54175 replies to this topic

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Kiba, Kurenai, and Shino also thought Naruto was a loser too...so what does that mean?

You mean to tell me that Kiba, Kurenai, and Shina wanted their teammate to get with a person they thought was a loser? Maybe they hated Hinata too if they thought she was so worthless that only a loser can get with a loser.

Hey, Hinata was the only one who liked Naruto, right? If they are going to judge Sakura by first impression, then we have to judge everyone else by first impressions, because I know the response to this they would give would be "Well, they change their mind about Naruto later in the series." So they acknowledge everyone's development, but Sakura's.

More proof of their bias.

 

Amen to that, James, and it shows how the NH fans really never gave a damn about Naruto or anyone else and how they were written, which is further proof they are full of kitten when they have their lame-ass excuses about NH getting together just to say they were right and we were "wrong", even if basically they just keep showing their bias too much, which is stupid. XP

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

From what I recall Kiba, Kurenai, and Shino supported her... then again that entire team is pretty much forgotten about by kishi to the point that when they are brought up it is to acknowledge the fact that they are unimportant. Hinata was only save from that fate by the editors.

Heck, when you think about it, Team Eight may as well be called "Team Unimportant". First of all, they're put together primarily as a scouting team, as in a team that's more about gathering information and such (which we never really see them do, at least not well) rather than fighting (despite ones like at least Kiba and Hinatatas being part of it, whose clans are more combat-oriented) which already puts them behind all the other, more combat-oriented teams in terms of interest.

Kiba - "Poor man's Naruto". Made to look inept by losing his Chunin Exam match against because of a freaking FART.

Shino - Constantly ignored / unnoticed so much that it becomes an attempted running joke (you see a similar thing with Daichi / "Bastion" Misawa in Yu-Gi-Oh! GX).

Kurenai - Introduced as a Genjutsu prodigy, one of the youngest new Jonin, before being effortlessly owned by Itachi and then promptly forgotten about; only shown briefly to show us she's pregnant before disappearing while being evacuated, even showing us a flashback of her father during Kurama's attack and his outdated "women belong in the kitchen and taking care of children" speech.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Heck, when you think about it, Team Eight may as well be called "Team Unimportant". First of all, they're put together primarily as a scouting team, as in a team that's more about gathering information and such (which we never really see them do, at least not well) rather than fighting (despite ones like at least Kiba and Hinatatas being part of it, whose clans are more combat-oriented) which already puts them behind all the other, more combat-oriented teams in terms of interest.

Kiba - "Poor man's Naruto". Made to look inept by losing his Chunin Exam match against because of a freaking FART.

Shino - Constantly ignored / unnoticed so much that it becomes an attempted running joke (you see a similar thing with Daichi / "Bastion" Misawa in Yu-Gi-Oh! GX).

Kurenai - Introduced as a Genjutsu prodigy, one of the youngest new Jonin, before being effortlessly owned by Itachi and then promptly forgotten about; only shown briefly to show us she's pregnant before disappearing while being evacuated, even showing us a flashback of her father during Kurama's attack and his outdated "women belong in the kitchen and taking care of children" speech.

 

And we don't even gotta say anything about Hinata since too much has been said, and honestly, I feel bad for Team 8/Kurenai; they had potential but NOPE!

[KClaws_2]

The thing that annoys me most about the Sakura hitting Naruto argument is that other Tsundere type characters are not held to that same standard. Kayko hitting Yusuke? Forgot about that. Kagome's sits? It's funny. Kaoru beating Kenshin with a boken? Luv. Some at least will attack other tusnderes, but for some reason Sakura is put up as the poster child of abusive tsunderes when there have been far worse. 

 

Another argument that does them no favors is that if Hinata didn't get with Naruto, she would be lonely and might even kill herself.

 

Uh, that's not the trait of an endearing character. That is someone in need of serious psychotherapy.

 

Another: "Hinata loved him first, so Naruto HAS to return his feelings!"

 

So, wouldn't that mean Sakura had to return Naruto's feelings because he loved her first 

 

Granted, they'd probably refer to that scene in the Last, but still it's a stupid reason.

 

Another one: Hinata is super strong! Imagine how powerful their children could become!

 

Yes, I remember as clear as day when Hinata whooped Neji's a-oh, wait a minute! Neji trounced her!

But still, Hiashi recognized her as a prodi-No, she wasn't! Hiashi was VERY disappointed with her!

Still, it was incredible when she held her own against Sasori...No wait, that was Sakura, never mind!

But how about the time she destroyed the training field...oh wait. Sakura again.

But she showed incredible strenght against Pain...No she didn't, She was one-hit KO'd.

But in the anime, she kept taking hits...Taking hits doesn't mean jack if you don't land a deciding blow.

Oh, but how about the time she figured out the abilities of the White Zet-Sakura again, keep trying.

 

But Boruto and Naruto how scary she gets when she's angry!...Okay...then why not get with Sakura?

