55 replies to this topic

[Traci]

As you probably know, there are plenty of people who heavily criticize Sakura for loving Sasuke, both in Part 1 and in Part 2. For some, the reason they consider Sakura loving Sasuke as pretty much a crime is because Sasuke is not a nice guy. Basically, they bag on Sakura for liking the bad boy and not the nice guy (Naruto). Yet, many of these people consider Sakura the worst person ever, cruel, horrible, and they like to make it sound like Sakura hates Naruto. Some even consider her worse than Sasuke, and that he deserves to be forgiven, but not Sakura.

My point is, if Sakura is pretty much anti-Christ, then why do I never see anyone bagging on Naruto for liking the (apparently) bad girl and not noticing the good girl (Hinata)? Would this be considered a double standard? Have you seen people hating on Naruto for that?

Just for the record, I don't dislike any of the characters I mentioned above. (I might have made it sound like I hated Sasuke, which I don't. I'm just recounting what other people have said about these characters.)

[LegendaryArcanine42]

As you probably know, there are plenty of people who heavily criticize Sakura for loving Sasuke, both in Part 1 and in Part 2. For some, the reason they consider Sakura loving Sasuke as pretty much a crime is because Sasuke is not a nice guy. Basically, they bag on Sakura for liking the bad boy and not the nice guy (Naruto). Yet, many of these people consider Sakura the worst person ever, cruel, horrible, and they like to make it sound like Sakura hates Naruto. Some even consider her worse than Sasuke, and that he deserves to be forgiven, but not Sakura.

My point is, if Sakura is pretty much anti-Christ, then why do I never see anyone bagging on Naruto for liking the (apparently) bad girl and not noticing the good girl (Hinata)? Would this be considered a double standard? Have you seen people hating on Naruto for that?

Just for the record, I don't dislike any of the characters I mentioned above. (I might have made it sound like I hated Sasuke, which I don't. I'm just recounting what other people have said about these characters.)

Dude/ette this should really be on the debate thread or something like that, but I digress...

There are three reasons why this comes to pass;

1) Naruto is the main character, all contradictions and negativity are invalid. (Says the rabid fandom).

2) Naruto gains sympathy because of the hard life he has lead and that's why the reader has no choice but to go "D'awww..." at his affection for Sakura and hate Sakura for rejecting it so blindly and vehemently...

3) More reason to hate Sakura

Because of this, we do not listen to idiots that spout off double standards... Rather we focus on the facts and the truth

[PachucoDesigns]

As you probably know, there are plenty of people who heavily criticize Sakura for loving Sasuke, both in Part 1 and in Part 2. For some, the reason they consider Sakura loving Sasuke as pretty much a crime is because Sasuke is not a nice guy. Basically, they bag on Sakura for liking the bad boy and not the nice guy (Naruto). Yet, many of these people consider Sakura the worst person ever, cruel, horrible, and they like to make it sound like Sakura hates Naruto. Some even consider her worse than Sasuke, and that he deserves to be forgiven, but not Sakura.

My point is, if Sakura is pretty much anti-Christ, then why do I never see anyone bagging on Naruto for liking the (apparently) bad girl and not noticing the good girl (Hinata)? Would this be considered a double standard? Have you seen people hating on Naruto for that?

Just for the record, I don't dislike any of the characters I mentioned above. (I might have made it sound like I hated Sasuke, which I don't. I'm just recounting what other people have said about these characters.)

Logically, it would be a double standard, yes. But the problem here is that the trends in what attract women versus what attract men are not so similar. Men are not attracted to bad girls in general, especially those who are considered bad because of who attracts them. Her love of Sasuke on shallow pretenses is a hideous quality to be sure. But everything else about her, at least so far as her general outlook on life, is far from "bad girl." She's caring, and a nurturer. However, this question has to remain unanswered. Because it has never been stated concretely what exactly Naruto finds attractive in Sakura, though there are many things to choose from.

[merryGOflava]

i wonder what attracts girls to the bad boy.......

it seems all girls go through the phase once.....

