Bail o' Lies

It just goes to show how the pro ending head cases will try to sell you anything to say what they got was successful when the evidence of Borutos failure as well as how its hurt the Naruto franchise as a whole is obvious.

I'm in a better mood today so to be fair. Boruto is likely an above average selling manga that might bring in some money. But the problem is, that's not what the companies wanted. They wanted Naruto numbers which is still one of the biggest manga in the world. So, its a failure, it is at best a disappointment.

The two bits that stood out to me were the digital sales, and we shouldn't compare Naruto-Boruto to Dragon Ball.

So, the guy tried to say that the sales were fine because they really all went to digital and those numbers are good. But didn't show these new numbers just leaving people with the impression they must be good. Just trust the Youtuber, Bro. When it wouldn't be at hard to show them. 30% is physical? Ok that is X. 3X+1/3X=the total*. Which the average being 100,000 is 333,334 or 330,000 to what I rounded it up. Now that's a decent number for a manga, but nowhere near Naruto's numbers in its prime. Also, digital sales percentage has not been 70% throughout Boruto's entire run. As digital sales had reached that level either this or last year. He doesn't go through and try to show how digital rise matches Boruto physical number's decline. Which it doesn't. Boruto just declined till it hit around 100,000 and was around that level for years. If he was right, that wouldn't be the case.

* 30% is the known 70% is missing and we are looking for the total. 70 is 2 30% and then a 10% left over. 10% would be a third of 30%. So 30%+30%+1/3X30%=70 then for total 30%+30%+30%+1/3X30%=100%. Of 3x+1/3X=Y.

10 years ago, Naruto was the closest IP Dragon Ball had to a peer in terms of sales. If someone were to say, 'that in certain years Naruto had even beat Dragon Ball in sales,' most people would find that believable. Now a days, that is consider completely absurd, apparently. What happened in the past ten years that caused such a shift? Well, for Dragon Ball, Toriyama got so embarrassed by Dragon Ball Evolution that he got himself involved in the IP again and revitalized it. For Naruto, a bad ending and a worse sequel. "But, no no no Naruto-Boruto is completely fine apparently." While all its contemporaries' sales have completely eclipse it, when it was once the King of International Sales.

Edit: Also, again overall notion of "its a sequel don't hold it up to the same standard of the original." The companies knew that sequel tend to perform worse than the original. That why when they were selling Boruto to the audience they were making it was to be seen as a continuation of Naruto; its Part Three. Also, they tried to make sure it was seen as continuous by doing such things as keeping the Naruto anime going till they were ready to switch over to Boruto. Having a movie to promote it. Finally releasing the manga about a year after the original ended. 

Well, before even watching it remember that Boruto will always be a disappointment because the companies that signed off on it were promised a return to Naruto's high selling glory days. What they got instead is at best a middling/above average/below average for WSJ manga, with an anime with OK sales, and most of the money was made from licensing distribution out to other countries because it was the sequel to Naruto. It would have been cancelled long ago if it was an original IP, but it survives because its a sequel to Naruto that brings in just enough money to not cancel it.

That said its clear they are not happy with it. The anime is still off the air and they never finished part one. While they clearly ordered Ikemoto to wrap up part one, as the manga would still be there with his pacing otherwise, and he clearly been order to pick up the pace in part two. Which I have seen people notice how bad the story is in part two because it isn't dragged out. Where before, they convince themselves it must be leading to something.

So, any one who goes, "its OK," to defend it. Can be answered by "they didn't want, 'its OK.' The companies wanted at the least Naruto's sales figures to continue with Boruto."

If the video is about digital sales vs physical sales. It is hard to often figure out how much digital sales are worth because most companies are reluctant to release their digital sales data. So physical sales are a good aggregate. For example, lets say physical sales are 90% and digital are 10%. So if 90 books sold physically then 10 were sold digitally; so 100 books were sold overall. Its the same reason people like to use Steam to show if a game is doing well or not. While not all people buy all their games on Steam enough do that it is seen as a good way to check.

Dear lord that avatar is ugly. Looks like a mix between a JoJo's stand and an Otsutsuki...So, it actually looks like it fits in Boruto. Naruto Explained, well that means the continuation of interest in Naruto-Boruto is important to the continuation of his channel and any money he may receive from it.

So the guy starts out with the volumes sales. I just want to point out there is more to Boruto's volume sales than just its volume sales. As it is important to remember Naruto's volume sales which average at what 2.1 million, but barely got 800,000 for it final volume its first week. Then Salad's gaiden had about 620,000. Then finally Boruto's started around 400,000 that declined till it eventually leveled out to around 100,000. If 100,000.is good for most manga that's nice, but the company are looking at, how far the IP has fallen. Which reminds me if he tries to say something like, "as a sequel, its ok on its own or something." Boruto was intended to be a continuation of both the IP and Naruto's story through his son. Like DragonBall Z is to Dragonball. Which is why one has to look at Naruto's sales as well. As they again, wanted those to continue with Boruto. To ignore Naruto and treat it as it own thing is admitting it is a failure.

He ask, if it so unpopular why is it still ongoing? Legacy of Naruto still means it makes money through distribution rights, and from what I recall when Kodaichi was fired they are under contract. They were given a contract to write a certain amount of chapters I think it was 60. When they hit that mark Ikemoto's contract was renewed his wasn't. It also what I suspect happened with the end of part one and the pacing of part two. They refused to extend Ikemoto's contract again when they didn't see improvements they desired. So he has the remaining chapters to finish his manga; which is about 40 chapters.

So he brings up that physical sales is outdate. Like I said an aggregate. So digital manga according to him makes up about 70% of sales in Japan. Let's see, if Boruto's 100,000 is 30%, Digital's 70% is around 230,000, and so total would be about 330,000 volume sales in Japan...Ok. Even that was the case for Boruto, that is again still far less than Naruto had in its prime. If physical sales were 1%, then it would be getting to where the company wanted its sales to be.

Also, Boruto's sales charts do not have a gradual decline that goes along with the rise of Digital sales. It falls till its sales stabilize around 100,000 and was around that for years. When it should continue to go down as more people buy it digitally.

