62 replies to this topic

[kirabook]

Hello everyone. Wasn't sure whether to stick this into General or Icha Icha NS....

I've been thinking deeply about something I realized yesterday that I don't think many readers, including myself, realize very often or at all. Unless a time skip is made obvious, the time between chapters in the Naruto world does not exist. I'm quoting myself below so that I don't have to repeat most of it again.

I think some people are forgetting that while we get 1 chapter a week, 1 chapter can equal all of 5 minutes in the Naruverse.

Last I remember, not even a day or two had passed since the war began in their universe, is it really that odd that Naruto wasn't fantasizing over Sakura for a day or two?

Saying something is less relevant because nothing has happened in the last x amount of chapters is the wrong way to go about things and only indicates that you are not reading the manga as a whole, but rather looking at each chapter as if they stand alone and nothing in-between the last important moment and the present matters. When you're looking for relevance in a characters actions, you must think about it in THEIR terms, not real world terms.

In THEIR terms, we haven't seen Naruto and Hinata have a true conversation for 4-5 years (on panel). In their terms, Naruto has been back in the village for a little over a year (which is about 5 years to us). In their terms, Neji died all of 2-3 minutes ago (even though it may feel like weeks for us)

"Naruto hasn't thought about Sakura in 100 chapters!" is misleading. Naruto hasn't thought about Sakura since the Summit arc... well actually he thought about her along with others after he met his mother while training with Bee, which was what, the same day he found out that the war was happening, the same day he confronted Iruka and ran off anyway, the same day he split up and saved his friends (including Sakura and Hinata) from danger, the same day he met all the Jinchurikki and made friends with Kurama, the same day Neji died and he held Hinata's hand, and probably the same day he'll defeat Obito at the very least.

In the future, please consider how time flows in their world.

Think about this war, this war is only 2 days long or so so far. To US, the war has been on for months I think? Or has a year passed already? (Think about it, that entire Sasuke/Kabuto arc lasted at most an hour or less) Maybe we're all complaining too early about some characters not getting enough screen time. Kishi has already fit in so much into 2 Naruto days, it might take longer to find a fitting place for everyone to get their well deserved spotlight.

That said, I think Kishi has screwed himself over. He's putting too little into each chapter that it's unrealistically stretching everything out. The longer he takes to do something, the more the readers perception of time is skewered. I realize this is a problem he has always had. He extends arcs so long, readers loose interest or they lose site of how long something has really taken within the Naruto world.

And of course, another problem comes when the pairing debates are brought up. Many times, be it our side or other sides, the argument is "Well, -insert name- and -insert name- haven't interacted in -x amount of chapters-. That must mean whatever they have if insignificant."

Normally, this argument is pretty bad and falls flat. Even when used against certain characters (which even I have done), it is not the best argument. For example, I think I have complained that we haven't seen Sakura do anything amazing in x amount of chapters, but now I realize, Sakura did something amazing not even a day ago in their world by taking down a Zetsu and giving the alliance some info on them. Using chapters as a time reference is bad, chapters =/= time passed.

Another thing you might see is "Naruto hasn't even though about Sakura for x amount of chapters". Again, chapters =/= time passed. If we assume Sakura's confession happened 7 days before the current time of the most recent chapter, than Naruto has not spoken to/seen/had time to think about Sakura about their problems at all. (He did think about her -and others- when his mother told him to make good friends I believe) A week in their time is nothing compared to the years passed where we have not seen Naruto ever having a normal conversation with Hinata. Who doubts that after this war is over that things will return to normal somewhat and we will see Sakura and Naruto interacting on a normal basis? (seemingly everyday or a few times a week in their world)

As another member brought up, if we look at time in their world, Sakura was nearly killed by Sasuke only a week ago AT THE MOST. Should we really find it too strange that Sasuke is the first thing she thinks about when she reflects whether the guy she likes is a 'good guy'? In actuality, this moment should drive home the fact that Sasuke isn't a good guy, Sakura has accepted this, and that she does not view any love she has for him as a good thing at all.

My point is, whether you're in a debate with someone over a characters relevance (like the Sakura not doing anything for x amount of chapters) or if you're in a debate over how much interaction a pairing has had (like the Naruto not thinking about Sakura for x amount of chapters), don't be perplexed. The amount of chapters does not equal how much time has flowed in their world. When you decide to reference time, remember to actually reference time and not the amount of chapters that has passed between point A and point B.

