54175 replies to this topic

[TouKen4Life3g]

I see. One day, we will have a ultra filler chapter and people will still find a way to complain on something that DIDNT happen here.

[KnS]

**Warning**  Incoming Wall of Text!

 

 

As for the allegations of negativity and the feelings of censorship they inspire, well, that's a sticky wicket.

 

Readers tend to be complainers.  They are frequently dissatisfied no matter what they get.  They judge and critize and whine and bash, and sometimes even boast about how much better they could do if they were writing the story.  It has always been easier to destroy than to create -- especially when you're not the one doing the hard work of creation.

 

Nevertheless, expressing disappointment on a public forum is not a sin. At least it shouldn't be.  Emotional investment in a story means a wide variety of reactions are possible, from giddy elation to bitterness to enough hatred to drop a story entirely.  

 

But the simple fact is, when you are a member of a public forum you do not get to dictate the way others respond.  That may seem like an obvious point, but apparently it's not.  And it goes both ways; you can't stop people from being excessively negative, and you can't stop that excessive negativity from annoying people who choose a more positive or balanced outlook.

 

That said....

 

I think it's important for all of us to remember the distinction between considered critique -- that may be negative -- and complaints due to personal expectations.  They are so NOT the same thing.

 

With regard to the disappointment many seem to be feeling with Sakura's role?  I have to say that I honestly don't get it, and feel much of it falls squarely within the "personal expectations" category.

 

Most of the "Kishimoto has failed Sakura" complaints seem to come from westerners, like myself, and I wonder if that is not part of the problem.  Many westerners have a preoccupation with feminism, and (IMO) an oversensitivity when it comes to how women are portrayed.  The expectations placed on female characters are such that you hear shrieks of outrage the moment a woman shows even what is normal, human weakness.  The path that heroines must take through the swamp of western expectations is so perilous these days that few, if any, survive.

 

As a refresher, here's the definition of heroine:

 

her·o·ine  (hĕr′ō-ĭn)

n.

   1. A woman noted for courage and daring action.

   2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.

   3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation. 

 

Kishimoto has very clearly and strongly characterized Sakura in this way, and I see no room to criticize him on this point.  Sakura is the heroine of the story and deserves the title.  (Incidentally, when Kishimoto made the comment that Hinata was acting like more of a heroine than Sakura during the Pain arc, he was referring strictly to #1; she does not qualify for #2 or #3.)

 

Despite stating unequivocally that Sakura is the herioine, Kishimoto never said he was going to involve Sakura directly in the struggle over power and ideology that exists between Naruto and Sasuke, neither has he written the story that way.  It has been obvious since the earliest days of Part I that the rivalry -- the main conflict of the story -- is between the boys.  

 

To be disappointed that Sakura is not included in the resolution of this conflict is, in my opinion, to project personal expectations onto her role rather than looking at what Kishimoto has actually put in place.  Kishimoto is not responsible for meeting the personal expectations of individual readers.  He is responsible for writing what he has set up, and in the case of Sakura I believe he has.

 

Sakura is a member of Team 7, yes, but she is not involved in the light vs. dark / love vs. power struggle.  If there was any true confusion on that in the plot, it was swept away with the recent revelation that the boys are reincarnations of two brothers whose souls and chakra have been fighting this battle for generations.  Considering the way the stage has been set, I think it would be odd if she did play a significant role in it.  

 

That does not mean Sakura has accomplished nothing of her own, that her role on Team 7 is less than the boys, or that she is nothing but romance fodder.  I reject all of those judgments as gross oversimplifications.

 

From the beginning Sakura was the "normal" member of Team 7.  She had less emotional baggage to start, and in a sense that was her burden.  She didn't understand the feelings and motivations of her teammates, and her path to personhood and success as a ninja was never the same as either Naruto or Sasuke.  

 

Naruto and Sasuke are driven by their pasts, while Sakura is driven by her future.  This has been evident in the team dynamic from the beginning, even before we found out about the reincarnation angle.  She is always looking forward, while the boys are (in varying degrees) looking backward.  That's why Sakura has no place in their conflict; it must be settled before her future can take shape.