 

Really, these "fans" treat these two like their cattle they need to breed. They wanted OP children, they got them, with asinine writing to boot. And how come Hinata is given credit for all these feats when canon did nothing to support them? Why are all these great achievements off-screen? It reminds me when Nostalgia Critic did that Lex Luthor scene from BvS:

 

(Lex Luthor describes all he did in the movie) And the best part of it all, is that I did it ALL OFF-SCREEN, SO NOT EVEN I KNOW HOW I DID ALL THIS IMPOSSIBLE kitten!

Edit: To add even more fuel to the fire...if Sakura always thinks Naruto is a loser in their eyes and pushed Hinata to be with Naruto...then does that mean she thought Hinata was a loser too?

"Losers should only marry losers."
-Proending fandom

Put it to print because proenders think Hinata and Naruto are losers and are pathetic.
 

I recall when all those other mangaka made their own illustrations to "celebrate" the end of Naruto, one had a picture of the Konoha Eleven running up triumphantly...while Naruto and Hinata tripped and fell over into the dirt.

 

Not only does this support your theory, but it's a perfect metaphor for how Naruto was NEVER the star of his own manga. He got left in the dust by everyone else (though I wouldn't say any of them came out good), and settled for someone at his level rather than getting back up.

[Phantom_999]

The thing that annoys me most about the Sakura hitting Naruto argument is that other Tsundere type characters are not held to that same standard. Kayko hitting Yusuke? Forgot about that. Kagome's sits? It's funny. Kaoru beating Kenshin with a boken? Luv. Some at least will attack other tusnderes, but for some reason Sakura is put up as the poster child of abusive tsunderes when there have been far worse. 

 

Another argument that does them no favors is that if Hinata didn't get with Naruto, she would be lonely and might even kill herself.

 

Uh, that's not the trait of an endearing character. That is someone in need of serious psychotherapy.

 

Another: "Hinata loved him first, so Naruto HAS to return his feelings!"

 

So, wouldn't that mean Sakura had to return Naruto's feelings because he loved her first 

 

Granted, they'd probably refer to that scene in the Last, but still it's a stupid reason.

 

Another one: Hinata is super strong! Imagine how powerful their children could become!

 

Yes, I remember as clear as day when Hinata whooped Neji's a-oh, wait a minute! Neji trounced her!

But still, Hiashi recognized her as a prodi-No, she wasn't! Hiashi was VERY disappointed with her!

Still, it was incredible when she held her own against Sasori...No wait, that was Sakura, never mind!

But how about the time she destroyed the training field...oh wait. Sakura again.

But she showed incredible strenght against Pain...No she didn't, She was one-hit KO'd.

But in the anime, she kept taking hits...Taking hits doesn't mean jack if you don't land a deciding blow.

Oh, but how about the time she figured out the abilities of the White Zet-Sakura again, keep trying.

 

But Boruto and Naruto how scary she gets when she's angry!...Okay...then why not get with Sakura?

 

Really, these "fans" treat these two like their cattle they need to breed. They wanted OP children, they got them, with asinine writing to boot. And how come Hinata is given credit for all these feats when canon did nothing to support them? Why are all these great achievements off-screen? It reminds me when Nostalgia Critic did that Lex Luthor scene from BvS:

 

(Lex Luthor describes all he did in the movie) And the best part of it all, is that I did it ALL OFF-SCREEN, SO NOT EVEN I KNOW HOW I DID ALL THIS IMPOSSIBLE kitten!

I recall when all those other mangaka made their own illustrations to "celebrate" the end of Naruto, one had a picture of the Konoha Eleven running up triumphantly...while Naruto and Hinata tripped and fell over into the dirt.

 

Not only does this support your theory, but it's a perfect metaphor for how Naruto was NEVER the star of his own manga. He got left in the dust by everyone else (though I wouldn't say any of them came out good), and settled for someone at his level rather than getting back up.

 

YUP. that is always what boggles my head. And I have beaten this argument to death hundreds of times. Sakura is a demon for daring to smack Naruto upside the head, but other tsunderes that have shown equal or worse traits of the behaviour get a pass. What is with that double standard there?

 

But of course, none of the love interests for those tsunderes had Naruto's social stigma so I feel that must be the prime reason, and the secondary reason is that Sakura did not fall for him instantly like other tsunderes and instead drools when thinking about the popular "bad boy". Maybe what the haters find unforgivable is that Sakura was being a tsundere to a boy that was not her boyfriend nor did she have the hots for. 

 

Then again, Naru from "Love Hina" was crushing on another man before she became a couple with Keitaro yet she still didn't get nearly as much KITTEN for it as Sakura. But of course that probably moves back to the prime reason being that "poor poor Naruto" was was a hated outcast that never had any love from the day he was born except for the select few, and yet he always loved and was considerate to Sakura despite his poor treatment. Whereas other Protagonists don't nearly have it as hard and the tsunderes fall in love with them early so that's why it's cute I suppose.

