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The NEW NaruSaku Debate Thread


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#50201 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 02:53 AM

I find that the fans of a series are far more accepting of less human-looking characters, especially females, than random people would be. However this isn't really the case for the Japanese who tend to make a female character look human even if her counterparts are freaks (see Pilaf's group in Dragon Ball) Given that Hinata is one of the only female characters in Naruto that doesn't look totally normal, it's one more reason why NH would not have happened without the Western audience

Other then a few girls with ridiculously large breasts; every woman outside the hyuuga looks normal enough. What makes Hinata appealing to her fans is her personality, or more accurately girls like her because she is just like them (shy but secretly the most beautiful in the land which is why John should be with me and not that slut) or for guys she is their perfect women (obedient rich worships the ground they walk on never question them better then the friend-zoning slut Jane how dare she not realize what a Nice Guy I am.)


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 February 2019 - 04:58 AM.


#50202 DrK

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 03:39 AM

Other then a few girls with ridiculously large breasts; every woman outside the hyuuga looks normal enough. What makes Hinata appealing to her fans is her personality, or more accurately girls like her because she just like them (shy but secretly the most beautiful in the land which is why John should be with me and not that slut) or for guys she their perfect women (obedient rich worships the ground they walk on never question them better then the friend-zoning slut Jane how dare she not realize what a Nice Guy I am.)

Yeah, of course. I'm just saying that the group of people who would not want Hinata to be with the main character simply because she looks weird is bigger than most people probably think. Setting aside the story. You just don't hear from those kinds of fans very often because Westerners are generally more accepting of weirdness in their fictional characters, and especially in their fictional girls and women.



#50203 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 06:37 AM

Early on in the Naruto manga, there was so much emphasis on a 'ninja' mindset - from the clothes to the hidden villages to the mission levels to the ninja ranks, etc. And there was an order through the nations, like when they assembled ninjas from all over for the rank exams. 

 

Not a real-life ninja, of course, which would have been completely clan oriented and secretive. (Not good for story building - lol.) But the Naruto was set in a world where ninjas were the prime military force they way samurai were in reallife. So it all made sense, storywise. Even the loud clothes weren't such a big deal because everyone was a ninja. So there wasn't such a need to be in dark clothes. Just to have secretive techniques. 

 

This all unraveled in the end, of course. Even the idea of Naruto being a genin who ascends to Kage without ever passing any other ranks was completley abandoned. So the early framework of the story was forgotten. By the end, it wouldn't have mattered if Naruto and Sasuke were even ninjas or not! There was nothing that even tied them to that origin story!

 

And then they brought in actual samurai with the Land of Iron...who could also use chakra to a degree...
 

Yeah, of course. I'm just saying that the group of people who would not want Hinata to be with the main character simply because she looks weird is bigger than most people probably think. Setting aside the story. You just don't hear from those kinds of fans very often because Westerners are generally more accepting of weirdness in their fictional characters, and especially in their fictional girls and women.

Which goes back to what I brought up before - if Hinatatas didn't have her bewbs and "goddess" looks and was an ugly duckling instead (but otherwise exactly the same), I'm more than certain that most (Western) males would NEVER consider her as a romantic partner (for Naruto or themselves) and would probably even point out her lack of personality as another reason on top of her ugliness.


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#50204 thelordofspace72

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 11:20 AM

Link for that video? Anyways by the sound of it the second guy didn't pick Salad because the glasses didn't look good on her, not because the daughter is actually attractive; also probably because he got what the other guy was a wanting him to say by that point. The first guy sounds desperate for random people to consider Hinata and her spawn such beauties that from a glance anyone would acknowledge could defeat anyone in terms of looks.

 

Initially, the man who chose Sakura before interviewing him said that the pink-haired girls seemed more beautiful to him than the black-haired girls. The person who questioned him thought he might be able to change his mind if he saw him, Sakura and Hinata, and so on. The man (who was asked) believed that he might be able to insult Sakura, but justice always triumphs.
 
I wish I could give you the link to the videos but the videos language is in Arabic, so no one except me would understand it.

Edited by thelordofspace72, 09 February 2019 - 11:23 AM.


#50205 KClaws_2

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 11:26 AM

 

 

 

 

I think the problem was the whole "World Peace" BS that existed in the original Naruto. If it was just the story about a boy going from nothing to be the best, than sure....it could work. It works in Deku's case in MHA. He is not "trying to solve all crime." He is trying to be a great superhero which is a far more achievable goal.