 

And that is NOT because of romance.  It's because Sakura is on the side of right.  She believes in Naruto's way.  She realized before Naruto did that he needed the support of those around him, of those who believe in him and love him, and she dedicated herself to making that sense of solidarity a reality for his success.

 

Without Sakura's support -- in terms of morale, life-saving, and ideology -- it is arguable that Naruto would not have reached his current position.  It is by fulfilling her role as Naruto's committed teammate -- the role Kishimoto designed for her from the beginning -- that Sakura rises far beyond Sasuke, and proves herself Naruto's equal.  

 

Both Naruto and Sakura have done their best in their respective roles, using their respective training and experience, and they have done so together.  Their interaction through the latest chapters has been a detailed metaphor for the bell test -- which they also passed by working together without Sasuke.  If Sasuke is redeemed in the end, it will be because of Naruto and Sakura's collaboration, just as she wished.

 

The fact that Sakura has been the pivotal character in the love triangle is merely an extension of the core conflict between the boys, not her main purpose.  In all other ways she has succeeded as Naruto's reliable teammate.  What remains to be resolved is whether Sakura, as a loving girl, has fallen in love with the warm man who represents love, cooperation, and unity, or if she will remain drawn to the cold man who represents power, control, and self-service?

 

Obvious answer is obvious.  Just my opinion.  

Edited by KnS, 19 April 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[FireFox]

 

**Warning**  Incoming Wall of Text!

 

 

As for the allegations of negativity and the feelings of censorship they inspire, well, that's a sticky wicket.

 

Readers tend to be complainers.  They are frequently dissatisfied no matter what they get.  They judge and critize and whine and bash, and sometimes even boast about how much better they could do if they were writing the story.  It has always been easier to destroy than to create -- especially when you're not the one doing the hard work of creation.

 

Nevertheless, expressing disappointment on a public forum is not a sin. At least it shouldn't be.  Emotional investment in a story means a wide variety of reactions are possible, from giddy elation to bitterness to enough hatred to drop a story entirely.  

 

But the simple fact is, when you are a member of a public forum you do not get to dictate the way others respond.  That may seem like an obvious point, but apparently it's not.  And it goes both ways; you can't stop people from being excessively negative, and you can't stop that excessive negativity from annoying people who choose a more positive or balanced outlook.

 

That said....

 

I think it's important for all of us to remember the distinction between considered critique -- that may be negative -- and complaints due to personal expectations.  They are so NOT the same thing.

 

With regard to the disappointment many seem to be feeling with Sakura's role?  I have to say that I honestly don't get it, and feel much of it falls squarely within the "personal expectations" category.

 

Most of the "Kishimoto has failed Sakura" complaints seem to come from westerners, like myself, and I wonder if that is not part of the problem.  Many westerners have a preoccupation with feminism, and (IMO) an oversensitivity when it comes to how women are portrayed.  The expectations placed on female characters are such that you hear shrieks of outrage the moment a woman shows even what is normal, human weakness.  The path that heroines must take through the swamp of western expectations is so perilous these days that few, if any, survive.

 

As a refresher, here's the definition of heroine:

 

her·o·ine  (hĕr′ō-ĭn)

n.

   1. A woman noted for courage and daring action.

   2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.

   3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation. 

 

Kishimoto has very clearly and strongly characterized Sakura in this way, and I see no room to criticize him on this point.  Sakura is the heroine of the story and deserves the title.  (Incidentally, when Kishimoto made the comment that Hinata was acting like more of a heroine than Sakura during the Pain arc, he was referring strictly to #1; she does not qualify for #2 or #3.)

 

Despite stating unequivocally that Sakura is the herioine, Kishimoto never said he was going to involve Sakura directly in the struggle over power and ideology that exists between Naruto and Sasuke, neither has he written the story that way.  It has been obvious since the earliest days of Part I that the rivalry -- the main conflict of the story -- is between the boys.  

 

To be disappointed that Sakura is not included in the resolution of this conflict is, in my opinion, to project personal expectations onto her role rather than looking at what Kishimoto has actually put in place.  Kishimoto is not responsible for meeting the personal expectations of individual readers.  He is responsible for writing what he has set up, and in the case of Sakura I believe he has.

