31579 replies to this topic

[Phantom_999]

It's funny that Naruto is only series I know of that actually did that. There could be more but yeah we see now the disastrous consequences of changing plot trajectory especially last second. Granted there was so much else wrong with the War arc and it could have been done better and I attribute it to Kishimoto being wishy washy about the concept of war and giving unnecessary drama to characters he wasn't focusing on anyway with bringing back the dead on both sides etc. etc. Granted there were good and bad moments admittedly on that plot point but it was still mostly unnecessary though in the grand scheme of things. Ninjas just have to deal with death and lack of closure even with their loved ones sometimes. And even if it is, there are other ways to do it besides resurrection. Again that is just my opinion on it.

[Bail o' Lies]

It's funny that Naruto is only series I know of that actually did that. There could be more but yeah we see now the disastrous consequences of changing plot trajectory especially last second. Granted there was so much else wrong with the War arc and it could have been done better and I attribute it to Kishimoto being wishy washy about the concept of war and giving unnecessary drama to characters he wasn't focusing on anyway with bringing back the dead on both sides etc. etc. Granted there were good and bad moments admittedly on that plot point but it was still mostly unnecessary though in the grand scheme of things. Ninjas just have to deal with death and lack of closure even with their loved ones sometimes. And even if it is, there are other ways to do it besides resurrection. Again that is just my opinion on it.

In theory the war arc should have been the final trial for the cast before the final battle. But. A big problem with the war arc is that there were so little focus on the side cast beforehand that there wasn't much reason to care about their own little battles.

 

For example. Why should you care about Hinata's father facing off against his Brother if they haven't been referenced since the chunin exam?

 

You also had character he just introduce like Darui who your suppose to care about.

 

Also this is where Naruto really went into auto pilot as Ninja Messiah as Kishimoto all but completely stop having Naruto be questioned.

 

Then he did something I have never seen done before and after he did it you know why with bringing the army to the final battle. As they turned out useless and just stood around as slack jawed lemmings.

 

Editor sometime are helpful to the story. It is clear in Akane Banashi that the editor has a lot of influence as it is very similar to another manga he edited Act-Age. While making sure to deal with any problems that lead to that manga's downfall.

Edited by Bail o' Lies, 24 September 2023 - 11:04 AM.

[Moon_Girl]

It's funny that Naruto is only series I know of that actually did that. 

 

The rise of the internet and social media is a huge reason why. Just another con to add to it all. Japanese studios, authors, developers, directors, etc have access to international opinion at the click of a button now. Especially with things like DeepL and Google Translate helping bridge the language barrier. It's a good and bad thing.
Sadly, a lot of bad has come from it. A lot of loud western fans are typically sex obsessed in some way and will cling to the sexy character or fanservice character and praise them to high heaven with false praise that doesn't make sense or that the character doesn't deserve all because they get their rocks off to said character the most. Usually while burying the more important/well written character(s).

Naruto is a grand example of that and how it bit the series in the butt. If I understand humanity as well as I do, this won't be the last time something like this happens. It makes me apprehensive to ship things and trust in authors/directors/writers/etc. 
I'm a straight woman on the internet who cares more about story than sex and I like well written and well developed mutual, healthy romances. How 'sexy' or 'cute' the character is has absolutely zero bearing on me. Like, it's in the negatives. 
I already have to put up with a sex obsessed anime world where games and the like are flooded with waifus. I'm not asking for more men, just actually well written and designed characters. 
On twitter I constantly see what men prefer to ship vs females and it feels like the majority of men don't care about the ship as long as the girl is sexy and gorgeous. Obviously it's not exclusive and I hate to bring in gender to it all, but that's what it seriously feels like and things I'm noticing. It's just frustrating.

Guys kind of dominate the anime sphere so I just constantly worry about the coomers only getting catered to.

[Phantom_999]

Exactly. I want a well written, healthy romance too if the element is even going to be incorporated. Sexiness, wish fulfillment, entitlement and the like has nothing to do with it, I want genuine bonding and emotional openness without unhealthy clinginess in those types of relationships. It seems though many don't ever think of that or make lame excuses or half @$$ed attempts to justify their shallow reasons as close bonds or emotional openness.   

 

In theory the war arc should have been the final trial for the cast before the final battle. But. A big problem with the war arc is that there were so little focus on the side cast beforehand that there wasn't much reason to care about their own little battles.

 

For example. Why should you care about Hinata's father facing off against his Brother if they haven't been referenced since the chunin exam?

 

You also had character he just introduce like Darui who your suppose to care about.

 

Also this is where Naruto really went into auto pilot as Ninja Messiah as Kishimoto all but completely stop having Naruto be questioned.

 

Then he did something I have never seen done before and after he did it you know why with bringing the army to the final battle. As they turned out useless and just stood around as slack jawed lemmings.

 

Editor sometime are helpful to the story. It is clear in Akane Banashi that the editor has a lot of influence as it is very similar to another manga he edited Act-Age. While making sure to deal with any problems that lead to that manga's downfall.

