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Two ways Obito could've easily won


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#21 James S Cassidy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:11 AM

What's really going to bake your noodle later on is the plot hole of Kushina and Naruto.

If pulling the tailed beats kills people, but putting it back in can save their life (ie look what happened to Naruto)....why did Kushina still think she would die if she put the 9 tails back in?

Oh right, cause Naruto is the chosen one.


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#22 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:21 PM

Yes - I always thought this way about Itachi's convoluted plot with Sasuke. That slaughtering Sasuke's family, then mentally torturing him for years was all part of Itachi's master plan to protect/improve Sasuke? WTF? Just like the TriWizard tournament - there are literally so many ways that whole 'gloriously convoluted' plan could go wrong. 

 

(But then of course, Itachi's plan was brought to us by Konoha's number one genocidal pacifist. So his thinking's pretty flawed to begin with.)

 

 

yes yes yes

 

you're right about Itachi as 'good' and 'bad' - one being the pacifist, and one being the maniacal torturer. But that single thread of him having a good reason or one time being a peace loving child of the village is almost microscopic compared to the crimes he committed over and over again, all in the name of being a pacifist.

 

Because you know, 'bad Itachi' had to have killed more people after he joined Akatsuki. They wouldn't have let him in otherwise. So it's really not just the Itachi was bad to Sasuke for the sake of Sasuke. Itachi would have been all over the place, killing heads of state and other jinchurikis then stripping them of their demons, and for what? All so he could 'protect' Sasuke? (No wonder Sasuke's such a mess - just sayin.)

 

And yes - what would have happened if Sasuke had not gone according to Good/Bad Itachi's diabolical, mustache-twirling plan? What if Sasuke had become the ultimate pacifist - and turned away from being a shinobi and instead became a civilian? What if he blinded himself to foil Itachi? What if he threw away the power that was so desired by Obito, Danzo, etc? 

 

Or what if went the opposite way, and Sasuke became the villain that Obito, Madara and Pain all wished they could be? That when Sasuke found out how he'd been manipulated by so many people, including his own brother, that he just became unhinged? So instead of Itachi creating the ultimate protector for Konoha, what if he ended up creating its ultimate destroyer?

 

Either of those options — A, Sasuke as ultimate pacifist or B, Sasuke as ultimate villain — seem like a more logical fall out from Itachi's murderous meddling. In fact, weighing it like that, it makes it really unlikely that Sasuke just accepted that all those deaths were really for his benefit. That Itachi loved his brother so much he killed all these people just for him. 

 

But that's the way it went for Sasuke - he never looked too deeply at Itachi, what he did or why. Instead he just cried about it. On a rocky cliff. While looking into the sunset. He never felt like a pawn of Itachi's. He never really railed against him or what he did. And he never questioned all the people who died because of Itachi's plan.

 

And you're right about the last - Itachi had to have killed innocent people. Baby Uchihas. Any number of targets for the Akatsuki. Anyone who got in the way of his master plan (that Sasuke was then forced to accept and play his part in). But Sasuke never once looks at what Itachi did or feels remorse for any of the blood spilled on his account. He just accepts that all those people died because his brother loved him. 

 

Itachi, Sasuke, Obito and Madara all have a super better-than-everyone-else complex. Must be an uchiha thing. Because they all have no problem taking, planning or killing anything/anyone that doesn't server their purpose. 

 

On the one hand, we're supposed to understand that they're the 'cursed clan' because they love too much and it makes them crazy (or some weak crap explanation that was just to build in sympathy). But on the other hand, they all act like dictators. Every one of them. 

 

I had always hoped that Sai would turn out to be an orphaned Uchiha, and he would represent the rebuilding of the clan in a gentler nature without the eye powers (like Sasuke's mom clearly was). That way Sasuke's goal of rebuilding the clan might be resolved without the strife of the past generations being passed on. Like Naruto's whole theme of breaking the old cycle. But clearly that didn't happen!!

Yeah, I think the choice to screw with Sasuke's mind via Tsukuyomi was really the start of Sasuke's spiral into becoming the opposite of what Itachi hoped for (until Kishi decided to pull the magical 180 character motivation stuff on a number of characters). I mean, killing their parents and the Clan and then taunting Sasuke should be more than enough to motivate Sasuke to wanting to kill him.

After the whole "Itachi-was-actually-a-good-guy" pull, it made me think that he was actually trying to teach Sasuke about thinking beyond the Clan like he did (whereas most Uchiha were all about the Clan and nothing but the Clan), and doing so is what will truly allow Sasuke to become stronger, hence the, "When you have the same eyes as me..." line, but of course, Sasuke still being a little kid at the time, obviously didn't understand those words and would eventually take it more literally to mean getting the Mangekyo Sharingan.

So, unfortunately, as I brought up in other threads, it shows that just because Itachi is one of the strongest shinobi of the generation, it doesn't mean he makes a great teacher, similar to Kakashi, Jiraiya, etc.


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