Kishi makes it difficult of a normal reader who does not look too deep into the story to realize the time passed in each chapter is incredibly short. I feel an arc should never be 6 months+ long, you begin to lose time perception at that point.

Question for you:

There are many other factors that tie into pairing of choice when it comes to the Naruto fandom, but does anyone agree time perception has a big role in that?

Have you ever been caught in the trap of time vs chapters? (Don't be afraid to admit it. )

Did I post this in the right section?

Have your views on any recent developments changed based on this essay of mine?

I had more questions, but I forgot them.

[Chatte]

I always use in debates the timeline thing. Why? Because it's very important. And not only in debates about pairings, but overall. When people cry about this or that not happening.
Well, in Narutoverse, 50 chapters can be fairly equal to a day.

[Slextrem]

I believe Naruto is meant to be read by the volume rather than by the chapter. Of course, we have no choice in the matter, as we're completely caught up with Kishimoto's releases, but fans will get a better perspective of the story if they read each volume as a whole. That's why it's good to go back and re-read the series from time to time. You'll pick up on things that you may have overlooked the first time. I believe this will also give a better perspective of the passing of time in the series.

That being said, I believe more time has passed during this war than just two days. There is a lot to think about when trying to come up with a timeline. I made a post in regard to the amount of time that has passed between Sasuke attacking Sakura and chapter 540 in the debate thread. I'll re-post it here:

How long does it take to travel from the Land of Iron to Konoha? How much time passes between their return and Tsunade waking up from her coma? How much time passes between then and Naruto being sent on his "mission" to the island? How long does it take him to reach the island? How much time does he spend on the island? When does the war start? How much time does Sakura spend with Kakashi's unit? When does she leave for the medical tent? How much time is she working in the medical tent? When does Naruto leave the island with Bee? How long does it take him to reach the battlefield? When, during that time, does Sakura get confronted by the Lover Nin?

These are all questions that need to be considered when coming up with a timeline between Sasuke attacking Sakura and chapter 540. It's hard to come up with a solid timeline because there are a lot of things that happen off-panel and we aren't given a good perspective of how much time has actually passed. I believe it's been more than five days since the Summit Arc took place, as it would take at least a day to travel back to Konoha, another day before Tsunade wakes up, x amount of time for her to send Naruto to the island, x amount of time for Naruto to arrive at the island, who knows how long for the war to even start...

My guess is it's been, at the very least, a few weeks. That doesn't mean Sasuke isn't still fresh on her mind though. I imagine it would be very difficult to forget about your first love trying to kill you multiple times in the same day.

Some of these questions also need to be taken into consideration when coming up with a timeline for the war itself. Which of the battles take place at the same time in the Narutoverse, (for example, does Kakashi's battle with Zabuza happen at the same time as Gaara's battle with his father in the Narutoverse? Or do they occur at different times during the same day? Do they even occur on the same day?) Is there time in between certain battles that we've seen? How much time does it take for a battle to finish? Has any time passed off panel?

One would have to go back, re-read the war arc, and carefully take note of each event that happens as well as the length of time it takes to happen in order to come up with a realistic timeline. In my opinion, from the time Naruto returned from the Summit Arc to the time that we're at in the manga presently, it's been a few weeks. I could be wrong though. LOL. It's a lot to think about.

I do agree that it's important to take this into consideration about the pairings though. While for us it has literally been years since Hinata's confession and Sakura's confession, it really hasn't been that long in the Narutoverse. A few weeks at most. We should keep that in mind when debating.

Edited by Slextrem, 13 January 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[Chatte]

Basically I think that the fights were at the same time, however, on different batter fields, that's why the whole division and stuff.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I do agree about the time being a factor to the story. I would reread soon enough, just waiting for this arc to end. If only it has a timeline like in Halo. In the novels, each chapters has a time/setting to let you know when does that event takes place, and later, it will become crucial to other characters that are collided within the story. I guess that's why they released an encyclopedia.

[kirabook]

I believe most of the battles we got glimpses of or were hinted at occurred at the same time. That is probably why some fights we wanted to see (Like with Chiyo) were not seen.

