31585 replies to this topic

[Bail o' Lies]

Naruto could have ended with The Last. I don't see why Kishi couldn't solve everything in the manga and had to make a story about the third generation.

It wasn't Kishi decision to make a sequel. Naruto at the time was SP breadwinner, and once Shounen Jump biggest international seller. It's why they order Naruto to keep going with the War arc. So when kishi final got sick and tired of it and wanted to end so he could do something else, they still wanted Naruto to continue. They figured the best way for them to continue the franchise without kishi was for Naruto to have a kid and just continue on with a sequel. SP because of their obsession with Hinata wanted her to be the mother, and with the help of Kishi editors was finally able to convince him to do so. They were convince that if they did nH they wouldn't need kishi since nH is soo popular internationally that the sequel would be a success without him. Then reality hit and all they are doing all the shenanigans we are seeing.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 March 2017 - 12:03 PM.

[T XD]

Naruto could have ended with The Last. I don't see why Kishi couldn't solve everything in the manga and had to make a story about the third generation.

Kishimoto isn't doing the sequel. SP is doing the sequel which bring money to their pocket. As we see, the series got given up for fan services and, thus naturally, the series got bad.

I don't like to see great potentials wasted.

Edited by T XD, 26 March 2017 - 11:46 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

Kishimoto isn't doing the sequel. SP is doing the sequel which bring money to their pocket. As we see, the series got given up for fan services and, thus naturally, the series got bad.
I don't like to see great potentials wasted.

That seems to happen with alot of series now a day. Kishi is what toriyama was during gt right.

Edited by VanitasDS76491, 26 March 2017 - 12:02 PM.

[Phantom_999]

Great Potential is ALWAYS WASTED with fictional works in the face of avarice

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 March 2017 - 01:09 PM.

[unhskikrforever]

Either he's lazy to do that or just incapable to do that.
And next gen story could sell especially for a popular series like naruto.

It wasn't Kishi decision to make a sequel. Naruto at the time was SP breadwinner, and once Shounen Jump biggest international seller. It's why they order Naruto to keep going with the War arc. So when kishi final got sick and tired of it and wanted to end so he could do something else, they still wanted Naruto to continue. They figured the best way for them to continue the franchise without kishi was for Naruto to have a kid and just continue on with a sequel. SP because of their obsession with Hinata wanted her to be the mother, and with the help of Kishi editors was finally able to convince him to do so. They were convince that if they did nH they wouldn't need kishi since nH is soo popular internationally that the sequel would be a success without him. Then reality hit and all they are doing all the shenanigans we are seeing.

Kishimoto isn't doing the sequel. SP is doing the sequel which bring money to their pocket. As we see, the series got given up for fan services and, thus naturally, the series got bad.

I don't like to see great potentials wasted.

No, the thing is, he mentioned that Sakura is like his wife himself. So naturally, he could have made NS the end-game and not NH. If we were to follow the story, NS could have ended up together. In what way would Hinata end up with Naruto? Of course NH happened only because they're polular in the west. But it all depended on Kishi. He's the writer after all. It's his manga, and not SP's. Sure, SP was in charge of the anime franchise and all, but as a writer, he didn't have to go with the majority. It's HIS story. If it's his decision to let NH end up together from the start, he could have given them a better relationship development throughout the story.

Anyway, we all know they're just trying go milk Naruto as much as possible. No surprise, really. It's been on-going for more than a decade. But T XD's right, Naruto could have ended up a better series if everything was solved in the manga. Although people complained that it went downhill after the Pein arc, it was still decent as a whole. The last two chapters were just unsatisfying to NS fans and also some Naruto fans.

Edited by unhskikrforever, 26 March 2017 - 12:50 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

No, the thing is, he mentioned that Sakura is like his wife himself. So naturally, he could have made NS the end-game and not NH. If we were to follow the story, NS could have ended up together. In what way would Hinata end up with Naruto? Of course NH happened only because they're polular in the west. But it all depended on Kishi. He's the writer after all. It's his manga, and not SP's. Sure, SP was in charge of the anime franchise and all, but as a writer, he didn't have to go with the majority. It's HIS story. If it's his decision to let NH end up together from the start, he could have given them a better relationship development throughout the story.

Anyway, we all know they're just trying go milk Naruto as much as possible. No surprise, really. It's been on-going for more than a decade. But T XD's right, Naruto could have ended up a better series if everything was solved in the manga. Although people complained that it went downhill after the Pein arc, it was still decent as a whole. The last two chapters were just unsatisfying to NS fans and also some Naruto fans.