 

Sakura is a member of Team 7, yes, but she is not involved in the light vs. dark / love vs. power struggle.  If there was any true confusion on that in the plot, it was swept away with the recent revelation that the boys are reincarnations of two brothers whose souls and chakra have been fighting this battle for generations.  Considering the way the stage has been set, I think it would be odd if she did play a significant role in it.  

 

That does not mean Sakura has accomplished nothing of her own, that her role on Team 7 is less than the boys, or that she is nothing but romance fodder.  I reject all of those judgments as gross oversimplifications.

 

From the beginning Sakura was the "normal" member of Team 7.  She had less emotional baggage to start, and in a sense that was her burden.  She didn't understand the feelings and motivations of her teammates, and her path to personhood and success as a ninja was never the same as either Naruto or Sasuke.  

 

Naruto and Sasuke are driven by their pasts, while Sakura is driven by her future.  This has been evident in the team dynamic from the beginning, even before we found out about the reincarnation angle.  She is always looking forward, while the boys are (in varying degrees) looking backward.  That's why Sakura has no place in their conflict; it must be settled before her future can take shape.

 

And that is NOT because of romance.  It's because Sakura is on the side of right.  She believes in Naruto's way.  She realized before Naruto did that he needed the support of those around him, of those who believe in him and love him, and she dedicated herself to making that sense of solidarity a reality for his success.

 

Without Sakura's support -- in terms of morale, life-saving, and ideology -- it is arguable that Naruto would not have reached his current position.  It is by fulfilling her role as Naruto's committed teammate -- the role Kishimoto designed for her from the beginning -- that Sakura rises far beyond Sasuke, and proves herself Naruto's equal.  

 

Both Naruto and Sakura have done their best in their respective roles, using their respective training and experience, and they have done so together.  Their interaction through the latest chapters has been a detailed metaphor for the bell test -- which they also passed by working together without Sasuke.  If Sasuke is redeemed in the end, it will be because of Naruto and Sakura's collaboration, just as she wished.

 

The fact that Sakura has been the pivotal character in the love triangle is merely an extension of the core conflict between the boys, not her main purpose.  In all other ways she has succeeded as Naruto's reliable teammate.  What remains to be resolved is whether Sakura, as a loving girl, has fallen in love with the warm man who represents love, cooperation, and unity, or if she will remain drawn to the cold man who represents power, control, and self-service?

 

Obvious answer is obvious.  Just my opinion.  

 

THIS!!!!  You sir are a boss and you have my respect

 

[ramenanmitsu]

Pretty much the same thing everyday....people can't agree to disagree.

If you're talking about me and Darkerest, we're just enjoying our discussion as if we're uni students that's why it's taking a long time, talking about the specifics is just for fun ;) In case you're worried, we're not being sinister to each other at all.

Even if I disagree with him, he replies in a calm manner so all the more enjoyable. If we agreed everything to each other 100% I wouldn't have an enjoyable discussion with him!

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 April 2014 - 01:18 AM.

[Gojira]

Does anyone know if Kishi had anything to do with the 6th OVA?

 

I know he designed the t-shirts that was sold with them, but that's about all the info I could dig up on the OVA.

 

Who knows maybe we'll have an NS moment in the manga pretty soon.

[James S Cassidy]

 

**Warning**  Incoming Wall of Text!

 

 

As for the allegations of negativity and the feelings of censorship they inspire, well, that's a sticky wicket.

 

Readers tend to be complainers.  They are frequently dissatisfied no matter what they get.  They judge and critize and whine and bash, and sometimes even boast about how much better they could do if they were writing the story.  It has always been easier to destroy than to create -- especially when you're not the one doing the hard work of creation.

 

Nevertheless, expressing disappointment on a public forum is not a sin. At least it shouldn't be.  Emotional investment in a story means a wide variety of reactions are possible, from giddy elation to bitterness to enough hatred to drop a story entirely.  

 

But the simple fact is, when you are a member of a public forum you do not get to dictate the way others respond.  That may seem like an obvious point, but apparently it's not.  And it goes both ways; you can't stop people from being excessively negative, and you can't stop that excessive negativity from annoying people who choose a more positive or balanced outlook.

 

That said....

