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So when did Kishi REALLY switch to NH?


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#21 rocci

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:45 AM

Funny, because that's around when Pain ended if not a little after. Therefore, kitten went downhill after that arc. Fitting.

Yeah, what a dumb decision.

The end of pein arc mark ten years naruto.

Edited by rocci, 05 December 2015 - 04:45 AM.


#22 TouKen4Life3g

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:46 AM

Yeah, what a dumb decision.

The end of pein arc mark ten years naruto.

And then, it all goes downhill. Too many questionable character developments, contradictions, too many new plot element, erasing the old ones, and so on.

#23 James S Cassidy

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 06:24 AM

I think the real question you are looking for is "When did Studio Perriot take over the Naruto story?" Who knows anymore. Kishimoto didn't make any decisions and it is evident by how much of a coward he was to make them. All he really cared about was the Naruto vs Sasuke fight. Everything else was just pushed by SP and such with Kishimoto saying "Yeah, whatever. I don't care."

This is why his answers are so ambiguous or contradicting.


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#24 Hanabi

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 06:29 AM

When he decided to kill Neji.

 

I'm still salty about that.

 

I will forever be salty about that.

i think so, too. kishi said he wanted to make hinata look more like a heroine at that point.

 

his attempt to make sakura look more heroine-like in the snowy country backfired so he had to go the 2nd route.


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#25 Phantom_999

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 11:25 AM



When he decided to kill Neji.

 

I'm still salty about that.

 

I will forever be salty about that.

 

Hey you KNOW that a pairing  is sad, if you kittening need to off someone to make it happen. :superior: That and well Neji contributed more the the story than Hinata. :dry: I said this before and I'll say it again Hinata is just ONE Naruto fangirl that has an obssession to equal ALL of Sasuke's fangirls because of reasons. Pity, or...... IDK. Whatever comes to mind, but she definitely wasn't love interest. WHY? they didn't even resolve Naruto's issues with Sakura properly. They needed to burn the bridge between them for this kittening pairing to happen


Edited by Phantom_999, 28 August 2017 - 11:10 AM.

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#26 Nate River

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 01:33 PM

I'd say around the Pain Arc.



#27 rocci

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 01:50 PM

I'd say around the Pain Arc.

Hinata confession?

#28 tricksie

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 04:52 PM

I'd say around the Pain Arc.

Yes, I'd say the end of the Pain Arc marks the end of Kishi's original story. Everything after was guided by extending the story and branching out the franchise (including the plan of the ending) to make more money. 

 

My thoughts are that the ending wasn't Kishimoto's idea, but he went along with it just the same. Kishi only cared about Naruto and Sasuke, and the pairings, continuity and secondary characters (like Neji) he truly didn't care about. 

 

I don't think it matters when Kishi decided to shift gears from an NS ending to an NH one, because I don't think changed his story. I think he wrote the same thing he always intended to — with Naruto thinking of Sakura, dropping in front of Sakura at the med tent,  acknowledging her in front of his father, being resucitated by her, recognizing her as a powerful part of Team 7, and finally thanking her at the end of the war. I think this was part of the original direction of the story.

 

However when the decision was made to go with NH, I think he changed nothing and instead just inserted the mini arc of Neji's death and Hinata's intervening, as well as the individual scenes with Hinata to offset Naruto's scenes with Sakura. 

 

Sakura's scenes feel in-character for both Naruto and Sakura, while the scenes with Hinata are overly romantic (on her part) and feel forced or contrived within the storyline. Meaning, it seems natural for Sakura and Naruto to be interacting, but each scene with Hinata begs the question of 'Why?' because she's been such a secondary character up until now. And it doesn't read like Naruto is suddenly single Hinata out, instead that the spotlight is just being shined on Hinata. She's getting a big boost (for no justifiable reason within the storyline), while everyone else stays in character.

 

And just to reiterate, Hinata's overtly romantic lines really, really stand out in a story where people in full-on husband/wife relationships do not say 'I love you.'

 

I definitely think Kishi took the easy way out. He signed the contracts, re-upped the deals for the Naruto franchise, then inserted the Hinata scenes to loosely justify the movie to come. Then he didn't bother to change anything else. He wrote the story the way he planned it, then tacked on a bait-and-switch ending with no justification at all. 

 

Kishimoto fulfilled his contract and got his money with no creative effort at all. Like I've always said, it's an NS story with an NH ending. 

 

So for me, there was never really a serious decision to change to NH. Yes, there was a moment that he signed a contract and agreed to direct the story toward NH, the next generation and its franchise. But none of that matters because Kishimoto never really changed his story, just inserted the Hinata scenes. And all of his interviews afterwards (saying it was always planned) are simply misdirects.



#29 Dexter

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 06:03 PM

I'd say around the Pain Arc.

Again that's completely contradicted by the largest NS moments happening in the war....no way was NH planned THAT far back.



#30 hinataiscreepy

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 06:45 PM

I think it happened around the release of Road to Ninja which was a narusaku film by saying something that it is something that he won't be able to do in the manga. He probably knew that the magazine and SP would make NH canon no matter what.



