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#21 RulesofNature

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 12:41 AM

Isn't it strange that all those Pro - Enders make so much, (awful) fanart showing ideal family scenarios of SasuSaku, NaruHina? I mean, if they have a perfect family and life and everything was foreshadowed, why making SO MANY fanarts about it over and over and over....Fanart is usually, idk, used to show things that aren't canon (yet) or scenarios the creator hasn't shown, so...isn't it irony that they feel the need of shoving that NH and SasuSaku stuff into everyones faces, - lobbyism at it's finest. :th_yeah:

 

And I'm like, why is everyone so determined to show that Naruto and Hinata and Sakura and Sasuke are happy in their marriage? I mean, fanart Sasuke is the best father ever, fanart Hinata is pretty and fanart Sakura kind of, doesn't care for Naruto, because everywhere it's shown that she only calms down when Sasuke interferes or she even beats up Naruto sometimes. Like, wat? And what's the answer? - Only because it wasnt shown in the manga doesn't mean it didn't happen. Talking about twisting the story and hypocrites. I bet everyone that supports the ending actually thinks ^ that line, because "Just because Hinata didn't talk with Naruto it doesn't mean she never did." -WELL YEAH THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS

 

It's simple. They got the pairings they wanted, but not the relationships. NaruHina and SasuSaku both have noticeable dysfunction and it's not even under the surface. It's pretty obvious to most people that neither are healthy relationships for a variety of reasons. As much as their fans and Studio Pierrot want to say they are great couples, the fact is they come across as non-sensical. It's not even the fans who are backtracking here, Pierrot has tried to walk back a lot of complaints about Naruto and Hinata as parents, no, as people and it's been called out by those upset with what they've done.

 

I mean, they tried to give Hinata Sakura-like characteristics despite how "demonized" Sakura was within the fanbase because a NaruSaku relationship feels a lot more natural. They've tried to fix Naruto being a bad father in the Boruto movie, but that's going to create problems leading up to the events of the film. For spit's sake, Pierrot has even tried to bait fans with "BorutoxSarada is just like NarutoxSakura" despite the pairings they went with. It's pathetic.


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#22 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:27 AM

 

It's simple. They got the pairings they wanted, but not the relationships. NaruHina and SasuSaku both have noticeable dysfunction and it's not even under the surface. It's pretty obvious to most people that neither are healthy relationships for a variety of reasons. As much as their fans and Studio Pierrot want to say they are great couples, the fact is they come across as non-sensical. It's not even the fans who are backtracking here, Pierrot has tried to walk back a lot of complaints about Naruto and Hinata as parents, no, as people and it's been called out by those upset with what they've done.

 

I mean, they tried to give Hinata Sakura-like characteristics despite how "demonized" Sakura was within the fanbase because a NaruSaku relationship feels a lot more natural. They've tried to fix Naruto being a bad father in the Boruto movie, but that's going to create problems leading up to the events of the film. For spit's sake, Pierrot has even tried to bait fans with "BorutoxSarada is just like NarutoxSakura" despite the pairings they went with. It's pathetic.

 

Another thing I see it as, Rules, is desperation. Studio Pierrot knows they screwed the pooch, which is why they are constantly trying to make sense of everything, they continue to make a mess out of this nonsense!

 

It fails to live up to what they thought they would get, because they failed to see what Kishimoto had been establishing was through hard work and sticking his guns to what he had dictated in the story. All Studio Pierrot and his editors wanted was to make more money, and assumed they'd do it in the West because of NaruHina being "popular" here because a lot of people failed to get what Sakura's tsundere nature was all about.



#23 Derock

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:41 AM

 

Another thing I see it as, Rules, is desperation. Studio Pierrot knows they screwed the pooch, which is why they are constantly trying to make sense of everything, they continue to make a mess out of this nonsense!

 

It fails to live up to what they thought they would get, because they failed to see what Kishimoto had been establishing was through hard work and sticking his guns to what he had dictated in the story. All Studio Pierrot and his editors wanted was to make more money, and assumed they'd do it in the West because of NaruHina being "popular" here because a lot of people failed to get what Sakura's tsundere nature was all about.

 

I don't know why and how fans "failed" to capture and see Sakura's tsundere traits because there were other tsundere-type characters around the era that many people had heard and/or seen: Chi-Chi, Bulma, and Videl from Dragon Ball, Kaoru from Rurouni Kenshin, Misty from Pokemon as examples. I think Sakura got the hate because of the design and drafts comments from Masashi back in the beginning and somehow it was used as "bible truths". Though then again, it possibly be selective reading or as people mentioned earlier, people watched the anime first which Pierrot not only overuse but oversaturated Sakura's traits.


