Jump to content

Close
Photo

Boruto: The NeverEnding Prologue Chapter 17


  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

#41 Phantom_999

Phantom_999

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,982 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Posted 05 November 2017 - 04:42 PM

01.jpg43.png03.png

 

Yeah the original characters actually look pretty good


3fbe3276d61acb2079b56cd2212a341c14963200


#42 TouKen4Life3g

TouKen4Life3g

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,306 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 November 2017 - 05:23 PM

It's also related to the art style. Boruto's artist art style can't adapt to Kishimoto's art style. His name is Ikemoto ?

Yes. Like when I said Boruto should get canned, I do want this guy to have a chance of his own. I understand Kishi was being nice to let him enter "strong" with a related success work, but I would prefer if he has the liberty to see what he can as a standalone artist. That's just me.



#43 T XD

T XD

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,778 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:It starts with ' L '. Guess it :D

Posted 05 November 2017 - 07:25 PM

Yes. Like when I said Boruto should get canned, I do want this guy to have a chance of his own. I understand Kishi was being nice to let him enter "strong" with a related success work, but I would prefer if he has the liberty to see what he can as a standalone artist. That's just me.

He should have a chance to promote work of his own cause with this art style and quality, he can get somewhere. Maybe he can be a writer and an artist of his own manga or an artist for a mangaka.

 

I think his art style suits for a medieval setting type of story.


Edited by T XD, 06 November 2017 - 01:53 PM.


#44 Namaenash

Namaenash

    Chuunin

  • Chuunin
  • PipPipPip
  • 560 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 06 November 2017 - 12:10 AM

Yes. Like when I said Boruto should get canned, I do want this guy to have a chance of his own. I understand Kishi was being nice to let him enter "strong" with a related success work, but I would prefer if he has the liberty to see what he can as a standalone artist. That's just me.

That's true. Naruto is Kishi's legacy and it should've been kept that way.

Retrospectively, I still don't quite get the reason why Kishi decided to end Naruto abruptly 3 years ago only to continue with Boruto series. Lots of plot not concluded gracefully, let alone the miserable pairing outcomes.

Yes, the series declined during the war arc (looking back, we can see the starting point of decline was when volume 64 went out which took YoY hit of about 15% and it never returned to where it was). But Boruto made this franchise took a deep dive and fasten the decline trends.

Even if Kishimoto spearhead Boruto series, I bet it won't save this franchise. So, why did he opt to become Boruto editor? He promoted New Era project since 2013. When it started the execution, he only drew the gaiden and part of volume 1. He didn't start his sci-fi manga he bragged years before the ending. Instead, he used his assistant to execute Boruto while he opted to become its editor.

Seriously, it doesn't look like he's helping his assistant at all. It looks like he was using him so his name won't be attached to something that's declining.

The Boruto artist, whoever his name is, deserves to get a fresh start on his own. It's not fair to hand him a manga in such state. Either Kishi is at fault, or this is his way to 'punish' those surrounding him by setting up an ending that almost impossible to build interesting plot on top of it.

Edited by Namaenash, 06 November 2017 - 12:15 AM.

http://namaenasuyou.tumblr.com/     ||     https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6308104/

 

"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."

"What? What are you saying?"

"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#45 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,542 posts

Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:55 AM

It is important to remember that SP, TV Tokyo, Shueisha, and the other companies that profited off Naruto did not want it to end; what they really wanted was for it to return to what it was in its prime. So if Naruto was to end they wanted a sequel to continue to make profits off the franchise.

 

So when kishimoto wanted to leave he needed to give them a capable replacement for said sequel; clearly the person that agreed to do it was Ikemoto. Then problems hit immediately because someone picked nH/SS for they ending -which they hoped would maximize the profits but instead did the opposite-. The blow-back eventually became so bad that they weren't confident that the series could hold up if kishimoto left. So they ordered him to stay on. The problem is since he had spent so long saying he was done with series, and wanted move on to his next project they couldn't make him the mangaka; so again to save face they stuck him as the editor. This also may have led to them getting a third guy brought in that could do the story since they didn't trust one replacement being able to handle the sequel.