 

Yeah during the War arc all of the secondary or side characters fell into one of 2 categories. 1. The focus was on them for unjustified reason or focus on their plot point was ignored for years and hundreds of chapters, or 2. They were introduced with the intent of giving them importance or you are suppose to care about them in one sense or another but they are discarded or glossed over. It was the the worst of both worlds

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 September 2023 - 02:51 PM.

[LuckyChi7]

The final part of What if Naruto went evil is here, and wow: 

 

https://youtu.be/CEc...xn1TBczaTnbRoL1

 

 

 

wouldn't call it perfect, but it was nice!

[BlueStarSaber]

Sakura has been voted 1st for strongest female character by Japan fans

https://news.livedoo...etail/25042080/

https://ranking.goo....g/54902/?page=6

[Phantom_999]

Surprising. Not that she doesn't deserve it (this isn't counting the western NUTCASES after all) but then again there are plenty of "strong" females in many manga and anime so I guess it depends on what you define as strong I suppose

[BlueStarSaber]

How Japan and the west view it are probably different

[Phantom_999]

Almost definitely

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

Kishimoto ultimately was playing Yes man to the authorities that were gaslighting him saying what a great heroine Hinata was and that she was more popular than Sakura because she is a submissive housewife type of girl that Naruto deserves and even go as far as to say that she is popular in the west because of a few youtuber otaku wannabes (I don't need to list them because everybody here knows whom I'm talking about, but feel free to input their names if you wish). Obviously they DID NOT do their research because they were ultimately hearing what they WANTED to hear and so that validated their personal views of Hinata too, ending with them pushing and pushing until Kishi said yes and it was because he just did not want to deal with the stress of it all anymore. He was finally hit with the consequences of writing manga consuming his life when his father passed away so he just caved in and thought he was giving the fans what they wanted because it was what all his editors ever since Yahagi left as his editor to be editor in chief for Jump Square, were telling him. "Hinata Hyuga is the greatest s** doll wife for Naruto and Sakura Haruno is a ball busting, emasculating she-devil that shouldn't deprive Hinata of her happiness and should get it on with her abusive neglectful crush." You can tell of of this is true because the writing in the movie doesn't add up, since it wasn't Kishi writing it. It wasn't even anyone familiar with Naruto from what I remember, as it contradicted Chapter 1/ episode1 of all things in the franchise. And well, here we are.

Doesn't help that Kishi was dealing with depression due to his dad dying, which doesn't help either with what Studio Pierrot and his editor at the time did with telling him all those falsehoods about Hinata, and how he was ready to call it quits as is. Which is what sucks BIG TIME.

[LuckyChi7]

Doesn't help that Kishi was dealing with depression due to his dad dying, which doesn't help either with what Studio Pierrot and his editor at the time did with telling him all those falsehoods about Hinata, and how he was ready to call it quits as is. Which is what sucks BIG TIME.

 

 

The biggest factor comes from the death of Kenji Kishimoto (Masashi's father) early in 2014, and honestly a 3 month break at least could've been more than enough to give him more than enough time to properly flesh out at the very least the last 3 & a half volumes.   

 

 

Regardless of who was canon at the end ->  that to me is irrelevant in this conversation personally. 

 

 

I'm more so referring to that it would've given Masashi proper time to grieve, but also give him the chance to think of Madara could've been taken out in a satisfying way at the very least by the end of Volume 70.  Then the last 20 chapters in my opinion could've easily been dedicated to The Naruto vs Sasuke fight, and have a great conclusive ending.

 

 

 

This might just be me, but  I do like that the final page of the series was this: 

 

 

   

[Moon_Girl]

Sakura has been voted 1st for strongest female character by Japan fans

https://news.livedoo...etail/25042080/

https://ranking.goo....g/54902/?page=6

Been seeing this around Twitter.
Surprising but not surprising. Hinata was never the favorite. Just to really, really loud westerners. Sakura was going to be loved regardless of whether she ended up with Naruto or Sasuke. The Japanese fandom always loved her. Just more reinforcement that Kishi was brainwashed and blinded by the minority.

[Phantom_999]

It's surprising because there are many strong females in manga/anime as I've said and the competition would be very very very tight, But also unsurprising because Sakura is well loved in Japan as many are well aware of. (the popularity polls don't lie) 

Edited by Phantom_999, 26 September 2023 - 02:57 PM.

[Bryon_Konoha_Ninja]

The biggest factor comes from the death of Kenji Kishimoto (Masashi's father) early in 2014, and honestly a 3 month break at least could've been more than enough to give him more than enough time to properly flesh out at the very least the last 3 & a half volumes.   
 
 
Regardless of who was canon at the end ->  that to me is irrelevant in this conversation personally. 
 
 
I'm more so referring to that it would've given Masashi proper time to grieve, but also give him the chance to think of Madara could've been taken out in a satisfying way at the very least by the end of Volume 70.  Then the last 20 chapters in my opinion could've easily been dedicated to The Naruto vs Sasuke fight, and have a great conclusive ending.
 
 
 
This might just be me, but  I do like that the final page of the series was this: 
 
 

I know what you mean. If he took a break, it'd ease his heart and mind. It shows the sad reality of the manga industry at times.