 

I think it's important for all of us to remember the distinction between considered critique -- that may be negative -- and complaints due to personal expectations.  They are so NOT the same thing.

 

With regard to the disappointment many seem to be feeling with Sakura's role?  I have to say that I honestly don't get it, and feel much of it falls squarely within the "personal expectations" category.

 

Most of the "Kishimoto has failed Sakura" complaints seem to come from westerners, like myself, and I wonder if that is not part of the problem.  Many westerners have a preoccupation with feminism, and (IMO) an oversensitivity when it comes to how women are portrayed.  The expectations placed on female characters are such that you hear shrieks of outrage the moment a woman shows even what is normal, human weakness.  The path that heroines must take through the swamp of western expectations is so perilous these days that few, if any, survive.

 

As a refresher, here's the definition of heroine:

 

her·o·ine  (hĕr′ō-ĭn)

n.

   1. A woman noted for courage and daring action.

   2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.

   3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation. 

 

Kishimoto has very clearly and strongly characterized Sakura in this way, and I see no room to criticize him on this point.  Sakura is the heroine of the story and deserves the title.  (Incidentally, when Kishimoto made the comment that Hinata was acting like more of a heroine than Sakura during the Pain arc, he was referring strictly to #1; she does not qualify for #2 or #3.)

 

Despite stating unequivocally that Sakura is the herioine, Kishimoto never said he was going to involve Sakura directly in the struggle over power and ideology that exists between Naruto and Sasuke, neither has he written the story that way.  It has been obvious since the earliest days of Part I that the rivalry -- the main conflict of the story -- is between the boys.  

 

To be disappointed that Sakura is not included in the resolution of this conflict is, in my opinion, to project personal expectations onto her role rather than looking at what Kishimoto has actually put in place.  Kishimoto is not responsible for meeting the personal expectations of individual readers.  He is responsible for writing what he has set up, and in the case of Sakura I believe he has.

 

Sakura is a member of Team 7, yes, but she is not involved in the light vs. dark / love vs. power struggle.  If there was any true confusion on that in the plot, it was swept away with the recent revelation that the boys are reincarnations of two brothers whose souls and chakra have been fighting this battle for generations.  Considering the way the stage has been set, I think it would be odd if she did play a significant role in it.  

 

That does not mean Sakura has accomplished nothing of her own, that her role on Team 7 is less than the boys, or that she is nothing but romance fodder.  I reject all of those judgments as gross oversimplifications.

 

From the beginning Sakura was the "normal" member of Team 7.  She had less emotional baggage to start, and in a sense that was her burden.  She didn't understand the feelings and motivations of her teammates, and her path to personhood and success as a ninja was never the same as either Naruto or Sasuke.  

 

Naruto and Sasuke are driven by their pasts, while Sakura is driven by her future.  This has been evident in the team dynamic from the beginning, even before we found out about the reincarnation angle.  She is always looking forward, while the boys are (in varying degrees) looking backward.  That's why Sakura has no place in their conflict; it must be settled before her future can take shape.

 

And that is NOT because of romance.  It's because Sakura is on the side of right.  She believes in Naruto's way.  She realized before Naruto did that he needed the support of those around him, of those who believe in him and love him, and she dedicated herself to making that sense of solidarity a reality for his success.

 

Without Sakura's support -- in terms of morale, life-saving, and ideology -- it is arguable that Naruto would not have reached his current position.  It is by fulfilling her role as Naruto's committed teammate -- the role Kishimoto designed for her from the beginning -- that Sakura rises far beyond Sasuke, and proves herself Naruto's equal.  

 

Both Naruto and Sakura have done their best in their respective roles, using their respective training and experience, and they have done so together.  Their interaction through the latest chapters has been a detailed metaphor for the bell test -- which they also passed by working together without Sasuke.  If Sasuke is redeemed in the end, it will be because of Naruto and Sakura's collaboration, just as she wished.

 

The fact that Sakura has been the pivotal character in the love triangle is merely an extension of the core conflict between the boys, not her main purpose.  In all other ways she has succeeded as Naruto's reliable teammate.  What remains to be resolved is whether Sakura, as a loving girl, has fallen in love with the warm man who represents love, cooperation, and unity, or if she will remain drawn to the cold man who represents power, control, and self-service?

