54175 replies to this topic

[Nostradamus]

just the fact that anyone even thinks that Sakura-Chan actually had sex with Sasuke makes me want to go on a John Wick like murder spree. The thought sickens me.

 

Did you see what came out? Cause if you did, then you'll realize that never happened.

[Kagomaru]

 

Did you see what came out? Cause if you did, then you'll realize that never happened.

Seriously, even the SasuSaku camp has difficult time convincing themselves of it these days.  Either Sakura artificially inseminated herself or, more likely, she's the defacto caretaker of Sasuke and Karin's love child since Sarada looks nothing like her and has no recessive traits that would even indicate that she was Sakura's daughter. You can't even cite Sarada's intelligence as a trait she inherited from Sakura because Karin was also incredibly intelligent.

[Kasimir38]

In addition to the usual attitude of shippers, everyone seems to be reluctant to criticize any couple because they'll just deflect to "It's canon, it was the author's decision." Uh, yeah. That doesn't necessarily mean it was the right decision to make. "Author's decision" is an excuse to let them get away with anything.

 

Next I need to ask, if the roles of Hinata and Sakura were reversed, where it was Hinata who hugged him, Hinata who cried for his struggles, the girl Naruto made some kind of POAL to, where Hinata was compared to Kushina, and Hinata who saved Naruto via CPR...and he wound up with Sakura, would they deem that acceptable?

 

Yeah, Author's decision didn't make any sense, how about that. I already hear it: "You are just a bad loser and can't accept the ending, that's how pathetic you are" - well what are you doing here, then? All the NH shippers go with: The end justifies the means, right? You basically bashed Sakura constantly so even Kishimoto started to deny her importance, and now you got what you wanted. Happy? Nah.

The sad truth is, Hinata had a crush on Naruto, and Sakura didn't (or did, or watever). So...- if she would cry over Naruto, or hug him, you would know for sure that she loved him. Sakura on the other hand... was always distracted by distant Sasuke-memories Kishimoto added because otherwise she would be a "bad woman". If it was Sakura having a crush on Naruto and Hinata being his friend, I am sure everyone would still support Hinata.

[DrK]

Sakura on the other hand... was always distracted by distant Sasuke-memories Kishimoto added because otherwise she would be a "bad woman". If it was Sakura having a crush on Naruto and Hinata being his friend, I am sure everyone would still support Hinata.

She was an awful woman in the Land of Iron. She did nothing but kitten with both of them. She needed to be fully committed to one, even if it was Sasuke. That would have made the story better. Because Kishimoto wasn't skilled or dedicated enough to pull off a complex romantic situation. Sakura should have just stopped loving Sasuke and started to love Naruto and just stuck with that. Or she should have loved only Sasuke the whole way.

Edited by DrK, 16 April 2018 - 07:44 PM.

[jak123]

She was an awful woman in the Land of Iron. She did nothing but kitten with both of them. She needed to be fully committed to one, even if it was Sasuke. That would have made the story better. Because Kishimoto wasn't skilled or dedicated enough to pull off a complex romantic situation. Sakura should have just stopped loving Sasuke and started to love Naruto and just stuck with that. Or she should have loved only Sasuke the whole way.

But the thing about Sakura in the Land of Iron. You could see it as her doing all this for Naruto. She wanted to stop him from obsessing over bringing Sasuke back. 

[Kagomaru]

But the thing about Sakura in the Land of Iron. You could see it as her doing all this for Naruto. She wanted to stop him from obsessing over bringing Sasuke back. 

More importantly, she was willing to risk the potential fallout of their friendship and bear the weight of his hatred and resentment being directed towards her for killing Sasuke just so that he wouldn't die to fulfill his promise(which had a good chance of happening since Naruto always holds back on Sasuke). It's not that dissimilar to that moment during the Chuunin Exams when she was about to raise her hand so that Naruto wouldn't have his dream crushed. And in both instances, she didn't give a single flip about Sasuke when she made her decision,as Naruto's well-being was her main priority.

 

So,I don't personally agree with the assertion that she was "awful" in the Land of Iron.

Edited by Kagomaru, 17 April 2018 - 04:37 AM.

[DrK]

But she _didn't_ kill Sasuke. Or even actually try to. And her failure to do so had nothing to do with Naruto. It would have been one thing if she did knife him and it was useless as Kabuto had said it would be. Or if she failed to kill him because of the effect it would have on Naruto. But neither of those was the case. The whole arc is just the beginning of the end of Sakura as a character with any real agency.