You know, he brings up digital sales took off in 2014. Just proving that Naruto had the worse time to end. As it ended before streaming revitalized western interest in anime (so when Boruto started it had to face competition), right as digital manga took off, and continuous anime became outdated (which Boruto one of the last greenlit.) Boruto really comes off as a relic from a bygone era. An era that ended around the ending of Naruto.

So Boruto sells around 400,000 each year according to him.

Ah he brought up the sequel excuse...already covered that. They wanted it to be a continuation not just a random spin off sequel.

"We shouldn't compare Dragon Ball and Dragon Super success to Naruto." Wasn't Naruto once one of the top three selling manga ever at one point and was consider a peer to DragonBall? Now we shouldn't think of putting them in the same topic much less comparing them? How far has it fallen. What ever could cause such a fall? Maybe a bad ending and a sequel most people do not like for the past ten years? Hm. Maybe it could have maintain its position with a good ending and a good sequel. A possibility maybe?

Similar sequels to justify Boruto's low sales. Haven't read the Seven sin sequel so can't say. Fairy Tail 100 to be honest I kind of forget that still ongoing sometimes, also I don't think it help that the anime only started this year. Rurouni Kenshin Hokkaido...wasn't that put on hold for a few years due to the mangaka being arrested? I think that would affect the sales numbers. Also, it was made about 20 years after the original manga compared to 1 year for Boruto. The Inuyasha sequel which again came out years after the original's ending.

Ah the Boruto movie is strong...http://www.narusaku....showtopic=16678 For its time, sure. Afterwards, all its contemporaries eclipse it.

Now time to blame Naruto's volume count for why people aren't reading Boruto. Wait. Wait I thought Boruto was successful people were just saying it wasn't. Why the change?

It is the best selling manga in V-Jump! Well seeing as Super ended due to the Death of Toriyama, yes. But it was once In WSJ before it was moved to V-Jump. So, it like a loser in a major leagues moved to the minor and got second place. Not as impressive as it sounds.

Meanwhile in the video game industry, looks like Bandai Namco is cancelling projects involving One Piece and Naruto (yes, that's include Boruto), while Dragon Ball gain more success due to Sparking ZERO surpassed in sales by over 3 Million sold worldwide within 24 hours after release! That beat Capcom's Street Fighter 6, which managed to get 3 million in sales in only for a couple of months and also Mortal Kombat 1.

One Piece always seems to have problems with games. While Naruto once had a successful game franchise in Storm. How was the last one Connection everyone?

That would not surprise me at all, I've seen interviews with writers for the Disney/Marvel shows that happened after Endgame, and one of the requirements for getting the job was to know nothing about the source material.

And to those who watched those shows you saw how badly they were.

Hollywood in the last couple of years hired activists instead of people who know how to do the job. Obviously not the whole of Hollywood.

If the movie does see the light of day, I have zero hope for it being even decent, not to mention good.

 

It's a problem old as time, that people can't take any responsibility for their own screw-ups. What's worse with Hollywood is that they even went as far as attacking the fans.

Hollywood writers and directors have grown to hate any source material.

Most people think it is because they want to create their own stories not just adapt others. The problem is every time they are given the chance to do their own stories they are sheer garbage. Because they refuse to learn how to write from reading the stories that are already written, their morals are the messed up depravity that is only really accepted in the bubble of LA, and they can't be sincere about anything everything has to be ironic deconstruction meta commentary that subvert expectations with millennial style irreverent dialogue. Which people have already grown to hate because they keep putting that into IP they loved, so why would they watch something new that has everything they dislike? So their new stuff always fails. Which is why they hate and attack fanbases.

However by this point, they are not just destroying the stories people love, they are attacking the audience itself.

This led to a never ending cycle that has led to the decline of Hollywood in recent years, and the rise of alternative sources of media. As both, the audience is not watching their stuff anymore, and investors/producers are looking at those medias for profit. Not at awful Hollywood garbage, that has to go through constant reshoots because they can't get it right the first time anymore. So anything they can get their hands on of those alternative media, they will destroy it out of spite. The only way to make sure a Hollywood movie is made properly and faithful to the source material now a days. Is if there is a producer invested and powerful enough to force them to tell the story properly and force reshoots till they do. That is why Sonic, Nintendo, and One Piece have had successful western adaptations.

YUP. Naruto is a simplistic manga for simplistic morons I say. You are either a reader for the greatest fictional couple ever made, Hinata Huyga-chan-megami-hime-sama and her vicarious cup of courage turned boy toy trophy husband, OR you are an illiterate Buffoon for not seeing the true moral and message of the story was the former. Naruto is a simple story for simps, TG FOR THAT. *sarcasm*

I lost count of the number of times on this site alone I have done a page by page of a scene to show, what the scene was suppose to convey.

For example. What was the one I did last year... in June. The Sasuke telling Naruto to focus on sealing Kaguya.

My reading: "While yes, Sasuke was correct in a pragmatic sense. However, he was wrong as he went too far in telling Naruto to leave Sakura and Kakashi to just die. As it was immoral, it would negatively affect Naruto, and they can still be of use even if they can't seal Kaguya. Also, even Sasuke knows he was wrong, as Naruto was able to defeat his argument by just bringing up the Wave arc. This was to show Sasuke is still not reformed and Team 7 is not back together despite them fighting alongside each other."

Reddit's reading. "Sasuke is completely right." "...Oh and he still cares about Sakura deep down, he just won't admit it." When, they think for a second and realize he was advocating throwing Sakura into magma. Therece's biggest disappointment of Naruto, was Sasuke not just grabbing Sakura and throwing her into the magma himself. Most romantic SS moment that could possibly happen.   

That's what you are dealing with when other people read Naruto. You are lucky if they understand even surface level.

Simple or not, the reading comprehension is STILL f-ed up because many fans and the people BTS complained about and for Hinata, as like she was really that important to the franchise. When we know in actuality, she wasn't.

That because they want Hinata to be important not because she is. Westerners have been taught to think only with feelings. So they don't think about anything too much so their easier to control and convince as long as you know how to manipulate their feelings.