 

Ergo I am thinking that at least some of these pro-enders want Naruto to have sweet revenge by boinking the shy girl next door that was always into him.

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 January 2019 - 08:25 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

The thing that annoys me most about the Sakura hitting Naruto argument is that other Tsundere type characters are not held to that same standard. Kayko hitting Yusuke? Forgot about that. Kagome's sits? It's funny. Kaoru beating Kenshin with a boken? Luv. Some at least will attack other tusnderes, but for some reason Sakura is put up as the poster child of abusive tsunderes when there have been far worse. 

 

I recall when all those other mangaka made their own illustrations to "celebrate" the end of Naruto, one had a picture of the Konoha Eleven running up triumphantly...while Naruto and Hinata tripped and fell over into the dirt.

 

Not only does this support your theory, but it's a perfect metaphor for how Naruto was NEVER the star of his own manga. He got left in the dust by everyone else (though I wouldn't say any of them came out good), and settled for someone at his level rather than getting back up.

Sakura is hated because she is the first Tsundere some kids saw, reminded them of girls that friend-zone them later on, and Hinata was shown early enough people thought she had a shot.

 

Can you find that image? I don't remember that, and want to see that.

 

It's more Kishimoto got bored with him, and because he needed to justify why Sasuke was still an antagonist was more interesting to him. Also the anime staff cared more about Hinata then anything else.

[James S Cassidy]

 

Sakura is hated because she is the first Tsundere some kids saw, reminded them of girls that friend-zone them later on, and Hinata was shown early enough people thought she had a shot.

 

Can you find that image? I don't remember that, and want to see that.

 

It's more Kishimoto got bored with him, and because he needed to justify why Sasuke was still an antagonist was more interesting to him. Also the anime staff cared more about Hinata then anything else.

 

1st bold: You know what puzzles me about this? If she is the first Tsundere they have seen, then why don't they hate ALL tsunderes after her that are far worse? If they watch other anime, and they see the tsundere be loving and kind, why not go back and relook at Sakura in a different light.

I really wonder how many proenders, who only used to watch Naruto, watched other anime and saw how tsundere are only to go back and reevaluate saying Sakura is not as bad as I thought and actually change their mind saying NS should have been canon. I am curious if this actually did occur.

2nd Bold: How pathetic of a main character are you when no one gives a crap about you? Your own writer cares more about your rival and the anime studio cares more about a girl that is not even there.

--------------------------------------------------

Moving on.
I found this article
https://www.fraghero...85RI-iWqNlA19Pg


This is basically Sasuke's fan in a nutshell.
They ignore all the kitten he does "because he is gorgeous."

This new generation seems to take psychopathic killers, rapist, and down right bad people and romanticizing them because "they look sexy."

This same thing is happening in the new Aladdin movie. Jafar looks sexy and people are like "we want Jafar to win" even though he is a villain trying to take over the world essentially.

Edited by James S Cassidy, 14 January 2019 - 09:11 PM.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

The thing that annoys me most about the Sakura hitting Naruto argument is that other Tsundere type characters are not held to that same standard. Kayko hitting Yusuke? Forgot about that. Kagome's sits? It's funny. Kaoru beating Kenshin with a boken? Luv. Some at least will attack other tusnderes, but for some reason Sakura is put up as the poster child of abusive tsunderes when there have been far worse. 

 

Another argument that does them no favors is that if Hinata didn't get with Naruto, she would be lonely and might even kill herself.

 

Uh, that's not the trait of an endearing character. That is someone in need of serious psychotherapy.

 

Another: "Hinata loved him first, so Naruto HAS to return his feelings!"

 

So, wouldn't that mean Sakura had to return Naruto's feelings because he loved her first 

 

Granted, they'd probably refer to that scene in the Last, but still it's a stupid reason.

 

Another one: Hinata is super strong! Imagine how powerful their children could become!

 

Yes, I remember as clear as day when Hinata whooped Neji's a-oh, wait a minute! Neji trounced her!

But still, Hiashi recognized her as a prodi-No, she wasn't! Hiashi was VERY disappointed with her!

Still, it was incredible when she held her own against Sasori...No wait, that was Sakura, never mind!

But how about the time she destroyed the training field...oh wait. Sakura again.

But she showed incredible strenght against Pain...No she didn't, She was one-hit KO'd.

But in the anime, she kept taking hits...Taking hits doesn't mean jack if you don't land a deciding blow.

Oh, but how about the time she figured out the abilities of the White Zet-Sakura again, keep trying.

 

But Boruto and Naruto how scary she gets when she's angry!...Okay...then why not get with Sakura?

 

Really, these "fans" treat these two like their cattle they need to breed. They wanted OP children, they got them, with asinine writing to boot. And how come Hinata is given credit for all these feats when canon did nothing to support them? Why are all these great achievements off-screen? It reminds me when Nostalgia Critic did that Lex Luthor scene from BvS:

 

(Lex Luthor describes all he did in the movie) And the best part of it all, is that I did it ALL OFF-SCREEN, SO NOT EVEN I KNOW HOW I DID ALL THIS IMPOSSIBLE kitten!