 

Obvious answer is obvious.  Just my opinion.  

 

At least someone get its. Kudos to you, my friend.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

feelings

WAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! MY FEELINGS!!!!

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 April 2014 - 02:34 AM.

[咲耶姫]

And we have seen Sakura blushing for Naruto far more times in part 2 than for anyone else!! Hell, most of the times she has blushed! What's the big deal if she blushed for Sasuke? We all know how many times Naruto has made her blush and I think its far greater than '1' blush from Sasuke!

 

 

What about post Heaven and Earth bridge scene, in the forest?
What about Sakura's reaction to 'I kinda feel, this brings both of us closer to Sasuke'(Naruto's words)?
What about feeding Ramen scene, just before she makes up her mind to feed him?
What about the post hug scene? Btw she is shown blushing as everyone praises Naruto.
What about the tender pink look she gave to Naruto just after his showdown with Sasuke?

 

Unfortunately, I have to disagree, Sakura has blushed only once in part 2 and it's at the beginning when she first met Naruto. All thoses moments you have pointed out are filler from the anime. 

But at least the only blushing time NS get is a true romantic hint. While, the blush Sakura get over Sasuke is more because of the situation in which she is surprised by the fact that he saved her. 

But anyway, as many said and I'm one of them, this blush is unnecessary to be discussed about. It has no importance. 

[ramenanmitsu]

feelings

WAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! MY FEELINGS!!!!

Lol what the hell is that? Your favorite character got killed or something?

[rocci]

Lol what the hell is that? Your favorite character got killed or something?

I think that's a character from "high school of the dead" manga. An echi zombie apocalyp manga. That guy with glasses is a weapon otaku. While the other guy is the main character.

[Gojira]

So do you guys think Obito will drop an NS bomb soon? whether its a Rin parallel or otherwise

Not that I think a Rin parallel is really needed since its been hammered in already that Obito=Naruto and Rin really resembles nobody else other than Sakura

[Dkey]

So do you guys think Obito will drop an NS bomb soon? whether its a Rin parallel or otherwise

Not that I think a Rin parallel is really needed since its been hammered in already that Obito=Naruto and Rin really resembles nobody else other than Sakura

at this point i would prefer if his request would be to move the story forwatd amd not just be something of a filler

[narusaku256]

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I have to disagree, Sakura has blushed only once in part 2 and it's at the beginning when she first met Naruto. All thoses moments you have pointed out are filler from the anime. 

But at least the only blushing time NS get is a true romantic hint. While, the blush Sakura get over Sasuke is more because of the situation in which she is surprised by the fact that he saved her. 

But anyway, as many said and I'm one of them, this blush is unnecessary to be discussed about. It has no importance. 

Really? Were they fillers? Oh my bad! Sorry for that! Okay so the blushing score settles for 1-1 then

Edited by narusaku256, 20 April 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Hanabi]

Lol what the hell is that? Your favorite character got killed or something?

a nice girl character was going to off herself as zombie bait or sth.. and that glasses guy is going to end her misery

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

a nice girl character was going to off herself as zombie bait or sth.. and that glasses guy is going to end her misery

They both loved each otehr, the author setup as his love interest and he had to kill her.

This guy(Hirano) is infinite times more alpha than the main character who has three girls whom likes him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 20 April 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[redragon88]

They both loved each otehr, the author setup as his love interest and he had to kill her.

This guy(Hirano) is infinite times more alpha than the main character who has three girls whom likes him.

 

It's been years since I read that manga but from what I remember it's implied that the girl with glasses (what was her name?) likes Hirano too. It's a pity that the manga was felt on hiatus and never resumed again.

[Hanabi]

I can't wait for this to be animated ns style

Edited by Hanabi, 20 April 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[melovechoco]

@ hanabi

Owh yeah!

[Gojira]

I wonder if Naruto really will confess or if he'll jump straight into a proposal like what Haru Glory or Edward Elric did. Ofcourse it being a shonen it ain't going to be a standard proposal (I can't picture anyone in Naruto getting down on one knee or anything like that) but who knows

imo its just as likely for him to confess as it is for him not to confess.

