144 replies to this topic

[shisui]

At this point I'd of preferred them to die on the mountain top. What we've gotten instead is nothing less then NH/SS worst level of fan fiction with the canon label applied to it.

 

I like Sakura. I want her to prevail. Them dying would make her a failure by her own nindo, so no thanks.

[咲耶姫]

There is no heroine anymore, neither Sakura and neither Hinata, and now I think there was no heroine to begin with, only pairing fodders. That's the only purpose of girls in Naruto.

[TouKen4Life3g]

There is no heroine anymore, neither Sakura and neither Hinata, and now I think there was no heroine to begin with, only pairing fodders. That's the only purpose of girls in Naruto.

I really wished I didn't believe that, but you're right.

[tricksie]

There is no heroine anymore, neither Sakura and neither Hinata, and now I think there was no heroine to begin with, only pairing fodders. That's the only purpose of girls in Naruto.

 

I really think this is true. In the end, the women of Naruto were only plot devices. Sakura is the heroine of the manga, there's no doubt, but Kishimoto robbed her of an ending.

[shisui]

How did Kishi rob Sakura of an ending?

 

If it wasn't for her, those two morons would have died. Sasuke put her in a genjutsu so she wouldn't interfere and Naruto told Kakashi that he'd come back soon. By going there, Kakashi and Sakura were their own characters, indepedent of what those two wanted. This time Kakashi wasn't late and Sakura protected them both.

 

Sakura's character wasn't about Naruto alone and it wasn't about her romantic feelings for him either. Your pairing preferences may be sound, but it doesn't take away that Sakura's character was in no way robbed of anything.

[tricksie]

How did Kishi rob Sakura of an ending?

 

If it wasn't for her, those two morons would have died. Sasuke put her in a genjutsu so she wouldn't interfere and Naruto told Kakashi that he'd come back soon. By going there, Kakashi and Sakura were their own characters, indepedent of what those two wanted. This time Kakashi wasn't late and Sakura protected them both.

 

Sakura's character wasn't about Naruto alone and it wasn't about her romantic feelings for him either. Your pairing preferences may be sound, but it doesn't take away that Sakura's character was in no way robbed of anything.

 

The last scene shows Sakura as the happy housewife. She's not even concerned about the meeting that all the other rookies are talking about. She's dusting. And not even like some kick-ass shinobi. The visual takeaway is that she's a maid/housekeeper. 

 

NONE OF THIS was her goal. To be a single mother and basically a civilian? She punched a goddess. And now she is cleaning house. She's not shown as a doctor again in the manga or in the movie, and her one moment performing healing in the field on Naruto isn't even acknowledge. She's a plot device in the NaruHina love story.

 

And SS? Her happy ending? Non-existant. Not once is she shown with a happy or normal or fulfilling relationship with Sasuke. Know why? Because that would take the limelight away from NH. They didn't even show him in The Black Wedding photo. Why??? It doesn't make sense, except that showing Sakura's love for another would make Naruto look less like a hero. Because winning Sakura's affection was the goal he couldn't reach. He gave up. So consequently Sakura is sentenced to a long distance relationship.

 

That's how she was robbed of an ending, a resolution to her character that is in keeping with her goals and development toward those goals. It didn't happen.

 

Honestly, if you were to construct a scenario that marginalize and undermined Sakura power, just for the hell of it, it would come out looking like Kishimoto's ending for her. And now we all know why: she's no longer the heroine. And he needed to make sure everyone knew that so she would not be a threat to the NH lovefest to come.

[shisui]

 

The last scene shows Sakura as the happy housewife. She's not even concerned about the meeting that all the other rookies are talking about. She's dusting. And not even like some kick-ass shinobi. The visual takeaway is that she's a maid/housekeeper. 

 

Sakura is cleaning her house, but she has her yin seal and her clothes aren't very housewife material. Unless you have a maid, you also clean your house. I'm not a woman and I have a maid, and I still clean my house from time to time. If there's anyone who quit being a ninja, it would be these characters, not Sakura who still her her yin seal: Hinata babysitting her child and visiting her cousin in the cemetery, Tenten is a shop keeper, Temari is serving tea to her brother.