 

Kishmoto should just move on to his next story because this is just embarrassing at this point.

 

Ikemoto should not be working on this series because he can not replicate kishimoto's art style. He not a bad artist, but that not the problem. This manga relies on nostalgia to sell if the art can't sell that then it is bad, and if he has to so radically redesigned the characters in order for them to work then it runs into the same problem as if the art is bad. As for young kids they were hoping to get, the wildly varying art quality, and the monthly releases have probably already turned them off by now.

 

Kodachi should just go back to those light novels.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 November 2017 - 03:25 PM.


#46 NarutoUzumaki01

NarutoUzumaki01

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,431 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 November 2017 - 04:56 AM

Funny enough, was reading a manga, where mangaka was forsed to work on the manga that made it in popularity in a "moe" genre, but he was willing to write sci-fi manga, this was created far before end of Kishimoto's work, but here is a bit of reasoning of manga artists.
Character


#47 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,542 posts

Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:08 AM

Where's that from?



#48 T XD

T XD

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,778 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:It starts with ' L '. Guess it :D

Posted 06 November 2017 - 02:04 PM

Funny enough, was reading a manga, where mangaka was forsed to work on the manga that made it in popularity in a "moe" genre, but he was willing to write sci-fi manga, this was created far before end of Kishimoto's work, but here is a bit of reasoning of manga artists.

Character

I think that's the state of many mangaka in Japan.



#49 Namaenash

Namaenash

    Chuunin

  • Chuunin
  • PipPipPip
  • 560 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 06 November 2017 - 02:58 PM

 

On the Sci-Fi manga, it's not that easy to just jump into a new work. You need to craft the ideas. You need to actually kind of start it, and then sell it. And then maybe, once you get into it, you realize it doesn't work, and start-over. 

 

Or maybe he decided he just didn't want to do it, and take things easy as it were. 

 

I'm still baffled at your numbers, given that I've gone and shown you that you should at least acknowledge that the series climbed to quite a large high post-ending, and making any argument about the miserable pairings making things worse falls flat when provided with the immediate after-math evidence. You're better off with another argument. 

 

I don't normally entertain these kind of comments, but yeah, I'm off today and tomorrow.... and I'm a bit bored. lol.

 

Yet another verbal gymnastic from you. I believe *we* are the one showing you the numbers and facts. It is *you* that didn't provide a comprehensive facts to support your argument.

 

Here's the latest part of our numbers-related discussion:

http://www.narusaku....=15867&p=949758

 

Here are some of the past discussions for reference:

http://www.narusaku....=15867&p=945628

http://www.narusaku....=15867&p=945699

http://www.narusaku....=15867&p=947313

 

 

I'm actually the one baffled at your analysis that:

 

1. Fails to acknowledge the importance of Lifetime Values, a basic metric to do trend analysis

 

2. Does not comprehend the meaning of trending up vs trending down. Your post today still mentioned this series "climbed quite a large high post-ending" without giving facts. NS fans in this forum argue with manga panels and fact numbers. *You* argue with verbal gymnastic.

 

3. Unable to acknowledge that figures from Oricon is not comprehensive (i.e. it will never be tally with 220 million of total Naruto volume sales from 72 volumes, yet, it's the closest that we'll ever get. Do your self a favor and find its mean value).

 

4. Unable to comprehend that both of us are *not* the authority of Naruto franchise, hence our opinion is as good as shop owners in a local market talking about topics at Summer Davos; in other words, our opinion does not matter to the franchise's owner. lol.

 

5. Does not consider the very basic element of trend analysis: market segment (i.e. casual moviegoers vs loyal anime watchers/manga buyers); You tried to compare movie results and mix it in our conversation about anime viewership and manga sales. Are you kidding me? ....and the most glaring one about you...

 

6. Contradicts your own statements and findings. Seriously, look up at your own statements and compile it yourself.

 

We can do this verbal gymnastic all day long. It still does not change many facts today about Boruto series (commercially or non-commercially) and about Naruto franchise towards the ending.