[ramenanmitsu]

 

They both loved each otehr, the author setup as his love interest and he had to kill her.

This guy(Hirano) is infinite times more alpha than the main character who has three girls whom likes him.

That's sad :/
 
 

To KnS

 

Most of the "Kishimoto has failed Sakura" complaints seem to come from westerners, like myself, and I wonder if that is not part of the problem.  Many westerners have a preoccupation with feminism, and (IMO) an oversensitivity when it comes to how women are portrayed.  The expectations placed on female characters are such that you hear shrieks of outrage the moment a woman shows even what is normal, human weakness.  The path that heroines must take through the swamp of western expectations is so perilous these days that few, if any, survive.

I agree with the bolded. I do think that the hatred directed to a female character is considerably larger than that directed to a male character. It seems that when a female character makes a single mistake, she's branded "useless" forever, but when a male character makes a mistake and overcomes it, the branding is gone. (Ex. I really don't know how Neji's arrogance or Gaara's murdering attempt was any better than Sakura calling out on Naruto, but in the fandom people still call Sakura a thoughtless b*tch, when Neji and Gaara doesn't have nearly half of those accusations anymore. ) It's just my impression so I may be wrong regarding this.
 

 
As a refresher, here's the definition of heroine:
 
her·o·ine  (hĕr′ō-ĭn)
n.
   1. A woman noted for courage and daring action.
   2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.
   3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation. 
 
Kishimoto has very clearly and strongly characterized Sakura in this way, and I see no room to criticize him on this point.  Sakura is the heroine of the story and deserves the title.  (Incidentally, when Kishimoto made the comment that Hinata was acting like more of a heroine than Sakura during the Pain arc, he was referring strictly to #1; she does not qualify for #2 or #3.)
 
Despite stating unequivocally that Sakura is the herioine, Kishimoto never said he was going to involve Sakura directly in the struggle over power and ideology that exists between Naruto and Sasuke, neither has he written the story that way.  It has been obvious since the earliest days of Part I that the rivalry -- the main conflict of the story -- is between the boys.  
 
To be disappointed that Sakura is not included in the resolution of this conflict is, in my opinion, to project personal expectations onto her role rather than looking at what Kishimoto has actually put in place.  Kishimoto is not responsible for meeting the personal expectations of individual readers.  He is responsible for writing what he has set up, and in the case of Sakura I believe he has.
 
Sakura is a member of Team 7, yes, but she is not involved in the light vs. dark / love vs. power struggle.  If there was any true confusion on that in the plot, it was swept away with the recent revelation that the boys are reincarnations of two brothers whose souls and chakra have been fighting this battle for generations.  Considering the way the stage has been set, I think it would be odd if she did play a significant role in it.  
 
That does not mean Sakura has accomplished nothing of her own, that her role on Team 7 is less than the boys, or that she is nothing but romance fodder.  I reject all of those judgments as gross oversimplifications.
 
From the beginning Sakura was the "normal" member of Team 7.  She had less emotional baggage to start, and in a sense that was her burden.  She didn't understand the feelings and motivations of her teammates, and her path to personhood and success as a ninja was never the same as either Naruto or Sasuke.  
 
Naruto and Sasuke are driven by their pasts, while Sakura is driven by her future.  This has been evident in the team dynamic from the beginning, even before we found out about the reincarnation angle.  She is always looking forward, while the boys are (in varying degrees) looking backward.  That's why Sakura has no place in their conflict; it must be settled before her future can take shape.
 
And that is NOT because of romance.  It's because Sakura is on the side of right.  She believes in Naruto's way.  She realized before Naruto did that he needed the support of those around him, of those who believe in him and love him, and she dedicated herself to making that sense of solidarity a reality for his success.
 
Without Sakura's support -- in terms of morale, life-saving, and ideology -- it is arguable that Naruto would not have reached his current position.  It is by fulfilling her role as Naruto's committed teammate -- the role Kishimoto designed for her from the beginning -- that Sakura rises far beyond Sasuke, and proves herself Naruto's equal.  
 