....even im guilty of it.....(so i cant blame sakura for being attracted to sasuke)

we get over it though (hopefully sakura does too soon)

Edited by merryGOflava, 30 July 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[Traci]

Dude/ette this should really be on the debate thread or something like that, but I digress...

There are three reasons why this comes to pass;

1) Naruto is the main character, all contradictions and negativity are invalid. (Says the rabid fandom).

2) Naruto gains sympathy because of the hard life he has lead and that's why the reader has no choice but to go "D'awww..." at his affection for Sakura and hate Sakura for rejecting it so blindly and vehemently...

3) More reason to hate Sakura

Because of this, we do not listen to idiots that spout off double standards... Rather we focus on the facts and the truth

Sorry about posting in the wrong section. I just thought since it wasn't too much about pairings and more about the fandom that it would be better here.

Interesting reasons. Yeah, it's pretty easy to give some leverage to Naruto because of his past. He deserves it, imo. By 3, do you mean there is more reason to hate Sakura, so they are less likely to be sympathetic to her, or do you mean they are trying to find more reasons to hate her? Either way, I can agree.

Hehehe right, good point. But I think some people dislike Sakura not for liking Sasuke but because of the way she treated Naruto in part I. They don't quite get the whole tsundere type.

Yep, I acknowledge that some people hate Sakura because of the way she treated Naruto. I'm pretty sure Kishimoto intended to make her detestable at first, so her character development into a great person would be really dramatic.

Logically, it would be a double standard, yes. But the problem here is that the trends in what attract women versus what attract men are not so similar. Men are not attracted to bad girls in general, especially those who are considered bad because of who attracts them. Her love of Sasuke on shallow pretenses is a hideous quality to be sure. But everything else about her, at least so far as her general outlook on life, is far from "bad girl." She's caring, and a nurturer. However, this question has to remain unanswered. Because it has never been stated concretely what exactly Naruto finds attractive in Sakura, though there are many things to choose from.

Well, if they hate the fact that Sakura has a shallow crush on Sasuke, then that's reasonable. But, these same people believe Sakura has no redeeming traits. Would it then be safe to assume that they believe Naruto's love for Sakura is shallow? I know one person who sees Naruto's love for Sakura as petty, even now...

Anyway, I agree with you, because until the root of Naruto's love for Sakura is revealed, then this question is sort of hard to answer.

* Wait a minute, didn't Naruto say, "I finally understand why I like Sakura-chan!" and then reveal it's because she seeks admiration like him and will do anything to get it? Well, that may not count, because it may be seen as why he was attracted to her and not why he loves her...

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[PachucoDesigns]

Well, if they hate the fact that Sakura has a shallow crush on Sasuke, then that's reasonable. But, these same people believe Sakura has no redeeming traits. Would it then be safe to assume that they believe Naruto's love for Sakura is shallow? I know one person who sees Naruto's love for Sakura as petty, even now...

Anyway, I agree with you, because until the root of Naruto's love for Sakura is revealed, then this question is sort of hard to answer.

* Wait a minute, didn't Naruto say, "I finally understand why I like Sakura-chan!" and then reveal it's because she seeks admiration like him and will do anything to get it? Well, that may not count, because it may be seen as why he was attracted to her and not why he loves her...

Well, that's the problem with first impressions. No second chances.

I don't remember that quote. Someone will have to show it to me.

[Jenskott]

My point is, if Sakura is pretty much anti-Christ, then why do I never see anyone bagging on Naruto for liking the (apparently) bad girl and not noticing the good girl (Hinata)? Would this be considered a double standard? Have you seen people hating on Naruto for that?

I wholeheartedly agree. Of course there is a double standard. Naruto can behave like a brat, a jerk, or be as rude as he wants, but nobody ever complains about it, or they even find it amusing. However, it not matter what Sakura does, she is always awful.

The newest movie provides a fine example: Both Naruto and Sakura are acting like brats at the beginning, being rude to their parental figures. Everyone are criticising Sakura but nobody ever criticizes Naruto in spite of he is doing THE SAME THING.

I have seen this in all fandoms. Bashers decide hate a fictional character for lame reasons, and they latch on their unhealthy hatred using any excuse -and often making them up-. And usually the male characters can get away with anything whereas the female characters can not do anything right. If they are being harsh then they are evil witches, and if they are nice then they are Mary Sues.