We know the little Sasuke/Kabuto arc was happening at the same time because the corpses started disappearing on the battle field as they defeated Kabuto. We also know it was happening the same time as the Kage fight because Madara stopped himself from dissipating.

I'll have to go back and look, but wasn't it mentioned that most of the ninja died the first day? I assume they make such an estimate on the second day. That is what mostly makes me believe there's only been at most 2-3 days of actually fighting. Soon after the summit arc Naruto leaves to go with Bee right? They had to get rid of him pretty early if they wanted to start mobilization, which took about a week I assume, but I don't think the actual fighting has lasted that long at all.

[Chatte]

I believe most of the battles we got glimpses of or were hinted at occurred at the same time. That is probably why some fights we wanted to see (Like with Chiyo) were not seen.

We know the little Sasuke/Kabuto arc was happening at the same time because the corpses started disappearing on the battle field as they defeated Kabuto. We also know it was happening the same time as the Kage fight because Madara stopped himself from dissipating.

I'll have to go back and look, but wasn't it mentioned that most of the ninja died the first day? I assume they make such an estimate on the second day. That is what mostly makes me believe there's only been at most 2-3 days of actually fighting. Soon after the summit arc Naruto leaves to go with Bee right? They had to get rid of him pretty early if they wanted to start mobilization, which took about a week I assume, but I don't think the actual fighting has lasted that long at all.

Ah, you took the words out of my mouth.

[sardns]

Yeah, this can definitely be a detriment to manga when fans are reading one chapter per week. The worst case I've experienced with this is the Hueco Mundo/Soul Society vs. Arrancar arc which lasted for (I think) 3-4 days at most in the actual story but went on for, like, five years.

[sushi.]

This is a very good point, and it also means that last time Naruto showed love for Sakura was under a week ago. And now people think he's falling for Hinata. I'm sorry, I honestly am worried about the series' current quality, but pairings are not one of them.

[Chatte]

Oh, let's analyze a bit... So after Team 7 reunion, at the same time, Raikage found Hatchibi and returned home, in Kumo.
On the same day, Naruto, Sakura, Kakashi and the rest, were on the way off to Konoha.
At the same time, Kabuto lurking into the darkness, getting his hands on some bodies. At this same time, the Daymios (or however the name) agreed to have the alliance.
While aaaaaall this happened, Mizukage, Kazekage and the others, were already back home.
At the same time, Root comes to let Sai know that Danzo has died, he's free of the curse.
They all get back to Konoha, where Tsunade has weakened up, they have that discussion about taking on Sasuke, all of them.
Naruto goes short after to Ichiraku, Sakura comes running soon after she's heard that Tsunade is ok, to let him know.
Sasuke gets his eyes from Itachi. The toads talk about the premonition.
An, in between, Karin is in Konoha's prison.
Short after Tsunade woke up, she eats like a desperate, lol, she is informed about the on-going declaration of war and calls everyone immediately for a meeting.
The orders to start gathering weaponry and such is given, in the mean time, Naruto goes to Myobokuzan and it's told about the premonition.
In the mean time we have Anko's patrol searching for Kabuto, as the toads tell Naruto about how to get the Kyuubi's chakra as well.
It's also shown, that in Kumo, preparations for the war have started.
This ends a day, barely. And I haven't numbered the previous actions.
BUT!
Actually, the day started in 451.
Early in the morning:
Inari and Tazuna come and talk about Team 7.
Team Samui come with a letter for the Hokage. They meet Danzo in the end because Tsunade is in a coma. Danzo talks to them, as well after, with Sai aout Naruto.
Immediately after, Team 7 are announced that Danzo has taken the lead as a Hokage and ask Sai about him, they find out he has declared Sasuke a criminal and start getting angry, when Karui and the other guy appears and they have that fight over Sasuke where Sakura gets emotional again.
In the mean time, we have Sasuke shown leading towards Konoha, but Tobi says there's no Konoha to destroy. All this happens while the other thing happen in Konoha.
Back in Suna, Sand siblings are departing. Mizukage as well. Tsuchikage also, as well as Kumogakure and Konohagakure, via Danzo, to that meeting to talk about the war.
All this, once again, while in Konoha the whole things were happening.
Naruto sends Sakura away and says he'll deal with Karui and Omoi (remembered the name). He gets beaten to a pulp and then Sai comes in. Afterwards, he is taken in a tent and learns why Naruto does all that and hides from Sakura and takes the decision to go and talk to Sakura, while Naruto, after hearing about Raikage's decision, decides together with Kakashi and Yamato to go and look for Raikage.
While he leaves with Kakashi/Yamato to find Raikage, Sai goes to Sakura.
Konoha 11 take the decision to take care of Sasuke their own.
Sai tells Sakura about Naruto's struggle. She starts crying, in the same time, Shikamaru comes in. Funny thing: while Ino cries for Sasuke, Sakura cries for Naruto. Oh, you Kishi!
Anyway, she decides to take care of those things herself.
In the mean time, we have Naruto talking to Raikage about Sasuke and revenge. Raikage doesn't listen and goes forward to the meeting.
Naruto goes with Yamato and Kakashi to that inn.
Meantime, Sakura already forms the team and goes after Naruto. The confession takes place.
All this, while, in parallel, Hachibi vs Kisame and the Kages argument, later, Sasuke vs the five Kages.
When Sakura's confession is over and Naruto rejects it, she decides to go kill Sasuke on her own.
While Sasuke is done with the Kages, he goes after Danzo. Until Sakura finds Sasuke's coordinates, he kills Danzo.
In between, Naruto finds out about Sakura's ulterior reason.
Sakura finds Sasuke, tries to kill him and she can't. Then all the others follow.
And afterwards, we have Team 7 reunion.

