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[Theory] Hinata was supposed to die?


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#41 tricksie

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 01:34 PM

I very agree man I mean as many have said after Pain this was all about Sasuke not Naruto Kishi just Naruto the Hokage as he knew fans would hate that Sasuke got that as well, I mean we all know why Gaiden was just so Kishi can say this is SS are together and that they do love each other.

 

Its why I love Doctor who more than Naruto true it another show but they do so well when it comes to the characters.

Yeah. So much was wrapped up in the ending without any build-up, explanation or validation. Like SS. I have said since the end of the manga, that the story "ended" but was finished. Only Hinata fans were satisfied with the resolution of the character arc. If you were Naruto or Sakura fan, then their goals (or intended goals) were left unresolved. As for Sasuke fans...well, there might be some out there, but by the end, his actions and reasoning was so far out there, I doubt he had any true fans left. There wasn't much left to like about him, even though Kishi built the whole story around him. And I completely agree about the Doctor!!!!!!! What a well-written story, each and every one. They never confuse the main character, never let things end unresolved. Just so good to watch and be part of!!!

 

I have zero hate for Hinata its impossible and ridiculous to hate a character whose entire existence is as signifigant as the wallpaper on the bathroom wall.

 

Hinatas death if it had occured would have closed her story out with a level of relevance that she lacked prior to the event. Its a death that would have meant something to both her and to the other characters.

 

But in the end the scene was rendered pointless and she was reduced to plot device levels as part of the excuse for naruto to go boom. Not even the entire reason just the last straw as much as anything.

Lol! Right - I don't hate Hinata either! But her role to play in the Pain scene was to move Naruto into the next level. And she could have died or just be mortally wounded (like she was in the manga), and it would have gotten Naruto to the same place. Even in her level of activity there — her one shining moment thus far in the manga — she was still rendered a plot device. It wouldn't have effected the outcome of the series if Hinata did die!

 

If it were Sakura, if she were hurt, Naruto wouldn't necessarily have freaked out. But if she died, then he would have lost it completely. And if Sakura died, then it would have drastically altered the outcome of the story for Naruto (as she was his love interest) and teammate. Hinata and Sakura simply do not have the same weight in the story. And they never have.

 

 

Structurally, in order for the swap out to work, you simply need someone close to Naruto in order to jump in, rescue him, seemingly get killed and cause Naruto to go nine-tails mode. I've given multiple characters not-named Hinata who could serve this purpose and keep the overall narrative structure in tact. Your argument in regards to Hinata aren't about structure, but instead about the weight and impact. Tone, if you will. I disagree of course, but given the subjective nature that such an argument leans upon, I'm willing to agree to disagree.

This is exactly right. It didn't need to be Hinata. It could have been Kakashi. Or Konohamaru. Or Shikamaru. Those people were a lot more important to Naruto's development than Hinata. The mark of a good character in a story is whether they can be removed or not, and how much it would change the story if they were. Hinata fails this test on multiple levels. 

 

 

As I've expressed in multiple threads, that's Sakura's arc throughout part 2 in a nutshell: Wasted potential. WIth the ending we got, we're forced to conclude that Sakura's overall character arc ended in part 1 and that she was simply along for the ride in part 2. Kishi puts her in several big moments throughout part 2, but they never end up amounting to anything and always get subverted afterwards. 

 

As for Naruto's arc, I'm still scratching my head about what exactly it was. In part 1, it's all about acknowledgment. In part 2, borderline insanity is my best guess. 

 

Sasuke's arc was incredibly lazy and all over the place. Honestly, I've been giving it some thought, but if it had to be done all over again, the best approach for Sasuke as of part 2 would be to keep him behind the scenes at all times until the final arc (which wouldn't be the crappy war arc, but something more central to Konoha). Naruto would be actively looking for Sasuke, but would always be one step behind and the readers would only be exposed to whatever chaos/carnage/problems he has left behind. Without actually seeing him, Sasuke is always left to the reader's imagination. How strong he has gotten. How terrifying he is. How dark he has grown. We wouldn't know! There could be a scene where Naruto and company arrive at Orochimaru's lair, only to encounter a crazed beaten and battered Orochimaru, laughing devilishly about the monster he's created. T

 

This approach makes Sasuke menacing, but also keeps him thoroughly in the background, given us more time to focus on Naruto getting actual growth and character development related to his goal of becoming Hokage (none of this "If I can't save a friend, I don't deserve to be hokage" stuff). It also gives us more time to work on Sakura and assess her character flaws in a fashion that is woven wonderfully into a narrative. Thus, when the final story arc rolls around, we have two characters mentally/emotionally/physically ready to bring Sasuke back together  just as they promised to do in the final chapter of part 1. And they would do so using each and every lesson they had learned throughout their respective arcs.  :yes:  

Yes - Sakura ended up being nothing but wasted potential. It was almost like a cruel joke that they made her come so far — to Tsunade's level at such a young age — only to give it all up and become a house wife for a dead-beat dad. Your whole first paragraph sums up her whole storyline perfectly!!



#42 ThroughWithLove

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 03:32 PM

 

You haven't demonstrated understanding of contradiction.

 

You also don't understand quantity does not equal quality.

 

Also Kishi's Editors suggested to Sasuke to get that team, not Kishi himself. It's hard to really argue the scene isn't a Red Herring, given what the ending is. I.E., you don't have a concluding foundation to stand in, but I'll let the speculation go.

 

The Last part I wrote about, specifically that the way this was executed hurt Sakura's relevance. I.E., of all of the Konoha characters, Sakura's relevance is significantly damaged by overshadowing.

 

I have demonstrated an understanding of contradiction. If you want, we can put the matter to a vote amongst 3 impartial members on this forum as far as who has the more persuasive argument. Otherwise, dead horse is dead.  :yes:

 

See above. Same proposal.

 

Then Kishi editors and Kishi were fixated with shiny objects as opposed to actual character development for the (former) heroine. Would've bee nice if we didn't have waste time with Madara, Indra/Ashura, the Sage of Six Paths. Even better if the War Arc and Kage Summit Arc never existed. :yes:

 

In regards to this red herring business, two things: (1) You're making an argument after the fact. If the red herring debate is premised on whether the author was telling the truth or whether he's simply covering his behind after the story has ended, then saying "Well the author said it's a red herring!" is not a valid argument. (2) Acknowledging that the scene wasn't a red herring and that it was merely part of the stage at which the author was 'on the fence' about NS isn't even harmful to your alleged position (that NH was planned early), so I don't really get this hard-on to diminish any notion of a scene supporting NS (especially when I'm merely talking about ways the scene could be used to transition into Sakura interrupting Pain instead of Hinata). Well actually, I do, but that's a different conversation entirely. :wink:

 

As to Sakura's diminished relevance, I've already read what you wrote in another thread about it. Even commented on ways to make her more interesting outside of simply having the ability to hit stuff really hard (granted, if we take Boku No Hero Academia into account, even that power can be made really technical and interesting if the author is clever enough). I don't really think it was a matter of getting overshadowed necessarily since the author has shown the ability to give characters not-named Naruto/Sasuke the spotlight for a sufficient amount of time. I simply think he had no clue what to do with her and that readers misinterpreted all of the little plot crumbs being thrown in Sakura's direction as being anything more than the author desperately trying to find something that sticks. That's my two cents anyway.


Edited by ThroughWithLove, 28 July 2017 - 03:54 PM.

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Behold! Akame ga Kill's True Canon Pairing!





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