Often I compare how fandoms treat Tetsuya Tsurugi from Great Mazinger and Asuka Langley Soryu from Evangelion. The only difference between them is the former is male and black-haired. But their personalities, backgrounds and behavior are identical. Still, Tetsuya jerkish and loudmouthed and rude behavior (even when he hits his adoptive sister and love interest) is overlooked and his personality flaws are disregarded and he is hailed like a great hero. Asuka is treated like a b***h, not matter the circumstances, and her personality flaws are blown out of proportion.

[Traci]

(PachucoDesigns @ Jul 30 2012, 06:46 AM) *
Well, that's the problem with first impressions. No second chances.

I don't remember that quote. Someone will have to show it to me.

Yeah, that sucks for a character who is hugely based on change. Alas, you can't help human nature. Change is admirable, but people prefer it when you're good the first time and all the time, lol.

http://www.mangahere...01/c003/18.html - Here it is. That's Naruto, btw, henged as Sasuke.

I wholeheartedly agree. Of course there is a double standard. Naruto can behave like a brat, a jerk, or be as rude as he wants, but nobody ever complains about it, or they even find it amusing. However, it not matter what Sakura does, she is always awful.

The newest movie provides a fine example: Both Naruto and Sakura are acting like brats at the beginning, being rude to their parental figures. Everyone are criticising Sakura but nobody ever criticizes Naruto in spite of he is doing THE SAME THING.

I have seen this in all fandoms. Bashers decide hate a fictional character for lame reasons, and they latch on their unhealthy hatred using any excuse -and often making them up-. And usually the male characters can get away with anything whereas the female characters can not do anything right. If they are being harsh then they are evil witches, and if they are nice then they are Mary Sues.

Often I compare how fandoms treat Tetsuya Tsurugi from Great Mazinger and Asuka Langley Soryu from Evangelion. The only difference between them is the former is male and black-haired. But their personalities, backgrounds and behavior are identical. Still, Tetsuya jerkish and loudmouthed and rude behavior (even when he hits his adoptive sister and love interest) is overlooked and his personality flaws are disregarded and he is hailed like a great hero. Asuka is treated like a b***h, not matter the circumstances, and her personality flaws are blown out of proportion.

Some people do hate Naruto for being a brat, lol, especially in Part 1.

That might be it as well. Although some people hate Sakura for legitimate reasons, and then they try to manipulate everything she does into being bad, even if other characters do the same. And then there are the people who hate her for lame reasons. Usually, I consider these people as NaruHina shippers or blind haters of the Tsundere trope. (I understand people who hate Sakura for hitting Naruto, just as long as they don't try to make her out to be a bad person because of it. Hating the Tsundere trope is like hating the Yandere trope, and the Moe trope. Perfectly understandable, imo.)

Speaking of the Tsundere trope... Why do people hate Sakura for hitting Naruto, but Kushina never gets any backlash for hitting her son after meeting him for the first time in 16 years after his birth? Is it seen as spanking or something? Maybe they were annoyed by it, but her total awesomeness made up for it.

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Logically, it would be a double standard, yes. But the problem here is that the trends in what attract women versus what attract men are not so similar. Men are not attracted to bad girls in general, especially those who are considered bad because of who attracts them. Her love of Sasuke on shallow pretenses is a hideous quality to be sure. But everything else about her, at least so far as her general outlook on life, is far from "bad girl." She's caring, and a nurturer. However, this question has to remain unanswered. Because it has never been stated concretely what exactly Naruto finds attractive in Sakura, though there are many things to choose from.

he said her smile, naruto see her sweet side despite her being a tsundere that why he'd fall in love with her.

Edited by dovahkiin, 30 July 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

he said her smile, naruto see her sweet side despite her being a tsundere that why he'd fall in love with her.

Her smile? That's it?

Tsundere...I'm so tired of hearing that word. It just has an annoying ring to it now. Like "metrosexual." Or "emo." Or "valley girl." People's actions pawned off on a label. I really have to wonder if Naruto ever uttered that word to himself when he thought of Sakura.