I recall when all those other mangaka made their own illustrations to "celebrate" the end of Naruto, one had a picture of the Konoha Eleven running up triumphantly...while Naruto and Hinata tripped and fell over into the dirt.

 

Not only does this support your theory, but it's a perfect metaphor for how Naruto was NEVER the star of his own manga. He got left in the dust by everyone else (though I wouldn't say any of them came out good), and settled for someone at his level rather than getting back up.

 

 

 

YUP. that is always what boggles my head. And I have beaten this argument to death hundreds of times. Sakura is a demon for daring to smack Naruto upside the head, but other tsunderes that have shown equal or worse traits of the behaviour get a pass. What is with that double standard there?

 

But of course, none of the love interests for those tsunderes had Naruto's social stigma so I feel that must be the prime reason, and the secondary reason is that Sakura did not fall for him instantly like other tsunderes and instead drools when thinking about the popular "bad boy". Maybe what the haters find unforgivable is that Sakura was being a tsundere to a boy that was not her boyfriend nor did she have the hots for. 

 

Then again, Naru from "Love Hina" was crushing on another man before she became a couple with Keitaro yet she still didn't get nearly as much KITTEN for it as Sakura. But of course again that is probably moving back to the prime reason being that "poor poor Naruto" was was a hated outcast that never had any love from the day he was born except for the select few, and yet he always loved and was considerate to Sakura despite his poor treatment. where as other Protagonists don't nearly have it as hard and the tsunderes fall in love with them early so that's why it's cute I suppose. Ergo I am thinking that at least some of these pro-enders want Naruto to have sweet revenge by boinking the shy girl next door that was always into him.

As I keep mentioning - Louise from Zero no Tsukaima. From what I've seen, a lot of people seem to love her more often than not, but she LITERALLY spent the first few episodes, if not the entire first series, actually abusing  Saito and treating him LIKE A DOG/PET aside from a slave - making him eat on the floor, making him sleep outside, whipping him, beating him, etc. if he questioned her or did anything she didn't like, etc. In fact, IIRC, people hated SAITO for being the one to try to get away initially.

 

1st bold: You know what puzzles me about this? If she is the first Tsundere they have seen, then why don't they hate ALL tsunderes after her that are far worse? If they watch other anime, and they see the tsundere be loving and kind, why not go back and relook at Sakura in a different light.

I really wonder how many proenders, who only used to watch Naruto, watched other anime and saw how tsundere are only to go back and reevaluate saying Sakura is not as bad as I thought and actually change their mind saying NS should have been canon. I am curious if this actually did occur.

2nd Bold: How pathetic of a main character are you when no one gives a crap about you? Your own writer cares more about your rival and the anime studio cares more about a girl that is not even there.

--------------------------------------------------

Moving on.
I found this article
https://www.fraghero...85RI-iWqNlA19Pg


This is basically Sasuke's fan in a nutshell.
They ignore all the kitten he does "because he is gorgeous."

This new generation seems to take psychopathic killers, rapist, and down right bag people and romanticizing them because "they look sexy."

This same thing is happening in the new Aladdin movie. Jafar looks sexy and people are like "we want Jafar to win" even though he is a villain trying to take over the world essentially.

Like I said, if Hinatatas were to be an ugly duckling with all her flaws, or if she were to end up horribly scarred somehow, rather than looking like the pretty, big-bewbed goddess her fanatics see her as, virtually everyone except general sympathizers (not necessarily fans of her character, just feeling sorry for her situation and all) would drop her like a rotten apple.

Even in real life, if a defendant in a murder case simply looks physically attractive, you'll have jurors wanting to find him "Not Guilty" despite all the evidence pinning him otherwise because he simply doesn't LOOK like he could possibly be a murderer. A lot of people are stupid like that in that they think a person should always "look the part" - a murderer should look like Jason Voorhees without the mask, Freddy Krueger with tons of burn scars, or physically ugly in some way to make them social outcasts, forgetting that some of the worst serial killers in history were actually physically attractive and charming and such like Ted Bundy.

[James S Cassidy]

 

 

As I keep mentioning - Louise from Zero no Tsukaima. From what I've seen, a lot of people seem to love her more often than not, but she LITERALLY spent the first few episodes, if not the entire first series, actually abusing  Saito and treating him LIKE A DOG/PET aside from a slave - making him eat on the floor, making him sleep outside, whipping him, beating him, etc. if he questioned her or did anything she didn't like, etc. In fact, IIRC, people hated SAITO for being the one to try to get away initially.

 

Like I said, if Hinatatas were to be an ugly duckling with all her flaws, or if she were to end up horribly scarred somehow, rather than looking like the pretty, big-bewbed goddess her fanatics see her as, virtually everyone except general sympathizers (not necessarily fans of her character, just feeling sorry for her situation and all) would drop her like a rotten apple.

