31571 replies to this topic

[Bail o' Lies]

Yeah. The cheating part too also seems to serve realistically as a way to show us just how much Hinata doesn't believe in what Naruto can do, considering how we do see it more and more as the Chunin Exams go, like how she flinches easily when he fights Kiba, while Sakura is his loudest supporter, with Lee in a close second after he'd underestimated Naruto himself but realizing how wrong he was, and also how she wanted Naruto to give up as she was suffering from her wounds after her fight with Neji when Naruto got walloped by the 8 Trigrams 64 Palms and had his Tenketsu sealed before he tapped into Kurama's chakra to reopen them.

 

That, in retrospective, instantly can tell you Hinata only admires the Naruto she has watched from afar, without knowing the real him, without knowing how motivated he can get when he sets his mind on something, how he'll stand up for people when push comes to shove, how he isn't a fan of quitters or people who have suffered like he has but chose to not punch back when the world punched them first (look at Inari and Tsunade as big examples), etc. And it even shows too in other arcs afterwards too. And it shows why NaruHina was a last minute decision, not something that was planned intricately like NaruSaku was.

This another problem with their perception of Hinata and who Hinata really was.

 

To them Hinata was always eternally devote loyal loving towards Naruto. But the fact that she calls Naruto a "Proud Loser" and she admires him because he keeps trying even though he always fails unlike her who give up the second things got difficult. Along with the original scene in the manga during her confession where she stumbled upon him training while moping about how much of a failure she is. Means she must have looked down on him likely even thinking before that, "at least she is not Naruto," whenever she fails at something before that. Then being shocked and realizing that, "if even Naruto gets up and tries again after he fails how could she not do so as well." This led to her first respecting him. Then admiring him. Then after interacting with him and him being the first person to admit he likes her in any form; falls in love with him.

 

The thing about the test scene is it clear that Naruto was struggling and about to have a nervous breakdown due to the stress that he was going to fail because he can't answer the questions (and isn't able to understand he is suppose to cheat and even if he did, do so). Its natural for most people to help out someone who is clearly struggling even when your not suppose to; especially after whatever they are struggling with is going on for a decent amount of time in front of you. I've done it at least a dozen of times and I imagine everyone else here has as well.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 13 November 2021 - 02:01 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

This another problem with their perception of Hinata and who Hinata really was.

 

To them Hinata was always eternally devote loyal loving towards Naruto. But the fact that she calls Naruto a "Proud Loser" and she admires him because he keeps trying even though he always fails unlike her who give up the second things got difficult. Along with the original scene in the manga during her confession where she stumbled upon him training while moping about how much of a failure she is. Means she must have looked down on him likely even thinking before that, "at least she not Naruto," whenever she fails at something before that. Then being shocked and realizing that if, "even Naruto gets up and tries again at he fails how could she not do so as well." This led to her first respecting him. Then admiring him. Then after interacting with him and him being the first person to admit he likes her in any form falls in love with him.

 

The thing about the test scene is it clear that Naruto was struggling and about to have a nervous breakdown due to the stress he was going to fail because he can't answer the questions (and isn't able to understand he is suppose to cheat and even if he did, do so). its natural for most people to help out someone who is clearly struggling even when your not suppose to; especially after what ever they are struggling with is going on for a decent amount of time in front of you. I've done it at least a dozen of times and I imagine everyone else here has as well.

 

Exactly. While it's OK to help someone, sometimes it's hard when you don't be completely honest in doing it like how I said that Hinata just didn't BELIEVE in Naruto while Naruto was being slow and dumb in figuring out that cheating was something you had to try to do without being spotted. And it sucks the fans (more like fanatics) Hinata has had to twist it around just because they didn't like Sakura for being portrayed as human as she was.

[Chatte]

While I get that what Hinata did was nice because he wanted to help him, in essence it goes against what the story taught us at that time and in conjunction with his dream of becoming Hokage, which is "don't take the easy way out!".

 

Well, as good intentioned Hinata was, the story place her like a trial next to Naruto and his resolve to become a Hokage: she is his easy way out. Is he going to take it or not?