 

The only rookie who cares about the Kage Summit is Shikamaru. The other rookies don't care about it. Shino is at the academy teaching. Hinata is at the graveyard and doesn't speak of her husband's meeting either. Ino, Sai, Chouji and Karui are in a training field hoping to train their kids. Temari is at home with her brothers, Lee is training and TenTen is playing shop owner. Sasuke is doing something elsewhere. Even from the kids, only Bolt cares. It's a point that nobody else cares. He tries to recruit them and they all find more interesting things to do. And he only cares because he's jealous, not because the Summit is important..

 

There is nobody doing kick-ass ninja stuff. it's a point of the epilogue that things are not the same as beforeto need training. Even Sasuke on a mission is just walking around. Shino is teaching, Lee is training, and Ino and Chouji (along their respective partners) are at a place where they're going to train. I don't see the difference between them and Sakura still having her yin seal. It implies they're all on active duty, even if they're not doing anything ninja at the moment.

 

NONE OF THIS was her goal. To be a single mother and basically a civilian? She punched a goddess. And now she is cleaning house. She's not shown as a doctor again in the manga or in the movie, and her one moment performing healing in the field on Naruto isn't even acknowledge. She's a plot device in the NaruHina love story.

 

Sakura's goal was to make Sasuke accept her, train so she wouldn't be left behind and protect her teammates. She did all of that and in the epilogue, she's with Sasuke, an d she still has her yin seal. What goal did Sakura fail at exacly?

 

Where does it say Sakura's a single mother? Sasuke is on a mission,not absent. There are Uchiha fans on the bookcase Sakura is cleaning, and Sarada calls Sasuke her papa (not formally, but affectionately). And Sasuke was big on family, thinks Sakura is his family, now has a family, and you think he'd be an absent father? NaruHina and ShikaTema aren't shown together either, are they single parents too?

 

And SS? Her happy ending? Non-existant. Not once is she shown with a happy or normal or fulfilling relationship with Sasuke. Know why? Because that would take the limelight away from NH. They didn't even show him in The Black Wedding photo. Why??? It doesn't make sense, except that showing Sakura's love for another would make Naruto look less like a hero. Because winning Sakura's affection was the goal he couldn't reach. He gave up. So consequently Sakura is sentenced to a long distance relationship.

 

That's how she was robbed of an ending, a resolution to her character that is in keeping with her goals and development toward those goals. It didn't happen.

 

Honestly, if you were to construct a scenario that marginalize and undermined Sakura power, just for the hell of it, it would come out looking like Kishimoto's ending for her. And now we all know why: she's no longer the heroine. And he needed to make sure everyone knew that so she would not be a threat to the NH lovefest to come.

 

That's cool, but the anime is not the manga.

[Nar123]

 
Sakura is cleaning her house, but she has her yin seal and her clothes aren't very housewife material. Unless you have a maid, you also clean your house. I'm not a woman and I have a maid, and I still clean my house from time to time. If there's anyone who quit being a ninja, it would be these characters, not Sakura who still her her yin seal: Hinata babysitting her child and visiting her cousin in the cemetery, Tenten is a shop keeper, Temari is serving tea to her brother.
 
The only rookie who cares about the Kage Summit is Shikamaru. The other rookies don't care about it. Shino is at the academy teaching. Hinata is at the graveyard and doesn't speak of her husband's meeting either. Ino, Sai, Chouji and Karui are in a training field hoping to train their kids. Temari is at home with her brothers, Lee is training and TenTen is playing shop owner. Sasuke is doing something elsewhere. Even from the kids, only Bolt cares. It's a point that nobody else cares. He tries to recruit them and they all find more interesting things to do. And he only cares because he's jealous, not because the Summit is important..
 
There is nobody doing kick-ass ninja stuff. it's a point of the epilogue that things are not the same as beforeto need training. Even Sasuke on a mission is just walking around. Shino is teaching, Lee is training, and Ino and Chouji (along their respective partners) are at a place where they're going to train. I don't see the difference between them and Sakura still having her yin seal. It implies they're all on active duty, even if they're not doing anything ninja at the moment.
 
 
Sakura's goal was to make Sasuke accept her, train so she wouldn't be left behind and protect her teammates. She did all of that and in the epilogue, she's with Sasuke, an d she still has her yin seal. What goal did Sakura fail at exacly?
 
Where does it say Sakura's a single mother? Sasuke is on a mission,not absent. There are Uchiha fans on the bookcase Sakura is cleaning, and Sarada calls Sasuke her papa (not formally, but affectionately). And Sasuke was big on family, thinks Sakura is his family, now has a family, and you think he'd be an absent father? NaruHina and ShikaTema aren't shown together either, are they single parents too?
 