 

You can debate like nobody business, but you'll never change the fact that volume 3 of Boruto sold about ~264k, its anime never entered top 10 of weekly Japanese anime ranking, etc (heck, even in the recent NHK Top 100, it's not there), its volume sales hardly enters top 30 (fyi, the latest volume was on rank #64 of yearly manga sales in Japan for FY2017).

 

The sales numbers are only the tip of the iceberg and part of reflection of its success/failure, whichever you want to take it.

 

Note: don't bother to reply, since I won't reply back unless comprehensive facts are present to support your findings.


http://namaenasuyou.tumblr.com/     ||     https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6308104/

 

"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."

"What? What are you saying?"

"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#50 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,542 posts

Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:25 PM

Oh even the anime is doing poorly? That's good that is the one thing I wasn't sure was succeeding or not.



#51 tricksie

tricksie

    Legendary Ninja

  • ANBU
  • 3,655 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:33 PM

The sneak peak of mature Boruto, scarred and tattooed, was the only thing that was interesting to me.... Wake me when we get there.



#52 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,542 posts

Posted 06 November 2017 - 03:38 PM

The sneak peak of mature Boruto, scarred and tattooed, was the only thing that was interesting to me.... Wake me when we get there.

Well depending how long they want to draw out the conflict with Kara, if Nail appears in this arc, and if they want any-other arc before Nail kills Naruto. I say at least...5-10 years.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 November 2017 - 03:39 PM.


#53 NarutoUzumaki01

NarutoUzumaki01

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,431 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 November 2017 - 06:39 PM

Where's that from?

Arakawa under the bridge. 



#54 Yyubie

Yyubie

    Missing-nin

  • Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,888 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 06 November 2017 - 09:40 PM

The sneak peak of mature Boruto, scarred and tattooed, was the only thing that was interesting to me.... Wake me when we get there.

I think someone already said that scene was pure click bait purpose to bring in fans. The creator not even sure if they can make there or how to develop a story up to that point. And i agree , any kind of story , manga , anime that use this kind of trick means the creator is not confident enough that their story is going to be successful , so they resort to this kind of trick.


tumblr_nexjjgShiv1rz4qnxo1_500.gif
An out of control man needs a strong woman to control him.
And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.


#55 Namaenash

Namaenash

    Chuunin

  • Chuunin
  • PipPipPip
  • 560 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:15 AM

I think someone already said that scene was pure click bait purpose to bring in fans. The creator not even sure if they can make there or how to develop a story up to that point. And i agree , any kind of story , manga , anime that use this kind of trick means the creator is not confident enough that their story is going to be successful , so they resort to this kind of trick.


It's a good attention getter nonetheless. Where Boruto manga fall short is to keep the momentum going. A short preview of future event to guide the storyline would work well if the build up is done correctly. Otherwise it'll be anticlimax.

If the event in the preview were to happen 2-3 years down the line, what's the chances of your readers sticking with your story until it happens?

http://namaenasuyou.tumblr.com/     ||     https://www.fanfiction.net/u/6308104/

 

"I'm sorry I didn't believe. But I'd given up believing in so much, until I met you. From the first day I saw you, you were everything I ever wanted to believe in. You can do this, Diana. I know you can...But I have to go."

"What? What are you saying?"

"It's okay, this is what I came here to do. I can save today, but you... you can save the world."


#56 ThroughWithLove

ThroughWithLove

    Illustrious Tap Dancer

  • Elite Teacher
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,172 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:34 AM

It's a good attention getter nonetheless. Where Boruto manga fall short is to keep the momentum going. A short preview of future event to guide the storyline would work well if the build up is done correctly. Otherwise it'll be anticlimax.

If the event in the preview were to happen 2-3 years down the line, what's the chances of your readers sticking with your story until it happens?

 

Slim to none. With consistently well written series like One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, My Hero Academia and Tokyo Ghoul around, who needs bottom of barrel crap-o-la like Boruto?  :no:


Posted Image

 

Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!