 

I agree that her decision making was admirable, even though leaving her comrades unconscious in enemy territory was pretty stupid. But a mere intention is not the same as having actual conviction. Which she did have at the H&E and other places. But she was cannibalized by Kishi.

Edited by DrK, 17 April 2018 - 03:38 AM.

[gamma]

I wish we'd seen more serious aggression from Sakura that didn't have anything to do with comic relief.

 

A Sakura that isn't afraid to spill some blood and break some bones for her friends if she had to.

[KClaws_2]

Seriously, even the SasuSaku camp has difficult time convincing themselves of it these days.  Either Sakura artificially inseminated herself or, more likely, she's the defacto caretaker of Sasuke and Karin's love child since Sarada looks nothing like her and has no recessive traits that would even indicate that she was Sakura's daughter. You can't even cite Sarada's intelligence as a trait she inherited from Sakura because Karin was also incredibly intelligent.

Or...maybe Sasuke enlisted the help of a secret organization, gathered Karin's DNA, and when Sakura was going in for a flu-shot, instead gave her a retrovirus that overwrote her DNA with Karin's, so she did give birth to Sarada, but biologically speaking she is actually Karin's daughter!

 

...Yeah, I totally stole this from Batman Beyond.

 

She was an awful woman in the Land of Iron. She did nothing but kitten with both of them. She needed to be fully committed to one, even if it was Sasuke. That would have made the story better. Because Kishimoto wasn't skilled or dedicated enough to pull off a complex romantic situation. Sakura should have just stopped loving Sasuke and started to love Naruto and just stuck with that. Or she should have loved only Sasuke the whole way.

There were so many ways to handle this, and Kishimoto chose the wrong way. If a decision couldn't have been made then, I would have had the two talk, Sakura saying she IS falling for Naruto, but isn't over Sasuke as of yet. Naruto's resolve to bring Sasuke back strengthens, citing he wants Sakura to truly be happy and have a choice in the matter. Granted, that's still a bit messy, but it could work.

NH keep pointing to this scene saying it sunk NS, to which I ask then why did they do that stupid sub-plot with Kushina? And the CPR? Why did the anime keep promoting them? Why even make Road to Ninja? If none of that stuff happened, they would have a point.

[jak123]

Or...maybe Sasuke enlisted the help of a secret organization, gathered Karin's DNA, and when Sakura was going in for a flu-shot, instead gave her a retrovirus that overwrote her DNA with Karin's, so she did give birth to Sarada, but biologically speaking she is actually Karin's daughter!

 

...Yeah, I totally stole this from Batman Beyond.

 

There were so many ways to handle this, and Kishimoto chose the wrong way. If a decision couldn't have been made then, I would have had the two talk, Sakura saying she IS falling for Naruto, but isn't over Sasuke as of yet. Naruto's resolve to bring Sasuke back strengthens, citing he wants Sakura to truly be happy and have a choice in the matter. Granted, that's still a bit messy, but it could work.

NH keep pointing to this scene saying it sunk NS, to which I ask then why did they do that stupid sub-plot with Kushina? And the CPR? Why did the anime keep promoting them? Why even make Road to Ninja? If none of that stuff happened, they would have a point.

SO MUCH THIS. If that was supposed to sink the ship, then why did we have the most important comparison happen for Sakura and not Hinata? The war has such symbolism. Her saving Naruto while Sasuke "killed" her. There's so much that makes NH and SS complete nonsense.

Edited by jak123, 17 April 2018 - 05:33 AM.

[tricksie]

I wish we'd seen more serious aggression from Sakura that didn't have anything to do with comic relief.

 

A Sakura that isn't afraid to spill some blood and break some bones for her friends if she had to.

 

More importantly, she was willing to risk the potential fallout of their friendship and bear the weight of his hatred and resentment being directed towards her for killing Sasuke just so that he wouldn't die to fulfill his promise(which had a good chance of happening since Naruto always holds back on Sasuke). It's not that dissimilar to that moment during the Chuunin Exams when she was about to raise her hand so that Naruto wouldn't have his dream crushed. And in both instances, she didn't give a single flip about Sasuke when she made her decision,as Naruto's well-being was her main priority.

 

So,I don't personally agree with the assertion that she was "awful" in the Land of Iron.

I feel like the whole thing in the Land of Iron is like the park bench. It is a scene that sets the stage for something else to happen...yet in the end it never does.

