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Final Fantasy XIII Part 3: Lightning Returns


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#41 Greed-Sama

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 24 2012, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"The problem with the overall plot is not that it's horrible; it's that it is poorly delivered. The game offers bits and pieces of dialogue during breaks between combat sections, but most don't last very long or go into too much detail. Only the six main party members really receive any development, but that's only after the player spends over forty hours with them. Even then, there are still sections of the plot that feel forced and unfinished. The antagonists are very poorly established and get so little screen time players will have a hard time getting to know them. Many ancillary characters are met for only a few brief moments, but the party often has a strong reaction when something happens to them, which will leave players puzzled as to why a character met five minutes ago created such an emotional response. Lots of events in the story feel like a stretch, as if there were scenes that would have helped build a more believable foundation behind what actually happens, but were cut without working in a new transition. For every moment the plot of Final Fantasy XIII starts to shine, it is cut short and not explained well enough to care about."


So you quoted someone else's opinion? That's not what I asked.

The main six are characterized well enough. Dialogue is incorporated to give a decent balance between pacing and characterization. At some point scenes become encumbered if drawn out too long. They've been branded; they have to complete their objective before they become Cie'th. That becomes the doomsday clock. The authors are given leeway to combat this, and it even allows for some wiggle room. But like I said, at some point it would screw up the pacing. The narrative drive would no longer exist.

As for the auxiliary characters providing emotional responses. People will sympathize with those that are in the same situation (aka Cid). It's an egotistical reaction, not altruistic.

And antagonists do not always have to be known or characterized - that's a highly modern concept that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The fact that they aren't known provides a more mystical approach, which works considering the context.
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#42 FullmetalNinja25

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:05 AM

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Dec 24 2012, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In terms of what? Gamplay? Lack of exploration? Because that's the only arguable point. The story is well done with rich, deep characters. (Lightning is not a female Cloud)

The characters couldn't be any more 1 dimensional if you flattened them with a steamroller and the story is equally paper thin.

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#43 Gravenimage

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:23 AM

Last I checked this is a thread about XIII-3 not bashing and flaming the XIII franchise. Let's agree to disagree okay. sleep.gif

Edited by Gravenimage, 25 December 2012 - 01:23 AM.

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#44 Greed-Sama

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 01:35 AM

QUOTE (Edward Uzumaki @ Dec 24 2012, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The characters couldn't be any more 1 dimensional if you flattened them with a steamroller and the story is equally paper thin.


What game were you playing? Did you happen to miss the entire game? You're spouting statements with no proof or support. Fix it, or your claims have no weight.
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#45 Sakura Blossoms

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

QUOTE (Edward Uzumaki @ Dec 24 2012, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Final Fantasy XIII is the worst Final Fantasy of all time, XIII-2 is an expansion on that crap and this is just further proof that Square has no idea what the hell they are doing anymore. I've said it before and I'll say it again this franchise needs to be put to rest or at least on a hiatus until someone CREATIVE comes along.

QUOTE (Gravenimage @ Dec 24 2012, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Last I checked this is a thread about XIII-3 not bashing and flaming the XIII franchise. Let's agree to disagree okay. sleep.gif

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Dec 24 2012, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What game were you playing? Did you happen to miss the entire game? You're spouting statements with no proof or support. Fix it, or your claims have no weight.


You've been back what two days, Ed. And are already starting drama with antagonistic/bashing posts. Really? Already? Again.
*sighs* Must we go through this drama every single time you make a 'return', Ed. It's Christmas Eve. I and the rest of the Mod Team are really not in the mood to have to start monitoring every single one of your threads/posts as has become habit/usual with each one of your returns. Just abide by the general rule of "if you have absolutely nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all."

#46 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 11:46 AM

So i have to buy and play the entire game to know if he's good or not?
I quoted a opinion of someome who play the entire game i played a part of it and my first impressions were bad.

This game is bad and my opinion ends here.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 December 2012 - 11:47 AM.