 
That's cool, but the anime is not the manga.

I have just a few problems with Sakura physical ability and development, she punched a goddess and everything

My main problem is her behavior with/towards Sasuke, as she herself said she is always so pathetic when things are about him and I would really like to see a development in that part.
I see no diference from the part 1 Sakura. Sadly

And the problem with her being a housewife, well there's no problem in being a housewife , the main problem is because its the last time we are seeing her character in the manga and so its a bit underwhelming for the lenghts her character went in the series, becoming one of the most powerful kunoichis in the world

I would have liked if the last chapter had more pages so we could have a better sense of closure

I would have loved seeing Sakura as head medic for example or even by Naruto's side in the hkage meeting (not even talking about NS here, just about the fact that Sakura showed interest in helping Naruto achieve his dream and this was not worked upon :/)

Edited by Nar123, 08 December 2014 - 01:14 AM.

[tricksie]

 

Sakura is cleaning her house, but she has her yin seal and her clothes aren't very housewife material. Unless you have a maid, you also clean your house. I'm not a woman and I have a maid, and I still clean my house from time to time. If there's anyone who quit being a ninja, it would be these characters, not Sakura who still her her yin seal: Hinata babysitting her child and visiting her cousin in the cemetery, Tenten is a shop keeper, Temari is serving tea to her brother.

 

The only rookie who cares about the Kage Summit is Shikamaru. The other rookies don't care about it. Shino is at the academy teaching. Hinata is at the graveyard and doesn't speak of her husband's meeting either. Ino, Sai, Chouji and Karui are in a training field hoping to train their kids. Temari is at home with her brothers, Lee is training and TenTen is playing shop owner. Sasuke is doing something elsewhere. Even from the kids, only Bolt cares. It's a point that nobody else cares. He tries to recruit them and they all find more interesting things to do. And he only cares because he's jealous, not because the Summit is important..

 

There is nobody doing kick-ass ninja stuff. it's a point of the epilogue that things are not the same as beforeto need training. Even Sasuke on a mission is just walking around. Shino is teaching, Lee is training, and Ino and Chouji (along their respective partners) are at a place where they're going to train. I don't see the difference between them and Sakura still having her yin seal. It implies they're all on active duty, even if they're not doing anything ninja at the moment.

 

 

Sakura's goal was to make Sasuke accept her, train so she wouldn't be left behind and protect her teammates. She did all of that and in the epilogue, she's with Sasuke, an d she still has her yin seal. What goal did Sakura fail at exacly?

 

Where does it say Sakura's a single mother? Sasuke is on a mission,not absent. There are Uchiha fans on the bookcase Sakura is cleaning, and Sarada calls Sasuke her papa (not formally, but affectionately). And Sasuke was big on family, thinks Sakura is his family, now has a family, and you think he'd be an absent father? NaruHina and ShikaTema aren't shown together either, are they single parents too?

 

 

That's cool, but the anime is not the manga.

 

Good for you. I think you've interpreted it exactly Kishimoto hoped. The manga ending must have been very satisfying for you.

 

Sasuke's is on a 'mission?' Where'd you get that from? When he said he was leaving the village because he still had unanswered questions and had sins he needed to atone for? It's a personal quest. Nothing at all to do with the village. In fact there are no assurances he even cares about Konoha outside of his truce with Naruto. And Sakura is a single parent. That is what is explicitly shown. Sasuke is gone. He's not at Naruto's wedding, he's not there years later in the epilogue. 

 

It is so strange to me that people justify this ending, which is the farthest stretch from the character Sakura had developed into, instead of looking at why, out of all the choices that Sakura could have been portrayed, that she was shown as cleaning house? I'll say it again, it was to neutralize her character so Hinata could be the heroine. 

 

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If you were to construct a scenario that would best marginalize and undermine Sakura's power, then it would look like Kishimoto's ending.

 

Don't waste my time with this drivel about Sakura meeting her goals. Sasuke tried to kill her twice, and there was absolutely no redemption for him or explanation for her love. It was all a set up for the movie.

 

But believe what you want. I think you are just the fan Kishimoto is looking for. 

[Fanwoman]

I enjoy reading manga for the same reason I enjoy reading any good work of art/literature. Because I like reading the stories.