 

Both situations are an exchange of emotions — confessions of sorts — while hiding behind other messages. And both scenes should have had a resolution of some kind at the end — a true confession — where they are talking to each other, sharing their true feelings and neither one hiding behind disguises or other reasons. A scene about the two of them, where Sasuke is not at all involved. 

 

Personally, I think Naruto was the crappy one in the Land of Iron. He saves his harshest words of THE WHOLE SERIES for Sakura, right after she says she loves him. It doesn't matter if he believed her or even returned those feelings. It's a terrible thing to do to someone you say you care sooo much about. He didn't even treat Obito that way, and that dude killed his father.

 

He was so completely out of character in the Land of Iron (like in the park bench scene), it almost begs another scene to correct it. But...that will never be....

[DrK]

Personally, I think Naruto was the crappy one in the Land of Iron..

Oh yeah, he sucked as well. He was horrible. That was so OOC. Like I know that I am important to you and that we share an important bond, but I'm prepared to hate you because the sounds coming out of your mouth are at odds with what I perceive to be the truth. What an ass.

 

I just don't like what Sakura did either. It was all Kakashi levels of useless.

[James S Cassidy]

 

I feel like the whole thing in the Land of Iron is like the park bench. It is a scene that sets the stage for something else to happen...yet in the end it never does.

 

Both situations are an exchange of emotions — confessions of sorts — while hiding behind other messages. And both scenes should have had a resolution of some kind at the end — a true confession — where they are talking to each other, sharing their true feelings and neither one hiding behind disguises or other reasons. A scene about the two of them, where Sasuke is not at all involved. 

 

Personally, I think Naruto was the crappy one in the Land of Iron. He saves his harshest words of THE WHOLE SERIES for Sakura, right after she says she loves him. It doesn't matter if he believed her or even returned those feelings. It's a terrible thing to do to someone you say you care sooo much about. He didn't even treat Obito that way, and that dude killed his father.

 

He was so completely out of character in the Land of Iron (like in the park bench scene), it almost begs another scene to correct it. But...that will never be....

Naruto in Land of Iron still pisses me off. He cared so much about Sasuke that it was pratically obsession where nothing and noone else mattered. We all think Sakura is bad, but this part Naruto was just absolutly ridiculous. Really, passing out because someone said Sasuke had to die? Please.

Worse still is when the Pro-Nh fans love this scene because "Naruto finally told off that kitten Sakura and knew the truth about her. You can't lie to Naruto and get away with it." Yet, so many lied to Naruto for years and he fell for it hook-line-and sinker. The scene also becomes worse when later in the series look like he was lying to Sakura the whole god damn time and again, the American fanbase pays no attention to that. The pro-enders just wank the Pein Arc scene with Hinata and this scene.
 

 

She was an awful woman in the Land of Iron. She did nothing but kitten with both of them. She needed to be fully committed to one, even if it was Sasuke. That would have made the story better. Because Kishimoto wasn't skilled or dedicated enough to pull off a complex romantic situation. Sakura should have just stopped loving Sasuke and started to love Naruto and just stuck with that. Or she should have loved only Sasuke the whole way.

Yeah she was. The Land of Iron arc really just kitten on team 7 as a whole. Sasuke looked like a true psychopath, Kakashi looked like he was incompetant, Naruto was so Sasuke obsessed that the only thing missing was him admitting he himself was in love with Sasuke, and Sakura was shown to be so completely useless that it pratially gave NH ammunition against us.

I have just never seen a writer kitten on his characters so hard. If there is any a time that you can see Kishimoto just give up on this series, it was right there. We should have known that this is where the series went down hill indefinitly.

[Phantom_999]

Yeah truth be told it was an OOC fest that was badly conceived AND executed. Sure there was a lot of emotional turmoil but everything in that arc was just out right idiotic when I think about it and the plot points were poorly excused. REALLY, all it was is a Sasuke jack-off, there's no other way to describe it. Sakura couldn't kill him because of her shallow emotionally stunted crush, and her best plan was to stab him with a poisoned kunai to which Sasuke was immune to poison already. Naruto fainted like a little B!#%^ just because his "sexy boy toy" was  having EVERYONE after his head before Naruto can "make love to him". And lastly, Kakashi was going to kill Sasuke but was SOOOO INEFFECTUAL AND HALF-ARSED about it you'd think he wanted to fail   

Edited by Phantom_999, 21 April 2018 - 12:02 AM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

 

I feel like the whole thing in the Land of Iron is like the park bench. It is a scene that sets the stage for something else to happen...yet in the end it never does.