 

At the same time, the same story, placed Sakura, who was right behind him (behind any successful man there is a strong woman *wink wink*) in a is totally different light: she, despite not even being romantically attracted to him and having her own issues with the guy, was about to forfeit, so Naruto can fulfill his dream. This puts Sakura on the same track with what the story was preaching: work your way up to the top, don't cheat, do it right.

 

That is why, even to this day I cannot understand why people didn't look into this with the right goggles, despite our differences in shipping. 

That part was as clear as daylight.

[Bail o' Lies]

While I get that what Hinata did was nice because she wanted to help him, in essence, it goes against what the story taught us at that time and in conjunction with his dream of becoming Hokage, which is, "don't take the easy way out!"

 

Well, as good intentions Hinata was, the story place her like a trial next to Naruto and his resolve to become Hokage: she is his easy way out. Is he going to take it or not?

 

At the same time, the same story, placed Sakura, who was right behind him (behind any successful man there is a strong woman *wink wink*) in a is totally different light: she, despite not even being romantically attracted to him and having her own issues with the guy, was about to forfeit, so Naruto can fulfill his dream. This puts Sakura on the same track with what the story was preaching: work your way up to the top, don't cheat, do it right.

 

That is why, even to this day I cannot understand why people didn't look into this with the right goggles, despite our differences in shipping. 

That part was as clear as daylight.

The reason they don't want to see it is because they don't like Sakura. The simple truth is, that people judge and condemn others based on first impressions. Sakura was a friend-zoning kitten in their eye, while Hinata was the shyest sweetest girl in the world; because of first impression. 

 

You are right that in a sense Sakura and Hinata represented the hard and easy way. "Why go for the girl that dislikes him that he has feeling for when their is a girl right over there that already likes him." Which is why Naruto going with Hinata at the end help destroy the series. Since, she didn't really add to the story other than, "the girl that likes him," and trying to justify her importance and why she had to get together with him again, help destroyed the story.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 13 September 2020 - 10:52 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The reason they don't want to see it is because they don't like Sakura. The simple truth is, that people judge and condemn others based on first impressions. Sakura was a friend-zoning kitten in their eye, while Hinata was the shyest sweetest girl in the world; because of first impression. 

 

You are right that in a sense Sakura and Hinata represented the hard and easy way. "Why go for the girl that dislikes him that he has feeling for when their is a girl right over there that already likes him." Which is why Naruto going with Hinata at the end help destroy the series. Since, she didn't really add to the story other than, "the girl that likes him," and trying to justify her importance and why she had to get together with him again, help destroyed the story.

 

All very smart stuff, Bail :)

[Chatte]

The reason they don't want to see it is because they don't like Sakura. The simple truth is, that people judge and condemn others based on first impressions. Sakura was a friend-zoning kitten in their eye, while Hinata was the shyest sweetest girl in the world; because of first impression. 

 

You are right that in a sense Sakura and Hinata represented the hard and easy way. "Why go for the girl that dislikes him that he has feeling for when their is a girl right over there that already likes him." Which is why Naruto going with Hinata at the end help destroy the series. Since, she didn't really add to the story other than, "the girl that likes him," and trying to justify her importance and why she had to get together with him again, help destroyed the story.

True, you are totally right. It's funny because the other side of the fandom always tried to excuse that when NaruSaku fans said that Hinata is the easy way out and they said that well, that whole lesson was only in the context of becoming a Hokage, so that doesn't count.

 

But they easily went past that very moment from the Chuunin exams because apparently it has nothing to do with romance. Well, it does, and a lot.

 

By juxtaposition of those very two characters in correlation to Naruto's dream of becoming a Hokage, Kishimoto made it really clear which girl represents what.

 

Hinata gives him the answer to copy - she's the easy way out, he doesn't have to work for nothing because it's being given to him, on a silver platter, while Sakura - it implies sacrifice on both sides for a greater good, it represents the hard work one has to undergo in order to reach that goal. A goal which at the end, rewards the hero for his hard work as in 'getting the girl' AND his dream of becoming Hokage fulfilled.

 

So in essence, no matter how people want to twist it, by having NaruHina being canon, it destroyed the very essence of the manga.

