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What if Sasuke had killed Sakura during the Land of Iron arc?


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#21 lupina

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:41 AM

Guess we'll never really know, but contradictions (and he contradicted himself in his interviews quite some times ...) are a sign of a something/somebody is not completly honest.

To me (and I think that I can safely say to almost everybody else here) it feels that the decision was made later on, due to commercial reasons. They can't say that openly, of course. So they have to wrap it nicely/conceal it.

I think they made a lot of People (those who speculated on NH very early on) very happy when they said "it was planned from the beginning".


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#22 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:29 PM

It's so hard to understand. Was it really because Kishimoto was put under pressure? Or does he actually believes in the ending?

Does he?

 

:argh:

If you're trying to picture something as real thing, you don't need things that was real for decade as remind that you're just trying to make something look real, because people remember what realtionship of characters was, and now they rarely even speak to each other, it looks really forced.



#23 Kagomaru

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 01:55 PM

Guess we'll never really know, but contradictions (and he contradicted himself in his interviews quite some times ...) are a sign of a something/somebody is not completly honest.

To me (and I think that I can safely say to almost everybody else here) it feels that the decision was made later on, due to commercial reasons. They can't say that openly, of course. So they have to wrap it nicely/conceal it.

I think they made a lot of People (those who speculated on NH very early on) very happy when they said "it was planned from the beginning".

Gullible tools.


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#24 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:15 PM

Guess we'll never really know, but contradictions (and he contradicted himself in his interviews quite some times ...) are a sign of a something/somebody is not completly honest.

 

Of course he's not. This is standard business practice both in Japan and especially over here in the West. Like how Marvel comics writers touted that "Captain America was permanently dead" and how "Spider-Man's public unmasking would change things forever!" Both events effectively retconned within a year. Telling big fat lies is standard business and puffery.  :lmao:


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 23 October 2017 - 04:15 PM.

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#25 Yyubie

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:28 PM

Even i have hard time about this , the reason is this is Kishimoto we talking about , he has INFINITE amount of love towards UCHIHA clan and SASUKE.

 

In my opinion i can only see things if i put myself in Naruto shoes , Naruto will confront Sasuke first , and then ask why did he kill Sakura , tear starting to flow out of Naruto eyes slowly while he remembering the old team 7 photos breaking/shattering , he keep questioning how did those happy days come to this ? his best friend kill the one he love the most. Then Naruto fight him , depending on Sasuke reason if hes reason was for revenge against konoha while saying it like the way he said after he kill danzo then naruto goes dark power up/transformation. And as much as i really want that kitten to die , i think Naruto going to spare his life , but not without leaving a gift for Sasuke to remember. Sasuke will lose his will to lived , he goes mind broken and crazy fear running down his spine whenever he remember Naruto dark transformation while beating him , that memory keep haunting him for the rest of his life.


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#26 AHK

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

Honestly, tough what if. I don't like the execution or the idea of it though.
 
You're having this occur -right- after the Fake Confession pretty much. Just not a way to get rid of a major character.
 
To fix this I'd have Sakura survive the blow, then proceed in a fight where they both seemingly die, but Sasuke survives and returns later on. That would turn it from a rather frustrating way reader-wise to a way that would make things have explosive impact without it seeming like throwing Sakura away. 
 
 
\

Someone who rabidly defends the ending of the story lectures on proper way to throw characters away/getting rid of major characters.

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#27 ultranx

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:37 PM

Someone who rabidly defends the ending of the story lectures on proper way to throw characters away/getting rid of major characters.

I think analyzer's gone delusional now, can't even tell you were talking about her ppfft. *runs off to play xenoverse 2 with mods*


Edited by ultranx, 23 October 2017 - 06:38 PM.

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#28 AHK

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:43 PM

 

So she does. Stay tuned for the next lecture. I don't know about rabidly, given I've delivered criticism multiple times.