 

Both situations are an exchange of emotions — confessions of sorts — while hiding behind other messages. And both scenes should have had a resolution of some kind at the end — a true confession — where they are talking to each other, sharing their true feelings and neither one hiding behind disguises or other reasons. A scene about the two of them, where Sasuke is not at all involved. 

 

Personally, I think Naruto was the crappy one in the Land of Iron. He saves his harshest words of THE WHOLE SERIES for Sakura, right after she says she loves him. It doesn't matter if he believed her or even returned those feelings. It's a terrible thing to do to someone you say you care sooo much about. He didn't even treat Obito that way, and that dude killed his father.

 

He was so completely out of character in the Land of Iron (like in the park bench scene), it almost begs another scene to correct it. But...that will never be....

"I hate people who lie to themselves!" - says the one who is lying to himself HARD.

 

Naruto in Land of Iron still pisses me off. He cared so much about Sasuke that it was pratically obsession where nothing and noone else mattered. We all think Sakura is bad, but this part Naruto was just absolutly ridiculous. Really, passing out because someone said Sasuke had to die? Please.

Worse still is when the Pro-Nh fans love this scene because "Naruto finally told off that kitten Sakura and knew the truth about her. You can't lie to Naruto and get away with it." Yet, so many lied to Naruto for years and he fell for it hook-line-and sinker. The scene also becomes worse when later in the series look like he was lying to Sakura the whole god damn time and again, the American fanbase pays no attention to that. The pro-enders just wank the Pein Arc scene with Hinata and this scene.
 

 

Yeah she was. The Land of Iron arc really just kitten on team 7 as a whole. Sasuke looked like a true psychopath, Kakashi looked like he was incompetant, Naruto was so Sasuke obsessed that the only thing missing was him admitting he himself was in love with Sasuke, and Sakura was shown to be so completely useless that it pratially gave NH ammunition against us.

I have just never seen a writer kitten on his characters so hard. If there is any a time that you can see Kishimoto just give up on this series, it was right there. We should have known that this is where the series went down hill indefinitly.

And yet, out of all of them, Sasuke is the only one who isn't really surprising in how he acts. If anything, he's probably the most consistent one at that point. It was only after the whole conveniently revived Itachi and vs. Kabuto, followed by meeting the four Hokage that he suddenly became inconsistent.

[Nostradamus]

Seriously, even the SasuSaku camp has difficult time convincing themselves of it these days.  Either Sakura artificially inseminated herself or, more likely, she's the defacto caretaker of Sasuke and Karin's love child since Sarada looks nothing like her and has no recessive traits that would even indicate that she was Sakura's daughter. You can't even cite Sarada's intelligence as a trait she inherited from Sakura because Karin was also incredibly intelligent.

That's definitely Sasuke and Karin's kid, 100%. By the time his bosses told him what the ending was going to be, it was to late to draw new kids, so he just swapped the clothes and called it a day.

 

 

As for the whole Land of Iron thing. I say he wanted to show us that Sakura has moved on from Sasuke, but then he sort of back-paddled with Sai's idiotic interpretation of she wants to kill him because she loves him so much, yet her own actions dictate the opposite of that.

That explanation was poorly done, actually it was bad. So bad in fact that instead of readers understanding that by her own actions she's doing this for Naruto, some readers saw that and understood it as she's totally madly in love with Sasuke because she'll willing to kill him because Sai said she doesn't want to see Sasuke go further into the darkness.

Yet she went to Naruto first and told him she wanted to be with him (Naruto). And she only went to kill Sasuke after Naruto declared that he's the one madly in love with Sasuke because friendship power bs.

And then when she's about to kill Sasuke, she stops. So I guess she's not madly in love with Sasuke because she didn't kill him, but she's madly in love with Sasuke because she didn't kill him, but she's totally madly in love with him because she was willing to kill him. Oh God I need an aspirin.

Edited by Nostradamus, 17 April 2018 - 06:41 PM.

[griff142]

"I hate people who lie to themselves!" - says the one who is lying to himself HARD.
 


And yet, out of all of them, Sasuke is the only one who isn't really surprising in how he acts. If anything, he's probably the most consistent one at that point. It was only after the whole conveniently revived Itachi and vs. Kabuto, followed by meeting the four Hokage that he suddenly became inconsistent.