All this, with what I said in the beginning, meaning from Tazuna and Inari, up to Tsunade's recovery and preparations for war/Naruto's talk with the frogs/Kumo's preparations for war, since it's going to be the HQ there, form barely a day!

So, if you think at it, it took Kishimoto from 451 up to 491 to describe the action of an entire day! And all war preparations, actually took place 3 days. Because after 3 days, they are shown in the HQ, meeting.
http://narutobase.ne...ga/Naruto/491/5

So, basically, starting from 491, we can do the counting of a new day.
I'll try to do it, but later on.
But, in my guess, this is the second day. Actually, we're at the middle of the second day, at night, going to the third. Because if it took him 40 chapters to describe the action from a day, it is only logical that it took him 100+ chapter to explain the action of two days, on going on the third.

So, yes, timeline IS important!

Edited by Chatte, 13 January 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[xxRomanceGirlxx]

Holy crap. O.O Kishi fits too much stuff in one day! No wonder so many people have the timeline out of wack. It feels so much longer when you read it chapter by chapter. xD It actually doesn't make sense how he can fit all of this in a day. Not at all. Kishimoto is actually lucky most fans read chapter by chapter and don't actually pay attention to how all of this happens in such a short amount of time. Otherwise, we'd question the logic of all it. Like I am right now, actually.

Basically, I'd say yes. It does effect pairing perception. Now that I think about it, it seems absolutely ridiculous to have people assume Naruto's over Sakura and moved on to Hinata. It's only been a few days! It seemed ridiculous earlier either way because you can't get over love that easily but this just adds more to the ridiculousness. Naruto was still in love with Sakura during her confession which was chronologically, a few days at most. Do the NaruHina fans realize this? I actually kinda wanna tell them all now. xD

And yes, I have used the time argument in pairing wars before without really paying attention to the timeline. But I believe the only time I've actually done so was when Naruto hadn't responded to Hinata's confession right away. Though I still don't think I'm way off base with that one. Naruto was avoiding her confession for at least a week or two before the Kage Summit right? He chose to hang out with Sakura because he didn't want to give Hinata an answer. Anyway, besides that, I haven't really used the "time argument". Mostly because I either didn't think about it or felt like it was redundant. In fact, I haven't really fully realized how much things Kishi crams into the span of one day until now. What kind of Naruto fan am I?

[T XD]

You're right, Kirabook. Timeline should be taken in consideration, especially for chapters that hasn't been a long ago.

[sushi.]

How do you guys think Kishi consider this? I guess it's to some extent important, but everyone would forget sometimes. I've never thought of it before. ^^ I mean, he's spent a decade writing this stuff, just like we've spent a decade reading it. We're somewhat in the same boat, I guess..or not. Let me know what you think. (I think yes, or half-yes lol)

Edited by sushi., 13 January 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[kirabook]

You did what I was too lazy to do Chatte. Thanks. XD

I think Kishi knows where he stands on time, problem is, he's either bad at conveying that to the reader, or he gets carried away and adds too many details into each chapter, extending the story arcs longer than they should be.