 

Sakura's death would have to be done right. It's not a Jirayai death, or a Neji death level, both effective deaths, but Sakura is more prominent character than both of them. Readers would want pay off, which is why the timing of it to happen in the Land of Iron Arc is really iffy. 

No, you really haven't lol

 

It doesn't matter when she died, as the ending killed her anyway (partially my point about you to begin with). And Neji's death was not effective at all, and wasn't even in the same realm as Jiraiya. Kishi said in an interview with a reporter that he killed Neji for NH. Let's not even begin to compliment. 


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#29 James S Cassidy

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:13 PM

No, you really haven't lol

 

It doesn't matter when she died, as the ending killed her anyway (partially my point about you to begin with). And Neji's death was not effective at all, and wasn't even in the same realm as Jiraiya. Kishi said in an interview with a reporter that he killed Neji for NH. Let's not even begin to compliment. 

You can tell this when people are more pissed off than sad about Neji's death. They were even more pissed off on Kishimoto's reason whye he killed Neji off. Kishimoto ain't no JK Rowling or George RR Martin.

I also love how the proenders blamed Sakura for it. "Why didn't she heal him? She could have saved him." I am sorry you don't accept that Neji had to be cupid to force Naruto to be with Hinata, but you don't have to be salty about it and blame other characters. Even with medical ninjutsu, there is only so much you can do to save people even if she tried. Just like how Tsunade couldn't save Dan.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 23 October 2017 - 07:13 PM.

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#30 Kagomaru

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:45 PM

You can tell this when people are more pissed off than sad about Neji's death. They were even more pissed off on Kishimoto's reason whye he killed Neji off. Kishimoto ain't no JK Rowling or George RR Martin.

I also love how the proenders blamed Sakura for it. "Why didn't she heal him? She could have saved him." I am sorry you don't accept that Neji had to be cupid to force Naruto to be with Hinata, but you don't have to be salty about it and blame other characters. Even with medical ninjutsu, there is only so much you can do to save people even if she tried. Just like how Tsunade couldn't save Dan.

Y'know, I can just imagine the carnage that would ensue if J.K Rowling's used Ron as a sacrificial lamb for Harry x Ginny. 


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#31 harry4e

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:35 PM

Considering Naruto thought the person responsible for him growing up as a orphan was a pretty cool guy, he'd probably forgive the git and be best mates with him no matter what, heck he'd probably push Hinata in his direction, because Sasuke needs to be happy right? Uchiha's are all just misunderstood, all that murder and death is because they love too much.

 

If you look at Naruto's history the only person he didn't forgive was Kaguya, and thought the best thing to say to his son was how she didn't have a heart....Madara, Orichimaru, Obito, etc were all cool, but Kaguya someone who actually showed emotion at one point was the only person he didn't think had a heart. You don't say that to a son no matter how ancient he may be.


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#32 harry4e

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:38 PM

Y'know, I can just imagine the carnage that would ensue if J.K Rowling's used Ron as a sacrificial lamb for Harry x Ginny. 

 

For one they were already together so it wouldn't work...also I'd be OK with Ron dying, JK Rowling really screwed up his character when she decided to make Hermione look more mature Ron had to remain a immature brat.


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#33 AHK

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:14 AM

I have, actually. Given, I believe mine is delivered more fair-headed than most and acknowledges Kishimoto's talent and Naruto's success and what it does well, even if it has its flaws. 
 
Neji's death is functionally well done because it works more than just that, and has many effective layers at work. It takes away someone close to Naruto, one of the first people in a dark place Naruto saves. Neji's arch comes full circle. He also brings Naruto and Hinata closer together, yes, specifically in the way for Naruto to realize that Hinata has always been by his side, as per the interview anyway. Neji's death also comes right after Shikaku's, adding to the nameable character's death toll and creating more menace around Obito. It also sets up Naruto's despair moment.
 