Naruto's goal of world peace is just an unrealistic pipe dream because it is basically impossible. We can get close, sure, but there will always be someone who causes stir in the pot. People will cause trouble because they want it their way. What should have been world peace should of instead been "I want to unite the nations." An actual feasible goal and yet leaves open for more conflicts to arise up. I think this why they keep using the "clan on the moon Kaguya kids" is because if they have the other nations arise conflict, then it paints the characters in the bad light. At least they tried avoiding this...until they turned originally good guys into bad guys because "reasons" and had them be huge jerks. That one dude with the minigun basically the plot was just like Goldeneye. 006 gets shot in the head, comes back alive, and is now evil for some reason and is heavily scarred.

Now, because the original story pushed for this "world peace" goal, any conflict in the future will look like Naruto is a big failure. So, the problem doesn't really stem from Boruto itself existing, but rather what the original goal of the previous series was. Not to say Boruto still isn't crap, but saying this problem starts long before Boruto even existed. Boruto is just proving the point that "World peace" is at best a temporary thing and it COULD work if the characters actually lampshade how stupid the idea is. Sasuke tried to show how stupid world peace is by saying that conflict will always arise, but if he remains that the scapegoat and be the ultimate villain, then the nations will always rise up to battle him and create temporary peace. Then Sasuke just laid down and accepted the BS Naruto fed him because "reasons," and now they are shocked like that pikachu meme when kitten hits the fan.

If you want peace, prepare for war.

 

Genetics are such a weird concept that writers try to implement, but never go beyond trivial explanations. Like you said, what were the chances that mixing Hyuga and Uzumaki DNA would create genetic defects. I don't know why writers don't really do research into what they are writing. It just baffles me. Just do a little research outside of it. Of course, Kishimoto stopped caring about genetics when he gave the kids whiskers, but NOT the Byakugan right off the bat. He had to be "reminded" to give them the Byakugan and gave this half assed explanation of "well, they can turn it on and off like a Sharingan. So Himawari can have both her blue eyes and Children of the corn eyes." Let's not even talk about Boruto's "Life hax more powerful than Rinnegan I can see souls eyes."

He especially betrayed the the genetics when he specifically said earlier that the whiskers were a cause of the MOTHER being the jinchuriki and the Fox's chakra influencing Naruto's as he was being born and coming in contact with Kurama for 9 months. This is further proven that when the Gold and Silver Brothers also had the whiskers cause they ate the stomach lining of Kurama and gained his chakra boosts and thus gained the whiskers. It is supposed to be the influence of Kurama's chakra on the person that gives them whiskers. It has nothing to do with genetics what so ever. So Boruto and Himawari should NOT have whiskers cause it is NOT a genetic trait. Boruto is not a jinchuriki nor ate Kurama flesh, Hinata is NOT a jinchuriki, so how in the world do they have whiskers? Oh and added that the GandS Brothers had three whiskers as well and yet Kushina did not despite actually being the vessel for it. Minato got whiskers he unlocked in Bijuu mode. Speaking of which, why do Boruto and Himawari only have 2 when everyone else has 3?

So this whole thing with Boruto and Himawari having whiskers is just one thing right off the bat that Kishimoto either didn't know what he was talking about or really just a BSed excuse to tell people "Boruto and Himwari are his kids." It is stupid. This is why you never see fan art of Shinachiku with whiskers because WE KNOW that trait is not passed down through genetics. It is passed through Kurama's chakra exposure.

It is also VERY stupid that when it comes to this, the arguments get ridiculous because now the proenders are using these faux genetic markers to prove parentage.
"Salad can use Sakura's techniques. That is proof she is her kid." The techniques Salad uses is NOT one that is based down genetically. Anyone has the potential to learn it...even Naruto if he wanted. As well, so are you saying Tsunade and Sakura are blood related because they both have the same techniques?

So how the hell did things that are not originally passed down genetically all of a sudden are now passed down genetically and things that SHOULD be passed genetically are not? It is little things like this that show how and why this all was a rush job. They disregarded the canon that already existed to created a new one and retconned how genetics work only to go back and redo it so that "oops, well now it is passed down genetically."