Fair enough

Yahagi Kosuke comments on western fans
https://x.com/DBZimr...774946712686829

 

"We've been reading manga for a long time, so we tend to read deeper into what makes manga interesting. But many people overseas don't understand Japanese manga. I think that's probably because they don't have literacy or reading comprehension. So, ultimately, I think that Naruto doesn't require that kind of reading comprehension."

Sounds like he is saying people like Naruto over other manga because it is simple. Would help to know what the question was or the interview.

OK. It was an interview in 2019 on a radio show called Izakaya: Denfaminicogamer. And he was asked why was Naruto more popular than One Piece overseas? Answer. it is simpler.

https://news.denfami...iew/191227f#i-6 Supposedly, it is in here.

Well, I'm not going to disagree with the reading comprehension.

This is not a new statement. Kishimoto has been saying stuff like this since the ending. This was always his justification for it happening beyond "she is popular and what the fans want while Sakura wasn't."

SP saw Hinata as the perfect woman that deserved Naruto as she deserved to be the heroine of the story. So, they wrote the Last to show that their Princess-Goddess Hinata-Hime-sama was the most perfect woman that was entitled to Naruto. He was her prize for being so perfect.

Kishimoto never got the appeal of Hinata. She wasn't his type and the people pushing her onto him would never explained to him why she should be the heroine other than she more popular than Sakura, she is prettier than her, fans like her, and she liked Naruto the longest so deserved him. Because the real answer is they love her absolute devotion, submissiveness, and no effort to obtain her. So, he needed his own reason for why Hinata should end up with Naruto? After, SP's staff pressured him to kill off Neji (the real character that was in the way of nH happening) her original storyline died with him. Leaving only her affection for Naruto. He saw that as pathetic and pitied her so agreed to put them together.

SP saw Hinata as perfect, Kishimoto saw her as pathetic. These views clash and helped make the mess that was the ending.

SP had nH's wedding be the end of the anime therefor the goal of Naruto all along was really to get together with Hinata instead of becoming Hokage and changing the ninja system's problems surpassing all those that previously held the title. The Last was to show how perfect she was and that she deserved a perfect life.

Kishimoto at the ending only had them together in front of Neji's grave implying Naruto was getting together with her to honor his sacrifice. And the relationship was set up by him which showed Naruto who focused on his job as Hokage was as distant to Hinata as Sasuke was to Sakura. The Sasuke that went out of his way to avoid Sakura for 12 years. Which is why both kids have daddy issues.

SS is still only happened because once Sakura lost her status as the Heroine he needed to put her somewhere and SS was popular with some fans; and nothing deeper than that because he dislikes the pairing. nH was the one he needed to be convinced to happened and once he was SS followed just to put Sakura somewhere.

https://thatparkplac...g-about-the-ip/

Rumor: Lionsgate’s Live-Action Naruto Film Is “A Complete Disaster” With Producers Not Knowing “Anything About The IP”

A rumor claims that Lionsgate’s long-gestating live-action Naruto film is a “complete disaster” with producers not knowing “anything about the IP.”

If true.

Guess Kishimoto trusted Hollywood, he is a fan of Hollywood movies, and didn't keep an eye on it like Oda. Problem is most Hollywood hates Japanese entertainment and blame it for them losing viewers. Since they are not going to self reflect.

.... It's a good thing I don't read American Comics then

Not many do now a days. How I understand it, after the 2000's they had lost many of the greats, and were left with mostly the mediocre who were living off the legacy of their betters. Then, comic movies took off, so you had a lot of nobodies try to use comics to worm and weasel their way into Hollywood. They couldn't come up with any interesting characters or stories. So, they just went "famous comic book character but now a minority." How that turned out? Well, Disney MCU is trying to adapt those now, but they never made any story or backstories for their new legacy characters. Just, "famous comic book character but now a minority," and hope that would be enough.

Both MHA and One Punch Man were very important for transferring many the lingers dissatisfied comic fans into manga fans.

In other news... Robert Downey Jr.  is gonna play Dr. Doom. I love RDJ, but Dr. Doom?

Hey, he only has to do one movie and after that he can just do the voice acting.

This is also likely do to a combination of lack of famous actors to play the role and the ones available/willing to. Disney hasn't really been producing hits recently. Star Wars is pretty much a black mark on your resume with only years wasted, Pixar isn't what it used to be, people are getting sick of the live action adaptions, they can't even do a classic Disney princess story right anymore, and the MCU -barring a few movies- was done with Endgame. For example, Disney was desperate to get Jenna Ortega* to take on several roles and even built movies around the characters they wanted her to play, and she told them, "no, working with Disney would be detrimental for her career at the moment."

*From what I understand they: wanted her to be the lead in the next Pirates of the Caribbean replacing Johney Depp's star power, they wanted her to be a major MCU character leading the next three phases, they wanted her in Star Wars, she was suppose to be in a Pixar movie with a character based off her, they wanted her to voice a new Disney Princess and/or they wanted her to be one of the remaining Disney Princess in a live action adaptation. She turned down all of those.

We have no idea how the tmnt writers feel about sakura, for all we know they hate ss as much we do

If they did, they wouldn't be selected to work on it. They probably been informed that SS happens and given an understanding of the characters. So it will probably be what therece thinks SS is, Sasuke has feelings for Sakura but doesn't like showing it; instead of he honestly doesn't care for her.

At best, it will just be part 1. As in, Naruto has a crush on Sakura, she has a crush on Sasuke, and Hinata is unimportant. Most likely, it will be nH/SS with the turtles pushing/helping Naruto with his girl troubles with Hinata.

Have low expectations going in, so you are pleasantly surprised if they are not the case. Fantasizing about the ideal situation for a corporate cash grab like this will only lead to disappointment.

Oh this came out yesterday...eh, no one paying me to be on time for this. Surprisingly a lot has happen since the last chapter. There was a Debate on CNN that by all right should end Biden's campaign, and someone tried to assassinate Trump with him getting an iconic photo from it.

But since people are going complain about politics if I talk about that. I'm going to do what I originally planned on doing with this chapter. Is Boruto worse than the Acolyte? I honestly hope it isn't.

