if he knew he may remain cursed forever. But the fact Belle came back to help him when Gaston wanted to kill Adam says a lot too.

[Derock]

 

I know what you mean, Derock. Honestly with Beauty and the Beast, I never FREAKIN' understood why people nowadays who are adults like many of us here are would think that Belle had Stockholm Syndrome. In both versions of Disney's spin of it, she wasn't like that at all. She just wanted to save her father Maurice, and even as Adam, when he was the Beast, tried to scare her just because he was so used to being alone because of the curse on him, she didn't show any fear. She got to see the real goodness in his heart over time, which is why too, with his feelings, he allowed her to go home when he revealed Maurice was really sick, even if he knew he may remain cursed forever. But the fact Belle came back to help him when Gaston wanted to kill Adam says a lot too.

 

EXACTLY!

 

People ignored the obvious on what was going on in Beauty and the Beast. She gotten her adventure (hell, she lampshade it during her song when talking to the sheep about her favorite book). Initially, she did not want to pull up with Beast/Adam because how cruel he treated her when they first met when trying to save Maurice. It took her curiosity to be the blame when she saw and touch the magical rose that Beast screamed at her because she went to the West Wing as he explicitly said "It's forbidden", when she asked him about the area. She left the castle, scared because how he roared at her and was then ambushed by the wolves in the blizzard,  and when Beast realized his mistake, he went out and rescued her. And don't forget about the aftermath, how the two bickered back and forth like they were a married couple!    (The two are still one of my favorite Disney couples, it's one of the reason why Beauty and the Beast is #2 of my favorite Disney movies. Try to guess who's #1?)

 

While the scenes of their romance was rushed because 1) it was about a 90-minute movie (not to mention behind-the-scenes of time crunching and Howard Ashman's AIDS complications leading to his death), we can't determine how long Belle stayed, however because with the spin-offs, it sounded like she stayed in the castle more than a couple of months and 2) it was a goddamn kids movie. As I said before, we can't go too deep into it. 

 

We saw Beast/Adam's development. But I couldn't understand the Stockholm Syndrome BS. I think people were favoring her for Gaston, despite his villain role. 

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

EXACTLY!

 

People ignored the obvious on what was going on in Beauty and the Beast. She gotten her adventure (hell, she lampshade it during her song when talking to the sheep about her favorite book). Initially, she did not want to pull up with Beast/Adam because how cruel he treated her when they first met when trying to save Maurice. It took her curiosity to be the blame when she saw and touch the magical rose that Beast screamed at her because she went to the West Wing as he explicitly said "It's forbidden", when she asked him about the area. She left the castle, scared because how he roared at her and was then ambushed by the wolves in the blizzard,  and when Beast realized his mistake, he went out and rescued her. And don't forget about the aftermath, how the two bickered back and forth like they were a married couple!    (The two are still one of my favorite Disney couples, it's one of the reason why Beauty and the Beast is #2 of my favorite Disney movies. Try to guess who's #1?)

 

While the scenes of their romance was rushed because 1) it was about a 90-minute movie (not to mention behind-the-scenes of time crunching and Howard Ashman's AIDS complications leading to his death), we can't determine how long Belle stayed, however because with the spin-offs, it sounded like she stayed in the castle more than a couple of months and 2) it was a goddamn kids movie. As I said before, we can't go too deep into it. 

 

We saw Beast/Adam's development. But I couldn't not understand the Stockholm Syndrome BS. I think people were favoring her for Gaston, despite his villain role. 

 

I just don't get it either, and I always felt too how Adam/Beast and Belle were, they got to be like many couples can tend to be, being able to bicker yet still caring for each other.

[Luna]

I'm sorry to say but the stockholm syndrome bs is due to this WOKE ERA  and applying nonsense to things that shouldn't have them. Beauty and the Beast is so straight forward that its insane to think that Belle have stockholm syndrome lmao.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I'm sorry to say but the stockholm syndrome bs is due to this WOKE ERA  and applying nonsense to things that shouldn't have them. Beauty and the Beast is so straight forward that its insane to think that Belle have stockholm syndrome lmao.

 

Nothing wrong with being progressive, but some people take it too far, which is why the term "woke" can be seen as bad juju. And that's true about Beauty and the Beast, especially when the movie TELLS US Belle is initially with Adam/the Beast because of wanting to save her father from him.

[Dalton.T.R]

I honestly think social media is to blame for a LOT of the world's problems we have now. We have too many people fixcated on becoming famous and thinking they're entitled to just have that life-style handed to them. People seem to have gotten it into their heads that if you don't make 100K a year, you're a loser, while the real world isn't so black and white. We need blue collar jobs that the school systems frown upon for whatever reason. We need welders, plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, mechanics, garbage men, and sanitation workers. These are the people that make the world work and function the way it does. Without these people doing the work they do, we couldn't live in the comforts we take for granted. 

 

Too many people have become too obsessed with holding a camera in front of their faces and saying "look at me! I wanna be famous too!" Hard work and dedication may get you there in time, but it's not going to be something that happens overnight for most people. I personally think that if people were to drop Facebook, Twitter, and whatever else they use, the world would start calming down. I personally haven't used any form of social media outside of YouTube for a long time now, and l have no desire to go back. Good riddance. It's just poison for your brain at this point. 

[VanitasDS76491]

Anyone having issues on fanfic cause my dm isn't working