Edited by kirabook, 13 January 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[sushi.]

I think time flows relatively well in that world, but sometimes the character development just completely freezes. Sometimes Kishi gets carried away like kirabook said(Kabuto VS Itachi ), and sometimes it's just too fast for me to follow. -Obito's flashbacks were way too fast for me, it left me more questions than answers.

Edited by sushi., 14 January 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[Chatte]

Yeah, the war is on the night of the second day, on going third.

It goes like this:

Kages meet, discuss things around for strategy, like sending Hachibi and Kyuubi on the island. They send them, lying to Naruto is like a mission of study or something like this.
And we have the alliance with the division formed.
Sakura is in division 3... She goes on the batterfield, Haku and Zabuza thing happens, meantime, Naruto trains, gets the Kyuubi chakra, meets his mom, talk about the past, so on and so forth. While all this happens, Yamato is captured, Naruto is lied to that he had to go. Actually, Kabuto took him.
He proceeds with the training, while people on the batter field are fighting, all that Zetsu thing happens, takes Neji's chakra.
While the Haku & Seven sword mist ninja happens, Sakura goes to the medical tents and finds about the White Zetsu secret. Beats his ass up, lol, goes and tell to the HQ. End of Day 1.

Meantime, the second day comes, Ino-Shika-Cho fights Asuma and those brothers with the 9 tail and that's when Naruto feels something. That's when he starts to become suspicious and goes out. Iruka appears and a Nara tries to get him in shadow mimic jutsu.
That's when he finds out and Iruka is unable to stop him.
He goes to the batter field, meets Raikage and Tsunade, have that little argument, they let him go. Shikaku comes with the plan with Naruto, while Sakura finds even more about white Zetsu and tells to the HQ.
Meantime, people fight the five kages, white Zetsus, Madara is brought back, bla bla.
Naruto goes on all batter fields and fights the Zetsu guy. He first saves Sakura. Oh, you Kishi, again!
Anyway, then, on all batter fields he cleans the "map" then on one batter field fights Tobi with the Bijuus, on other, Madara and second Tsuchikage, and what not.
In the end, after finding out about Zetsus's abilities from Sakura, Tsuande decides that she goes on the batterfield.
Oh, and you know, that actually, before the batter field thing, Naruto meets Itachi, so on, and so forth, they have that chit-chat moment and afterwards, Itachi meets Sasuke and battle with Kabuto.
After Tsunade joins the war, Naruto heads out to Tobi and they start fighting while the rest of the batterfield is cleared and the Shinobi alliance goes to Naruto.
And then, it gets night, and well, the on-going action.
All this, is day two.
So from 491 to 544 is day one.
From 544 to now, is day 2, on going third, since well, it's kinda night time, probably going heading towards morning of day 3, later on.

So yeah, totally, 5 (up to 6) days have passed since the Sakura's confession.
I wonder if in 5 days feelings go away...

You did what I was too lazy to do Chatte. Thanks. XD

I think Kishi knows where he stands on time, problem is, he's either bad at conveying that to the reader, or he gets carried away and adds too many details into each chapter, extending the story arcs longer than they should be.

You're welcome! ^^
Well, actually, my opinion is that, he gets carried away and gets lost in too many details.

Edited by Chatte, 14 January 2013 - 12:06 AM.

[sushi.]

They must be hungry.. and tired!

Especially those who's been fighting nonstop, like Naruto and Bee. I'm sure the units have some short meals.

Edited by sushi., 14 January 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[Chatte]

They must be hungry.. and tired!

Let's hope they've eaten.

LE: Long story short. From:
451 -> 491 (1 day)
491 -> 544 (1 day)
544 -> on going (1 day)

In between, in 491 it is mentioned that 3 days have passed since all the countries were gathering their military forces, up to when they went to the HQ.
So there you have it, the timeline.

Edited by Chatte, 14 January 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[sushi.]

Let's hope they've eaten.

Naruto and Bee didn't even have tents, they were just running around and saving people's butt. : D

[Chatte]

Naruto and Bee didn't even have tents, they were just running around and saving people's butt. : D

Well, Hachibi and Kyuubi are probably their saviors, lol.
At least Hachibi took a pee, lol!