#57 Yyubie

Yyubie

    Missing-nin

  • Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,888 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:39 AM

It's a good attention getter nonetheless. Where Boruto manga fall short is to keep the momentum going. A short preview of future event to guide the storyline would work well if the build up is done correctly. Otherwise it'll be anticlimax.

If the event in the preview were to happen 2-3 years down the line, what's the chances of your readers sticking with your story until it happens?

The story can go to hell , but these days as long as the fight is good , the animation is good , and there's fan service i think it's all that matter. Little bit out topic , i watch DBS and i like it at first up to resurrection of frieza , then i lost interest durin black goku arc, and eventually drop it after watching the tournament after that. But it seems that i'm just a minority and lots of people like it , i thought maybe as long as the battle is good , there is spiked hair cool super saiyan or other cool looking transformation , little gag and fan service people gonna get hook regardless.


tumblr_nexjjgShiv1rz4qnxo1_500.gif
An out of control man needs a strong woman to control him.
And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.


#58 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,542 posts

Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:06 AM

I think someone already said that scene was pure click bait purpose to bring in fans. The creator not even sure if they can make there or how to develop a story up to that point. And i agree , any kind of story , manga , anime that use this kind of trick means the creator is not confident enough that their story is going to be successful , so they resort to this kind of trick.

That would be me. That scene was just to draw up interest in the manga. They didn't have a plan.

 

This is what I think that argument over that eye was about. They didn't have any plan by the first chapter so they gave Bolt his own Sasuke then gave him and bolt accessories that they could build a story around them obtaining as well as their relationship. This led to problem when the anime wanted something to connect the anime with the manga -it has become painfully clear that the anime staff do not want any of their episode to be considered filler anymore-. Since the tattoo wasn't on Bolt by the chunin exams they couldn't used that, and the rest seem to been gain under his apprentice ship from Sasuke, or from Nail. So they used the eye since they only one that seemed free of those constraints. At first the three clowns rejected it hoping they could do something cooler with it. Then the anime staff got angry and the three clown were forced to accept it.

 

But as for the manga they still have no clue over all what they are going to do with the plot. They have a point they are now working towards with the Bolt v Nail battle, and are now playing it by ear on how they get to that point. The problem is they need a good writer to pull that off, which I don't believe they have.

 

It's a good attention getter nonetheless. Where Boruto manga fall short is to keep the momentum going. A short preview of future event to guide the storyline would work well if the build up is done correctly. Otherwise it'll be anticlimax.

If the event in the preview were to happen 2-3 years down the line, what's the chances of your readers sticking with your story until it happens?

Well it clearly interested even some of the people on this site. So as an attention grabber it was a good idea, but they have ruined any enthusiasm for it with their slow meandering storytelling & inconsistent art.

 

If this was a weekly manga that could happen in 2-3 years, but this is a monthly manga so it will at best happen in 5 years or so.

 

Slim to none. With consistently well written series like One Piece, Hunter x Hunter, My Hero Academia and Tokyo Ghoul around, who needs bottom of barrel crap-o-la like Boruto?  :no:

I said this a few months back but let me repeat myself. Boruto is facing something that Naruto never had to deal with; actual competition. In WSJ Naruto quickly put itself comfortably in second place behind One Piece and in front of Bleach & Gintama. Not only that but all of them were able to find the own niche market so they could all make profit. And in the states it faced no competition allowing it to become #1 internationally. Now Boruto has both My Hero Academy, and Black Clover going after the same niche. BNA has already taken Naruto's old spot as WSJ #2 manga, and Black Clover is slowly rising in popularity.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 16 July 2018 - 04:20 PM.


#59 tricksie

tricksie

    Legendary Ninja

  • ANBU
  • 3,655 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 07 November 2017 - 03:48 PM

I think someone already said that scene was pure click bait purpose to bring in fans. The creator not even sure if they can make there or how to develop a story up to that point. And i agree , any kind of story , manga , anime that use this kind of trick means the creator is not confident enough that their story is going to be successful , so they resort to this kind of trick.