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#47 Greed-Sama

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 25 2012, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So i have to buy and play the entire game to know if he's good or not?
I quoted a opinion of someome who play the entire game i played a part of it and my first impressions were bad.

This game is bad and my opinion ends here.


No, but then your opinions are incomplete and can't state that the game is bad in its entirety. First impressions aren't law, and they never should be. I started playing the game a year ago and couldn't get into it. Then three weeks ago I tried again. It was a good decision.


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#48 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Dec 25 2012, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, but then your opinions are incomplete and can't state that the game is bad in its entirety. First impressions aren't law, and they never should be. I started playing the game a year ago and couldn't get into it. Then three weeks ago I tried again. It was a good decision.

Dude you're just trying to say to me that i should play the entire game to know if it's good or bad, first impressions are decisive for a game even there are a lot of studies that the first 10 minutes of gameplay is decisive.

Witcher 2, FFXII, Far cry 3, Max Payne 3; Skyrim is good but not excelent.
For me i just think that ffxiii does not worth enough.


Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 December 2012 - 03:39 PM.

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#49 Gravenimage

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:48 PM

Putting my two cents in the first game the only flaw I saw of XIII is it's" Linearity" this is the first FF game that is linear and many people (among those old school ff fans) didn't like that. Yes I admit it I didn't like it, you played one stage and you continued ahead without looking back or even going back to that previous stage. Not to mention no traveling around the world option (this is indeed a classical addition in RPG games without it, the game is simply incomplete).

-Another thing to add, there were no mini games. The only mini game available is the one of Hope using the giant mech and beat up the monsters game. And you only play it once because of its linearity.

-I saw the system to upgrade weapons a pain in the behind and annoying. Sorry but you have to waste more than 10 million gil to upgrade the best weapons of the game until reaching level 99, so after that you fuse it with another item to transform it into a new weapon. And then you go again wasting gil on materials to upgrade it to lv 99.

Now when it comes to the story and the characters I really like it. I love Lightning and Fang's characters. With Lightning learning her mistakes the hard way after regretting not believing Serah when she told her she was an l'Cie, fighting as an excuse to run away from her mistake, then making it worse with choosing to have revenge on the Sanctum and the Fal'Cie for Serah's crystalization. In the end she chooses to fight for what she believed in and not in doing it in revenge but fighting for a human being who has chosen her destiny and not some brand mark on her. Fang's character also touched me too. At the beginning of the game she was willing to do anything to save her friend Vanille from turning Cie'th but then as the game goes, finding out more people been branded l'Cie even if they were complete strangers to her she wanted to do the same thing for them, because she knows how terrible the fate of a l'Cie is.

It will leave it there but as for XIII-2 the only thing I didn't like was the story and the ending (the puzzles namely the hands of time were a pain, if you have plenty of time to waste solving them) but the rest was good.

I like:

-Monster recruitment to help you in battles.

-Feral link system with button press commands. The higher the synchronize percentage is the higher the percentage of taming new monsters becomes.

-Cinematic action with button press commands (this is indeed an element from Kingdom Hearts which I love it).

-NO LINEARITY (thank you square for fixing this bad error) you can travel to any time stage whenever you like and talk too many people whenever you like.

-NO upgrading weapons with materials (again thank you square for fixing this annoying feature from the first).

-Expanding crystarium for monsters too.

-Plenty of mini games to enjoy.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but I felt like giving my thoughts about both games because I want to show to other people that it is NOT as bad as they claimed it to be. I am looking forward for XIII-3 I just hope there are more characters to use besides Lightning.

EDIT: I will take this time to say MERRY CHRISTMAS to everyone from the forum to all my assigned friends and Kages and ANBU, Sakura Blossoms, Smitter, Derock, Nick, Yoko, Nate everyone hope you all enjoying the holidays with your friends and families. Hope you drink plenty of eggnog.

Edited by Gravenimage, 25 December 2012 - 03:54 PM.

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#50 Greed-Sama

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

QUOTE (Dαrkrєrsŧ @ Dec 25 2012, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dude you're just trying to say to me that i should play the entire game to know if it's good or bad, first impressions are decisive for a game even there are a lot of studies that the first 10 minutes of gameplay is decisive.