Kishimoto may be the mangaka of Naruto and the ending was made by him, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't influenced/pressured by the people he works for. He may have made the ending nH, but it was SP and his editors that wanted it to be nH. From what people have said about him; Kishimoto is the type of person that eventually gives into pressure. Also he is not an mangaka doing it for the art, it is his job. He enjoys it of course but it is still his job. If his bosses wanted him to end Naruto up with one person or another he will do so. SP has a very close relationship with Shounen Jump and it parent company Shueisha. They could easily ask for them to help pressure kishi to have nH be the main pairing, especially if they bring up that "the majority of the international fanbase is nH."

 

The only people that like the ending were SS an nH fans, and even by how they are acting we can see how well that went.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

It wasn't Kishi decision to make a sequel. Naruto at the time was SP breadwinner, and once Shounen Jump biggest international seller. It's why they order Naruto to keep going with the War arc. So when kishi final got sick and tired of it and wanted to end so he could do something else, they still wanted Naruto to continue. They figured the best way for them to continue the franchise without kishi was for Naruto to have a kid and just continue on with a sequel. SP because of their obsession with Hinata wanted her to be the mother, and with the help of Kishi editors was finally able to convince him to do so. They were convince that if they did nH they wouldn't need kishi since nH is soo popular internationally that the sequel would be a success without him. Then reality hit and all they are doing all the shenanigans we are seeing.

Yep, it's why, after all the backlash from The Last, they quickly shoved Hinata back into the background, only showing one single mental image of her in Gaiden and barely showing her in the Boruto film (and even then, she's just the same old typical Hinata and not the supposedly uber-powerful kunoichi she was by the end of The Last), and even with the end of the anime, they tried to end it by making it look all about "bonds" by focusing a lot more on Iruka and don't even bother animating the actual wedding or Chapter 700 because they mow know how much backlash they would get.

It goes to show that they really ARE pretty heavily influenced by the fandom IF they're loud enough. Like NH may not have been the majority of the fandom like SP lied to Kishi about and even using fake polls as proof, but they WERE the loudest from what I've seen and read, even sending death threats over if NH didn't become canon. But now the huge backlash over the manga ending, The Last, Boruto and such have put quite a muffle over the NH extremists which is why, again, SP saw fit to quit trying to push NH and Hinata herself SO hard like they initially tried to. Of course, given they already were up to their chest in their own poo of an ending, they figured they may as well push out all the pointless fillers and such.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yep, it's why, after all the backlash from The Last, they quickly shoved Hinata back into the background, only showing one single mental image of her in Gaiden and barely showing her in the Boruto film (and even then, she's just the same old typical Hinata and not the supposedly uber-powerful kunoichi she was by the end of The Last), and even with the end of the anime, they tried to end it by making it look all about "bonds" by focusing a lot more on Iruka and don't even bother animating the actual wedding or Chapter 700 because they mow know how much backlash they would get.
It goes to show that they really ARE pretty heavily influenced by the fandom IF they're loud enough. Like NH may not have been the majority of the fandom like SP lied to Kishi about and even using fake polls as proof, but they WERE the loudest from what I've seen and read, even sending death threats over if NH didn't become canon. But now the huge backlash over the manga ending, The Last, Boruto and such have put quite a muffle over the NH extremists which is why, again, SP saw fit to quit trying to push NH and Hinata herself SO hard like they initially tried to. Of course, given they already were up to their chest in their own poo of an ending, they figured they may as well push out all the pointless fillers and such.

Ya I noticed that too form what I've heard and read about the anime ending. We don't even see them at the altar, saying their vows, the I do' s or the kiss after that, so why bother showing the wedding aside from wasting time which that's all they do now. Though I love that hinata Is still useless and does kitten all.

[T XD]

That seems to happen with alot of series now a day. Kishi is what toriyama was during gt right.

I didn't see Dragon Ball GT, but if Toriyama was like Kishimoto, Toriyama have fixed what he's done wrong and was back on track.

[VanitasDS76491]

I didn't see Dragon Ball GT, but if Toriyama was like Kishimoto, Toriyama have fixed what he's done wrong and was back on track.

In gt I heard toriyama only did some designs and supervise on the series, so that's can of what kishi is doing with bolt from what I've heard.

[T XD]

In gt I heard toriyama only did some designs and supervise on the series, so that's can of what kishi is doing with bolt from what I've heard.

Yeah. Kishimoto is a supervisor on the Bolt manga.

[VanitasDS76491]

Yeah. Kishimoto is a supervisor on the Bolt manga.

So he is toriyamaing this and bolt is the new gt, wonder if this series is still alive we'll get a naruto super, I'm still waiting for naruto kai that cuts out all the filler and reduces hinata even more.