Even in real life, if a defendant in a murder case simply looks physically attractive, you'll have jurors wanting to find him "Not Guilty" despite all the evidence pinning him otherwise because he simply doesn't LOOK like he could possibly be a murderer. A lot of people are stupid like that in that they think a person should always "look the part" - a murderer should look like Jason Voorhees without the mask, Freddy Krueger with tons of burn scars, or physically ugly in some way to make them social outcasts, forgetting that some of the worst serial killers in history were actually physically attractive and charming and such like Ted Bundy.

I don't know. Hinata is such an enigma to me. In all intents and purposes, Hinata should not be as popular as she is. I say it a thousands times, how come no other character like Hinata is as popular? Now, someone might say that the anime lifted her popularity to new heights due to the fillers, but for the longest of time I remember many avid manga and anime fans will go their graves saying "Take the anime with a grain of salt. Go with the manga." Naruto comes along and now people are like "Anime is best. Ignore the manga." Since when did things reverse? For the longest time, we knew the book was always better than the movie, but now who care if the book was different?

It seems like Naruto just caused this shift in anime where people cared more about anime than the manga detail. Even Dragonball Super is suffering for it. Now we don't know what is canon and what is filler as they are starting to be so different.

Bold: That's what made them such good killers.

[Bail o' Lies]

James...Somewhat. From what I have seen older anime fans the grown up with Dragonball, or came into watching anime later are fine if a bit annoyed with Tsundere; they also tend to hate moe. While the age group that generally would have watched Naruto first are obsessed with how perfect moe girls are, and how they are the best girls. It depends on the person often as well let use people who do anime reviews on youtube as an example. I tend to find the reviewers that voice sounds like their balls have never dropped then to be obsessed with moe. Anyone else it depends on the person, and it depends on the anime.

 

I don't know. Hinata is such an enigma to me. In all intents and purposes, Hinata should not be as popular as she is. I say it a thousands times, how come no other character like Hinata is as popular? Now, someone might say that the anime lifted her popularity to new heights due to the fillers, but for the longest of time I remember many avid manga and anime fans will go their graves saying "Take the anime with a grain of salt. Go with the manga." Naruto comes along and now people are like "Anime is best. Ignore the manga." Since when did things reverse? For the longest time, we knew the book was always better than the movie, but now who care if the book was different?

It seems like Naruto just caused this shift in anime where people cared more about anime than the manga detail. Even Dragonball Super is suffering for it. Now we don't know what is canon and what is filler as they are starting to be so different.

Bold: That's what made them such good killers.

It's because for some reason Hinata triggers their sympathy or lust do to how pathetic she is that people seem to change their stance to what ever work for her benefit.

 

On the anime more important take it as canon over the manga because Hinata has development in it. Well what I said above, also you could blame it on Millennials aversion to reading in general. Most seem to never read anything outside Harry Potter.

 

From what I recall from dragonball super either Toriyama made the anime canon or they are both canon. For Boruto they did, "they are both canon," but because the manga is the head writers (or the closest thing they got) story they have to wait until it actually does something. Till then canon stories that fill like filler.

[James S Cassidy]

James...Somewhat. From what I have seen older anime fans the grown up with Dragonball, or came into watching anime later are fine if a bit annoyed with Tsundere; they also tend to hate moe. While the age group that generally would have watched Naruto first are obsessed with how perfect moe girls are, and how they are the best girls. It depends on the person often as well let use people who do anime reviews on youtube as an example. I tend to find the reviewers that voice sounds like their balls have never dropped then to be obsessed with moe. Anyone else it depends on the person, and it depends on the anime.

So basically, what you are telling me is that Naruto has corrupted the anime industry in one of the most dramatic way. *sigh* Why is it that things that influence the audience as a whole the most always pushes something negative or something corrupting, but when something actually pushes a good moral standing...it is just pushed to the side. Is this proof that we as a human species are more susceptible to corruption than salvation albeit on a minor scale?

I just feel really sorry for some of these kids when realize that Naruto is a rare case of the moe character getting the MC while also not being the heroine. You know how many stories there are where the tsundere wins the love interest?

Maybe that's why I can't take these "anime fans" seriously. They don't branch out from cheap shonen stories. Don't they see how stupid they are being? How can they be so blind, so narrow-minded, so insanely biased and still think they are smart? It's like dealing with flat earthers or even just someone who refuses to admit that grass is green.

What is up with both the newer generation and the baby boomers who absolutely refuse to admit they are wrong when they are proven wrong. I had a guy argue that Saitama can't be Goku cause ONE said Saitama can't beat him. Just doing a little research, you find out it was Yusuke Murata who, when asked, said "I don't know" and didn't want to say if he could or not. This guy said "well Murata and ONE are in league with each other and Murata is just as good as asking ONE himself." Murata said he doesn't know, and this dude takes this as "Saitama CAN'T beat Goku."