Summary Time: Chapter 12...A full year of this now. Title: Thorn Soul Bulb...what?

Cover page is the Clone...my god her face looks awful, she looks like a blow up doll. Also, wasn't her hair purple? I recall her design in the anime pretty much being different shades of purple. Why is it now blue? Is this to make her more like Hinata?

Chapter starts with the cast reacting to Bolt's appearance...him coming in to save Salad, not how goofy his design is. He puts down his sister next to Salad and ask Konohamaru to keep her safe...why did you put her down next to Salad then? Does he not believe Salad can take care of someone right next to her?

Tree-Sasuke attacks. Bolt uses a wind attack...I think. There are no visual cue to show the attack so it just looks like a force push. Tree-Sasuke goes into the belt markings.

Back to Nail and Mustard. Mustard contacts the sensor division with their permanently active telepathy line to ask where is everyone while Nail just looks at Tree-Jenga.

Back to Bolt. Konohamaru chews out Bolt because he is still under the effects of omnipotence. Salad tells him to focus on their current enemy. Oh so that's why Kodaichi's insert is still up, he is part of the sensor division and Bolt asks him to sense for Tree-Sasuke, he also chews Bolt out. Then Salad asks about if Tree-Sasuke relates to Sasuke being stuck in a tree, and since info has not been spread at all this is the first time Konohamaru has heard of it. And wonders if this is the same thing that happened to Moegi.

....Bolt informs them that they need to beat Tree-Sasuke to free Sasuke, and Konohamaru wants to know how he would know this. Good question. I don't know how he would know that when the Tree-People only formed like an hour ago in story. I guess Bolt read the script. Normally, yes beating these do free the person, but the characters aren't suppose to know that at the start. So there is drama in, "wait if we kill them what happens to the person imprisoned?" Clearly, they aren't bothering with that.

Thankfully Tree-Sasuke was nice enough to wait for this info dump to be over before attacking. He does that by sending out some nudist. Fight. Fight. Fight. Desperately trying to make Bolt look cool. Salad attacks one and Tree-Sasuke pops out of the Nudist to eat her...now before you ask, why is the person they are after fighting? That's because Bolt told her to while telling the two that are not targets to back up. Why...probably so this could happen. So Bolt can save her.

Bolt lands a hit and we see how the tree-people heal. They go back to their base and absorb some of the world tree roots. Once he heals he pops out and does something?...Oh, he put more marking on the ground through his eye...

Salad see they need to bait him, so suggest Bolt fly and wait for him to go for her again to attack. Bolt decides that's stupid for some reason, he is not going to listen to a woman, and instead he going to use a full power Uzuhiko...that stupid vertigo attack? What is he going to see if the tree-people can throw up?

Oh it clear that they know their new signature attack was seen as lame in its first showing, because it was as lame as it was overhyped. So they are trying to re-explain again and hope its cooler now. It still uses the centrifugal force/rotation and the planets chakra (nature's chakra like sage mode but trying to treat as something new or different) to power it. So same as before they just hope this new blast will make it look cooler. Its power is apparently limitless if Bolt charges it for long enough. Oh Wait! They did add a restriction, he needs both feet on the ground to charge it.

Konohamaru uses his rasen-barrier to protect Bolt. Bolt whines about him not protecting the daughter, he argues back with he thinks this is more important, and there are already two people with her. Salad is grabbed...and somehow uses chidori stream to stun Tree-Sasuke and then pull him out of the belt...

Bolt fires his Uzuhiko which they try to make it impressive. It nearly one-shots Tree-Sasuke. He nearly escapes but finally Nail does something useful and shrinks the belts so he can't escape. Then he finishes him off. Leaving only the "Thorn Soul Bulb," which Bolt grabs and ask Clone Jiraiya for confirmation. I guess if they feed that to Sasuke he will be released. How do they know this? Again, I don't know. Tree-Jenga intervenes from long range to protect his colleague, knocks down Bolt, the Bulb flies to him, and Tree-Jenga decides Bolt needs to die due to knowing about the Bulb.

...How is this worse than the acolyte?

Hello, Bail!

it is always a pleasure to read your posts!

 

Absolutely. they wanted their cake and eat it. I agree.

it's just that I didn't know what the initial idea was.
The fact that the first step was taken out of a feeling of doormatism (really childish, come to think of it) came to me while reading a blog in which I participate, where written testimonies of ways of working within anime production are reported. I was very struck, while reading these excerpts, by the testimony of an animator.

He reported that, in an anime production, the decision of one fairly powerful person can decide the fate of an entire work.

 

Therefore, thinking about how then hime-sama-kun-dono-san-chan is defended, hailed, and justified in the various versions of Naruto-Boruto, I really began to think that it was the excessive devotion to that character the main reason for the decision that started it all. But then, of course, one also had to try to drag along as many readers as possible....

There, that was the sore point. How can you raise a new and large generation of readers when you treat your readers as morons as these producers did.

I must admit, however, that with some of the fandom they did it. I'm talking about the ones I see justifying this stylistic and narrative horror at every turn.
And then I wonder if they are not really trying to build up an audience that is completely devoid of critical sense, or if they simply despise the audience they are addressing.

The anime staff lusted after Nana Mizuki and the idealized woman they created in Hinata Hyuga.

Hinata was just originally a minor character that Kishimoto cared so little about he didn't even given her much of a story. First, to the character beaten up by Naruto's opponent to make the reader more invested in the tournament fight, and then, to marry that person to show how far they had come due to Naruto's influence. His lack of care meant he didn't interfere when he should have; when they started adding traits and scenes to make her "Naruto's perfect woman" at least according to the anime. However, no matter how important they tried to make her in the anime she would always be unimportant because she isn't tied in anyway to the main story. When they tried to do that at the end and then tried to make the entire story about her with The Last it helped to destroy the franchise

Nana Mizuki was a young beautiful twenty year old woman that was just starting out when she got the role as Hinata. And it is very clear the anime staff lusted after her. So, they did anything they could to make sure that she had to keep coming to their offices as often as possible, so they could look at her. Which means Hinata constantly appearing in filler. Stephanie Sheh has said she was annoyed by her role as Hinata as she would constantly have to come in to do a recording and be informed she was only going to say one line, "Naruto," over and over. As for Nana Mizuki thought on this, I don't know, but I will point out once she got herself established the roles she picks seem to be the opposite of Hinata as possible or at least an interesting take on the archetype at the minimum; especially after 2014 when her characters cause both Toriko and Naruto to go under.