Jirayai's is too mind, if a different weight of sorts because he is the mentor that passes away, a common pick really narratively.
 
How was Sakura's character ruined? I'm assuming this is a pairing complaint, given the Neji is a pairing complaint, I assume your frustration is because of pairings.

You really haven't, and there isn't anything "fair minded" about anything you have said this far.

Neji's death was not functionally well done, and there were no layers to it. First of all, any deeper meaning to Neji's death was lost and invalidated when Kishi inexcusably said that Neji's death was simply for the sake of NH. Neji's death served no other purpose, and at face value Neji's character was emasculated by it. He died exactly like his father did, his death reinforced everything that his character was supposed to escape. Not only that, but had Neji's death served purpose in the first place, it would have been destroyed with the ending, where hinata did absolutely jack kitten to improve the Hyuuga clan. Neji's only purpose was so that Hinata can step over his corpse because she is a single minded waste of space that couldn't do anything but parrot the name of someone she never knew but was infatuated with. She was weak garbage, and Neji died because of it.

Neji's death was nothing in comparison to the others.

Sakura's character was butchered in large part due to the pairing, as her ending reduced everything that had been good about her and put her worst qualities in the spotlight, and made those her core personality following.

You can tell this when people are more pissed off than sad about Neji's death. They were even more pissed off on Kishimoto's reason whye he killed Neji off. Kishimoto ain't no JK Rowling or George RR Martin.
I also love how the proenders blamed Sakura for it. "Why didn't she heal him? She could have saved him." I am sorry you don't accept that Neji had to be cupid to force Naruto to be with Hinata, but you don't have to be salty about it and blame other characters. Even with medical ninjutsu, there is only so much you can do to save people even if she tried. Just like how Tsunade couldn't save Dan.

Kishi is bad, but Rowling isn't much better. Saying "Kishimoto isn't Rowling" is like saying the Browns aren't the Colts. They both sucked lol

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#34 Illnevergiveup3

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:23 AM

You really haven't, and there isn't anything "fair minded" about anything you have said this far.

Neji's death was not functionally well done, and there were no layers to it. First of all, any deeper meaning to Neji's death was lost and invalidated when Kishi inexcusably said that Neji's death was simply for the sake of NH. Neji's death served no other purpose, and at face value Neji's character was emasculated by it. He died exactly like his father did, his death reinforced everything that his character was supposed to escape. Not only that, but had Neji's death served purpose in the first place, it would have been destroyed with the ending, where hinata did absolutely jack kitten to improve the Hyuuga clan. Neji's only purpose was so that Hinata can step over his corpse because she is a single minded waste of space that couldn't do anything but parrot the name of someone she never knew but was infatuated with. She was weak garbage, and Neji died because of it.

Neji's death was nothing in comparison to the others.

Sakura's character was butchered in large part due to the pairing, as her ending reduced everything that had been good about her and put her worst qualities in the spotlight, and made those her core personality following.
Kishi is bad, but Rowling isn't much better. Saying "Kishimoto isn't Rowling" is like saying the Browns aren't the Colts. They both sucked lol

 

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#35 Moon_Girl

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:54 AM

If Sasuke killed Sakura? Then SasuSaku would really be dead.  :zaru: Although I would have been eternally salty cuz I love Sakura. 
As someone mentioned, I think Naruto would have become an Obito. The series already confirmed that. 
I highly doubt he would get with Hinata after that. 

 

Neji's death was not functionally well done, and there were no layers to it. First of all, any deeper meaning to Neji's death was lost and invalidated when Kishi inexcusably said that Neji's death was simply for the sake of NH. Neji's death served no other purpose, and at face value Neji's character was emasculated by it. He died exactly like his father did, his death reinforced everything that his character was supposed to escape. Not only that, but had Neji's death served purpose in the first place, it would have been destroyed with the ending, where hinata did absolutely jack kitten to improve the Hyuuga clan. Neji's only purpose was so that Hinata can step over his corpse because she is a single minded waste of space that couldn't do anything but parrot the name of someone she never knew but was infatuated with. She was weak garbage, and Neji died because of it.