Meanwhile, I bring up how Toshio, several VAs, and the writers of Super admit that Goku is not a universe buster (unless he was promoted by Zeno)....and he is like "Well, what do they know. They are not Toriyama."

I just lose my mind just how corrupted they are over their own bias.

 

It's because for some reason Hinata triggers their sympathy or lust do to how pathetic she is that people seem to change their stance to what ever work for her benefit.

 

On the anime more important take it as canon over the manga because Hinata has development in it. Well what I said above, also you could blame it on Millennials aversion to reading in general. Most seem to never read anything outside Harry Potter.

 

From what I recall from dragonball super either Toriyama made the anime canon or they are both canon. For Boruto they did, "they are both canon," but because the manga is the head writers (or the closest thing they got) story they have to wait until it actually does something. Till then canon stories that fill like filler.

 

What happens when the anime and manga try to tell the same story, but with differences? Look at the Resurrection of F movie.

People want to say Goku is a universe buster due to Battle of Gods, but the manga shows him unable to do anything universe busting qualities like how he can only lift 1000 tons. Some say this is Toriyama not understanding simple physics, but it drives me nuts when they play selective reasoning with what they want vs what is fact.

Naruto can apparently dodge things going lightspeed, but gets impaled by a sword moving slower than that.

It just is so aggravating because Naruto started this selective reasoning with spoiled brat "anime fans" where it is only canon if it follow their agenda. What the hell? Why? Why can't these people accept that they are wrong? What is so bad about being wrong? They make every excuse about not being wrong to the point that even the authors own words are cast aside if it doesn't follow even if it is in the exact same sentence.

Kishimoto: "Truth is, SS and NH was the plan to put together...."
Proenders: "See? Told you."
Kishimoto: "....recently, but it wasn't my plan. I didn't really care and couldn't care less. To me, NH is a pity screw and SS is a drug addiction."
Proender: "What a kidder that Kishimoto is. He is a good writer and tells jokes."

Just....is their pairing really that important? Worse still when they go bat-kitten insane over NH and SS, but then tell me or even us that WE need to calm down and it is "just a story" all the whole spent the past 8 years saying if NH and SS doesn't get together they were going to kill themselves.

I saw a discussion about how Neji was right and that hardwork means garbage in the story. These people made every excuse to prove this wasn't the case from "this isn't exactly what he meant" to "Neji made a choice. It was all about the fact he didn't make a choice before." These excuses some how diminish the fact that Neji was right.

you can find the discussion in this video



 

Edited by James S Cassidy, 14 January 2019 - 11:05 PM.

[Bail o' Lies]

The anime industry? No. Think more along the lines of politics. Please no one go beyond this an actually get political; If *my* party does X it fine but if the *other party* does it is bad. 

 

Or Zamasu 

 

 

If Hinata does it it is fine, if Sakura does it then it is a sin.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 14 January 2019 - 11:48 PM.

[tricksie]

 

Sakura is hated because she is the first Tsundere some kids saw, reminded them of girls that friend-zone them later on, and Hinata was shown early enough people thought she had a shot.

 

Can you find that image? I don't remember that, and want to see that.

 

It's more Kishimoto got bored with him, and because he needed to justify why Sasuke was still an antagonist was more interesting to him. Also the anime staff cared more about Hinata then anything else.

 

I hate the 'hating Sakura because she's mean' crap. I think it's just a weak excuse for why someone didn't like her in the first chapters. Because even by the end of the first arc she'd evolved out of that, and was shown as recognizing Naruto's character. That Tsundere garbage, just shows me that those people don't like Sakura. And there's never any amount of niceness that she could show to Naruto that would change that. 

 

One of my favorite scenes with Sakura was when she told Hinata not to focus so much on Naruto, but instead to pull her on weight. Naruto could take care of himself. Right there should have been the final conclusion of the mass hatred of Sakura's childhood Tsundere nonsense. Sakura saw Naruto completely. And she was telling the passive/sympathetic character to stop seeing him as something he wasn't. It's like my favorite interaction between them, and it shows on what a different level Sakura is on. Too bad we don't see anything like that again....

 

As for Sasuke, I think Kishimoto really forgot who the hero was. I think it was more interesting to write Sasuke's story than Naruto. And he just forgot about Naruto. Or rather, he decided he could no longer challenge the "hero" character, and instead focused on turning someone who was very much the villain into the "dark hero" and rewriting the story to be about his climb back to the good side. Sasuke drives the plot. Naruto reacts to it. After the Pain arc, the whole story switches to revolve around Sasuke and it never switches back. 

 

So yeah, I really think somewhere along the line Kishimoto fell out of love with Naruto and in love Sasuke. He spent more time writing for Sasuke, giving him cool illustrations, a deeper backstory and more far-reaching plot experiences, and in the end, distorted the other main character (Sakura) to be the long-suffering love as a reward and received no punishment for his misdeeds. The story revolved around Sasuke so much that he even narrated the ending. 