Japanese Otaku are the same in and out of the anime staff so they liked Nana/Hinata, and hated Neji as he was her intended love interest.

American fans and western fans tend to be spilt by gender. Males like her because the perfect woman and the ultimate victory over girls like Sakura that friend-zoned them. Females like her because they self-inserted and saw themselves as the perfect victimized princess and Sakura was wrongfully stealing the man that belong to her.

In the end it was more they wanted their fantasies to come true and convince people to see how they did; than wanting to trick their audience.

Hello everyone!
Guys, is everyone well? Sorry for my long silence: I had lost my password for the forum. I finally managed to find it!

We are ten years after the end of Naruto. What do you think, having reached this point?

I've been pondering lately…

When the story ended I wondered about the reason for such a decision.... Surely, while they wanted to continue the series with a new generation, it could have been carried on EQUALLY with Naruto and Sasuke's children. There would have been no need to necessarily pair them with Hinata and Sakura (respectively). Then... why?
I thought about it and this is my assumption.

Those who wanted the ending thought it for HINATA. I don't know if it was out of zealotry toward the character or toward the voice actress, but anyway so I believe.

Why I think this I will calmly explain in more posts. In the meantime, tell me what you think.
I have always loved the debates in our forum!

They wanted a sequel, they wanted the huge international fanbase that Naruto was famed for, and they were told Hinata was the desired love interest for Naruto by a majority of the fan base; of course push along by her fanatics in the anime staff. SS happening was to put away the spare and make a love interest for the sequel's main character. On paper, there should have been no problem.

However. The fanbase that supported Hinata being the love interest was overblown. They destroyed the original story to make it happen. Their new main character is unlikable. They added problems to the ending pairings when their supporters desired them to be perfect and flawless fantasy relationships. Also the person they put in charge of the sequel made a poorly drawn, drawn out, and uninteresting story that disinterested most people.

I feel like the fact that The Last and the Boruto movie are both coming out alongside Road to Ninja this month on Netflix (10 years since the ending) is some sort of "test" for Western audiences to see if the spawn and its dad are still viable (pfft), or if the audiences now prefer essentially an alternative.

At this point, I think they already know regardless of how the views go, but if Road does do better than those two...well, its another moment of embarrassment for nH/SS-Boruto.

If it doesn't do well it just proves that the audience has moved on, and if it does it shows they picked the wrong ending. If it sounds like we win either way, it's because we do. Even if those two movies do well, they will still be frustrated by, "why are they seeing the desired profits they were promised now and not before?"

Anything that is not a complete reversal of their ill fortunes from now on is going to displease the executives. As they have had to wait ten years for desired and promised profits. And they would want to know, "why they couldn't be benefiting for it for the last 10 years?"

Right, got in the mood to talk a bit more about what I call the Tragedy of Sasuke leaving the Village.

Before that to make sure I connect it to the topic. Why I focus on part one and don't really bring up part two except for 693? Well to put it simply; there is no point. Therece made it clear, like a lot of American fans, they don't consider Part Two of Naruto that important. This can be seen by the fact they wanted us to consider part one was solely about SS, NS only supposedly existed in part two, and so it is natural that SS got together as part one is clearly more important. I just like to point out that part one is less than 250 chapters of a 700 chapter story. So apparently over 450 chapters are just irrelevant. 

So, there really isn't a point in going over the many NS interactions in part two because she doesn't consider them important. Such as Sakura flirting, swooning, and being upset about Naruto still being immature after not seeing him for 2 /12 years because she was falling for him? Doesn't matter. Sakura's sadness as well as her talk with Naruto after he tells her he is the host of Kurama, her asking if it possible to remove a demon from their container, and then crying when realizing that doing so will result in Naruto's death, so he is stuck being the host of Kurama till he dies? Doesn't matter. Her horrified reaction to the Four-tail mode and her begging Naruto to stop and no longer chase after Sasuke alone so he doesn't have to transform into that again, her crying over the fact she can't seem to do anything for him, and her hiding how she got injured because she doesn't want him to feel guilty? Doesn't matter. Her offering to feed Naruto ramen when his arm is in a cast? Doesn't matter. Her calling out to Naruto to save them from Pein, her hugging him in front of the whole village, and her trying to cheer him up about Tsunade in a coma? Doesn't matter. Her willing to throw away her feelings for Sasuke to the point of trying to kill him solely so Naruto no longer has to suffer from the promise he made to her? Wait. That one does matter as to her its proof that NS should never happen.

See apparently, its wrong for a women like Sakura to end up in a relationship out of guilt, however it is completely fine for men like Sasuke to end up in a relationship out of guilt. 

Anyways, Chapter 693 is the only time Sasuke has ever expressed his feelings about Sakura to anyone; besides telling her directly he doesn't like her.

Now, on to the end of part one which was the culmination of Sasuke's relationship to that point.

Let us start at the hospital in chapter 173. Sasuke had just spent, what was it about 3-4 months in a coma after his brother defeated him. He remembers that Itachi said he was weak because he lacks enough hatred in his heart. He then looks at Sakura cutting up an apple, recalling her thanking him for saving her from Gaara and him having clarified that it was Naruto, he remembers the looks she gave Naruto, and feels jealous at Naruto's growing power. When she is done, she presents one of the apple slices she was cutting for him to eat, this is to show her care and feelings for him. Sasuke coldly smacks the offered piece to the floor, which also leads to the rest of the apple pieces falling to the ground as well, rejecting her compassion and feelings. Leading to a cold and awkward atmosphere when Naruto comes in and notices the situation with the apples on the ground. Sasuke sees Naruto, gives him a deadly look, still thinking of Itachi and his interest in Naruto, challenges Naruto to a fight.

Sakura tries to put a stop to it, but Sasuke while he is leaving stomps on her apple slices. Therefore stomping on her feelings. Silencing her and making her think of the curse seal and Orochimaru.