[T XD]

So he is toriyamaing this and bolt is the new gt, wonder if this series is still alive we'll get a naruto super, I'm still waiting for naruto kai that cuts out all the filler and reduces hinata even more.

The series needs to stop. I hope it won't still go one after Boruto.

[VanitasDS76491]

The series needs to stop. I hope it won't still go one after Boruto.

Hopefully bolt will be the final thing to put a bullet in this series til they decide to reboot it and we'll see where that go if they learn from their mistakes or make it worse.

[Bail o' Lies]

Yep, it's why, after all the backlash from The Last, they quickly shoved Hinata back into the background, only showing one single mental image of her in Gaiden and barely showing her in the Boruto film (and even then, she's just the same old typical Hinata and not the supposedly uber-powerful kunoichi she was by the end of The Last), and even with the end of the anime, they tried to end it by making it look all about "bonds" by focusing a lot more on Iruka and don't even bother animating the actual wedding or Chapter 700 because they mow know how much backlash they would get.

It goes to show that they really ARE pretty heavily influenced by the fandom IF they're loud enough. Like NH may not have been the majority of the fandom like SP lied to Kishi about and even using fake polls as proof, but they WERE the loudest from what I've seen and read, even sending death threats over if NH didn't become canon. But now the huge backlash over the manga ending, The Last, Boruto and such have put quite a muffle over the NH extremists which is why, again, SP saw fit to quit trying to push NH and Hinata herself SO hard like they initially tried to. Of course, given they already were up to their chest in their own poo of an ending, they figured they may as well push out all the pointless fillers and such.

If you remember SP played the news of nH being canon very close to the chest till the ending happened. Remember everyone assumed that the trailers were implying that The Last was about NS and hinata was just there because SP are obsessed with her. Then once the ending happen they already had a special to show in how much Hinata's sister is devoted to her lined up. This lasted until the end of 2014 which made their retreat pretty quickly after they were finally able to go all out. The reason they had to pull back was due to poor reception of the Last and Hinata's fall.

 

SP always knew that nH wasn't very popular in Japan, but what they were hoping on was that mystical international fanbase of nH supporters (that apparently exist according to youtube reviewer) would make up for the lost of the Japanese fanbase. No international fanbase? Its back to the Japanese fanbase that didn't like nH before the ending, and has increasingly grown to hate it over the course of the past two years. Which is why the last episode was Iruka thinking of how far Naruto has grown instead of the big nH wedding everyone was thinking was going to happen. Because they know all they are going to get is more flak for it and more people in Japan just in general annoyed.

 

SP is still a company with Naruto as their biggest product, and its currently on the rocks. From what 4Life has said Boruto has been moved from Thursday after Pokemon (which gave Naruto a boost in ratings) to Wednesday the same time which another one of their anime failed. Naruto's animation team along with some of the writers and directors maybe hinata fans but that does not mean the entire company is. SP relies on Naruto (and now Boruto) to keep the company afloat if their other anime don't pan out. Which is why they put a director and a writer that have never work on Naruto in charge. They are less likely to be apart of the hinata fanatics that are pissing off their viewers.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 26 March 2017 - 11:50 PM.

[ultranx]

no, gt was made after the dragon ball z anime was finished, toriyama just did designs, the manga was finished long before that and gt never used the manga as canon, it used the anime, they even use non canon movies for its story(gogeta was a movie only fusion and they brought him back in gt in super saiyan 4 form, toriyama  never made gogeta, also cooler and other movie villains appeared in the super 17 arc escaping hell, that being the hell the anime came up with, hell wasn't done by toriyama til resurrection f), so toriyama wasn't forced into anything, completely different situation here.

 

also, why are you guys defending kishi again, did you forget how he attacked fans against the ending who supported ns and the kushina sakura paralels saying we "read it wrong" for 15 years? or how he constantly changes what he says in every interview?

Edited by ultranx, 26 March 2017 - 11:28 PM.

[VanitasDS76491]

no, gt was made after the dragon ball z anime was finished, toriyama just did designs, the manga was finished long before that and gt never used the manga as canon, it used the anime, they even use non canon movies for its story(gogeta was a movie only fusion and they brought him back in gt in super saiyan 4 form, toriyama  never made gogeta, also cooler and other movie villains appeared in the super 17 arc escaping hell, that being the hell the anime came up with, hell wasn't done by toriyama til resurrection f), so toriyama wasn't forced into anything, completely different situation here.
 
also, why are you guys defending kishi again, did you forget how he attacked fans against the ending who supported ns and the kushina sakura paralels saying we "read it wrong" for 15 years? or how he constantly changes what he says in every interview?