 

I love everything about what you said. Completely agree with every word.


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#36 Nate River

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:16 AM

Stick to the topic. It's now going on a page an half of stuff completely unrelated to the topic at hand. The OP brought an interesting what-if and almost every response is off-topic or sarcastic quips that don't even pretend to take the OP seriously.

 

And I hate to do this because the person who brought it up is new and hasn't been involved in the 10,000 other times this topic has come up...but the topic of Kishimoto's intent as it relates to pairings has managed to creep its way into almost every thread even remotely related to pairings and its needs to stop. Create a thread solely to that or leave in the debate thread; either is fine.

 

But for the love of God, please stop infesting ever f-ing thread with this subject. 



#37 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:23 AM

Considering Naruto thought the person responsible for him growing up as a orphan was a pretty cool guy, he'd probably forgive the git and be best mates with him no matter what, heck he'd probably push Hinata in his direction, because Sasuke needs to be happy right? Uchiha's are all just misunderstood, all that murder and death is because they love too much.

 

If you look at Naruto's history the only person he didn't forgive was Kaguya, and thought the best thing to say to his son was how she didn't have a heart....Madara, Orichimaru, Obito, etc were all cool, but Kaguya someone who actually showed emotion at one point was the only person he didn't think had a heart. You don't say that to a son no matter how ancient he may be.

You also notice that every opponent Naruto is able to forgive all happen to have something about them that he can personally relate to as "what if he went wrong" foils;

Haku - "weapon" with no real desires himself, existing solely to be used by Zabuza as he saw fit.

Gaara - Jinchuriki who gave into his anger and hatred because of the treatment of others.

Nagato - Same sensei and desire for an end to war.

Obito - similar team and what could happen if Sakura were killed by Sasuke,

Madara - "true peace".

Sasuke - "Brothers" who were "alone".


...but if you take away that relativity, Naruto shows he has NO problem taking down opponents. It's only due to plot shielding that he never actually kills a truly living being.

Zabuza - probably would have gone after him were it not for the sudden change of heart / "hidden feelings" that were brought out by Talk no Jutsu.

Gato - probably would have torn him apart had Zabuza not sacrificed himself to do so instead.

Orochimaru - Bridge, 'nuff said.

Kabuto - magical healing factor that kept him from being killed by the Rasengan. Otherwise, Naruto had no problem shoving it in his gut without hesitation.

Deidara - Was chasing him with a look of Kurama-fueled rage over Gaara's death and would have more than likely torn him apart had Kakashi not used Kamui and Deidara "killed himself".

Kakuzu - Had no problem risking his life to hit him with a half-finished technique. Again, plot armor by allowing Kakuzu to barely survive just so Kakashi could be the one to deliver the finishing blow.

Kaguya - Already mentioned.



 


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#38 AHK

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:32 AM

 

No, actually, what you say in explanation for why you put together something cannot functionally invalidate any of the other narrative functions an event has. You can dislike the choice, and that's perfectly valid, but you cannot say it invalidates anything. You cannot say "Neji's death served no other purpose", because narrative structure -demands- a moment like this, death or otherwise, and it demands a follow up moment where the character is functionally saved from darkness. That Kishimoto decided to put them here, when they already had the Pain Arc moment is telling of a set-up he is putting forward in 700. The point that he is trying to have Naruto recognize Hinata has always been there is a very telling difference from his initial reaction of her and even her later ones. That Neji's death completes his arc, dying for the people he loves, -cannot- be undertold. You cannot say he was emasculated for doing what his father did, because his father -chose- to die for who he loved, not out of duty. Hiashi was ready to die willingly, and his brother explicitly did not have to agree. 