Both Naruto and Sakura have done their best in their respective roles, using their respective training and experience, and they have done so together.  Their interaction through the latest chapters has been a detailed metaphor for the bell test -- which they also passed by working together without Sasuke.  If Sasuke is redeemed in the end, it will be because of Naruto and Sakura's collaboration, just as she wished.
 
The fact that Sakura has been the pivotal character in the love triangle is merely an extension of the core conflict between the boys, not her main purpose.  In all other ways she has succeeded as Naruto's reliable teammate.  What remains to be resolved is whether Sakura, as a loving girl, has fallen in love with the warm man who represents love, cooperation, and unity, or if she will remain drawn to the cold man who represents power, control, and self-service?
 
Obvious answer is obvious.  Just my opinion.  
 

Where did you get the source of Kishi calling out Hinata to be acting more like a heroine? I thought it was discussed many times in this site also that the correct translation for his interview was "Everybody says Hinata, Hinata, Hinata, but Sakura is still the heroine." Or is it a new interview?
 
Regarding the above post it was very thoughtful and made me think a lot. That said, there are a few things I would like to ask/point out. 
 
Could you please elaborate in what you mean as critique? I have always thought that discussing the story's consistency in the characterization and plot would be considered a reasonable critique. 
 
I agree with what you say, that in regards to your perception, yes she is a heroine. However, I think that the problem so far was that people had a different perception, in regards to how Kishi portrayed Sakura, to you. 
 

To be disappointed that Sakura is not included in the resolution of this conflict is, in my opinion, to project personal expectations onto her role rather than looking at what Kishimoto has actually put in place.  Kishimoto is not responsible for meeting the personal expectations of individual readers.  He is responsible for writing what he has set up, and in the case of Sakura I believe he has.

This I can agree. But what I would like to point out is that people who have been negative towards Sakura so far were not necessarily, not looking at what Kishimoto has actually put in place. As you said, he is responsible for writing what he has set up. The point is people do not have the same view in regards to WHAT he set up. Therefore, for some people he is inconsistent, and to some people he isn't.
 
In my opinion, the few people's comments regarding KIshi's consistency in regards to Sakura's characterization was not entirely unjustified. Sakura herself has stated many times that "she will protect her teammates" and "bring her team back together." Is it wrong for people to assume that she will take a more involved role in team 7 after part 2, and that is the main driving force for her character? For me as one of the reader, this was Sakura's main character point in part 2 as much as Naruto's "never give up" attitude and "wanting recognition".
 
However, in the middle of part 2, she became more of an observer. In the five Kage Summit arc, she has concluded that, "There is nothing I can do but have faith in them." Is it wrong to assume that this statement of hers were contradicting her original characterization in the beginning of part two? As her fan, I was disappointed because it looked like the driving point of her character went down the drain. To me, if Naruto decided that he was too lazy to become the Hokage then I would be equally disappointed because he contradicted the "never give up" attitude that was the main character point. Is pointing this out not critique enough? 
 
I understand that now the stage has been set with "Ashura vs Indra (Light vs. Darkness)" and that the fight between Naruto and Sasuke is supposed to be for the two of them. The problem I have with this is that this stage has been set recently after few hundreds of chapters later from the start of part 2. And as you can see above, I had a different perception of how Kishi set up Sakura's character. So, to me I felt like I was forced to change my view of Sakura with no warning beforehand. (Also, after the VoTE, Sakura said that she was going to train and bring back Sasuke, "together". Which I perceived it as the final development of her characterization in part 1, and a set up of her character in part 2.)
 
In the end, I guess it all comes to the perception of what Kishi set up. And regards to how you perceive Kishi set up Sakura's character, you are absolutely correct. At the same time, other people had a different perception for a reason. 
 
P.S. One thing that I believe was definitely my mistake is that I viewed Sakura as a "character", not a "heroine". I believe viewing her as a "character" may have brought me many misunderstandings in regards to her characterization. I should not think of Sakura in the same thought process as I think of any other male characters. (This didn't seem to be a problem when I think of Arya from Game of Thrones, or Dagny Taggart from Atlas Shrugged). 
 
This is just my two cents. And I am in no way trying to force it to you or attack you at all 

Edited by ramenanmitsu, 20 April 2014 - 04:48 PM.