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#31001 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 04 June 2023 - 09:24 PM

Its been a while since I checked-in last time. Hope you all are doing great.

SS popularity has always been a myth. Now that there are specific products dedicated to this pairing, we can finally debunk the myths of the pairing popularity.

Not surprisingly, they are very small. We have facts and figures, so, its easy to debate and make arguments.

Fundamentally, Kishi didn't need to switch direction of his story telling. Even if he did, or someone else ask him to do, he need to do it properly.

Folks who work with data would know that your source of truth shouldn't be based on quantitative data only (in this case popularity poll, or God forbid, YouTube watch count). Consumer studies always include qualitative as well as quantitative to make decision that will amplify the sales of the products. What happened with Naruto franchise is a good case study of how cognitive bias in decision making could easily brought down multi-billion dollar franchise. Not only that, but also future projects related to the key folks in the franchise (look at what happened to Samurai 8).

Today, Naruto franchise is beyond salvation, that much is clear. The producer need to accept the fact that ~95% of their sales are now gone, thanks to their bias to go down with NH/SS route. They'll sell products, sure, but it wont be at the magnitude they used to have.

What Kishi should've done: focus on making a good story, ignore the noises coming from the fandom. Especially the loud ones (looking at you NH/SS).

Even if that myth was true, no company would be happy with the excuse for low sales being, "they don't like Boruto, so they didn't buy a side manga made for them." Especially, since Boruto happened by making the end pairings nH/SS. 

 

Sakura lost her position due to fan-polling being used as a weapon against her, now 8 or so years later she is the third most popular character around the world. So she likely has both the data we can and cannot see behind her.

 

I think part of the reason they are focusing on Boruto right now beyond the years of low sales is; like how its happened in hopes of it keeping Naruto sales going when there at the time nothing to replace it. Now, most of the manga that did replace it are largely ending this year with nothing coming up seeming to be able to replace them. But instead of hoping it can hold up their figures while they wait for the new generation of shounen manga to make them money. They are finally looking at Boruto as its lost the manga that used to subsidize it. So now they pondering should they keep it around or just end it.

 

"What Kishi should've done: focus on making a good story, ignore the noises coming from the fandom. Especially the loud ones (looking at you NH/SS)." I'm pretty sure kishimoto made a comment like this after the ending...of course it backfired as the Japanese fans thought he was talking about them. I still think he was talking about his editors.

 

I recently watched the Alternate fanmade anime version of TL and when Sakura and Naruto got caught in the genjutsu, it refreshed my memories about the retcon flashback. Now it make totally sense that SP went the retcon route (originally I thought was to deceived the audience/readers/viewers for many years). It's all because of a fri**en Genjutsu that ruined our hero into being the number one SJ most scumbag protagonist in history. Even when nearly a decade has passed since chapter 700, it it really gets my blood boiling how SJ was brought to ruin and the aftermath of him being and old drunk and a terrible father. 

 

 Guys thanks for the info and saving me the pain to watch the film.  :thumbsup:

In theory, the genjutsu wasn't re-writing memories just showing Naruto and Hinata events that did happen. Showing Naruto that Hinata was always by his side, always loved him, and that they are bound by the red scarf of fate. Granted still a retcon by the anime staff

 

If you want an in-universe reason for why it happened. Ironically, Boruto last chapter gives a possible reason; an Otsutsuki likely used the shinjutsu 'Omnipotence' to rewrite the world so Naruto marries Hinata. So Boruto can be born. So femmy can possess his body. Of course, even with their minds re-written once Naruto and Hinata actually got together their lack of any chemistry made their marriage what it became.

 

I was that kid  :hehehe: when I was a teen, my catch phrase was basically "I hate my life/I hate you mom/dad/I wish I were dead." But my parents still didn't avoid me even though they probably worked more than Naruto  and one of them was periodically over seas for months at a time. both of them still made time for their kids, If they COULD be at an event/birthday/holiday they were and I wasn't angry at them for working--I was angry at everything. 

It was a pretty poor choice on their part to make Burrito that combative with Naruto but the whole thing is ultimately a clusterkitten of how not to write family dynamics. (Unless you're purposely writing families in crisis  :zaru: )

I think it would have been more effective for the entire k11 to plead their case to Naruto personally rather than using Sakura as a sacrificial lamb. At least then he's somewhat forced to explain himself and be countered with multiple points of view. but, NARUTO CANNOT BE QUESTIONED ABOUT SASUKE~ (Nor can Sakura.) He's the team 7 taboo. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure it was the Last, but its possible they also added filler to it. 

Sorry for reminding you of your childhood.

 

Anyways Naruto seemed to be Hokage for only a short amount of time. He could have honestly been Hokage less than a year as everything always treats him becoming hokage as a recent thing. 700 he just became Hokage, about to have his first 5 kage meeting, and Boruto was already acting out.