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#24 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:49 AM

 

I don't know why and how fans "failed" to capture and see Sakura's tsundere traits because there were other tsundere-type characters around the era that many people had heard and/or seen: Chi-Chi, Bulma, and Videl from Dragon Ball, Kaoru from Rurouni Kenshin, Misty from Pokemon as examples. I think Sakura got the hate because of the design and drafts comments from Masashi back in the beginning and somehow it was used as "bible truths". Though then again, it possibly be selective reading or as people mentioned earlier, people watched the anime first which Pierrot not only overuse but oversaturated Sakura's traits.

 

No kidding, Derock, I wonder if that's what the case was for sure. At first, I wasn't sure what to think, but then I got into it more when I saw how she may have been as she was, but she really was growing to become a better person. Well, screw me for being stupid to think it'd stick!



#25 DrK

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:27 AM

 

No kidding, Derock, I wonder if that's what the case was for sure. At first, I wasn't sure what to think, but then I got into it more when I saw how she may have been as she was, but she really was growing to become a better person. Well, screw me for being stupid to think it'd stick!

She was. She actually became an amazing person and character. I sort of talked about this in my thread.

 

If Naruto ends shortly after the Pain arc, then Sakura is IMO more memorable and better than the characters Derock mentioned. And those are some fairly iconic characters that he mentioned. Her character arc if ended properly would have been so satisfying compared to any of them. It's really a massive disappointment. It's beyond pathetic. She could have been the best. Instead she literally tops a lot of worst female character lists. It's a total kittening disgrace. I don't know how Kishi can even live with himself. I wouldn't be able to.


Edited by DrK, 05 February 2018 - 02:35 AM.


#26 Derock

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:41 AM

She was. She actually became an amazing person and character. I sort of talked about this in my thread.

 

If Naruto ends shortly after the Pain arc, then Sakura is IMO more memorable and better than the characters Derock mentioned. And those are some fairly iconic characters that he mentioned. Her character arc if ended properly would have been so satisfying compared to any of them. It's really a massive disappointment. It's beyond pathetic. She could have been the best. Instead she literally tops a lot of worst female character lists. It's a total kittening disgrace. I don't know how Kishi can even live with himself. I wouldn't be able to.

 

I agreed. Sakura would've come out on top. If the series ended around the Pain arc, it would've give Masashi more time to relax and be with the family. Naruto, Sakura, and the rest would've been spared and in tacted. The franchise can continue as Rock Lee's spin-off was coming out at the time frame. If that was the case, the franchise would've had a successful comeback if Masashi was refreshed. Better than the BS we currently having on both ends, the working team and consumers.


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#27 RulesofNature

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:53 AM

I think part of the problem stems from two factors,  the liberties Studio Pierrot took and the use of fanon.

 

SP played favorites and with it's overuse of filler played up the character's personalities. So Sakura's tsundere qualities get cranked to 11 in the anime, Hinata got the Goddess treatment, Karin became even more Sasuke-obsessed and Ino got pissed on. It wasn't 100% the same as the source material. It actually kinda reminds me of how Ranma is a vastly different character in the anime than he was in the manga, or how Sailor Uranus didn't wear dresses in the original anime while Moon cried a lot more than in the source material.

 

Then we get into how the fandom played up Naruto's victim status. Mobs of people trying to beat him to an inch of his life? Didn't happen. Apartment being vandalized? Nope. Secret council dedicated to making his life a living hell? Are you freaking serious? Now we throw in Sakura hitting and belittling him. She doesn't think too highly of the loud-mouthed class clown at first, and in many ways Naruto getting her respect through maturation is a scaled down version of him wanting to be Hokage so people acknowledge him. That respect and admiration was something he had to earn...

 

Except a lot of fans didn't see it that way. He was a victim, so to them he was entitled to those things. Hence we have fans wanting him to be with Hinata (despite the subtext that Hinata doesn't really understand Naruto) because Hinata was nice to him since the beginning. Hell, SP put her in the first episode cheering Naruto on. It's the same people who write things like Naruto secretly being super smart and skilled (lolwut?), hides his abilities since people would fear him too much and bashes Sasuke and Sakura at great lengths. These are the people who make Sakura out to be more annoying, or Sasuke into an entitled brat who looks down on everyone because "I'm an Uchiha therefore I'm better than everyone."

 

The source material got drowned out, and as time went on ended up in service of the anime. Kishi lost control of his own story long before he sold out.