And this is just a minor detail. One small detail added to make Boruto and Himawari branded as Naruto's kids is the one thing that destroys the very nature of the canon right out of the starting gate. This small detail is proof of their "retcon deception." And they can't say they easily "forgot" because the Gold and Silver Brother's whiskers was a concept being published during the war arc during the development of Naruto the last and Boruto and Himawari's designs. So that means they did it on purpose. They purposely gave them whiskers despite the canon itself saying it should be impossible for them to have them.

*slow claps* Good job, writing team. Continuity be damned.
 

 

 

I was originally hoping this peace thing would be addressed by having Naruto make things BETTER, not perfect. If Naruto paved the way to peace, well, congratulations! Now every ninja is unemployed! 

I appreciate these writers try to build up our better nature, but to praise human nature is to also acknowledge our dark side. There is always going to be someone who starts trouble. Maybe it's for money, maybe they've got a vendetta, maybe they're just plain psychotic! We will NEVER have a utopia, and if we did it would probably be more of a dystopia anyway.

 

As for writers not doing research, there are two simple explanations: They don't have time, and even if they did, they probably wouldn't know where to look. Stan Lee once talked about this back when they were making their characters in the 60s. He used radiation a lot because it sounded scientific, but confessed it was probably way more colorful than real life, explaining "We simply didn't have time to properly research this stuff".

I imagine Kishimoto nor his staff didn't have much of a background in genetics, which is fine. A lot of perfectly smart people don't. As you said, the problem is that he makes these rules about inheritance and phenotypes in his world, and suddenly doesn't follow through with them. I imagine he forgot he even said those things, which in some series wouldn't be a big deal, but in a world with a bunch of bloodlines highlighted those would sound pretty important to me.

 

Not to mention that the new threats to create conflict has become "aliens from outer space!!!!!" So this is not even about ninjas anymore. And even if they are not aliens, the concept is the same since threats must be extraterrestrial now to one up the Kaguya fight.  

Considering all the crazy things we had ninja do not only in Naruto but other media, it is honestly not that out of this world (pardon the pun). But to fight these aliens Naruto and Sasuke have to rely on mystical powers, which have nothing to do with actual ninjas.

At least Kishi let Sakura punch Kaguya in the head.

 

You ever notice that when Naruto makes an appearance in games like Jump Force or promotions they never use the Boruto's Dad version? They always use the original Naruto that was there since the Pein Arc. Personality and all. Why? Because people are not stupid and know that the Naruto you see in Boruto is NOT the real Naruto. Like you all said, that is Nardo and the anime companies know this. The anime websites know this. That's why they never put Nardo in anything.

And yet, they willingly use older Goku, Ichigo, Luffy, and so many other characters. Why? Because they got better when they got older, not worse. People who are blind to the fact that Nardo is not real (essentially that Naruto is still the same as before) will openly use the younger Naruto and not the older Nardo.

In Goku's case, his adult years really took off due to the intense fighting and power ups, and I think that's the favorite version of Goku for most fans.

With others, they had arcs to show their growth and usually their designs were somewhere in the range of what they were before.

However, Naruto's character stayed stagnant (if not went 180, at least in the Last), and his appearance is unrecognizable. He looks like a distant relative of himself at best.

I remember when one of the earlier Naruto games included a costume where Naruto wore the Hokage cape and hat on his back, but kept his Shippuden hairstyle.I think everyone liked that one. But the current adult Naruto just looks so bland aesthetically, even with the colors.

 

 

 

 

Was it ever much more than ninja themed, though? Hell, even that was tenuous. It was a series centered around ninjas that never really seemed to be about ninjas as much as people in bright colors engaging in DBZ fights in a world that couldn't even decide what technological age it was. You could have made them all samurai and I don't think it would have changed the story overly much.

To be fair, ninjas and other warrior cultures tend to be romanticized. Ryu Hayabusa just runs right up to his enemies and cuts them to ribbons. They implemented stealth in the 3rd game, but that didn't go well (and all it really was was tiptoeing behind a guy before killing him). Taki wears red, which would have NEVER blended in with anything (plus she's too top heavy to be a ninja. In fact, too many fictional kunoichi are too top heavy to do what they do without proper supports).

And let's not forget the NInja Turtles in the 80s. They did no sneaking and as time went on almost NEVER used their weapons until the Red Sky seasons. And even then they were relying more on sci-fi devices and those horrible second mutations they would change into at random. 

Knights and Samurai have a similar issue as well. Media likes to portray these guys as noble and honorable warriors who would follow a code, if not be outright heroic. However, the honor for both was defined by their obedience to their masters. Slaughter a village? They'd do that. Rape someone? Sure! Use underhanded tactics in a war? As long as the leader says it's okay! 