 

The anime staff may have cared about Hinata, but Kishimoto was in love with writing for Sasuke.

[jak123]

 

Sakura is hated because she is the first Tsundere some kids saw, reminded them of girls that friend-zone them later on, and Hinata was shown early enough people thought she had a shot.

 

Can you find that image? I don't remember that, and want to see that.

 

It's more Kishimoto got bored with him, and because he needed to justify why Sasuke was still an antagonist was more interesting to him. Also the anime staff cared more about Hinata then anything else.

 

I feel bad for people if Naruto was their first anime.

Edited by jak123, 16 January 2019 - 12:01 AM.

[Phantom_999]

I hate the 'hating Sakura because she's mean' crap. I think it's just a weak excuse for why someone didn't like her in the first chapters. Because even by the end of the first arc she'd evolved out of that, and was shown as recognizing Naruto's character. That Tsundere garbage, just shows me that those people don't like Sakura. And there's never any amount of niceness that she could show to Naruto that would change that. 

 

One of my favorite scenes with Sakura was when she told Hinata not to focus so much on Naruto, but instead to pull her on weight. Naruto could take care of himself. Right there should have been the final conclusion of the mass hatred of Sakura's childhood Tsundere nonsense. Sakura saw Naruto completely. And she was telling the passive/sympathetic character to stop seeing him as something he wasn't. It's like my favorite interaction between them, and it shows on what a different level Sakura is on. Too bad we don't see anything like that again....

 

As for Sasuke, I think Kishimoto really forgot who the hero was. I think it was more interesting to write Sasuke's story than Naruto. And he just forgot about Naruto. Or rather, he decided he could no longer challenge the "hero" character, and instead focused on turning someone who was very much the villain into the "dark hero" and rewriting the story to be about his climb back to the good side. Sasuke drives the plot. Naruto reacts to it. After the Pain arc, the whole story switches to revolve around Sasuke and it never switches back. 

 

So yeah, I really think somewhere along the line Kishimoto fell out of love with Naruto and in love Sasuke. He spent more time writing for Sasuke, giving him cool illustrations, a deeper backstory and more far-reaching plot experiences, and in the end, distorted the other main character (Sakura) to be the long-suffering love as a reward and received no punishment for his misdeeds. The story revolved around Sasuke so much that he even narrated the ending. 

 

The anime staff may have cared about Hinata, but Kishimoto was in love with writing for Sasuke.

 

 

Yes of course it is a rubbish reason to be hating Sakura, but that not even the most infuriating part. What's worse is like you said Tricksie, that haters and bashers of Sakura REFUSE to acknowledge that she has changed and matured from that bratty and shallow fan girl that everyone is judging her for to a more caring and selfless person that would fight for her friends and even step in to protect strangers that she does not know. No, they will always consider her the useless, crying, squealing twelve year old that she was at the start of the series, but when Hinata fights for Naruto because of even the most selfish and idiotic decisions they put her on a pedestal and say "OMG "She is such a hard worker! She always tries her best! She must really love her man candy to fight only when he's in danger and when he openly encourages her!!!!!!" In fact James already pointed this out. Every other character's development and personal progression is acknowledged in the series........ except for Sakura's. DOUBLE STANDARDS, KITTENS!!!!!

 

And again there is even an effing double standard of Sakura "being a tsundere". Sakura is evil incarnate and is both ugly inside AND OUT for daring to be a biatch that decks Naruto to the ground for any source of irritation, but other tsunderes are perfectly acceptable and well loved for it. Naru Narusegawa from from Love Hina? Gets a pass. Louise from The Familiar of Zero? Gets a pass. Asuka from Evangelion? Gets a pass. Any tsundere written by Rumiko Takahashi? Gets a pass. In fact this Hypocrisy is even within Naruto itself. The filler episode of "Boruto" where Hinata gets angry and throws Boruto and his father out of the house for disturbing the daughter while she is sick? Remaining fans EAT UP that $#it. Said Daughter of Nardo Scumzamaki knocks him out before his Hokage appointment ceremony? "What a little badass she is!!!!" they will cry.

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again. "WHY NOT HYPOCRITES, WHY NOT!!!!!!??????"    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by Phantom_999, 16 May 2019 - 09:34 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

https://happyturtles...ood-jamestheguy

 

...People like this piss me off because they assume what I was saying was out of spite, but I am saying it because it is just a damn shame what Hinata had become, and yet they seem to constantly USE STUPID FILLER THAT HAS NO PLACE SO I GOT NO RAISINS TO WANT TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO ARGUE MY POINT WHEN SOMEONE IS GONNA BE AN ASS LIKE THIS!!!

 

Sometimes, I just want to take a tire iron to all of them, but it'd make me no better than them, when they just don't listen to reason, and just wanna assume I'm wrong, they're right. Part of it to me is that they don't SEE how they're wrong, and the other part is I hate to be proven wrong because it just makes me feel stupid (blame it on me being autistic even if I'm high functioning).