 

But lately I keep hearing that "in Japan a heroine is the main character's love interest". Now I've never heard that before, and I've never really noticed it. So, I figured I'd throw it out to the more knowledgeable of us out there. To the real Japanophiles out there, or hell people who actually are in Japan if we have some.

 

Cause to me it just sounds like a BS excuse, but I can say I honestly don't know.

 

Let's take "Dragon Ball." Bulma is clearly the #1 gal of the series, and Goku the hero. Do they end up together? No. Did Bulma stop making useful mechanical things--being herself--when she had a kid? No.

 

Then again, that was then. The times, they are a changing.

 

While I can't imagine the gals of "One Piece" or "Bleach" all settling down to raise kids and set aside their abilities, there is something I was hoping to discuss in this thread. That is the change from tsundere characters being the leading ladies of shonen series--like Sakura--to moe characters like Hinata taking that role. This can be seen in series like "Blue Exorcist," where the tsundere character is a minor secondary character and the main gal is moe. Of course, these days, one of each like they had back in the day doesn't seem to be enough, because you also seem to need a harem in shonen--a prepubescent girl, an older woman, etc.

 

I believe Sakura was pushed aside because her character type has fallen out of fashion. Since she was less popular, there was no need to handle her character well...not that any of them really were. (Why show Kurenai if you aren't even going to color her eyes correctly?!) Still, I fully believe the rising popularity of moe characters is a major factor in why things turned out the way they did.

 

 

Sakura is cleaning her house, but she has her yin seal and her clothes aren't very housewife material. Unless you have a maid, you also clean your house. I'm not a woman and I have a maid, and I still clean my house from time to time. If there's anyone who quit being a ninja, it would be these characters, not Sakura who still her her yin seal: Hinata babysitting her child and visiting her cousin in the cemetery, Tenten is a shop keeper, Temari is serving tea to her brother.

 

The only rookie who cares about the Kage Summit is Shikamaru. The other rookies don't care about it. Shino is at the academy teaching. Hinata is at the graveyard and doesn't speak of her husband's meeting either. Ino, Sai, Chouji and Karui are in a training field hoping to train their kids. Temari is at home with her brothers, Lee is training and TenTen is playing shop owner. Sasuke is doing something elsewhere. Even from the kids, only Bolt cares. It's a point that nobody else cares. He tries to recruit them and they all find more interesting things to do. And he only cares because he's jealous, not because the Summit is important..

 

There is nobody doing kick-ass ninja stuff. it's a point of the epilogue that things are not the same as beforeto need training. Even Sasuke on a mission is just walking around. Shino is teaching, Lee is training, and Ino and Chouji (along their respective partners) are at a place where they're going to train. I don't see the difference between them and Sakura still having her yin seal. It implies they're all on active duty, even if they're not doing anything ninja at the moment.

 

 

Sakura's goal was to make Sasuke accept her, train so she wouldn't be left behind and protect her teammates. She did all of that and in the epilogue, she's with Sasuke, an d she still has her yin seal. What goal did Sakura fail at exacly?

 

Where does it say Sakura's a single mother? Sasuke is on a mission,not absent. There are Uchiha fans on the bookcase Sakura is cleaning, and Sarada calls Sasuke her papa (not formally, but affectionately). And Sasuke was big on family, thinks Sakura is his family, now has a family, and you think he'd be an absent father? NaruHina and ShikaTema aren't shown together either, are they single parents too?

 

I'm sure the "single mother" is figurative, but it's a valid point. Clearly Salada misses her father because he is often absent.

 

As to Sakura dusting not being evidence of her being a housewife--nonsense. This is the last time we see her. If we were meant to think she was still working as a doctor in the hospital or whatever she might do in a peaceful world, it could have been shown. It wasn't. This is intentional. We know all we need to about Lee from a single panel. Sakura had many, but we're supposed to assume she's more than they portray? Does that mean Temari and Hinata just happen to be off from work in the afternoon, too? Sorry, but I don't buy it.

 

These gals could have been shown doing any number of other things, but they weren't. There's no reason, no even Sakura's yin seal, to assume they're more than what they appeared--housewives. After all, Tsunade had her seal when she was nothing but a drunk gambler. Having the power doesn't mean you use it.

[Narufan85]

Sakura could have been shown meeting Salad in the hospital. Or with Naruto, supporting him like she said she would. But nope. At home. Dusting.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

 

Good for you. I think you've interpreted it exactly Kishimoto hoped. The manga ending must have been very satisfying for you.