And then the Vikings. A lot of people like the idea of being Vikings, sailing the seas to uncharted lands and killing monsters with big axes. But they made their living by plundering their neighbors. 

All I'm saying is that Naruto is hardly the first and only offender in this regard.

 

Maybe they got inspired by "Power Ranger in space" , that's why they want to create the first ever in the history of manga and anime "Ninja in space!!"

:lmao: :lmao:

 

They must think like this when they have a meeting regarding the future of the franchise.

Look the western / the american love Star Wars , they also make power ranger in space , since our own country has abandon this franchise we should cater to them. SCI-FI Ninja in space would be a very brilliant idea!!

Ironically, the sentai which PRIS is based on was originally a VIDEO GAME themed series. The producers at Fox simply went for broke to make their own thing, reuse some old costumes believing it would be the last Power Rangers season.

 

If that's what happened, it's stupid to implement that into an established series, especially when there already so many others that do that same thing.



#50206 James S Cassidy

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 05:07 PM

In Goku's case, his adult years really took off due to the intense fighting and power ups, and I think that's the favorite version of Goku for most fans.

With others, they had arcs to show their growth and usually their designs were somewhere in the range of what they were before.

However, Naruto's character stayed stagnant (if not went 180, at least in the Last), and his appearance is unrecognizable. He looks like a distant relative of himself at best.

I remember when one of the earlier Naruto games included a costume where Naruto wore the Hokage cape and hat on his back, but kept his Shippuden hairstyle.I think everyone liked that one. But the current adult Naruto just looks so bland aesthetically, even with the colors.

It's just interesting in that whenever they show these characters; Goku, Ichigo, and so many other heroes; they always willing to show a more matured version of the character.

Goku usually has his iconic Gi and not the symbols anymore on it.

Ichigo they show the Hollow decor straps with his double blades.
Luffy they have him, not as his early days, but him with the scars and stuff to indicate wear and tear

Naruto they always choose Shippuden look with Shinobi war powers. Do they think Naruto the Last and Boruto looks are not iconic enough or do they think they just look horrible?

I first noticed this in Jump Force where I thought "Why are they using Naruto and Sasuke Shinobi war and not Boruto versions of them?" I thought it was coincidence, but it is not. 9/10 when people advertise Naruto especially on American sites, they always use Shippuden Naruto with Boruto Naruto powers. Why the other characters they have no problems showing the "older" and more war torn versions.

This is a minor notices, but it makes me wonder that if Boruto is so great, why not use those versions? Is it because people don't like the Boruto's dad or because we all agree it is not Naruto and the REAL Naruto is pre-BS retcon movie.

P.S. Went back on tumblr today after not being on it after a while. Forgot why I left and now remembered why. This is why I don't own a twitter either.


Edited by James S Cassidy, 09 February 2019 - 07:31 PM.

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#50207 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 09:26 PM

Initially, the man who chose Sakura before interviewing him said that the pink-haired girls seemed more beautiful to him than the black-haired girls. The person who questioned him thought he might be able to change his mind if he saw him, Sakura and Hinata, and so on. The man (who was asked) believed that he might be able to insult Sakura, but justice always triumphs.

 
I wish I could give you the link to the videos but the videos language is in Arabic, so no one except me would understand it.

We could still understand their facial expression, we already understand the content to a degree from you other post.



#50208 thelordofspace72

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 07:13 PM

We could still understand their facial expression, we already understand the content to a degree from you other post.

well if you insist:

 

the first meet

go to the time 3:56

https://youtu.be/FzneyZTZQpI

 

 

the 2nd meet
go to the time 5:46
 

 

the 3rd meet
go to the time 4:42

Edited by thelordofspace72, 10 February 2019 - 07:14 PM.


#50209 Phantom_999

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 08:42 PM

Again the idea is not of beauty or the like and who is more physically attractive in general. It is the fact that Sakura has always been put in the "situations that almost definitely designates a character as a love interest", and that she becomes emotionally closer to Naruto as time passes. If she was NOT meant to be the love interest, well why not give Hinata the the "intimate and romantically implicit" scenes that Sakura was in? The trick of making a character very emotionally close to the Main character but is not the love interest is that you have to give the actual love interest some screen time with the main character and there must be mutual attraction whether it is obvious or even just hinted at, which there was NOTHING with Hinata. Who was hugging Naruto in front to the entire village even though there was no actual reason to? Not Hinata. Who was offering to feed Naruto when he could not use his right hand for chop sticks? Not Hinata. Who actually verbally encourages Naruto towards his aspirations and gives him much needed support when he is in emotional distress? Again, Not Hinata. Who was it? She has pink hair. That is all.
 