 

You have a mirror in this moment, Hinata willing to die, but Neji choosing instead to die for the people he loved. That they parallel reinforces the point of freedom his father put forward, -that- is the takeaway. You are missing, ignoring, or twisting the takeaway if you are coming up with some other conclusion. 

 

The Hyuuga clan was already improving, and it was never Hinata's goal to fix the Hyuuga clan? I don't know what is your point with this argument. 

 

And then we have the diminishing of Hinata's reaction to Neji with the "Step over the corpse stuff" and later bashing which just shows your hatred of things, and that's a bit disappointing.

 

On the Sakura bit, have you considered that you never liked Sakura? Because if you are saying "I like Sakura, but I don't like the feelings she had for Sasuke", then you are saying "I don't like Sakura". The "weak bits" you refer are and always have been part of Sakura, have never gone anywhere. They weren't put at the forefront in the ending, they had relevance because they were significant in the moments that occurred. 

 

This is way off topic though. If you want more detail on the tearing apart of your argument, you can always make a post on the debate thread to my many take-aparts of posts there.

Your entire first three paragraphs are irrelevant. I can say that it invalidates everything, because it does. This is another one of those facts that you can't seem to grip, and it was word of mouth from Kishimoto himself. Neji did not die there out of some greater sense of purpose. He got sacrificed for the sake of a forced pairing that had zero buildup. He was, again, literally just a corpse for Hinata to step over to get closer to Naruto. Neji's father died because it was his place as a side branch member. He did not wish that for Neji, and yet Neji still died like a dog. He was emasculated because Kishi said he was. There also wasn't any "diminishing of her reaction" as that's exactly what she did.

 

The bold is probably your worst retort in lieu of any argument you never really had to begin with. I liked Sakura, along with Naruto, right up until they betrayed everything they were as per the narrative. I could just as easily argue that anyone that liked and excuses the ending and what Sakura became never really liked Sakura to begin with, given that she's just a pale, pathetic imitation of what she was (all of the preceding is actually fact and arguable), which I believe was my original point in response to the thread. Whether she lived or died at LOI, it wouldn't have mattered given the author killed her anyway, and Kishi didn't know how to write regardless.

 

The last statement is equal parts lol worthy as it is false.

 

Stick to the topic. It's now going on a page an half of stuff completely unrelated to the topic at hand. The OP brought an interesting what-if and almost every response is off-topic or sarcastic quips that don't even pretend to take the OP seriously.

 

And I hate to do this because the person who brought it up is new and hasn't been involved in the 10,000 other times this topic has come up...but the topic of Kishimoto's intent as it relates to pairings has managed to creep its way into almost every thread even remotely related to pairings and its needs to stop. Create a thread solely to that or leave in the debate thread; either is fine.

 

But for the love of God, please stop infesting ever f-ing thread with this subject. 

Sure thing


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#39 NarutoUzumaki01

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:44 PM

How in my opinion Naruto shoud've reacted to that? Kill Sasuke in fury, then mentaly broken and story is derailed, there is nothing right in killing one of main character + love intrest of MC.

How Kishimoto would write him? He would question Sasuke, but it's all would result only is come bs like "you should be responsible for your actions" at Sakura's part that she tried to kill beloved Uchiha of mangaka. That said, I doubt Kishimoto's writing skills, like REALLY.



#40 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:15 PM

How in my opinion Naruto shoud've reacted to that? Kill Sasuke in fury, then mentaly broken and story is derailed, there is nothing right in killing one of main character + love intrest of MC.

How Kishimoto would write him? He would question Sasuke, but it's all would result only is come bs like "you should be responsible for your actions" at Sakura's part that she tried to kill beloved Uchiha of mangaka. That said, I doubt Kishimoto's writing skills, like REALLY.

True other writers with far more talent and brains have done it better like this one on DA in which Sasuke is captured and well...

 

https://nekoni.devia...age-16-68716953

 

That's what he does.






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