No, I commented on how you disregarded a story you've never played. I don't care about from a gameplay standpoint. I'm talking strictly story, which is something you've never experienced, which is why you really have no room to make statements like that.
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#51 Nefertieh

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:10 PM

I personally didn't think linearity was XIII's biggest problem; it was the fact that the the game constantly restricted you to two characters, making it very difficult to stagger an enemy or use the paradigm shift system in the way that it was intended. This wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that it lasts for the first twenty hours.

Story-wise, it was very confusing. I went into the game having read all the "major" spoilers that I could find, and I still couldn't understand what was going on. The characters themselves didn't seem to know what was going on either. Then there was the fact that every character takes turns with their flashbacks, but the flashbacks are not in chronological order. I understand that Square wanted some drama in the story, but at times it felt like the characters were trying too hard.

XIII-2 was much better though. smile.gif I loved Noel and Serah's chemistry. <3
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#52 Sakamaki Izayoi

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Dec 25 2012, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, I commented on how you disregarded a story you've never played. I don't care about from a gameplay standpoint. I'm talking strictly story, which is something you've never experienced, which is why you really have no room to make statements like that.

Did not i told you that the story is bad because i played all of it , because it was bad presented, and therefore makes the story bad.

Second Linearity is not a disvantage about the game look at Witcher 2 per example it's linear.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 25 December 2012 - 05:38 PM.

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#53 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE (Greed-Sama @ Dec 25 2012, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, but then your opinions are incomplete and can't state that the game is bad in its entirety. First impressions aren't law, and they never should be. I started playing the game a year ago and couldn't get into it. Then three weeks ago I tried again. It was a good decision.

I think this logic is kind of flawed. I made it all the way through Final Fantasy XIII, mainly because I'm a stubborn f***. But that game took FOREVER to get going. At LEAST twenty hours. S*** didn't get real until Snow showed up halfway through in what was easily the best cutscene of the game (I admit I kind of marked out a bit, it was so awesome; but even as freaking cool as that scene was, I can't say it was worth all that tedium). I ended up feeling it wasn't a total disaster, but I can absolutely forgive anyone who feels it's an awful game if they gave up. No game should go that long without being interesting in SOME way, whether it's story, gameplay or whatever.

Final Fantasy XIII's story was a slow burn, but the problem is the gameplay and world was not fun enough to keep you interested in the game while the story simmered. Plenty of games can get away with a slow story through fun to play game mechanics. Remove that and it doesn't work; there's nothing to keep them interested. This is XIII's problem, in a nutshell. If we want an example of the opposite, let's look at Final Fantasy III; if the job class system didn't kick as much ass as it did, there would be no reason to play it, because the story's kind of a joke (or nonexistent, if you prefer).

Everything interesting about the world was not brought to you attention through gameplay. Nope. To find out some of the interesting aspects of the world, you had to... read entries in a journal. Umm... okay, so, build up an interesting world, then relate all the cool stuff in text. Gotcha. Great idea guys.

Plus, once you get to the best part of the game, Chapter 11 - which was what the entire game should have been - you start to realize there's a decent chance it was not originally planned. Chapter 11 was the first point I realized there was no option to run from battles; I usually kill all enemies I meet anyways unless I'm doing a sidequest, so when I was doing a sidequest and got caught... whoops. Something just feels out of place about it; like a wonderful part of a different game warped into the last third of the game I was playing.

As you can tell, I have mixed feelings about the game. Overall, I felt it redeemed itself enough to not be terrible, but I'm of the opinion it's in the lower echelon of the storied series. So, basically, I also think it's not wrong for people to feel it's a bad game even if they finished it. You're not supposed to have to trudge through tedium to wait for something to get good. Plus, most of the time, if you feel a game sucks, you may as well just stop because most of them don't magically get better.

TL;DR The stories alright, but the game is dull enough that it's barely worth waiting for it to get good, so people are pretty justified in just hanging it up.