 

My impression has always been that Boruto was so unused to the idea that his father was not there 100% of the time, that he instantly acted out. Naruto understands why Boruto is acting out, but he busy trying to deal with an important job he always wanted but wasn't trained for, and with Boruto being so hostile it was easier to focus on that. Of course, that was fixed after the chunin exam, while Boruto is still a spoiled brat who refuses to bond with his father due to still not being at home 100%.

 

As for the Sasuke issue again. The group did that and got shot down by Naruto. She was the only one who had a chance he wouldn't just brush off due to his promise of a life time to her and his feelings for her. Him learning that even she had given up on Sasuke and was planning on killing him, was a major cause of his panic attack. Then he just double down afterwards.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 05 June 2023 - 10:29 PM.


#31002 milan kyuubi

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 08:29 AM

I love this! :sweat:

 

There are many many more videos such as this. Unfortunately the artist did not do any NaruSaku only other parings we shall not name. :lol:


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#31003 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 04:22 PM

You know if M Night Shyamalan saw the Last... even he would go... "No... just no."


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#31004 Serenity Namikaze

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 09:18 PM

I love this! :sweat:

 

There are many many more videos such as this. Unfortunately the artist did not do any NaruSaku only other parings we shall not name. :lol:

 

This is nice  :happy:

 

Unfortunately, this is the reality for years now, artists that makes NaruSaku are rare to find, compared to other pairings that shall not be named lol 

 

There are some on twitter like Shrimp chips (she also have an account with more adult arts), Bloom and Ranya are one of the few that I remember that are still doing NS arts  :wub:



#31005 totherpage95

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Posted 05 June 2023 - 11:04 PM

i checked the poll results again and i didn't even realize sakura went up a little in north america to 2nd place and she also got 1st place in south/central america, pretty amazing



#31006 Serenity Namikaze

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 12:20 AM

i checked the poll results again and i didn't even realize sakura went up a little in north america to 2nd place and she also got 1st place in south/central america, pretty amazing

 

Considering that in the past she was hated in the west, it is indeed very surprising to see her so high in the poll results, especially in the north america.

 

Not that it matter much since it won't change much for her in regards if her role in the manga or worst, in the anime but it is a very nice surprise to see this result nonetheless  :happy:



#31007 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 12:36 AM

 
Considering that in the past she was hated in the west, it is indeed very surprising to see her so high in the poll results, especially in the north america.
 
Not that it matter much since it won't change much for her in regards if her role in the manga or worst, in the anime but it is a very nice surprise to see this result nonetheless  :happy:


I feel like since the nH fans got what they wanted they no longer care since Hinata is with Naruto. Plus they also thought Sakura fans would all be gone by now.

#31008 Serenity Namikaze

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 12:49 AM

I feel like since the nH fans got what they wanted they no longer care since Hinata is with Naruto. Plus they also thought Sakura fans would all be gone by now.

 

That is true still, you would expect Hinata much higher than Sakura and yet, even in North America, she's only ranked 7, compared to Sakura who is second place.

 

Considering the fact that Hinata is supposed to be the favorite out of the 2 in North America, it's even more surprising.



#31009 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 01:05 AM

From what I could gather, most of the NH fandom were horny teens who just liked Hinata because of her "assets." Chances are, they either just don't care anymore, or most of them have grown up and realized in hindsight Sakura was far superior. I've noticed there has been a lot more Sakura defenders lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them re-read the series and realized they were played. 



#31010 LuckyChi7

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 07:14 AM

From what I could gather, most of the NH fandom were horny teens who just liked Hinata because of her "assets." Chances are, they either just don't care anymore, or most of them have grown up and realized in hindsight Sakura was far superior. I've noticed there has been a lot more Sakura defenders lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them re-read the series and realized they were played. 


Id definitely agree with that 100%

Its certainly for the better that many people are recognizing Sakuras character more and more now!

4e26f1bc8d604925166ad9bb2f431f5cc8eb6385

 

 

THAT'S WHAT HEROES DO, THEY SAVE PEOPLE!!


#31011 BlueStarSaber

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 12:09 PM

Though ideally not have them defend sasusaku

#31012 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 01:45 PM

I get sick when people defend Hinata saying "Naruti's hand is so warm."


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#31013 Phantom_999

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 06:24 PM

I'm assuming that like in Japan, Sakura is probably very popular in NA and the west in general. It's only that her haters tend to be VERY VERY vocal about it . I could be wrong but maybe that could be the case from the look of the popularity polls. Either that or Sakura isn't hated so much anymore because Naruto already married Hinata. Although that depends on how large the fan base still is. 

 


I get sick when people defend Hinata saying "Naruto's hand is so warm."
 
the context of it BEING that she had that thought RIGHT AFTER her cousin was killed DEFENDING her from being killed for trying to take a fatal blow for Naruto. Objectively looking at it can you see how selfish that is? You can't spare a thought for your own family doing a selfless act for you, and can only think how nice and warm and big your crush's hand is?  She also clearly hasn't learned her lesson from how counterproductive meat shielding for someone else is.

Edited by Phantom_999, 11 June 2023 - 02:23 PM.