Naruto is happy because he thinks this is a spar, he wants to show how strong he has gotten to the point he feels he can match Sasuke now, for what its worth I think the story surprisingly implies that Naruto is stronger than Sasuke at this moment, if for nothing else Sasuke has spent the last few months in a coma, and ask Sasuke to put his headband to show they are sparring as equals. Sasuke refuses as he is doing this to confirm to himself that Naruto is still his inferior. This leads to a spat that breaks out into a fight. Sakura, who is watching them fight, sees it as a brutal fight to the death instead of a spar and charges in the middle of them to try and stop them. She decides to do this, right as both of them have charge up their strongest attacks, and have already launched themselves in a way they feel they can't stop. Meaning that if she got to the middle she would be hit by both attacks and possibly die. Horrifying both. Thankfully, Kakashi intervenes and throws them to the two water towers.

Kakashi chews them both out for using such dangerous jutsu against each other and the fact they almost hit Sakura. He also notices that Sasuke's chidori was charged at the level of being able to kill and question if he was planning on killing Naruto. Horrifying Sakura. However, Sasuke cares more about the aftereffects of their jutsu. Sasuke's Chidori let him punch a hole in his tower while Naruto barely made a dent. This pleased Sasuke, as it initially confirmed that his jutsu was the stronger of the two, therefore he was the stronger of the two. That is, until he sees the back and sees that Naruto's rasengan blew a giant hole in the back in his water tower. Realizing in shock that Naruto's jutsu was stronger this quickly turned into frustration. 

Kakashi and Jiraiya have a talk and Kakashi brings up the fact the Sasuke has a superiority-inferiority complex. He must be better than everyone or he is worthless, he can't stand the thought of someone being his equal particularly Naruto. And that, Naruto has gotten so sick of Sasuke thinking he was better than him he desperately wants to prove to Sasuke he is his equal. They both agree to have a talk with their students, but before that Kakashi tries to reassure Sakura everything will be alright. Once he leaves, Naruto talks to Sakura ashamed and horrified that he almost killed her, asks that she not do that again. Jiraiya then appears before Naruto as he doesn't need a lecture to understand what he did was wrong.

Kakashi traps Sasuke, as he believes Sasuke will just brush him off otherwise. Kakashi chews him out for using the chidori against Naruto, that he should abandon his quest for revenge, and instead enjoy his new life with his friends on team 7. Sasuke initially brushes him off until Kakashi reveals that just like Sasuke before he joined Team 7. All the people he cared about were dead and Kakashi was starting new bonds with Naruto and Sakura just like Sasuke was. However, his end message is abandon his quest for revenge for the joy of spending time with his friends weighs heavy for Sasuke. As he does care about his teammates, but he also made it his purpose in life to avenge his family. This also leads to the counter offer of Orochimaru's delivered by the Sound Four of abandon your friends for the power to take revenge. This weighs on Sasuke as a difficult choice but in the end he chooses revenge.

We then see Sakura at home thinking over everything. After Naruto asked her not to interfere in their fight. Sakura remembers the order from Sasuke that she has kept till now, to not inform Naruto about the curse seal. She decides to finally break that promise and even makes it a date with Naruto to tell him. In the anime, they do this at the ramen shop. In the manga, they do it on the bench that Naruto complimented her forehead. Naruto reassures Sakura that Sasuke won't go to Orochimaru which she is grateful for, but she still doubts Sasuke.

So, she waits for him on the road the leads out of the village, near the bench where she thinks Sasuke complimented her forehead.

Now, before we get to that lets look at Sasuke's character or more accurately the character of his archetype the Stock Shounen Rival. Which covers characters before Naruto that help form Sasuke as Kishimoto melded their traits together to create the ultimate rival for Naruto like Vegeta of Dragon Ball, Kaede Rukawa of Slam Dunk, Hiei of Yu Yu Hakusho, Seto Kaiba of Yu-Gi-Oh, and Killua of Hunter X Hunter. As well as characters after that were inspired by Sasuke such as Katsuki Bakugo of My Hero Academy, Megumi Fushiguro of Jujutsu Kaisen, Yuno of Black Clover, and Aki Hayakawa of Chainsaw Man. The most important trait of the archetype is their pride. They are characters of immense pride, they have such pride in their abilities while they dislike it being challenged by fools. They despise taking credit for something they didn't do, doing underhanded acts to win a fight, or begging for power from someone else. Them doing so, is suppose to show their lowest points and how desperate they are.

Why this is important is that every characters read on Sasuke (except Sakura) is that he would not RANDOMLY go to Orochimaru for power; though there is always the possibility he would seek power for revenge if offered. That is why most don't warn him about Orochimaru but instead warn him about the dangers of revenge. Even Orochimaru knew this, that is why he sent the Sound Four with his offer. So, even when Sakura is right about something about Sasuke -normally when she is thinking of him negatively- she still doesn't really understand him.

Chapter 181 The conclusion of SS. Sasuke walks past Sasuke dismissing her. Once she starts talking he hears her out but he does not look at her. As he is already set on leaving the village. However, he does give her the chance to convince him to stay. She fails to connect with him like Kakashi was able to as she based their bond on a love that isn't there for Sasuke and he doesn't reciprocate. So Sasuke is able to dismiss all her arguments while she becomes increasingly more heartbroken and desperate. Resorting to even confessing her feelings to convince him to stay or even take him with her. Which he clearly sees as her last argument. So the conversation over, he teasingly calls her annoying, and he starts walking. Then as a last resort she threatens to scream and make a ruckus so other will hear so Sasuke can't leave forcing him to knock her out. He thanks her for the time they spent on team 7 and to officially dismiss her confession. After this their bond has ended as far as Sasuke is concern; which is why he treats her they way he does in part two.

...Should I go over the Promise. Only Sakura's reaction to it. When she begs Naruto to bring Sasuke back saying he is the only one that can do it. Naruto acknowledges that Sakura really cares about Sasuke. This cause Sakura to think back to her conversation with "Sasuke." Where she makes clear what she dislikes about Naruto is that he keeps interfering in her trying to win Sasuke's heart and the feelings he doesn't understand her or even enjoys watching her be miserable. While he is making the promise she realize that is not the case in the slightest.