 

Sasuke's is on a 'mission?' Where'd you get that from? When he said he was leaving the village because he still had unanswered questions and had sins he needed to atone for? It's a personal quest. Nothing at all to do with the village. In fact there are no assurances he even cares about Konoha outside of his truce with Naruto. And Sakura is a single parent. That is what is explicitly shown. Sasuke is gone. He's not at Naruto's wedding, he's not there years later in the epilogue. 

 

It is so strange to me that people justify this ending, which is the farthest stretch from the character Sakura had developed into, instead of looking at why, out of all the choices that Sakura could have been portrayed, that she was shown as cleaning house? I'll say it again, it was to neutralize her character so Hinata could be the heroine. 

 

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If you were to construct a scenario that would best marginalize and undermine Sakura's power, then it would look like Kishimoto's ending.

 

Don't waste my time with this drivel about Sakura meeting her goals. Sasuke tried to kill her twice, and there was absolutely no redemption for him or explanation for her love. It was all a set up for the movie.

 

But believe what you want. I think you are just the fan Kishimoto is looking for. 

 

w00t!! Tricksie, I think I'm falling for you after that epicness! 

 

And it is true, considering Sakura also wanted to support Naruto's dream to be Hokage, yet we don't even see that, or a resolution, a PROPER one, of her feelings for him, just the fact that he's with Hinata so by proxy, she's gotta be with Sasuke for some dumb reason. =/

[ThroughWithLove]

How did Kishi rob Sakura of an ending?

 

If it wasn't for her, those two morons would have died. Sasuke put her in a genjutsu so she wouldn't interfere and Naruto told Kakashi that he'd come back soon. By going there, Kakashi and Sakura were their own characters, indepedent of what those two wanted. This time Kakashi wasn't late and Sakura protected them both.

 

Sakura's character wasn't about Naruto alone and it wasn't about her romantic feelings for him either. Your pairing preferences may be sound, but it doesn't take away that Sakura's character was in no way robbed of anything.

 

Multiple ways. The most obvious being that she plays no real role in bringing Sasuke back. Naruto does that all on his own. This was Sakura's stated goal at the end of part 1 (for her and Naruto to bring Sasuke back together) and she never delivers. She heals Sasuke, but Naruto had already brought him back to the life side, so it didn't matter (not to mention that Naruto somehow forgot about his new superior healing powers).

 

But that's just a surface level issue. The real issue is that she doesn't develop and never justifies her presence in this manga. You say romance isn't the point of Sakura's. I agree with this, but what is the point? What does Sakura bring to the table?

 

You're right about this not being about romance. This is about character development. This is about good storytelling. And if i have to objectively considering all 700 chapters and the follow up movie together, Sakura is a good example of bad storytelling. Sakura is the female lead by default so you come to have high expectations of her, but talk about putting someone on a pedestal. What are her defining moments in the series? She cut her hair to prove that she would start taking the ninja life seriously, but the only moment where she gets to prove herself is against Sasori. Even during the war when she gets her last minute out of nowhere power up, the only thing she accomplishes is beating up fodder trash (which every other member of the genin 9 is shown doing). Her role in beating Kaguya involves retconning explanations of Kaguya's abilities which we were given no more than a relatively small amount of chapters earlier (see footnote below). Because Sakura started as a Sasuke fangirl and ended as a Sasuke fangirl, most are going to look at that and say Sakura didn't develop in any way whatsoever. She is still a 12 year old girl yearning for Sasuke. It comes off as though she has had no actual character growth whatsoever.

 

Putting Sakura with Naruto is at very least really just a last ditch effort at finding a reason to validate her purpose for being a part of the manga, because at the very least it might be the ultimate underdog love story come true or the story of young girl's path to adult hood. But that didn't happen....so...basically...the female lead of this series is completely and utterly pointless. She's pretty much there to be Sasuke's eventual love interest. Even worse, we never even find out why she likes Sasuke or what distinguishes her feelings from Ino or the rest of the Sasuke fangirls. She could have very least been given an epithany on what her love for Sasuke means for her, but nope, this ending makes it to where nothing changes from chapter 3.