The very fact that the Last was created as a way of rushing development to promote the NaruHina ship means even SP or Kishimoto admits Naruto was never attracted to Hinata for the manga's entire run. The fact is that, whether or not any Anti-NS fans or anti-Sakura fans admit it, Sakura WAS the love interest. Almost all of the manga supported it and other characters could see it, which is why NaruHina coming at the end was an @$$pull and SasuSaku was an ATROCITY. Naruto never had any romantic developments with Hinata because those so called moments with Hinata could be replaced by several other K11 members that he actually talks to or is much more relatable to and it would still make just as much sense if not the exact same context or dialogue. Whereas Sasuke showed that he treated Sakura as a friend only/ member of Team 7 at best or a nuisance/ no one to concern himself with at worst (He doesn't indicate he'd lose sleep if he killed Sakura or if she died in front of him does he?), so HOW BELIEVABLE WAS IT that these two couples fell in love and had kids together? NOT AT ALL.


Edited by Phantom_999, 16 May 2019 - 09:08 PM.

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#50210 James S Cassidy

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 05:10 PM

Again the idea is not of beauty or the like and who is more physically attractive in general. It is the fact that Sakura has always been put in the "situations that almost definitely designates a character as a love interest", and that she becomes emotionally closer to Naruto as time passes. If she was NOT meant to be the love interest, well why not give Hinata the the "intimate and romantically implicit" scenes that Sakura was in? The trick of making a character very emotionally close to the Main character but is not the love interest is that you have to give the actual love interest some screen time with the main character and there must be mutual attraction whether it is obvious or even just hinted at, which there was NOTHING with Hinata. Who was hugging Naruto in front to the entire village even though there was no actual reason to? Not Hinata. Who was offering to feed Naruto when he could not use his right hand for chop sticks? Not Hinata. Who actually verbally encourages Naruto towards his aspirations and gives him much needed support when he is in emotional distress? Again, Not Hinata. Who was it? She has pink hair. That is all.
 
The very fact that the Last was created as a way of rushing development to promote the NaruHina ship means even SP or Kishimoto admits Naruto was never attracted to Hinata for the manga's entire run. The fact is that, whether or not any Anti-NS fans or anti-Sakura fans admit it, Sakura WAS the love interest. Almost all of the manga supported it and other characters could see it, which is why NaruHina coming at the end was an @$$pull and SasuSaku was an ATROCITY. Naruto never had any romantic developments with Hinata because those so called moments with Hinata could be replaced by several other K11 members that he actually talks to or is much more relatable to and it would still make just as much sense if not the exact same context or dialogue. Whereas Sasuke showed that he treated Sakura as a friend only/ member of Team 7 at best or a nuisance/ no one to concern himself with at worst (He doesn't indicate he'd lose sleep if he killed Sakura or she died in front of him does he?), so HOW BELIEVABLE WAS IT that these two couples fell in love and had kids together? NOT AT ALL.

Basically, the fact that Naruto the Last exist defeats its own logic and it is still a question that intimidates many pro-enders I come across. They won't admit that NH was a retcon. They won't admit that Kishimoto didn't give a crap. They won't even admit when I point out the NYCC 2016 interviews where Kishimoto admits that NaruHina is a basically a guilt trip and SS is a drug addiction.

It is sad when you point out this stuff and they downright deny it. They just refuse to accept anything that goes against their fantasy.

Shipping wars and pairing fans have ruined every media story they come across. Same thing is happening with RWBY too. Alot of fans and friends I talk to who used to love RWBY say that the pairing fan service of "Bumblebee" or whatever has ruined the story and ruined a character such as Adam. The dude went from a terrorist to a rapist and people are mad that the "ambiguously lesbian duo of Blake and Yang took him down because "men are evil."" I am not kidding about this either.

This is a HORRIBLE plague that is ruining all good anime shows. People are caring more about pairing fan service rather than story and just destroying good stories to push an agenda.