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#31014 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 08:31 PM

Most American fans only really watched part 1 when it was on. So, they have the strongest connection to that. Similar to how much they obsess over the Z but forget about Dragonball.

 

So most fans saw Sakura as a mean girl that was hitting a poor orphan boy for no reason; instead of reprimanding an idiot for being inappropriate. So they wanted him to get with the nice shy girl that liked him, because they thought that would make everyone happy. They ignored her growth by part two and listened to the more negative views more fanatical nH fans had of her. However, by Boruto she has the best image of the old main cast because she properly raised Sarada as a single mother. Naruto became a neglectful father and a failure of a hokage. Hinata lacked a spine to rein in her family making their problems worse. Sasuke pretty much abandoned his wife and child for 12 years to wander around as a murderous hobo. Those pairings were supported because the fans thought they would all be happy and perfect. They were not, which soured them to Boruto before it even started (granted the actual manga being garbage certainly did not help.) Also, it started to spread the idea through the fanbase of, "you know, maybe Sakura should have married Naruto instead of Hinata, at least she wouldn't put up with it, and done something."

 

Sakura always had appeal as an insecure girl trying to figure out her place in the world and what she was going to do. This however was overshadowed by people that saw her as a friend-zoning slut that hit Naruto and was obsessed over Sasuke like an annoying fangirl. Kishimoto was too slow and indecisive in getting her away from that image.

 

The side manga, the poll result, and anything happening in the Boruto anime is probably why she is having more defenders recently.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 06 June 2023 - 08:34 PM.


#31015 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 10:04 PM

 

I'm assuming that like in Japan, Sakura is probably very popular in NA and the west in general. It's only that her haters tend to be VERY VERY vocal about it . I could be wrong but maybe that could be the case from the look of the popularity polls. Either that or Sakura isn't hated so much anymore because Naruto already married Hinata. Although that depends on how large the fan base still is. 

 

 
 
the context of it BEING that she had that thought RIGHT AFTER her cousin was killed DEFENDING her from being killed for trying to take a fatal blow for Naruto. Objectively looking at it can you see how selfish that is. You can't spare a thought for your own family doing a selfless act for you and can only think how nice and warm and big your crush's hand is? Clearly she also hasn't learned her lesson from how counterproductive that is.

 

That made me Outright hate Hinata


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#31016 VanitasDS76491

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 10:51 PM

Id definitely agree with that 100%

Its certainly for the better that many people are recognizing Sakuras character more and more now!

it's almost like character growth is a thing. 

 

I get sick when people defend Hinata saying "Naruti's hand is so warm."

yah we see where her priorities are after her cousin died.

i'd if  this was spiderverse and neji dying was breaking canon  



#31017 NaruSaku fan in Kentucky

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 10:55 PM

it's almost like character growth is a thing. 

 

yah we see where her priorities are after her cousin died.

i'd if  this was spiderverse and neji dying was breaking canon  

If Supergirl died.. Superman would cry.


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#31018 TheFirstEvil100

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Posted 06 June 2023 - 11:36 PM

 

That is true still, you would expect Hinata much higher than Sakura and yet, even in North America, she's only ranked 7, compared to Sakura who is second place.

 

Considering the fact that Hinata is supposed to be the favorite out of the 2 in North America, it's even more surprising.

True, maybe people are waking up and seeing Hinata isn't well written.

 

From what I could gather, most of the NH fandom were horny teens who just liked Hinata because of her "assets." Chances are, they either just don't care anymore, or most of them have grown up and realized in hindsight Sakura was far superior. I've noticed there has been a lot more Sakura defenders lately, so I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them re-read the series and realized they were played. 

I can see that being the biggest problem in why Naruto has become the hot mess it is now, and I still think you have ones that are still obsessed with Hinata. Not many, mind you, but the few who are still around still talk about Hinata like she is still the best thing to be created. But I feel that is also dying thanks to what is happening and more stories and shows coming out showing how a female character should be done.

 

I mean, look at Ashley from Resident Evil, for in the OG she was hated, but in the remake, many love her and say she is better than the OG version.



#31019 Bail o' Lies

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 01:27 AM

I can see that being the biggest problem in why Naruto has become the hot mess it is now, and I still think you have ones that are still obsessed with Hinata. Not many, mind you, but the few who are still around still talk about Hinata like she is still the best thing to be created. But I feel that is also dying thanks to what is happening and more stories and shows coming out showing how a female character should be done.

 

I mean, look at Ashley from Resident Evil, for in the OG she was hated, but in the remake, many love her and say she is better than the OG version.

nH's problem now a days is when it was brought up to perform as they promised they would, they fell flat, and have continued to do so. It is why there is barely any nH products since the ending. That lack of support despite being the end pairing also makes the fans they have less inclined to support products not targeted to them. Causing a feedback loop.

 

Ashley was an escort character. Those characters are hated default because their Ai normally put them in danger of dying and them dying means game over.



#31020 Dalton.T.R

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 02:37 AM

Ashly wasn't that bad imo. Unless you intentionally aimed for her, it was next to impossible to accidently kill her.







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