I'm not defend kitten, I'm just pointing out kishi is going gt with bolt not being too involed in the series like toriyama was with gt.

[ultranx]

I'm not defend kitten, I'm just pointing out kishi is going gt with bolt not being too involed in the series like toriyama was with gt.

like I said, completely different situation, kishi messed up his manga ending to have the boruto mess fit into it, toriyama did no such thing, the manga was not tampered even once to help gt, the manga was finished long before gt was even thought up. also no, however you say it boruto is not gt, gt was literally a goku fanservice series, gt literally stands for goku time, boruto is a next generation piece of crap that isn't even centered around naruto the main character anymore. gt was never a next generation thing, it just took place when pan, uub, and bulla were all older, all 3 were at the end of dbz in the manga. its literally just a series centered around goku fanservice that takes place a few years after the end of the dbz anime. it only ties into the anime, doesn't tie into the manga at all and toriyama didn't make his ending to support gt, that's just how he wanted to end it.

 

I really don't get why you guys love making kishi to be toriyama 2.0, they're 2 completely different writers and have nothing in common, kishi was just some guy who thought he could be another toriyama and copied everything from other series to make it good and it ended in a failure of an ending. at least toriyama was original and has his own unique story ideas and art style. and dragon ball isn't the only thing he did, he did chrono trigger the video game too, you gonna say chrono trigger is as bad as naruto too then? or dr. slump? or the dragon quest games he was involved in?

 

also no, toriyama never supervised gt, he only did designs, that is it, dragon ball super is the series he's actually supervising, seriously you guys could check this stuff on kanzenshuu but instead you guys get annoyed at anyone who defends dragon ball or toriyama and act like you know so much better than us fans, here:

http://www.kanzenshu...on/toriyama/#gt

see, here was toriyama's involvement in gt, title, designs and planet art, that's it, not supervising, so like I said, for the last time: Completely. Different. Situation.

Edited by ultranx, 27 March 2017 - 12:38 AM.

[VanitasDS76491]

like I said, completely different situation, kishi messed up his manga ending to have the boruto mess fit into it, toriyama did no such thing, the manga was not tampered even once to help gt, the manga was finished long before gt was even thought up. also no, however you say it boruto is not gt, gt was literally a goku fanservice series, gt literally stands for goku time, boruto is a next generation piece of crap that isn't even centered around naruto the main character anymore. gt was never a next generation thing, it just took place when pan, uub, and bulla were all older, all 3 were at the end of dbz in the manga. its literally just a series centered around goku fanservice that takes place a few years after the end of the dbz anime. it only ties into the anime, doesn't tie into the manga at all and toriyama didn't make his ending to support gt, that's just how he wanted to end it.
 
I really don't get why you guys love making kishi to be toriyama 2.0, they're 2 completely different writers and have nothing in common, kishi was just some guy who thought he could be another toriyama and copied everything from other series to make it good and it ended in a failure of an ending. at least toriyama was original and has his own unique story ideas and art style. and dragon ball isn't the only thing he did, he did chrono trigger the video game too, you gonna say chrono trigger is as bad as naruto too then? or dr. slump? or the dragon quest games he was involved in?
 
also no, toriyama never supervised gt, he only did designs, that is it, dragon ball super is the series he's actually supervising, seriously you guys could check this stuff on kanzenshuu but instead you guys get annoyed at anyone who defends dragon ball or toriyama and act like you know so much better than us fans, here:
http://www.kanzenshu...on/toriyama/#gt
see, here was toriyama's involvement in gt, title, designs and planet art, that's it, not supervising, so like I said, for the last time: Completely. Different. Situation.

I know,I'm just saying like gt, bolt is an unnecessary addition to lore of naruto or what's left of it that kaguya ruined. The closes one that's the next toriyama is oda. Toriyama also worked on the Dragon quest games.
Kishi stole from db, metal gear solid, star wars, yu yu hakuso among others.

[ultranx]

I know,I'm just saying like gt, bolt is an unnecessary addition to lore of naruto or what's left of it that kaguya ruined. The closes one that's the next toriyama is oda. Toriyama also worked on the Dragon quest games.
Kishi stole from db, metal gear solid, star wars, yu yu hakuso among others.

sorry then, yeah that we can agree on. sorry I just get annoyed whenever these kinda things come up since the last time that whole argument happened with ball of lies over this dragon ball/naruto mess. doesn't matter how low dragon ball gets, I think we can agree it will never be as bad as naruto and toriyama will always be better than copout kishi.

Edited by ultranx, 27 March 2017 - 01:24 AM.