Admittedly, I was shipping in RWBY too with Juane and Pyrrah and later Lancaster (Jaune and Ruby,) but I never let my OTP interfere with how I felt about the story. Like I mentioned with Fruits Basket, I was a Tohru and Yuki shipper, but it didn't bother me they didn't become a thing. I was more pissed off about the entire story taking a radical turn and just coming up with things out of nowhere like Akito being a female, Kyo being able to save Tohru's mother, and all the dark kitten from Shigure who went from a lovable goofball to a nasty dark individual. I also hated the whole "Yuki loved Tohru like a mother." That is a piss poor excuse why they didn't end up together. It is better to have someone fall in love with you and understand that it is not requited than to make a poor excuse that the love you thought it was was a misdirection.

This is why NH and SS feel garbage tier too and why saying "NS was a red herring" is not only an insult to NS fans, but to all Naruto fans who actually read the story. You can't jsut say off the cuff of your sleeve "It is a red herring, now let me keep feeding you NS scenes to show how horrible it is while making the MC ignored the supposed true love interest because "I can't write females."

I am kind of glad Kishimoto or even SP didn't do a Minato Gaiden because they probably would have turned Kushina from a tsundere to a Dandere.

 


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#50211 Phantom_999

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:48 PM

Yup, the only type of fans that enjoy and support this ending are stuck in their lala-land and their "ideal romance". They don't care that the story was demolished to make Naruto a couple with Hinata, nor do they care that there was no development between them. And that second point is especially important because here is the fact of the matter regarding the prime and most loved argument that pro NH fans pull out of their a-holes; Naruto is not a romance manga. Well guess what?

 

Regardless of whether or not a story is about romance, for a couple to make sense in a story they need to have plot indication and support. just because a story does not have romance as a focal point doesn't mean that making a couple can not make sense in context because then that means that a character can get with another character for no reason and so it doesn't have to be your preference. If "not a romance" means no development is needed except for feeling horny/ love at first sight, that means you can't complain about who character A ends up with, whether it is b, c, d to x, y, or z. Here I'll give that logic a whirl. "Naruto is not a romance manga so it makes perfect sense for Naruto to get together with Tenten, Ino, any of the countless filler episode or movie girls, (i.e. Shion, Hotaru, Princess Sera, etc.) Shizune, or Tsunade". (because he actually loves grown women/has gmilf urges) Hey, "not a romance" means no context is necessary for a couple to be offical right, so why does it have to be Hinata that marries Naruto? Does it sound stupid and wrong? Yes? Then don't use "not a romance" as an argument/excuse.

 

Any shonen manga that does not have a romantic plot line STILL has a love interest if not multiple, and there still must be development and context between the love interest and the main character for it to work out. You don't see Ichigo get so much development with Orihime (whom he marries) or Rukia and then that development is blown out of the water and he gets together with Rangiku Matsumoto. You don't see Edward and Winry giving outright confirmation of their love for each other then he gets together with May Chang "because reasons." Dragon ball, that Naruto rips off a lot from, including the excuse as to why Naruto never noticed Hinata til "Naruto the Last" makes sense in it's own context because Goku never knew what romance and attraction was. Was he interested in Bulma? No. Was he interested in Launch? No. he DID fall in love with Chichi after but that was after he kept his word on his proposal because he was taught to not break promises. Naruto does not have that context because Naruto does know what love is, since he is asking Sakura for dates on occasion, jumps through loops and bends his back over to make her happy even if it means giving up his own, plus even asks his own mother how she and his father fell in love. But he does not even go out of his way for Hinata to walk her home at night in "The Last" movie, so what does that mean? Either Naruto's "the last" personality is canon and he gives no effs about Hinata's confession during Pain's invasion, or he DOES know what love is and his "the last" personality is an @$$pull so he DOES NOT LOVE HINATA. Either way it does not look good for his so called "true love", now does it?

 

Even in shonen manga that does have romance as the main plot, the point still stands that developing the couple to make their union convincing and believable is an author's job. if the development goes out the window, so does the story and it does not matter if it is about romance or not. Again for example, In Love Hina, does it make sense for Keitaro and Naru to be pushed as the main couple for the entire story only to have Keitaro marry Mitsumi at the last second and Naru marrying the teacher she has a crush on, Noriyasu? What about the popular works of Rumiko Takahashi? Does she set up Ranma with Shampoo and Akane with Ryouga at the end of Ranma 1/2? In Inuyasha, at the end of the manga does Kagome run into the arms of Koga and Inuyasha commits suicide to be with Kikyo? Does it make sense if that DID happen? No? Well Naruto did exactly just that. Hinata and Sasuke were all those  characters/side characters that barely had development with the main character, if at all, to make getting together with said main character believable  (NaruHina), or is plot determined to not be the one that a character chooses as a romantic partner (SasuSaku), yet here we are.