 

But alas, it is what it is...

[James S Cassidy]

Well, I think we all need to remember that to Hinata fans in their minds at least is that Hinata was the main character of the manga and not Naruto. Hell, some outright hate Naruto, and only wanted Hinata to be with him so she could have her happy ending. Now that is what I call sad; why even read the manga when you don't like the main character?

Which is what I never understand. Hinata fans HATE Naruto more or less and yet they want so badly for Hinata to be with him. Why? Why want to have your favorite character end up with a character you hate? If Naruto is trash, why have their goddess be with trash?

Same for Sasuke fans. If Sakura is the worst female character in the history of anime, why do they so badly want Sasuke to be with her?

This sounds more like punishment than a true romance.

It can't all be about self-inserts can it? It can't possibly just be "I relate to Sakura/Naruto perfectly and I just want to have sex with Sasuke/Hinata respectfully. So that is why I like the pairing."

That is it, isn't it? They just identify with Sakura for the girls and Naruto for the guys and want to bang Sasuke the popular guy and Hinata the sexy love obsessed puppy.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 14 September 2020 - 07:36 AM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Same for Sasuke fans. If Sakura is the worst female character in the history of anime, why do they so badly want Sasuke to be with her?

Because they have a crush on Sasuke and are using Sakura as a proxy. Same for Hinata fans with Naruto.

 

It easier to pretend the character on screen is you than just pretending your there.

[Derock]

Which is what I never understand. Hinata fans HATE Naruto more or less and yet they want so badly for Hinata to be with him. Why? Why want to have your favorite character end up with a character you hate? If Naruto is trash, why have their goddess be with trash?

Same for Sasuke fans. If Sakura is the worst female character in the history of anime, why do they so badly want Sasuke to be with her?

This sounds more like punishment than a true romance.
 

 

I felt the same way. If you like a character but doesn't like/can't stand/hate the main or other character, why are you pairing your favorite character with that person then? What's the purpose of shipping then? If that's the case, pair with another favorite character or create an acceptable OC. 

 

And I agree with the punishment part but it's not really necessary. However, remember, we're dealing with fanatics/otakus. 

[Moon_Girl]

Some 'shippers' were just 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' types. NH fans would sideship SS because it got Sakura out of the way.

It's ironic, though.
Since the ending, NH and SS fans have been at each other's throats with the 'who is the true heroine' bit and/or having their true colors revealed about actually hating Hinata or hating Sakura all along.

Edited by Moon_Girl, 15 September 2020 - 07:51 AM.

[Chatte]

Some 'shippers' were just 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' types. NH fans would sideship SS because it got Sakura out of the way.

It's ironic, though.
Since the ending, NH and SS fans have been at each other's throats with the 'who is the true heroine' bit and/or having their true colors revealed about actually hating Hinata or hating Sakura all along.

Well, true.

 

And the funny thing is, they use the "NaruSakus have infiltrated NH and SS fandoms" as the reason they get at each other's throats.

 

Even now, years later, they just cannot for the love of God, admit their true selves.

 

But hey, what to expect from people who are okay with Naruto's line of "I hate people that lie to themselves"? Cuz it worked well when it was about Sakura, but it doesn't count now that he's with Hinata.

 

The irony of the reality of the facts is so... well... ironic. 

[Phantom_999]

Which is what I never understand. Hinata fans HATE Naruto more or less and yet they want so badly for Hinata to be with him. Why? Why want to have your favorite character end up with a character you hate? If Naruto is trash, why have their goddess be with trash?

Same for Sasuke fans. If Sakura is the worst female character in the history of anime, why do they so badly want Sasuke to be with her?

This sounds more like punishment than a true romance.

It can't all be about self-inserts can it? It can't possibly just be "I relate to Sakura/Naruto perfectly and I just want to have sex with Sasuke/Hinata respectfully. So that is why I like the pairing."

That is it, isn't it? They just identify with Sakura for the girls and Naruto for the guys and want to bang Sasuke the popular guy and Hinata the sexy love obsessed puppy.

