Charger76

@Charger76 At this point, I'm pretty sure all of she say it's a lie and she is just there to annoy and enrage people, there really is no point to her actions other than to annoy and enrage others who differ with her, she continues on arguing even when it isn't a debate thread and ask for proff and when it's given to her she says is wrong or twist the facts, so no she just want to get people banned or is an atention seeker.

I hate to think that, but as it's gone on idk anymore. Maybe not on all of that but her intended purposes. When I joined I liked the unbiased reality driven responses. I didn't always agree but I understood the thoughts. She was a NS fan that didn't hate the ending, ok that's fine. But........just so much effort on small, minute unimportant details over a long course of time. While she has every right, she combats every single little detail. It's mind boggling. She was on this site before as a guest as she said, so she knew what she kind of responses she was gonna get. No disrespect but I just don't understand the goal

@Analyzer. Honest question, no hate coming from it. Why are you on this site? You have every right to be here, you have done no bashing or hate, but I don't see what satisfaction you get from being on this site. Is it just for the debates? You oppose just about every post in any thread, which again is your view, which is fine, but like I'm honestly just not seeing what you are doing. Some comments don't have any continuation or importance to them, like mine on that parallel, but you responded with a rebuttle. Like the parallel was literally made in the manga for a purpose as a red herring as Kishi said. No other reasons. Yet you defended the NH parallel between the couples which was in-canon as not the intended purpose. As you said, parallels can't hold that much weight, but you still couldn't let NS have the parallel that was intended for them as a reason to mislead. Edit: you are corect in the fact that the focus of the parallel was more on Kushina and sakura rather than the couple themselves, although there are parallels between them as well

I guess just what are your motives for this site? Is your goal to get people to move on or "see the light"?

Also just a quick comment on the ending. You defend it and like it, that's fine your opinion. I do not, others do not as well, that is fine. I think there are other problems besides pairings (I include the war arc as part of the ending that I see flaws in). I also hate how much he pushed the misleading of NS towards the end when he should have focusing on branching off that thought to create a clearer ending like endings should have, although I figured when Neji died they wouldn't kill a character and not have them get together. Back to my point as I got off topic. Not everything is going to be liked, not everything is going to be disliked. Even low rated movies have people who enjoy them, and vice Versa with top rated movies. But aside from my opinion, I do think it shows something on how the ending went when nearly half of your fanbase disliked how it ended. You are not going to please everyone, but your goal should be to please as many as you can. The fact that a good chunk of your fanbase dislikes the ending showed there are indeed flaws within the product that you put out.

I am not a writer, I do not draw, I don't create stories, I am a business student. There are clear flaws that go outside shipping. There are flaws within the ships themselves. There have been poor business decisions within the manga/anime/outside the fact that frustrated a lot of people. Ultimately with something that plays off the opinions of others, what becomes objective is the end result. That end result was with a lot of people dissatisfied with their product. A lot pleased, but if it's 50/50 while in your opinion it is a good ending, in an overview it is controversial and cannot be classified as good from a distance. Also while I hate negativity and bashing to reach a point, the people on this site have put in a lot of time to this series throughout their life, they have a right to be frustrated at the very least. NS had the most time interacting of any two people in the entire series. We saw them interact the most out of anyone. We grew up with them, we liked the way they interacted, we saw how much they cared for each other. Then it kind of just cut off at the end.

Also I do think you have confirmatory bias to some degree, like ThroughWithLove stated. Ok, the ending happened, you are mad like a lot of people are. You go a month, you hurt a friends feelings, you feel bad. You then look at yourself and say "what did I do wrong" "what did I miss". So you go back through the story with the ending in mind. You take each NH moment thus forth and give it more meaning. Then you take NS moments and search for flaws in them. Your confirmatory bias is you searching for a reason for NH/SS to occur as opposed to the other results because you want to believe it ended the best way possible. Everyone has confirmatory bias to some degree. You use hindsight to prove yourself wrong for supporting NS as the end game. It's easy to see faults in your initial reasoning when you have hindsight. Me personally, as I look at more and more stuff on naruto, my NS resolve wavers, but actually ends up stronger at the end. Now I admit I have confirmatory bias, I dislike the end pairings because imo NH is boring and SS is flawed and weakens sakuras development or at least potential development, so I'm not gonna look as much at the stuff that focuses on them. So naturally there will be some degree of bias.

Kishi saying he wanted to mislead proves enough that he did give reasons to assume NS had a possibility of end game potential. It's ok for you to like the ending and end up ok with the result, but it is also ok to dislike it

Yeah. Plus the minato/hinata parallel is non existent outside of them both being more quiet. It was just a "red herring" for NS, not a parallel for NH

I understand the frustration, but let's keep things respectful. She may have a differring opinion that she is very strongly defending that we may not agree with, but she hasn't been rude

Wow it's the same for me. I honestly wasn't invested in any ships at all until after it was over. I just thought I was naturally progressing to NS, so when Naruto ended I was shocked (at the overall way it ended too not just the pairings) and that's when I really started to appreciate them as a pair. I just like good storytelling. NS is the only pair I "ship" in anything and I didn't even when it was ongoing lol

I don't understand why it is so popular either. Romance manga where they are the two main characters and have more relationship development before he turns to the darkness, I understand. Battle manga where it is a secondary ship and other relationships develop better and hold more presidence, no. Not really anyone's fault. SP and Kishi definitely didn't mean for it to become popular, but people have fantasies. Plus people like how their relationship is different. I don't. I like positivity and dynamic/pleasing relationships like NS. NH is boring and their isn't a big friendship there, SS doesn't have enough shown affecton and things are left in the air. We haven't seen sakura unhappy at this point in boruto but if they suddenly have sakura act that way, there would be no surprises if they went that direction. I always thought of Sakura as someone who wanted affection But it is fiction.