My conclusion? Final Fantasy XIII had a decent enough story that it could have made for a pretty interesting cartoon/anime/tv show, but as a game it was lacking in everything games require as a medium, including fun.

Edited by dl316bh, 28 December 2012 - 01:27 AM.

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#54 Greed-Sama

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:05 AM

QUOTE (dl316bh @ Dec 27 2012, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think this logic is kind of flawed. I made it all the way through Final Fantasy XIII, mainly because I'm a stubborn f***. But that game took FOREVER to get going. At LEAST twenty hours. S*** didn't get real until Snow showed up halfway through in what was easily the best cutscene of the game (I admit I kind of marked out a bit, it was so awesome; but even as freaking cool as that scene was, I can't say it was worth all that tedium). I ended up feeling it wasn't a total disaster, but I can absolutely forgive anyone who feels it's an awful game if they gave up. No game should go that long without being interesting in SOME way, whether it's story, gameplay or whatever.

Final Fantasy XIII's story was a slow burn, but the problem is the gameplay and world was not fun enough to keep you interested in the game while the story simmered. Plenty of games can get away with a slow story through fun to play game mechanics. Remove that and it doesn't work; there's nothing to keep them interested. This is XIII's problem, in a nutshell. If we want an example of the opposite, let's look at Final Fantasy III; if the job class system didn't kick as much ass as it did, there would be no reason to play it, because the story's kind of a joke (or nonexistent, if you prefer).

Everything interesting about the world was not brought to you attention through gameplay. Nope. To find out some of the interesting aspects of the world, you had to... read entries in a journal. Umm... okay, so, build up an interesting world, then relate all the cool stuff in text. Gotcha. Great idea guys.

Plus, once you get to the best part of the game, Chapter 11 - which was what the entire game should have been - you start to realize there's a decent chance it was not originally planned. Chapter 11 was the first point I realized there was no option to run from battles; I usually kill all enemies I meet anyways unless I'm doing a sidequest, so when I was doing a sidequest and got caught... whoops. Something just feels out of place about it; like a wonderful part of a different game warped into the last third of the game I was playing.

As you can tell, I have mixed feelings about the game. Overall, I felt it redeemed itself enough to not be terrible, but I'm of the opinion it's in the lower echelon of the storied series. So, basically, I also think it's not wrong for people to feel it's a bad game even if they finished it. You're not supposed to have to trudge through tedium to wait for something to get good. Plus, most of the time, if you feel a game sucks, you may as well just stop because most of them don't magically get better.

TL;DR The stories alright, but the game is dull enough that it's barely worth waiting for it to get good, so people are pretty justified in just hanging it up.

My conclusion? Final Fantasy XIII had a decent enough story that it could have made for a pretty interesting cartoon/anime/tv show, but as a game it was lacking in everything games require as a medium, including fun.


While I may disagree with you as I've never played another FF game, I can respect this.

My issue was not with him dismissing the game as bad or as presenting the story as bad, I was arguing from a straight story perspective. Nothing more.
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#55 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:38 AM

From a straight story perspective, it wasn't bad. Just presented in the wrong medium.
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#56 Phantom_999

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:48 AM

Is it just me or are they copying Majora's Mask in a sense? mellow.gif

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#57 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:57 AM

QUOTE (Phantom_999 @ Dec 28 2012, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it just me or are they copying Majora's Mask in a sense? mellow.gif

There are some similarities, but Majoras Mask had you repeating the stretch of time repeatedly to get the good results. This sounds like a more straightforward "you have such and such amount of time, go save the world mutha****a" situation.

Edited by dl316bh, 28 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

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#58 Phantom_999

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

True. Unless part of the game play requires Lightning to go back in time.

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#59 dl316bh

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:10 AM

I don't think they'll go there; didn't II revolve around time travel already?
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#60 Phantom_999

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:37 AM

That was time traveling to the future. I was talking about resenting events and altering them in the past. Like going back to the first day smile.gif

Edited by Phantom_999, 04 January 2013 - 03:38 AM.

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