Naruto doesn't start his fight with Sasuke until 218 and the important part is 229. The problem Naruto faces with Sasuke is he has already gotten a taste of the power Orochimaru's promised him. The power-high has convinced him, he has made the right decision to abandon his friends for power. Of course, the reader should know that he is a moron. As Orochimaru was planning on taking over his body the second he arrived. It was only because the Leaf kept delaying his escort that Orochimaru was forced to go into another body and fulfill his promise to train him to keep him around for three years. Sasuke goes through his backstory to explain why he is considering killing Naruto for even more power. To the point, he even tried to aim his second chidori at Naruto's heart before it was deflected to the right lung. Naruto finally does get through when he makes it clear that he considers Sasuke his first bond, he is a dear friend to him, and like a brother to him, but again it is already too late and Sasuke has made his choice. Only if Naruto could beat him, would he go back to the village. In the end, though he lost Naruto was able to prove Sasuke's boast wrong by landing a scratch on his forehead protector, Sasuke was unable to go through with killing Naruto, and so their bond remained throughout part two.

So, to round it all up. Kakashi is able to connect with Sasuke through their shared lost, he just had the bad luck of the Sound Four coming in after him; afterwards Sasuke dismisses all his lessons and no longer respects him. Sakura can't connect because she doesn't understand him and what she wants he doesn't reciprocate; leading to their bond being severed. Naruto can connect through their shared loneliness and finding friendship/brotherhood between them but he was only able to talk to Sasuke far too late to stop him.

Right now the scenarios I'll do three but I'll do them in general sense.

1) What if Naruto's and Sasuke's parents lived.

A lot of people seems to be obsessed over the concept that the overall theme of Naruto was, "Naruto was just suppose to be a nobody, he isn't suppose to be a child of destiny, he is just suppose to be a nobody." Not realizing the real point is, "Naruto was stripped of everything when he became the container for Kurama. He just became a weapon for the village, not really a person any more just a dangerous thing, the ultimate embodiment of the 'a ninja is not a person they are just a tool' philosophy that many ninja are taught from birth, and he had to struggle to get everything he should of had at birth." One of those being Sakura's affection. 

Naruto would likely be told the story of how his parents got together when he was young. Which would give him the courage to compliment Sakura's forehead even when they were like 5 or 6. Sakura develops a crush on the Son of the Fourth Hokage that complimented her forehead, praises her, encourages her, and protects her from bullies. Kushina, if she learns of this, see Sakura as a little her. Then, makes it her mission to get those two together and get her some grandchildren. If you don't believe that would happen, you haven't been around any mothers with young kids. If a boy and girl are friendly at a park, if they are watching those two mothers will gush about how cute they look together, and dream about grandchildren they would give them. So, she takes Sakura under her wing. Sakura's parents support them getting together, as it gives Sakura the best possible future as Naruto will grow up to be the most eligible and desirable bachelor in the village.

Sasuke would be Naruto's best friend since birth. Their parents were best friends, and apparently Mikoto wanted to adopt Naruto once Kushina died. He would know that Naruto pretty much laid claim to Sakura very early on, likely played with both of them for years, also likely end up on a team with both of them, and the Sacred Rules inscribe upon every man's heart call The Guy Code would prevent him from really going after Sakura. And again, he would probably prefer to marry another Uchiha clan member like his father and brother did. 

2) What if Sasuke didn't leave the village. What if Sasuke was informed of Orochimaru's intentions for his body and someone pointed out that without the plot and the world bending over backwards for him. He would have likely trick him. If not just out right imprison him and steal his body when he has the chance.

Well, Sasuke would remain in the village, since there is less of a reason to leave, but the 'what if' is always there in the back of his mind. That thought would come out whenever he hits a plateau or a roadblock in his training. Sakura might be glad that Sasuke hasn't left the village but the doubt, the fear, and what she saw in the Forest of Death will always stay with her. Naruto is told about the curse seal while his faith in Sasuke has never been shaken. He does nag Sasuke about the seal. Sakura becomes grateful to Naruto for helping return the team to some level of normalcy. 

The problem is that Jiraiya still wants to train Naruto to get him ready for the Akatsuki return that may require Naruto to leave the village with him; to be on the road for a few years. This will make Sasuke jealous that he isn't being given this special training for his revenge. So, the adults Kakashi, Tsunade, and Jiraiya talk about what they should do. At first, they leave the team together to see how that works and if they don't. They eventually decided to do the individual focus training. Jiraiya for Naruto and Kakashi for Sasuke. The problem is Sakura, they note she would be a great if not perfect medical ninja. She however lacks the drive to endure the training Tsunade would give her. She got her drive originally from seeing how hurt Naruto gotten from trying to keep his promise to her and her swearing not to be a burden to him anymore. So, she either finds that drive or languish in mediocrity. Story-wise she has to get that drive and it preferably has to come from one of her two teammates. Now be honest everyone, do you think Naruto is going to give her that drive/encouragement or Sasuke?

Then comes Karin who joins the village to be with Sasuke. If she is allowed and they discover she is an Uzumaki, Naruto gets a cousin. Naruto would probably want to get to know and bond with his only family. He also may be willing to help his only family member get with the boy she is in love with, who is also his best friend. So, with Naruto help and being Sasuke's type, she makes both incredibly and relatively quick gains to becoming the one in the lead to being with Sasuke. Sakura with start to doubt herself and Sasuke's feelings for her when another girl just appeared and was able to surpass her that fast.

Naruto is not bound by the Promise of a Lifetime, so he is free to pursue Sakura. Karin would probably help him in return for helping with Sasuke. Sasuke might just make it clear to Sakura he isn't interested in her and tell where what really happened.

Also, as I said before the time they were together as Team 7 before the chunin wasn't that long. Anywhere from maybe 3-6 months. While the time from when Sasuke left the village to the ending is about 3-4 years. That means at a minimum they would spend six times to as much as sixteen times together with the issues and lack of trust driving their bond into the dirt. Or more likely Sasuke getting sick of her pining after him and making it clear he doesn't like her.