#31 db84x

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 08:07 PM

I think the real question you are looking for is "When did Studio Perriot take over the Naruto story?" Who knows anymore. Kishimoto didn't make any decisions and it is evident by how much of a coward he was to make them. All he really cared about was the Naruto vs Sasuke fight. Everything else was just pushed by SP and such with Kishimoto saying "Yeah, whatever. I don't care."

This is why his answers are so ambiguous or contradicting.

 

I think it happened around the release of Road to Ninja which was a narusaku film by saying something that it is something that he won't be able to do in the manga. He probably knew that the magazine and SP would make NH canon no matter what.

 

Guys why you blame SP ? Actually it was them who made many NS moment.  It not their fault Naruto end in time when Japanese fan-base saturated by massive romantic comedy genre.  



#32 redrose3443

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 08:35 PM

Guys why you blame SP ? Actually it was them who made many NS moment.  It not their fault Naruto end in time when Japanese fan-base saturated by massive romantic comedy genre.


SP are made up of multiple people, so while there were some who supported NS, like Kishimoto said in his interview where his wife hated the ending, there were the same if not more SP staff members who favored Hinata. Kishimoto never really seemed to care about Hinata at all, so that means those around him had to push for her to shine and since SP never hid the fact that they valued Hinata more than even Naruto, it easy to believe that they had a hand in ruining the series.

Anyway, I agree with tricksie, that even when NH was planned to be end game, he didn't try to push for it and just continued showing NS as the best outcome in terms of pairings.

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#33 Hiraishin

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 01:12 AM

Unlikely for multiple reasons.

 

1. Obviously The Last Was rewritten since a movie (especielly a Naruto movie which only take s few months to write produce and animate) would take 2 years

 

2. If NH was decided then Minato would have interacted with Hinata in some way shape or form and Naruto's sudden "Hey you know mom's final words? umm yeah kitten that" wouldn't have been shoehorned in the final act of the series to make it seem less like he let his parents down entirely

 

3. Minato gave NS his blessing and was there on his deathbed...with Sakura. Sakura and Karin parallel during the CPR scene and while Hinata disappeared for a good 30 to 40 chapters. 

 

sometime early 2014 I can even understand someone saying late 2013 but 2012? 

lol no

It had to have been at latest ~Dec. 2012 because that's when Neji was killed, and remember, Kishimoto killed him in order to bring Naruto and Hinata closer together (a "cupid"). They also announced the next movie (The Last, the idea for was brought to Kishimoto by SP) at this time, saying it would come out in 2014 instead of 2013. And while I haven't seen it myself, the animation, production, etc. does seem to be on a higher level than the previous Naruto movies (even though the art style itself is horrendous.. seriously), coupled with the designs Kishimoto had to do, the databook that came out with the movie, all those things...

 

2. This is assuming Kishimoto is a good writer. Which he's not.

 

As for 3, it was either because Kishimoto wanted to "mislead" the readers (which he said himself is what he did), or because he continued to write the story in the way he intended it, as tricksie said, but just tacked on the ending. Or it could be a mixture of both.

 

And before this (end of 2009) is probably when he got the biggest backlash from Sakura haters and proclamations of love for Hinata from her fans, despite Kishimoto trying to portray Sakura as a heroine, prompting him to give up on her.

 

I think it happened around the release of Road to Ninja which was a narusaku film by saying something that it is something that he won't be able to do in the manga. He probably knew that the magazine and SP would make NH canon no matter what.

Which is funny, because that's what NH/SS said—the reason for all the NS in Road to Ninja is because he wouldn't be able to do that in the manga. That's how they interpreted his statement and that movie (which doesn't make sense coming from them because that would mean Kishimoto wanted to write NaruSaku, he wanted to put that in the manga but wasn't able to, so he put it in the movie instead). So, perhaps they were right after all...? haha.


Edited by Hiraishin, 06 December 2015 - 05:11 AM.

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#34 db84x

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 04:31 AM

SP are made up of multiple people, so while there were some who supported NS, like Kishimoto said in his interview where his wife hated the ending, there were the same if not more SP staff members who favored Hinata. Kishimoto never really seemed to care about Hinata at all, so that means those around him had to push for her to shine and since SP never hid the fact that they valued Hinata more than even Naruto, it easy to believe that they had a hand in ruining the series.

 

Actually when Naruto end, Japanese anime market overly crowded by comedy romantic troupe (idiot hero x tsundere character).  And massive Sakura hate spawn from she have tsundere trait, all of us knew after SP fix their error in The Last, Sakura hater reduced significantly.

 

Which is funny, because that's what NH/SS said—the reason for all the NS in Road to Ninja is because he wouldn't be able to do that in the manga. That's how they interpreted his statement and that movie (which doesn't make sense coming from them because that would mean Kishimoto wanted to write NaruSaku, he wanted to put that in the manga but wasn't able to, so he put it in the movie instead). So, perhaps they were right after all...? haha.