 

Head canons. Remember, they don't objectively see Naruto as a character, They see him as their self insert to penetrate their waifu goddess so Naruto's character is irrelevant. They imagine themsleves as Naruto "going to town" on the completely submissive easy girl that won't squeak no matter "how rough they are" during the "nekkid reproductive tango" so it doesn't matter what his personality is.

 

And for Sasuke and Sakura, "Sakura is the worst female in anime/manga history" is not applicable UNLESS she is paired with Naruto. If she's with Sasuke, she's fine, If she's with Lee, she's fine, and the list can go on except for the subject of Naruto. Notice that only when the subject is brought up with whether or not she deserves to be Naruto's girlfriend/wife or even if she is a good friend to him THEN the kitten storm of she is a *beep* that makes and out right evil characters or religous figures look like saints, is said.

Edited by Phantom_999, 28 September 2020 - 08:08 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

Well, true.

 

And the funny thing is, they use the "NaruSakus have infiltrated NH and SS fandoms" as the reason they get at each other's throats.

 

Even now, years later, they just cannot for the love of God, admit their true selves.

 

But hey, what to expect from people who are okay with Naruto's line of "I hate people that lie to themselves"? Cuz it worked well when it was about Sakura, but it doesn't count now that he's with Hinata.

 

The irony of the reality of the facts is so... well... ironic. 

nH and SS have a fundamental difference in that would naturally make them enemies. If not for NS.

 

One group uses a character as a proxy for their fixing a bad boy fantasies that other group hates said character because she gets in the way of them getting their fantasy of them getting their ideal girl/boy.

 

They were always going to be at each other throats. It was only the fact that NS exist, as since if NS happened neither of their could happened, that made them allies. With NS "gone," they have nothing to do other then feud with each other because of that core difference. Which why a lot of their discussion are that one is better than the other, which often -and easily- become vicious, and normally someone tries to resolve the arguing by trying to convince them to go back to the old days of crapping on NS; a pairing that should no longer matter to them.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 16 September 2020 - 06:50 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

nH and SS have a fundamental difference in that would naturally make them enemies. if not for NS.

 

One group uses a character as a proxy for their fixing a bad boy fantasies that other group hates said character because she gets in the way of them getting their fantasy of them getting their ideal girl/boy.

 

They were always going to be at each other throats. It was only the fact that NS exist, as since if NS happened neither of their could happened, that made them allies. With NS "gone," they have nothing to do other then feud with each other because of that core difference. Which why a lot of their discussion are that one is better than the other, which often -and easily- become vicious, and normally someone tries to resolve the arguing by trying to convince them to go back to the old days of crapping on NS; a pairing that should no longer matter to them.

 

Pretty much, man.

[Chatte]

nH and SS have a fundamental difference in that would naturally make them enemies. If not for NS.

 

One group uses a character as a proxy for their fixing a bad boy fantasies that other group hates said character because she gets in the way of them getting their fantasy of them getting their ideal girl/boy.

 

They were always going to be at each other throats. It was only the fact that NS exist, as since if NS happened neither of their could happened, that made them allies. With NS "gone," they have nothing to do other then feud with each other because of that core difference. Which why a lot of their discussion are that one is better than the other, which often -and easily- become vicious, and normally someone tries to resolve the arguing by trying to convince them to go back to the old days of crapping on NS; a pairing that should no longer matter to them.

 

Yeah, it was one of those situations where the enemy of the enemy is my friend. Now that the common enemy is gone, they're at each other's throats.

But instead of admitting that to themselves, that they were never really 'friends' but moreso like allies, they keep putting an imaginary blame in the middle, according to which NaruSaku fans infiltrated their fandoms.

 

I swear I thought that they'd be happier with their win, but man... this is a new level of bitterness.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
Yeah, it was one of those situations where the enemy of the enemy is my friend. Now that the common enemy is gone, they're at each other's throats.
But instead of admitting that to themselves, that they were never really 'friends' but moreso like allies, they keep putting an imaginary blame in the middle, according to which NaruSaku fans infiltrated their fandoms.
 
I swear I thought that they'd be happier with their win, but man... this is a new level of bitterness.

The only reason I see them unhappy with their win is because were still here, were still standing and we dont need the canon as screwed up as it is to be happy.