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#28 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:41 AM

It because modern american anime fans are obsessed with moe, and girls that devote themselves to their man no matter how much of a kitten he is. Also Hinata was given scene since the first episode of the anime making her seem more prominent then she actually was in the story.



#29 jak123

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:49 AM

 

From what I've heard, a lot of people wanted refunds for The Last after finding out what it literally was about when seeing it, but Studio Pierrot wouldn't give them refunds, as well as many of the community there, outside of the minority of NaruHina fans, were generally pissed off. That's at least near as I can tell, Jak, but all in all, the fans in Japan were pretty pissed about the ending and how Kishimoto had tried to justify the ending, like saying Sakura would be a terrible woman if she went with Naruto and gave up on Sasuke (which is hypocritical, since what does that make INO!?), and how they feel the idea of Naruto supposedly loving Sakura due to his rivalry with Sasuke being a reason why he is called the biggest scumbag, because he basically lied to them.

I thought it showed that he started liking Sakura before he even met Sasuke.



#30 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:02 AM

I thought it showed that he started liking Sakura before he even met Sasuke.

 

It is, Jak, The Last was just trying to justify why Naruto "moved on" to Hinata so effortlessly by having that claim, and thus ruining his and Sakura's characters in the eyes of the fandom in Japan.



#31 Derock

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:32 AM

Also Hinata was given scene since the first episode of the anime making her seem more prominent then she actually was in the story.

 

It wasn't just Hinata. Ino, Shikamaru, Choji, Kiba and Shino were all shown in the very first episode along with Sasuke and Sakura, despite the fact they weren't shown in the first chapter (well, for Sasuke's case, he was shown barely as NPC). It was a move just to show Naruto and the cast were shown in the same vicinity in order to make sense instead showing random kids like in the first manga chapter. Hell, they gave Ino and Shikamaru the same exact lines as random kid 1 and 2 when Naruto was taking the clone exam.


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#32 RulesofNature

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:35 AM

It because modern american anime fans are obsessed with moe, and girls that devote themselves to their man no matter how much of a kitten he is. Also Hinata was given scene since the first episode of the anime making her seem more prominent then she actually was in the story.

 

And yet people use moe in a derogatory sense. Like, being into moe is often seen as a sign someone is a creepy fan.

 


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#33 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:50 AM

 

And yet people use moe in a derogatory sense. Like, being into moe is often seen as a sign someone is a creepy fan.

 

 

Yeah, tell me about it... @_@ It doesn't help if some people tend to be super creeps about that.

 

Also, this is for Jak. Some pics I found on Tumblr about how Japanese fans felt about The Last.

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#34 jak123

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:14 AM

 

Yeah, tell me about it... @_@ It doesn't help if some people tend to be super creeps about that.

 

Also, this is for Jak. Some pics I found on Tumblr about how Japanese fans felt about The Last.

Do you happen to have a link to bigger images? I can't read them.


Edited by jak123, 05 February 2018 - 05:14 AM.


#35 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 05:16 AM

Do you happen to have a link to bigger images? I can't read them.

 

Sorry, man, those were the sizes I found when getting them on Tumblr and putting 'em in my Imgur account



#36 jak123

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 06:10 AM

 

Sorry, man, those were the sizes I found when getting them on Tumblr and putting 'em in my Imgur account

It's okay. I was able to zoom in enough to read it. That's really interesting that even Naruto's VA thought Sakura and Naruto would end up together. The more I learn about the behind the scenes stuff, the more all of this pisses me off. It amazes me how badly they messed it up. I kinda wish they would do an alternate timeline movie and then see which sales better. That or The Last. 



#37 DrK

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:08 AM

The Last is just really... bad. It's a romance movie with all the focus on one couple, who have no chemistry together, aren't individually likable, and don't look good together. Who would ever want to watch that? Even if it didn't kitten on the manga. Which it does. Even if it didn't make every character OOC, even Gaara. Which it did do. It's bad.



#38 jak123

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

The Last is just really... bad. It's a romance movie with all the focus on one couple, who have no chemistry together, aren't individually likable, and don't look good together. Who would ever want to watch that? Even if it didn't kitten on the manga. Which it does. Even if it didn't make every character OOC, even Gaara. Which it did do. It's bad.

Yep, it's a hamfisted development movie. nothing more. A poorly done one at that.



#39 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:54 PM

Yep, it's a hamfisted development movie. nothing more. A poorly done one at that.

 

And just to justify a crappy, rushed/ham-fisted ending.



#40 RulesofNature

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

Wait. So Sakura did feel things for Naruto but it would have been cruel to Hinata if she acted on them? Wow.


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