Ugh. Disappointing but not surprising.

 

It's a good attention getter nonetheless. Where Boruto manga fall short is to keep the momentum going. A short preview of future event to guide the storyline would work well if the build up is done correctly. Otherwise it'll be anticlimax.

If the event in the preview were to happen 2-3 years down the line, what's the chances of your readers sticking with your story until it happens?

Yes you're completely right. Who would stick with it? But, I guess it could also be a failsafe — throw in a timeskip and reup the whole story to squeak out one more year.

 

I said this a few months back but let me repeat myself. Boruto is facing something that Naruto never had to deal with; actual competition. In WSJ Naruto quickly put itself comfortably in second place behind One Piece and in front of Bleach & Gintama. Not only that but all of them were able to find the own niche market so they could all make profit. And in the states it faced no competition allowing it to become #1 internationally. Now Boruto has both My Hero Academy, and Black Clover going after the same niche. BNA has already taken Naruto's old spot as WSJ #2 manga, and Black Clover is slowly rising in popularity.

So right!! The cultural/international environment and fanbases that Boruto is facing is ENTIRELY different from Naruto's first years in late 90s early 2000s. Not only in making a debut but in retaining that fanbase, Boruto would have to be so much more than just a weak sequel to Naruto.

 

Boruto is a spin off of something greater, really. I think of it more of a spin off of what an American show might have, I.E., a crime show, and then a crime show of the same name in a different location: lesser popularity but still draws interest because it caters an enjoyable product. This lesser effect is doubled down on because there's a new writer, who is arguably not as good, despite being a good illustrator. 

 

Thus I find expectation and criticism of it matching it's predecessor questionable, It's best enjoyed as its own work, approached without pre-conceived bias. 

Because Boruto is a spin off of something greater, it can never be approached without preconceived bias. Full stop. 



#60 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,542 posts

Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:11 PM

Ugh. Disappointing but not surprising.

 

Yes you're completely right. Who would stick with it? But, I guess it could also be a failsafe — throw in a timeskip and reup the whole story to squeak out one more year.

 

So right!! The cultural/international environment and fanbases that Boruto is facing is ENTIRELY different from Naruto's first years in late 90s early 2000s. Not only in making a debut but in retaining that fanbase, Boruto would have to be so much more than just a weak sequel to Naruto.

 

Because Boruto is a spin off of something greater, it can never be approached without preconceived bias. Full stop. 

The only thing that can be surprising about this series anymore is if something has actual quality in it! For example Ikemoto's art when he is not trying to imitate kishi's.

 

Only the most fanatical people are sticking with by this point...I'm only sticking with it because it takes less time to summaries the chapter then it does the episodes. It's not a fail-safe... unless they are told to wrap up the story as quickly as possible while making it look like its not being cancelled. Then it is. Other then that. It is something they are now writing towards. They are now just working towards "how did that scene come about?" Everything else that makes up a story (including the plot) they will make up along the way.

 

The thing is, if SP was not so obsessed with showing how perfect nH was with the Last, and instead just went with nH/SS just happened. They would not be having a bad of a problem with keeping the old fanbase as they are right now. What soured the Japanese fans to nH was how over the top they were with it in the last and afterwards. So now they have to deal with a very hemorrhage fanbase in a country that has most likely become very disinterested in the franchise. While also having to deal with the fact that in the three years since Naruto's ending BNA has since taken Naruto's old spot, Black Clover is still growing, and Boruto fanbase is declining not growing.

 

You really can't see Boruto as something new, it realize too heavily on Naruto. It is more Naruto part 3 that kishimoto was too lazy to write so he gave job to someone else instead of a sequel. So kids are going to flock more to either BNA or BC since they doesn't have as much baggage as Boruto does. Also it doesn't help that both the anime and the manga come off as old men trying to be hip...Do kids even say hip or cool anymore?


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 07 November 2017 - 06:22 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users