 

 

 

Footnote:

Sakura is able to punch Kaguya's horn off and damage her face, making her left cheek swell up...First off this woman tanked nine tailed beast Rasenshuriken without much damage and took a punch from Six Paths Naruto in the face in chapter 682 with only a little bruise, while Sakura was useless against Spiral Zetsu. Not to mention Kaguya was using yin/yang release at the time so her ninjutsu negation ability (which affects both her truth seeking ball and body as shown by Obito) should have been active. Sakura's "super strength" is actually nin-taijutsu where she releases chakra from her fist on contact just like Body Flicker does with the feet which is ninjutsu. So Sakura's punch should have been useless.

 

-Hat tip

 

 

 

 

Sakura is cleaning her house, but she has her yin seal and her clothes aren't very housewife material. Unless you have a maid, you also clean your house. I'm not a woman and I have a maid, and I still clean my house from time to time. If there's anyone who quit being a ninja, it would be these characters, not Sakura who still her her yin seal: Hinata babysitting her child and visiting her cousin in the cemetery, Tenten is a shop keeper, Temari is serving tea to her brother.

 

It's not so much that she's cleaning her house; it's that this is all we see her doing and really all we have to go by. If she's revealed to be doing more than that later on, that's great, but given Kishi's treatment of women in general throughout this manga, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

 

Sakura's goal was to make Sasuke accept her, train so she wouldn't be left behind and protect her teammates. She did all of that and in the epilogue, she's with Sasuke, an d she still has her yin seal. What goal did Sakura fail at exacly?

 

 

Okay, lets think about that. Why was this her goal? Can you answer that by citing the manga and without speculation? Also, how did she achieve her goal? Sasuke simply gives her the "ultimate expression of love" all of the sudden. She doesn't lift a finger to make it happen. Would you be satisfied if Naruto went from a nobody to being hokage instantly without him having to do anything of substance?

 

And yeah, Sakura did fail all right. She failed to bring Sasuke back with Naruto.This was her stated goal and drove much of the plot in part 2. Naruto did it on his own. All Sakura did was cry, get fodderized by genjutsu and then come back and keep appearances after Naruto did all the work.
 

 

Where does it say Sakura's a single mother? Sasuke is on a mission,not absent. There are Uchiha fans on the bookcase Sakura is cleaning, and Sarada calls Sasuke her papa (not formally, but affectionately). And Sasuke was big on family, thinks Sakura is his family, now has a family, and you think he'd be an absent father? NaruHina and ShikaTema aren't shown together either, are they single parents too?

 

 

One could only hope.

Edited by ThroughWithLove, 08 December 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[Miss Soupy]

 

Then again, that was then. The times, they are a changing.

 

While I can't imagine the gals of "One Piece" or "Bleach" all settling down to raise kids and set aside their abilities, there is something I was hoping to discuss in this thread. That is the change from tsundere characters being the leading ladies of shonen series--like Sakura--to moe characters like Hinata taking that role. This can be seen in series like "Blue Exorcist," where the tsundere character is a minor secondary character and the main gal is moe. Of course, these days, one of each like they had back in the day doesn't seem to be enough, because you also seem to need a harem in shonen--a prepubescent girl, an older woman, etc.

 

I believe Sakura was pushed aside because her character type has fallen out of fashion. Since she was less popular, there was no need to handle her character well...not that any of them really were. (Why show Kurenai if you aren't even going to color her eyes correctly?!) Still, I fully believe the rising popularity of moe characters is a major factor in why things turned out the way they did.

 

Not gonna argue that moe girls aren't popular. But I'm not sure the examples you are using fit. Hinata type of moe girl is one that is basically absent and not useful when it comes to the plot. You give the example of Shiemi from Blue Exorcist as a Hinata type of girl. Except, Shiemi is not hidden in the background with only 'cute' to her name. She actively supports the hero. I'd compare Shiemi to Orihime from bleach, both bubbly types. I don't find either girl like Hinata as far as their importance in the manga nor their nature.

 

I'd also add the Rukia is by far the most popular female in bleach, yet she isn't a moe type either. I think Sakura became less popular not because she is tsundere, but because Kishi was all over the place with handling her in the final stretch of the manga. It's not a shifting in popularity type, its just bad portrayal of a character. He dropped her development after the Pain Arc to make her look bad. Or that's what it looks like to me.

[TerrorKing]

Sakura may not have been a great heroine, but I still think Kishi did a decent job with her up until chapter 693. Like others have said, if chapter 700 had shown her leading the hospital, that would at least have given us some indication that she succeded in her career as a shinobi, or at the very least that she's still an active ninja, as opposed to a single mother who spends all her time dusting. 