 

Ultimately, Naruto had the most  and almost exclusive development with Sakura, and they showed the traits of a healthy and stable couple. I've said this already, an actual equal and healthy couple are those that seem indistinguishable from friends, showing that they are relaxed and comfortable around each other and know their significant other in the most intimate of levels. But the the only difference between friendship and romance is again the romantic aspect and child making/child rearing potentially. I don't see any emotional intimacy or closeness with NaruHina and DEFINITELY NOT with SasuSaku. Alright, rant over.


Edited by Phantom_999, 05 June 2019 - 12:51 AM.

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#50212 James S Cassidy

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 04:33 PM

Yup, the only type of fans that enjoy and support this ending are stuck in their lala-land and their "ideal romance". They don't care that the story was demolished to make Naruto a couple with Hinata, nor do they care that there was no development between them. And that second point is especially important because here is the fact of the matter regarding the prime and most loved argument that pro NH fans pull out of their a-holes; Naruto is not a romance manga. Well guess what?

 

Regardless of whether or not a story is about romance, for a couple to make sense in a story they need to have plot indication and support. just because a story does not have romance as a focal point doesn't mean that making a couple can not make sense in context because then that means that a character can get with another character for no reason and so it doesn't have to be your preference. If "not a romance" means no development is needed except for feeling horny/ love at first sight, that means you can't complain about who character A ends up with, whether it is b, c, d to x, y, or z. Here I'll give that logic a whirl. "Naruto is not a romance manga so it makes perfect sense for Naruto to get together with Tenten, Ino, any of the countless filler episode or movie girls, (i.e. Shion, Hotaru, Princess Sera, etc.) Shizune, or Tsunade". (because he actually loves grown women/has gmilf urges) Hey, "not a romance" means no context is necessary for a couple to be offical right, so why does it have to be Hinata that marries Naruto? Does it sound stupid and wrong? Yes? Then don't use "not a romance" as an argument/excuse.

 

Any shonen manga that does not have a romantic plot line STILL has a love interest if not multiple, and there still must be development and context between the love interest and the main character for it to work out. You don't see Ichigo get so much development with Orihime (whom he marries) or Rukia and then that development is blown out of the water and he gets together with Rangiku Matsumoto. You don't see Edward and Winry giving outright confirmation of their love for each other then he gets together with May Chang "because reasons." Dragon ball, that Naruto rips off a lot from, including the excuse as to why Naruto never noticed Hinata til "Naruto the Last" makes sense in it's own context because Goku never knew what romance and attraction was. Was he interested in Bulma? No. Was he interested in Launch? No. he DID fall in love with Chichi after but that was after he kept his word on his proposal because he was taught to not break promises. Naruto does not have that context because Naruto does know what love is, since he is asking Sakura for dates on occasion, jumps through loops and bends his back over to make her happy even if it means giving up his own, plus even asks his own mother how she and his father fell in love. But he does not even go out of his way for Hinata to walk her home at night in "The Last" movie, so what does that mean? Either Naruto's "the last" personality is canon and he gives no effs about Hinata's confession during Pain's invasion, or he DOES know what love is and his "the last" personality is an @$$pull and he DOES NOT LOVE HINATA. Either way it does not look good for his so called "true love", now does it?

 

Even in shonen manga that does have romance as the main plot, the point still stands that developing the couple to make their union convincing and believable is an author's job. if the development goes out the window, so does the story and it does not matter if it is about romance or not. Again for example, In Love Hina, does it make sense for Keitaro and Naru to be pushed as the main couple for the entire story only to have Keitaro marry Mitsumi at the last second and Naru marrying the teacher she has a crush on, Noriyasu? What about the popular works of Rumiko Takahashi? Does she set up Ranma with Shampoo and Akane with Ryouga at the end of Ranma 1/2? In Inuyasha, at the end of the manga does Kagome run into the arms of Koga and Inuyasha commits suicide to be with Kikyo? Does it make sense if that DID happen? No? Well Naruto did exactly just that. Hinata and Sasuke were all those  characters/side characters that barely had development with the main character, if at all, to make getting together with said main character believable  (NaruHina), or is plot determined to not be the one the a character chooses as a romantic partner (SasuSaku), yet here we are.