Edited by PachucoDesigns, 30 July 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[Jenskott]

Some people do hate Naruto for being a brat, lol, especially in Part 1.

Some people. Not most people I have met in forums.

That might be it as well. Although some people hate Sakura for legitimate reasons,

I am sorry, but I do not get how someone can have "legitimate reasons" for hating a character. Any character. They are fictional. They do not exist. They are -in this instance- nothing but inked lines on a paper. Why would you want to feel -or even cling to- such negative emotion over drawn lines on a paper?

Being indifferent towards a character, I get. Not finding a character appealing, I get. Not liking a character, I get. But hating it? I am sorry, but it sounds to me how telling you are in love with a fictional character or you would tap him/her. It makes me thinking: "You are aware of he/she is NOT real, right?".

I have never got character bashing. I do not think I shall ever get it.

[Traci]

he said her smile, naruto see her sweet side despite her being a tsundere that why he'd fall in love with her.

I don't remember him saying that lol. Are you referring to the anime episode where Naruto talks about why he loves Sakura? If so, I loved that episode to pieces, but not canon even though I think it's a good representation of Naruto's feelings. TBH, having a reason for loving someone doesn't really matter to me, anyways lol. As long as you wish the best for them and will stand by them, rain or shine, do you truly love someone, imo.

[PachucoDesigns]

I don't remember him saying that lol. Are you referring to the anime episode where Naruto talks about why he loves Sakura? If so, I loved that episode to pieces, but not canon even though I think it's a good representation of Naruto's feelings. TBH, having a reason for loving someone doesn't really matter to me, anyways lol. As long as you wish the best for them and will stand by them, rain or shine, do you truly love someone, imo.

Yeah, but then that doesn't really honor the difference between infatuation and love. And there is a difference.

[Traci]

Some people. Not most people I have met in forums.



I am sorry, but I do not get how someone can have "legitimate reasons" for hating a character. Any character. They are fictional. They do not exist. They are -in this instance- nothing but inked lines on a paper. Why would you want to feel -or even cling to- such negative emotion over drawn lines on a paper?

Being indifferent towards a character, I get. Not finding a character appealing, I get. Not liking a character, I get. But hating it? I am sorry, but it sounds to me how telling you are in love with a fictional character or you would tap him/her. It makes me thinking: "You are aware of he/she is NOT real, right?".

I have never got character bashing. I do not think I shall ever get it.

The level of hatred some people have towards Sakura wows me sometimes and I don't agree with it. But if you can love a character, then you can certainly hate a character, no? Both are strong emotions, although they can both can get unhealthy and out of hand.

For me, if you don't hate someone for shipping, double standards, or something petty like that, then you have a legit reason for hating her. Do I agree with people for hating Sakura for part 1? No. But it is legit to me because you can dislike a character for a reason, just like you can like a character for a reason.

Maybe I'm not really explaining things well...

"I dislike Sakura because she loves Sasuke for shallow reasons." <---- This I'm fine with. Because you're giving me a flaw or bad action to say why you dislike a character, even if I don't necessarily agree that Sakura should be hated for that reason. I may not agree with you, but at the end of the day, I have to respect your opinion and not pretend that you hate her because of shipping reasons when there is no evidence of there being so. In fact, you can give me a good action and I'll probably say it's legit.

"STUPID SUCKURA, GOD SHE'S SO TERRIBLE AND CRUEL AND MEAN TO NARUTO AND SHE HAS NO REDEEMING QUALITIES, SHE SHOULD DIE BLAH BLAH BLAH" <---- This I don't approve of... Simply because it's completely untrue, looks pretty unhealthy, and when people act like this, I immediately assume you're a rabid shipper. Same for more civilized versions of this.

Just for the record, I'm like this with every character... If you hate, say, Lee for being way too youthful, I won't agree with you, but I'll say it's a legit reason because that's you and you aren't hating the character because of outside reasons like pairings.

I'm not trying to justify character bashing. Maybe hate is just too strong of a word, lol?

* Granted, I do believe there are many people who hate her for non-legit reasons. For me, if you start hating on her in a thread and bring up Hinata when the thread isn't even about her, then chances are, you hate her for shipping reasons.