Edited by Bryon_Konoha_Ninja, 16 January 2019 - 04:45 AM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I hate the 'hating Sakura because she's mean' crap. I think it's just a weak excuse for why someone didn't like her in the first chapters. Because even by the end of the first arc she'd evolved out of that, and was shown as recognizing Naruto's character. That Tsundere garbage, just shows me that those people don't like Sakura. And there's never any amount of niceness that she could show to Naruto that would change that. 

 

One of my favorite scenes with Sakura was when she told Hinata not to focus so much on Naruto, but instead to pull her on weight. Naruto could take care of himself. Right there should have been the final conclusion of the mass hatred of Sakura's childhood Tsundere nonsense. Sakura saw Naruto completely. And she was telling the passive/sympathetic character to stop seeing him as something he wasn't. It's like my favorite interaction between them, and it shows on what a different level Sakura is on. Too bad we don't see anything like that again....

 

As for Sasuke, I think Kishimoto really forgot who the hero was. I think it was more interesting to write Sasuke's story than Naruto. And he just forgot about Naruto. Or rather, he decided he could no longer challenge the "hero" character, and instead focused on turning someone who was very much the villain into the "dark hero" and rewriting the story to be about his climb back to the good side. Sasuke drives the plot. Naruto reacts to it. After the Pain arc, the whole story switches to revolve around Sasuke and it never switches back. 

 

So yeah, I really think somewhere along the line Kishimoto fell out of love with Naruto and in love Sasuke. He spent more time writing for Sasuke, giving him cool illustrations, a deeper backstory and more far-reaching plot experiences, and in the end, distorted the other main character (Sakura) to be the long-suffering love as a reward and received no punishment for his misdeeds. The story revolved around Sasuke so much that he even narrated the ending. 

 

The anime staff may have cared about Hinata, but Kishimoto was in love with writing for Sasuke.

 

Tricksie, a lot of what you said is why I want to make things like that a fix easily in my Naruto fanfiction, because it's to show not just an alternate universe, BUT to try to also fix the many mistakes and problems the canon has had before AND after the ending. Like the tsundere stuff for Sakura is still gonna be there, but I am not gonna lay it on too thick like Studio Pierrot did, and trying to make it make sense with how she is evolving in the story, especially seeing Naruto in action.

 

With Sasuke, I show his redemption arc being a lot like Riku in Kingdom Hearts in that he's spent so much time in darkness after Naruto beat him in the Final Valley and stopped him from getting to Orochimaru, and that bothers Sasuke so much that the "loser" because of his inability to see how strong Naruto really was due to his own cowardice and fear to see anyone else but himself as strong, had stopped him from being able to get what he THINKS he wants. Not to mention he is swayed to work for the Foundation, doing Danzo's assasination dirty work all to make his heart empty and cruel enough to kill not just Naruto but Itachi. Though he would be aware of the fact he's being played, but doesn't give a damn, since he's basically using Danzo as well.

 

But what he goes through as it goes on is that Sasuke begins to see that it isn't about being the strongest, because there's always going to be someone stronger than you out there, but about his wondering if revenge would be worth it, since he'd still be miserable and alone, with nothing to share for it, but with someone who knows how that feeling of loneliness can just consume you but who chose to do something instead of being a mopey emo brat who thought being strong and vicious was the only way to go.

 

I do apologize for double posting, I just was thinking about what you were saying and it helped me to calm down from being mad about NH fans trying to piss me off by reblogging my stuff on Tumblr and twisting it to their own agenda by thinking I'm wrong. And it helped a lot to get some of my thoughts out there :)

[Nostradamus]

https://happyturtles...ood-jamestheguy

 

...People like this piss me off because they assume what I was saying was out of spite, but I am saying it because it is just a damn shame what Hinata had become, and yet they seem to constantly USE STUPID FILLER THAT HAS NO PLACE SO I GOT NO RAISINS TO WANT TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO ARGUE MY POINT WHEN SOMEONE IS GONNA BE AN ASS LIKE THIS!!!

 

Sometimes, I just want to take a tire iron to all of them, but it'd make me no better than them, when they just don't listen to reason, and just wanna assume I'm wrong, they're right. Part of it to me is that they don't SEE how they're wrong, and the other part is I hate to be proven wrong because it just makes me feel stupid (blame it on me being autistic even if I'm high functioning).

I don't have a tumblr account, but seeing comments like that make me into wanting to create one just to reply to that stupidity.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

I don't have a tumblr account, but seeing comments like that make me into wanting to create one just to reply to that stupidity.

 

Trust me, I would want to give a reply, but I'm like "Screw that noise!"

[Bail o' Lies]

I just want to point out that the images show Hanabi worshiping her sister but in the third image Hinata actually doesn't reflect that back instead having a very cold/neutral look, and as for the last image from what I understand Toneri looked into her mind after that and saw what was solely on Hinata's mind was thoughts of Naruto.