 

But if we ignore that, I still think she's a decent heroine. It's true that Kishi could have done alot more with her, like developing her genjutsu abilities or her promise to save both Naruto and Sasuke. 

 

To be honest, Sakura's biggest failure is being on the same team as Naruto and Sasuke. While Kishi was busy developing his main hero and his main antihero, he completely forgot his heroine. That is, until he suddenly remembers her and then he lets her shine for a little while only to once again put her on the backburner. 

 

But still, she got her medical abilities, she got her super strength, she got her yin seal and she even got a summon. Furthermore, she's just a really awesome character. She just seems real. She laughs, she cries, she's strong, but also very vulnerable. She might come off as incredibly temperamental, but she's actually really kind and willing to sacrifice herself for the ones she cares about. Then there's her relationship with Naruto, which is just so incredibly well developed and positive. You really get the feelings that this is two people who really know and respect each other and who would do anything to keep each other happy. 

 

I don't know, it's hard for me to explain properly. The point is that, even with all her faults, Sakura still comes of as an interesting, complex and well rounded character. Maybe that's not what people want a heroine to be, but I'll say that if she wasn't there, then Naruto wouldn't be the same. 

Edited by TerrorKing, 08 December 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[James S Cassidy]

 

Good for you. I think you've interpreted it exactly Kishimoto hoped. The manga ending must have been very satisfying for you.

 

Sasuke's is on a 'mission?' Where'd you get that from? When he said he was leaving the village because he still had unanswered questions and had sins he needed to atone for? It's a personal quest. Nothing at all to do with the village. In fact there are no assurances he even cares about Konoha outside of his truce with Naruto. And Sakura is a single parent. That is what is explicitly shown. Sasuke is gone. He's not at Naruto's wedding, he's not there years later in the epilogue. 

 

It is so strange to me that people justify this ending, which is the farthest stretch from the character Sakura had developed into, instead of looking at why, out of all the choices that Sakura could have been portrayed, that she was shown as cleaning house? I'll say it again, it was to neutralize her character so Hinata could be the heroine. 

 

Let me repeat what I said earlier: If you were to construct a scenario that would best marginalize and undermine Sakura's power, then it would look like Kishimoto's ending.

 

Don't waste my time with this drivel about Sakura meeting her goals. Sasuke tried to kill her twice, and there was absolutely no redemption for him or explanation for her love. It was all a set up for the movie.

 

But believe what you want. I think you are just the fan Kishimoto is looking for. 

Yeah. The manga is all about showing...not telling and what you get from the last chapter doesn't look happy at all. I keep getting this all the time again and I am so sick of people not realizing the fundamental truth.

"You can't say everyone is miserable in only 15 pages."
Well, you can't say they are happy either in only 15 pages. There is nothing to suggest that this was a "happy" ending seeing how what is shown is rather grey and miserable.

"How do you know Sakura is only a housewife?"
Because that is the last image we have of her. She is not in a doctor's coat. I can only work with what is shown. If something is not shown then you cannot say it exists. You can assume to me that it is there and yet do the complete opposite and expect me to believe otherwise.

"Naruto is not a bad father. You can't tell that based off those few pages."
Oh, but I can. See, Naruto working over time one or two nights wouldn't cause his son Bolt to behave like that. I know, I have seen many real life stories work this way. My own father for example. Now given how Bolt tells his father "You are never home and never give us any attention" suggests that this has been going on for a long time. Months or years even. Naruto also doesn't look happy. Yeah, he has a panel of him smiling, but it doesn't look happy. People can smile and not be happy. Sai said himself that people can fake smiles. This is Naruto here. he is faking a smile all while being miserable, but this is JUST off the final chapter of the volume. Kishimoto can say whatever he wants in interviews, but his artwork says otherwise. There is mistakes and then there is obvious tellings.

"Sakura can't be a single housewife just because Sasuke isn't home."
Again, the visuals tell a different story as well as the dialogue. I don't like "reading off panel" things because that is just cheap story writing. It makes it seem like Sasuke is never home because Salad makes a notion that he isn't and Sasuke is still seen wandering. You also have the fact that you don't see any of the two couples standing side by side in any panel at all. Why not? Why couldn't Kishimoto draw that? It is not THAT hard. I want to see it.