 

Ultimately, Naruto had the most  and almost exclusive development with Sakura, and they showed the traits of a healthy and stable couple. I've said this already, an actual equal and healthy couple are those that seem indistinguishable from friends, showing that they are relaxed and comfortable around each other and know their significant other in the most intimate of levels. But the the only difference between friendship and romance is again the romantic aspect and child making/child rearing potentially. I don't see any emotional intimacy or closeness with NaruHina and DEFINITELY NOT with SasuSaku. Alright, rant over.

My whole line just sums it all up perfectly.

You chop off your leg so as to not shoot yourself in the foot.

Which leads them to not have a leg to stand on.


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#50213 HalfDemonInuyasha

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 08:45 PM

Funny thing is that most of those other girls; main story, filler, or movie, would make far more sense for Naruto than Hinatatas, if only because he actually spent time interacting with a number of them.

Heck, one could say Shion is what NHers WANT Hinatatas to be (even looking a little similar).


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#50214 LuckyChi7

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 09:42 PM

Funny thing is that most of those other girls; main story, filler, or movie, would make far more sense for Naruto than Hinatatas, if only because he actually spent time interacting with a number of them.

Heck, one could say Shion is what NHers WANT Hinatatas to be (even looking a little similar).

 

0d92d89500cb80_full.jpg

 

 

 

I see the resemblance quite well between those two.  One (we know who) just has good looks, but no character (even chemistry at that).  The other one (Shion) not only looks pretty, but has actual character even legit chemistry with Naruto. 

 

 

It's honestly quite sad that a movie only heroine has more chemistry than the canon love interest.... 

 

 

Hell, If Shion was the character we got instead of Hinata I wouldn't have any complaints at all. 


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#50215 DrK

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:25 PM

It's honestly quite sad that a movie only heroine has more chemistry than the canon love interest.... 

When you really think about it, it's an apples to apples comparison. It's only in movies that Naruto treats either of them as his love interest.



#50216 Derock

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 10:42 PM

 

0d92d89500cb80_full.jpg

 

 

 

I see the resemblance quite well between those two.  One (we know who) just has good looks, but no character (even chemistry at that).  The other one (Shion) not only looks pretty, but has actual character even legit chemistry with Naruto. 

 

 

It's honestly quite sad that a movie only heroine has more chemistry than the canon love interest.... 

 

 

Hell, If Shion was the character we got instead of Hinata I wouldn't have any complaints at all. 

 

Its scary and ironic to see that Shion looks like a Hyuuga reject with blonde hair and a better personality at that.  Though I didn't even care for the first Shippuden movie. They were teasing the Naruto's "death" scene with Sakura's cries back when it was announced but then came a different result by creating Shion.


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#50217 tricksie

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 04:43 AM

 

0d92d89500cb80_full.jpg

 

 

 

I see the resemblance quite well between those two.  One (we know who) just has good looks, but no character (even chemistry at that).  The other one (Shion) not only looks pretty, but has actual character even legit chemistry with Naruto. 

 

 

It's honestly quite sad that a movie only heroine has more chemistry than the canon love interest.... 

 

 

Hell, If Shion was the character we got instead of Hinata I wouldn't have any complaints at all. 

I wonder if she was the most popular heroine of the movies. (I can't remember any others, actually.) But I wonder, in a list of overall of Naruto female leads (anime and movies), how high up Shion placed? I'm betting she placed pretty high. What I'm getting at is I wonder if Hinata's end character change/pairing with Naruto was influenced by the chemistry of a Hinata-look-alike in the movie? 



#50218 jak123

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 02:38 PM

 

Its scary and ironic to see that Shion looks like a Hyuuga reject with blonde hair and a better personality at that.  Though I didn't even care for the first Shippuden movie. They were teasing the Naruto's "death" scene with Sakura's cries back when it was announced but then came a different result by creating Shion.

Wait Naruto is gonna die and Sakura was the one crying?



#50219 Derock

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 02:45 PM

Wait Naruto is gonna die and Sakura was the one crying?

 

Yep. They teased that in the beginning when they announced the movie. But months later, we had a similar premise when Shion and the villains' debuted in the detailed trailer.

 

(The hell is going on? I couldn't post my reply but I had to click on Remember Me at work? o.O )


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#50220 tricksie

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 03:30 PM

Eh...so they've been replacing Sakura since the beginning. Jerks.






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