Also, the final page of Chapter 700 is also a nice parallel to the mural drawing of Minato when he sealed Kurama into Naruto to stop his Obito-induced rampage.

[luans7]

I was rewatching Naruto when I came across a speech by Itachi, in which he says that Sasuke is like a blank canvas and that the right person can influence him. I started thinking that Sasuke represents Masashi Kishimoto as a mangaka, and Naruto is his dream of being a mangaka. Itachi could be his editor, Kosuke Yahagi, who guided him towards success, but at one point left him. Sakura symbolizes his wife, who had a difficult relationship with him as a mangaka (Sasuke) and a great relationship when he dreamed of being a mangaka (Naruto). In the end, he showed his frustration with the mangaka life by using Naruto as Hokage, who is busy with bureaucratic work and away from his family

[LuckyChi7]

I know what you mean. If he took a break, it'd ease his heart and mind. It shows the sad reality of the manga industry at times.

Also, the final page of Chapter 700 is also a nice parallel to the mural drawing of Minato when he sealed Kurama into Naruto to stop his Obito-induced rampage.

 

 

I would definitely agree with you on that, and as far as the final page of Chapter 700 goes... 

 

That is the real beauty and essence of what it represents because in a way it's like the story coming full circle,  you end the story in the same way it ended.  

 

It's told like a legendary tale via Minato stopping Kurama, and it ends with a new legendary tale via Naruto & Kurama joining forces to stop Ten Tails! 

 

I was rewatching Naruto when I came across a speech by Itachi, in which he says that Sasuke is like a blank canvas and that the right person can influence him. I started thinking that Sasuke represents Masashi Kishimoto as a mangaka, and Naruto is his dream of being a mangaka. Itachi could be his editor, Kosuke Yahagi, who guided him towards success, but at one point left him. Sakura symbolizes his wife, who had a difficult relationship with him as a mangaka (Sasuke) and a great relationship when he dreamed of being a mangaka (Naruto). In the end, he showed his frustration with the mangaka life by using Naruto as Hokage, who is busy with bureaucratic work and away from his family

 

You know, that is honestly an interesting interpretation and it really wouldn't surprise me if that is exactly how Masashi views himself through these characters in the story.  It is common knowledge that he wanted to represent Naruto in context that was very dear to his own life with Naruto as Hokage in correlating to Masashi living his life as a Mangaka.  How it took away time from his own family and kids, and he wanted showcase how  important that was through Naruto. 

 

Which.... I understand given how Naruto is as a character it doesn't exactly fit how a lot of people have viewed his character and how we know him to  be in the series.  

 

I've given some thought into this whole scenario too for a long time, and I see why Masashi didn't want to view Naruto as like the perfect fairy tale parent we've all envisioned him too be.  In a sense bring in the real world circumstances to showcase how he is as a character when he's an adult which.... how you were as a kid and a teenager isn't exactly the same as how you are as an adult.

 

 

 

For a lot of people who read fantasy series like Naruto... him being represented in this light isn't exactly what a lot of people would agree with as it reminds them of how things are handled in real life. It create that disconnect for them where they wanna find a way of escapism for Naruto where they live the perfect happy fairy tale life and when you throw scenarios like how Kishi showcased it in the series.

 

 

 

Knowing how Masashi views Naruto's adult life and how he wanted to channel his own personal view as a mangaka into Naruto's life as Hokage.  It's one of those aspects of both Masashi and Naruto strived for their personal lifelong dreams.

 

Masashi wanting to become a Mangaka, and Naruto wanting to be Hokage, and through the next generations showcase the harsh reality of what the downsides of what it's like when they achieve their goal.  

 

 

That's also regardless of whether he ended up with Sakura, or Hinata.  The only major difference I could see with Sakura is that she'd go to his office and try and talk some sense into him, but again..... through the lenses of Masashi's writing he would showcase Naruto's stubbornness and showcasing his importance of Hokage in the village over his family. 

[BlueStarSaber]

The problem with kishimoto trying to base his family life on naruto is that naruto is a character that can be in a 1000 places at once so he has no exuse not to spend time with his kids and instead makes him look like a horrible father that doesn't want to spend time with his kids

Edited by BlueStarSaber, 27 September 2023 - 03:58 PM.

[totherpage95]

amalee made a naruto cover album please check it out i think it was well done

there's also some merch as well: https://shop.leeandl...ns/my-ninja-way
 

full song list: https://www.youtube....izyseBDoXiUTIRj
 

[totherpage95]

Sakura has been voted 1st for strongest female character by Japan fans

https://news.livedoo...etail/25042080/

https://ranking.goo....g/54902/?page=6

interesting the description says naruto's been in love with her since the academy. this must come as a shock to certain fans that are in denial

[LuckyChi7]

The problem with kishimoto trying to base his family life on naruto is that naruto is a character that can be in a 1000 places at once so he has no exuse not to spend time with his kids and instead makes him look like a horrible father that doesn't want to spend time with his kids

Thanks for repeating something weve all heard for the 1,000,000,000th time over these last 9 years.