Edited by Traci, 30 July 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[PachucoDesigns]

I am sorry, but I do not get how someone can have "legitimate reasons" for hating a character. Any character. They are fictional. They do not exist. They are -in this instance- nothing but inked lines on a paper. Why would you want to feel -or even cling to- such negative emotion over drawn lines on a paper?

By that same logic, there can be no "legitimate reasons" for liking a character, either.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yeah, but then that doesn't really honor the difference between infatuation and love. And there is a difference.

i think u really never loved someome else and yes smile it's just an interpretation of a sweet side and i'm talking this wiht my own personal experience.
i think naruto fall in love with sakura since the first time he'd met her and the fact that she didnt give a damn about him just made him love her more and more that why on the 3 chapter he says that he finnaly understands why he loves her.

[PachucoDesigns]

i think u really never loved someome else and yes smile it's just an interpretation of a sweet side and i'm talking this wiht my own personal experience.
i think naruto fall in love with sakura since the first time he'd met her and the fact that she didnt give a damn about him just made him love her more and more that why on the 3 chapter he says that he finnaly understands why he loves her.

Oh, that's what you think, is it? Trust me, I have. And I can tell you two things right now: there is no such things as love at first sight, that is called infatuation. And there is no such thing as unconditional love, it is a ridiculous concept.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Oh, that's what you think, is it? Trust me, I have. And I can tell you two things right now: there is no such things as love at first sight, that is called infatuation. And there is no such thing as unconditional love, it is a ridiculous concept.

infatuation?
oh rly tell me how is to love the same person for about 4 years, she's my girlfriend and i love her since the first day i'd met her, you start with something thatu cant call it love but it grows and get stronger at a level that it turns to love, naruto fall in love completely with her in chapter 3.
When he see her trying to win sasuke's hearth when he doesnt care about her in the same way she didnt care about naruto.
he felt that both are similar in a way.
dont come a me with those "ridiculous concept".

Edited by dovahkiin, 30 July 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Traci]

Honestly, I think the biggest reason why she's so hated and Hinata's so loved is because of how Sakura is in part one. They hate her, and since Hinata is pretty opposite of her, they root for her full on. And once they see that, their opinion of her is scarred forever and when she changes, they hide behind reasons that they themselves don't really agree with because PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT SHE HAS CHANGED.

A lot of the time when you dislike someone, you don't want to see them get better, you want to see them get worse, no matter what comes out of your mouth. "Ohhhhhh, I wouldn't hate her if so and so and so." Screw that, you would still hate her. Why do I feel this way? Because I've seen so many people admit it. One even admits it and than proves it with many of the posts, and then says something along the lines, "Right on with the Sakura hate. Boo Sakura, go Hinata."

Goodness, all the time, I think, "Man, Sakura wouldn't have so many haters if it weren't for part one. Yet it's the reason why I like her so much." Granted, I liked her in part one too.

Was she really all that bad anyway? One girl says, "Man, she's horrible, I don't remember being that bad to anyone except my mother." Yes, because treating your mother badly is more respectable than treating a friend like that.

That's how I feel about people hating Sakura about part one, and even after all that, I still feel it's a legit reason...

TLDR: There are legitimate reasons for hating Sakura, just as there are legitimate reasons for loving her.

[PachucoDesigns]

infatuation?
oh rly tell me how is to love the same person for about 7 years, she's my girlfriend and i love her since the first day i'd met her, you start with something thatu cant call it love but it grows and get stronger at a level that it turns to love, naruto fall in love completely with her in chapter 3.
When he see her trying to win sasuke's hearth when he doesnt care about her in the same way she didnt care about naruto.
he felt that both are similar in a way.
dont come a me with those "ridiculous concept".

No, you were attracted to her since the first day you met her. You came to love her the more you got to know her and the more time you spent with her. That first step is not love. It is attraction, infatuation, fascination. And that is what Sakura had for Sasuke. There was no condition for her "love" other than his looks and his coll factor. Love and infatuation are not the same thing. Just like a crush and a commitment are not the same thing.