Sasuke is always a person who is easily manipulated by people and their ideals, so to me he was always consistent because he couldn't think for himself. The only time he had his own idea was really at the end when he wanted to control the world and it make it in his image but I don't know if I should count it because it was similar to Madara's. All I know is that Sasuke was never original in anything he did. To me, he doesn't deserve his popularity.

[griff142]

That's definitely Sasuke and Karin's kid, 100%. By the time his bosses told him what the ending was going to be, it was to late to draw new kids, so he just swapped the clothes and called it a day.
 
 
As for the whole Land of Iron thing. I say he wanted to show us that Sakura has moved on from Sasuke, but then he sort of back-paddled with Sai's idiotic interpretation of she wants to kill him because she loves him so much, yet her own actions dictate the opposite of that.
That explanation was poorly done, actually it was bad. So bad in fact that instead of readers understanding that by her own actions she's doing this for Naruto, some readers saw that and understood it as she's totally madly in love with Sasuke because she'll willing to kill him because Sai said she doesn't want to see Sasuke go further into the darkness.
Yet she went to Naruto first and told him she wanted to be with him (Naruto). And she only went to kill Sasuke after Naruto declared that he's the one madly in love with Sasuke because friendship power bs.
And then when she's about to kill Sasuke, she stops. So I guess she's not madly in love with Sasuke because she didn't kill him, but she's madly in love with Sasuke because she didn't kill him, but she's totally madly in love with him because she was willing to kill him. Oh God I need an aspirin.

You are going to need something stronger than aspirin to deal with that mess. She should given up the silly crush up by that point and kick Sasuke's butt all over the place. Instead of a poison knife, she should have sent a chakra enhanced punch to his face and send him across The Land of Iron. The laughs I would have had.

[Kagomaru]

"I hate people who lie to themselves!" - says the one who is lying to himself HARD.

 

And yet, out of all of them, Sasuke is the only one who isn't really surprising in how he acts. If anything, he's probably the most consistent one at that point. It was only after the whole conveniently revived Itachi and vs. Kabuto, followed by meeting the four Hokage that he suddenly became inconsistent.

Yet Sasuke, ironically, has been speaking the most sense about the entire situation regarding Naruto's mission to "retrieve" him .

 

"Why are you people insisting I'm your friend?   How many times do I have to keep trying to kill you until you understand that I care nothing about you guys, except maybe Naruto? For god's sake, I was going to let you idiots die when fighting Madara and Kaguya and yet you still delude yourself into thinking that I give a flying crap about you or the village, of which, I never had any emotional attachment with because I never cared about duty and companionship after my family was murdered?"

[VanitasDS76491]

Or...maybe Sasuke enlisted the help of a secret organization, gathered Karin's DNA, and when Sakura was going in for a flu-shot, instead gave her a retrovirus that overwrote her DNA with Karin's, so she did give birth to Sarada, but biologically speaking she is actually Karin's daughter!
 
...Yeah, I totally stole this from Batman Beyond.
 

There were so many ways to handle this, and Kishimoto chose the wrong way. If a decision couldn't have been made then, I would have had the two talk, Sakura saying she IS falling for Naruto, but isn't over Sasuke as of yet. Naruto's resolve to bring Sasuke back strengthens, citing he wants Sakura to truly be happy and have a choice in the matter. Granted, that's still a bit messy, but it could work.
NH keep pointing to this scene saying it sunk NS, to which I ask then why did they do that stupid sub-plot with Kushina? And the CPR? Why did the anime keep promoting them? Why even make Road to Ninja? If none of that stuff happened, they would have a point.

Actually that batman beyond thing makes alot of sense now. Now all those ns scenes and plot points are just wasting our time but there are still better than NH scenes that are so forced.
  

Oh yeah, he sucked as well. He was horrible. That was so OOC. Like I know that I am important to you and that we share an important bond, but I'm prepared to hate you because the sounds coming out of your mouth are at odds with what I perceive to be the truth. What an ass.
 
I just don't like what Sakura did either. It was all Kakashi levels of useless.

ya kage summit was the start of the low point of Naruto starting when naruto tries to get the raikage to forgive sasuke, and naruto thinks after sasuke attacked his brother he's going to listen to him and I'm glad ay didn't listen to naruto. From there naruto got worse only saving points for him were meeting his mom and befriending Kurama.