So Part 2 would be NS and SK already set, if not together, as the final pairing just them developing further into that.

3) What if Sasuke returned before Kishimoto had a mandate to put nH/SS together. That is everything between what if he was dragged back at the end of part one, to he comes back willing during some part in the middle of part two, and even what if Kishi had continued the story past the war arc so didn't get the mandate to set up the sequel.

Naruto uses every last ounce of influence he has in the village to get Sasuke a pardon for his crimes. Afterwards for a few weeks he decides to give Sasuke and Sakura some distance before trying to win Sakura again; a reset of the relationships. Everyone, well mostly everyone, knows what he is doing. Sasuke isn't into Sakura and doesn't want to be with her unless he feels the need to atone for how he treated her. While Sakura is upset at Naruto keeping his distance from her.

Sai eventually has enough and confronts Sasuke to help out his friends. The two of them have a spat about how they are his friends not his. Then Sasuke goes to Sakura and ends any possibility of them getting together and pushes her towards Naruto.

Sakura confronts Naruto asks him why he did it. He confesses his feelings. They end up together.

Well got the other posts to how I want them to be...may have bolded a bit too much to highlight points but oh well.

Anyways, after looking at Therece's posts and thinking it over. I will now answer the two questions to the best of my ability. One, the development of NS and SS, and two how they would develop in various scenarios. 

So, for the first, lets first look at what we can identify as Sasuke's and Sakura's type.

Let's start with the harder one that doesn't get much focus on this topic. Sasuke, when he talked to Sakura chastised her for not training, and when he talked to Kakashi in 693 one of the things that seem to really put him off liking Sakura is her assumption that, he already loves her. Now, lets compared that to Karin, who seemed to be the intended love interest of Sasuke before the ending changes. She was chosen by Sasuke to be on his team because of her tracking and healing abilities, he knew her personality yet still chose her, and he didn't shut down her attempts at flirting, like he did with Sakura. My guess is because she was trying to win his love instead of just waiting for it. So, going off that, Sasuke's type seems to be  'useful girls that tries to win his love.' While he dislikes, 'useless lazy girls that just wait for him to fall in love with them.' I'm guessing, this comes from him disliking his fangirls. That would fight each other for his attention while hoping, he would pick out one of them to be his girlfriend.

Even once they get together, Sasuke seems to only really care about how competent she is (SS manga) and defending her on a basis of that competence (Sarada's Gaiden.)

Sakura, I have already gone over in other topics and even without that, its not that hard to figure out is, 'strong confident and capable boys that compliment her.'

So, like I said before, SS and NS mirrored each other in part one, how Sakura treated Naruto was in turn how she was treated by Sasuke. They both got off on the wrong foot in chapter 3. For NS, the forehead compliment led to Sakura doubling down on her devotion towards Sasuke, if not turning her crush into love. The conversation she had with Sasuke afterwards put him off her by showing him her ugly side, That chapter helped set up their dynamics as a team when they trained and went on missions. Now they had moments and got closer, for the sake of not getting into pedantic semantics. I hope we will all just agree that, Naruto got as close to Sakura as she did to Sasuke during that time.

However, the relationships changed with the Chunin Exam. For SS the curse seal, for NS the pinky fingers and fighting Gaara.

The curse seal turned Sasuke's and Sakura's relationship into a negative abusive one from the second Sasuke got it. Sasuke when he awaken his use of the curse seal, he went on a power-high trip. Where he tried to rip Zaku's arms from his sockets and was going to commit similar acts of cruelty to anyone else he could get his hands on. Sakura terrified and concern at what Sasuke doing begged him to stop. Seeing the utter terror in Sakura's eyes shamed and calmed Sasuke. But, he had gotten a taste of that power. So, he ordered/pressured Sakura not to tell Naruto, as he would not allow Sasuke to use a power that dangerous. The story makes it very clear that not telling Naruto was a major factor in Sasuke leaving the village. As he would have likely talk/pester him to not use it and he would have complied. Sasuke also shot down any attempt of Sakura telling others. He also dismissed most of her worries and concerns about the curse seal as harshly as he could. Though as shown during his fight against Yoroi in the prelims that thinking of both Sakura's worrying and Naruto's nagging is what caused him to resist the curse seal...also the fact that Kakashi warned him that if he used the seal he would be disqualified. Afterwards, Sakura's feelings went from fondness, constant praise if not worship, and wanting to get a date with him; to constantly worried, fretting over him, fearing he will seek out Orochimaru for power, leaving her, abandoning her, and doubting him in general. Till eventually, Sakura had lost so much faith in Sasuke, she finally told Naruto about the curse seal. Though too late to stop him from leaving.

At the start of the chunin exam arc, Konohamaru when he saw Naruto and Sakura together alone. He thought Sakura was Naruto's girlfriend and asked if that was the case. The way to signal that in Japan, is holding up a pinky finger as the red string of fate is said to be tied to ones pinky. Naruto agreed boastfully and got hit by Sakura for the lie. When Naruto was fighting Gaara to rescue Sakura. When he summoned Boss Gamabunta, he asked him not to fight in a certain area so to not hit Sakura in any crossfire. Gamabunta asked, "who is Sakura," and his son Gamakichi held up his pinky to say "Sakura was Naruto's girlfriend." This being a simple storyline even Kishimoto is capable of but went over the heads' of some westerners. The correct way to earn the right to call someone your girlfriend isn't to boast your claim to your friends but to protect her. Afterwards, Sakura went to thank Sasuke for rescuing her. Sasuke immediately shot down the praise and clarified to Sakura. That Naruto had saved her on his own and went above and beyond to do it. Sakura, then looked at Naruto at an amazed then slowly fond look. In order to show, that her opinion of Naruto had changed. From just a teammate and friend that she cared about to possibly something more.

So, by the end of part one. Sasuke was willing to completely abandoned any bond he had formed with Sakura for power and did so. Sakura was losing faith in Sasuke and had to seek faith and comfort in Naruto. So, by the end of part one SS is at least on the decline if not ended while NS is on the rise.

Sorry, something came up I'll try to do the scenarios tomorrow.