So many many more. People forget that this is a two way street here. Visualization is the key here and the visuals do not suggest anything remotely positive happening as of late. In fact, it shows the opposite. Naruto cannot be THAT busy seeing how everyone is at peace. What could he possibly be doing to take up THAT much time? Not even the other Kage were THAT busy and they were around during times of war.

You want me to believe this is a happy ending? Then he should have showed us it was, but instead he draws this miserable excuse of a "happy ending" and then expects us to believe it is okay....no.
 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 08 December 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Dendraki]

 Kishimoto can say whatever he wants in interviews, but his artwork says otherwise. There is mistakes and then there is obvious tellings.

Visualization is the key here and the visuals do not suggest anything remotely positive happening as of late. In fact, it shows the opposite. Naruto cannot be THAT busy seeing how everyone is at peace. What could he possibly be doing to take up THAT much time? Not even the other Kage were THAT busy and they were around during times of war.
 

And this is why i still believe that we are still not seeing the whole picture.

 

There's this feeling in the back of my brain. Call it spidey sense or whatever. But something just doesnt add up.

[Shadow1275]

i'd say that sakura was the heroine until 693. She still had a decent amount of panel time, more than the supporting characters. Punching a goddess and the yin seal helped to handle the issue of her uselessness and one could have made a decent argument that she was going to get over Sasuke who no one can argue was detrimental to her character. Even She herself stated that her loving Sasuke was pathetic. Why was it pathetic? Bc he didn't deserve her love, It should have never been love in the first place, and She should have gotten over her murderer a long time ago.

 

I remember seeing the panel right before she gives her speech where she looks at Sasuke, then at Naruto, and gets pissed. I thought that she was going to tear Sasuke a new one, finally demand respect from him and call both him and the entire fandom out saying "I am not a girl anymore, I am a grown woman and it is time to cut your kitten." But instead she called herself pathetic and professed her love to her abuser. Before anyone says that it was different check the 693 confession to the part 1 confession. They match up almost perfectly. Confess, call self pathetic, get put to sleep so the boys can play.

 

Now I've seen many ppl say that Sakura's main goal was to be recognized by Sasuke but that is simply not true and points out exactly how sexist you are. Before Sakura met Sasuke she was teased for her forehead. Than Ino saved her and they became friends. But Sakura was jealous of Ino's strength. Sakura's goal was never Sasuke, but to become a person who had enough success and confidence in herself that she would be worthy of respect. Why else have her say that she would match Sasuke and Naruto, surpass Tsunade, and more importantly have Granny Chiyo say "You will become a great Kunoichi." 

 

Sakura represented weakness, therefore her goal is to achieve strength and self-confidence. But what did she call her love for Sasuke? Pathetic and PAthetic is just another word for weakness

 

SS is despicable. It is a one-sided relationship built on the ideas of abuse, obsession, and abandonment. We rarely have a panel where any romance is shown from Sasuke's side.Even Kishimoto could not bring himself to show any real SS. That is why Sasuke is alone in 700 and ditches Sakura in 699. They're both adults, she could have gone with him. But Kishi knows how wrong SS is and that's why he never showed it in the ending, or even the movie where it got 0 focus and the supposed necklace turned out to be Sakura's father's.

 

But in the end it comes down to which ideals a person believes in and supports when it comes to a serious drama like Naruto. Do you believe in abuse, obsession, and sexism? SS is perfect for you. Do you believe in devotion, rushed development, and setting all else aside for your hero? Than NH is perfect for you.

 

But do you believe in building each other up, support, never giving up on your dreams, sacrificing for the one you love, and putting the wants and needs of the one you love above even your own? Than NS is the pairing for you.

[James S Cassidy]

And this is why i still believe that we are still not seeing the whole picture.

 

There's this feeling in the back of my brain. Call it spidey sense or whatever. But something just doesnt add up.

I am still in a strong belief that Kishimoto was forced to make NH canon and this is why he cannot get his story straight. Why there are so many mistakes in the final chapter because it is so rushed and why all of this stuff makes no sense. SP kittened it up even for Kishimoto.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I am still in a strong belief that Kishimoto was forced to make NH canon and this is why he cannot get his story straight. Why there are so many mistakes in the final chapter because it is so rushed and why all of this stuff makes no sense. SP f**cked it up even for Kishimoto.

 

I wouldn't be surprised, James, since they've shown serious bias toward Hinata and trying to benefit from the popularity of Nana Mizuki, which is a tragedy for sure... :(