[BlueStarSaber]

 

Yeah, it was one of those situations where the enemy of the enemy is my friend. Now that the common enemy is gone, they're at each other's throats.

But instead of admitting that to themselves, that they were never really 'friends' but moreso like allies, they keep putting an imaginary blame in the middle, according to which NaruSaku fans infiltrated their fandoms.

 

I swear I thought that they'd be happier with their win, but man... this is a new level of bitterness.

 

One thing I'd also say we NaruSaku fans have over SS and NH fans is unlike them we generally tend to get along with other shipping fandoms in the Naruto community, be it SasuKarin, ShikaTem, Shikaino, inosai, Leeten, Nejiten, Nejihina, Kibihina and even Narusasu fans. We don't make alliances because they are convenient to our ship we get along with them because we either ship them ourselves or respect why they ship them and if we don't agree with the ship or ven like one of the characters we just leave the shippers be.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 
One thing I'd also say we NaruSaku fans have over SS and NH fans is unlike them we generally tend to get along with other shipping fandoms in the Naruto community, be it SasuKarin, ShikaTem, Shikaino, inosai, Leeten, Nejiten, Nejihina, Kibihina and even Narusasu fans. We don't make alliances because they are convenient to our ship we get along with them because we either ship them ourselves or respect why they ship them and if we don't agree with the ship or ven like one of the characters we just leave the shippers be.

We only go on defense when someone tries to attack us first, and we try to be very reasonable with discussions to people, though some people do tend to still try to come at us, or just dont fully get us.

[Bail o' Lies]

 

Yeah, it was one of those situations where the enemy of the enemy is my friend. Now that the common enemy is gone, they're at each other's throats.

But instead of admitting that to themselves, that they were never really 'friends' but moreso like allies, they keep putting an imaginary blame in the middle, according to which NaruSaku fans infiltrated their fandoms.

 

I swear I thought that they'd be happier with their win, but man... this is a new level of bitterness.

Because to admit any of that would make them seem like the kitten and us the normal people caught in the middle. Instead of how they want to see themselves. The true fans that always understood what Naruto truly was as well as what Kishimoto wanted the story to be, and us the evil people that supported abuse and friend-zoning.

 

It was always impossible for them to be happy with the ending other then it happening.

 

Let's say 95% of the manga was NS supporting while the other 5% was nH/SS supporting. So, it would always be awkward if they went back and re-watched Naruto and most of the time it him forgetting hinata even existed while focused on Sakura and Sasuke. Same for SS when Sasuke spend most of the time focused on either Itachi and Naruto and barely cares about Sakura. Remember one of their big moments is Naruto disguised as Sasuke. Even if they convince themselves that it doesn't matter because they still won in the end; that still means their isn't much in looking back into Naruto. And forward? Boruto has their pairings as horrible marriages all around, and the new main pairing is NS come again.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 February 2021 - 02:17 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Because to admit any of that would make them seem like the kitten and us the normal people caught in the middle. Instead of how they want to see themselves. The true fans that always understood what Naruto truly was as well as what Kishimoto wanted the story to be, and us the evil people that supported abuse and friend-zoning.

 

It was always impossible for them to be happy with the ending other then it happening.

 

Let's say 95% of the manga was NS supporting while the other 5% was nH/SS supporting. So, it would always be awkward if they went back and re-watched Naruto and most of the time it him forgetting hinata even existed while focused on Sakura and Sasuke. Same for SS when Sasuke spend most of the time focused on either Itachi and Naruto and barely cares about Sakura. Remember one of their big moments is Naruto disguised as Sasuke. Even if they convince themselves that it doesn't matter because they still won in the end; that still means their isn't much in looking back into Naruto. And forward? Boruto has their pairings as horrible marriages all all around, and the new main pairing is NS come again.

 

And yet we see how Sasuke is when it comes to Karin, given his learning how to douse the flames of Amaterasu to save her life when Taka went after Killer Bee, as well as his genuine smile to her when they met in the Forest of Death. And even when he apologized, I'm sure Karin as a sensor-type could figure out he was being sincere when he apologized.