They'll address the relationship more thoroughly in another arc I'm sure. Happily every after kind of thing or plot twist. Gaiden was something but it still kept the relationship open to be resolved later kind of thing. That was more for sarada.

But for SS, In reality if there is no hinata then it is NS happening. So people put a little too much importance on the ship as a whole and them being soulmates. (SS). They write sasuke where it could be SS,SK, or badass solo sasuke and there would be no surprises. Actually even with NH, those other two choices are more sasuke like and better for the story (imo) as he can travel with Karin, or be a solo character that comes into save the day. That's kind of what he does now, but he doesn't have a family he doesn't have much contact with. There's just too much pain in that relationship pre/during/post shippuden for me

^ I would have loved that rewrite to be canon ThroughWithLove. Yeah you definitely need some resolutions, then again Kishi missed a few in the canon anyway, but it would have worked out. And like I have said in another post it would complete the series and character development arcs very nicely. Also like you said the main point of resolution with SS would be sakura because while in part one sasuke stated he cared for her (never said romantically, he was also referring to his entire team) you could easily write him off in part 2 as not being interested in sakura until the head poke. He did say naruto was his last and only friend a few chapters earlier. So it would be sakura getting over sasuke. So you would need sakura to get over that i.e. "Discover her true feelings" in your version

Yeah I'm also not a big fan of the whole, "girls can't change their feelings, yet guys can" thing that seemed to happen a little at the end. Still not a fan of the rivalry being the reason for his love thing too but it's canon. Idk I just don't like overall how they played narutos feelings as not true feelings yet he actually had in manga reasons to love sakura.

Haha I'm over most things but SS still frustrates me so much and their fans reasonings for their ship can be hypocritcal and can stretch some manga symbolism (obviously it is canon though so technically they weren't wrong). Plus they seem to be a more aggressive base (although everyone has aggressive and non aggressive people in it) and lose their kitten on such small moments. Like some of the boruto and gaiden kitten and how they turn some things to mean the family's ultimate love confuses me.

She hasn't really shown anything to assume she is miserable, but she was dealt a tough hand. She is taking his long years of absence decently well. I don't like it because I like sakura as a character and these troubles make me think If NS happened none of this would be a problem, but then again that's an assumption and they created the story like this for a reason (to create interest). Gaiden gave the family a boost, at least between father and daughter. I'm sure more family stuff will be covered now that he manga has gotten past the boruto movie.

Also SS fans saying narutos apology is for keeping sasuke away for missions is rediculous as you guys know because it was sasuke choice to this. Naruto literally just asked him to stay in the villiage moments before. Sasuke pretty much created the mission himself because he was the only one who can track the enemy he is searching for. I think naruto apologized more for the situation sakura is in in general

I can agree with some of your points but now I do think you are giving Kishi and SS a little too much credit. Not everything is gonna be perfect and some NS bias is gonna crowd some judgement on rational opinions, but to say there wasn't issues with the end, not even just pairings is a little flawed. Like you, I don't like SS. I understand it isn't a romance manga blah blah, but I do not agree there was enough positive moments that constitute SS, especially for the magnitude these very important characters had in the story. Side characters are one thing, but Sasuke and Sakura, no. There were only a few in part one and even then they weren't anything that showed "love" aside from teamwork that rationalizes saskura undying love for sasuke. And in part two there was only the very end.

I agree the cannon pairings were not out of nowhere and were not that forced, but no doubt Kishi could have greatly reduced the bitterness from fans and kept a lot more, had he dove into more of these issues to set a clearer path and rationalize it better. So Sakura would be a bad women for leaving sasuke to go to naruto? Ok then is naruto bad for giving up on sakura, the person he loved throughout? Is saskue a bad man (besides the obvious villain part) for getting with girl his BF loved? (Probably poor examples)

I agree some people are a little too biased and one sided when in arguments, but they do have a basis for them and there are issues that were not discussed and were ignored. You'd think some of the post series novels would clear some of things up, but they didn't and in some cases added to the confusion. For me sakura hiden and gaiden did that. I was left wondering why they were even created.

Yeah the ATL doujin as of now is really good. I like it so far, it's probably what I'd want the cannon to be had narusaku happened. As for boruto I'm trying to watch/read it, but without one if my favorite parts being naruto and sakura interactions, it's getting a little tough. I don't hate the characters though. Except for the OOC original characters and their poor designs. Not sure why they went the naruto and sasuke being terrible fathers rout. Feel like they aren't even making the winning endgame shippers happy because of that lol