 

 It well known fact that some female SP staff which bias to NS is RTN director



#35 rocci

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 05:37 AM

@db
Romcom is over saturate long time ago, not just this time.
People doesn't hate sakura because she's tsundere, but because of he uselessness, relevancy, and kishi treatment to her character.
You are wrong, fan still hate her. It just nh fan doesn't hate her anymore because she's not the threat for the pairing.
Rtn is kishi product that replace the movie that become chikara arc.

Oh and shonen love tsundere. They always triumph in the demographic.

#36 Hanabi

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 06:59 AM

 

Actually when Naruto end, Japanese anime market overly crowded by comedy romantic troupe (idiot hero x tsundere character).  And massive Sakura hate spawn from she have tsundere trait, all of us knew after SP fix their error in The Last, Sakura hater reduced significantly.

 

 

 It well known fact that some female SP staff which bias to NS is RTN director

Guys why you blame SP ? Actually it was them who made many NS moment.  It not their fault Naruto end in time when Japanese fan-base saturated by massive romantic comedy genre.  

oh you mean to say all those fillers that focus on her, and the filler abilities are all normal? the special treatment hinata got in the pain arc is completely normal? and the last movie which focus on hinata and her fillergan is completely normal? or how she's the only special side chara with the bicycle ED? or how kishi has SAID those working with him preferred hinata? or how the studio have SAID they favored hinata?

 

and yeah, keep on hating on ONE studio member who has not claimed anything, just because the all powerful SS fandom dictates so. you're such a lame hypocrite for joining them when you don't even like sakura :)

 

also plz gtfo this site with your piss poor arguments that come straight out your ass :3 


Edited by Hanabi, 06 December 2015 - 09:05 AM.

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#37 totherpage95

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 12:11 AM

 

 
 

oh you mean to say all those fillers that focus on her, and the filler abilities are all normal? the special treatment hinata got in the pain arc is completely normal? and the last movie which focus on hinata and her fillergan is completely normal? or how she's the only special side chara with the bicycle ED? or how kishi has SAID those working with him preferred hinata? or how the studio have SAID they favored hinata?

 

and yeah, keep on hating on ONE studio member who has not claimed anything, just because the all powerful SS fandom dictates so. you're such a lame hypocrite for joining them when you don't even like sakura :)

 

also plz gtfo this site with your piss poor arguments that come straight out your ass :3 

 

what did he say. this website is becoming so hatred filled. naruhina and sasusaku morons aren't worth time. narusaku fans should be the bigger people. as someone who only watched the anime I never had much of a problem with anything sp put in the anime as filler except hinata naked... and kishi has done weird stuff as well in my opinion. but telling someone to get off the site isn't right



#38 Hanabi

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 12:19 AM

what did he say. this website is becoming so hatred filled. naruhina and sasusaku morons aren't worth time. narusaku fans should be the bigger people. as someone who only watched the anime I never had much of a problem with anything sp put in the anime as filler except hinata naked... and kishi has done weird stuff as well in my opinion. but telling someone to get off the site isn't right

if you notice, there's plenty of other non-ns fans in this site but this guy here is a troll

he doesn't even hide it

and trolls should be treated as such


Edited by Hanabi, 07 December 2015 - 12:21 AM.

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#39 RedFaction

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 12:21 AM

what did he say. this website is becoming so hatred filled. naruhina and sasusaku morons aren't worth time. narusaku fans should be the bigger people. as someone who only watched the anime I never had much of a problem with anything sp put in the anime as filler except hinata naked... and kishi has done weird stuff as well in my opinion. but telling someone to get off the site isn't right

It's so obvious that this guy is an anti-NS. He's a troll and I'd rather not have trolls on this site, so he has to get the hell out of here.


Edited by RedFaction, 07 December 2015 - 12:22 AM.

 


#40 SlyNinjaKnight

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    Wish that Kishi would just stop trying to 'fix' Naruto, I guess that no one ever told him the phrase 'digging your own grave'. I will remember fondly the characters that made me love Naruto that were sacrificed at the all-mighty altar that is money (and crazy fan boys/girls).

Posted 07 December 2015 - 12:21 AM

I don't think the Naruto/Hinata pairing was truly put into place until Naruto: The Last was in full production, meaning the script was completed, etc. And I think this tells me that Kishi really didn't have any pairings decided while writing the series because of the forced interactions and retcons that had to be done to 'try' and make Naruto/Hinata work (failing miserably in the process). He and the producers of the film, and the studio had to scramble to make an attempt to make the relationship seem believable (again failing miserably). The fact that the film had forced (genjutsu brainwashing) interactions between Naruto and Hinata, stealing/copying characterization from other characters (Hinata being bullied, since her being bullied is somewhat believable) and then having Sakura committing character suicide with the 'loving me only due to rivalry with Sasuke' line, showed that Kishi and etc. were just trying to make things up as they went along to try and keep as much credibility as they could with such a rapid change of course.






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