96 replies to this topic

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Probably for the same reason that Kakashi, Danzo, and Ao are unable to deactivate their respective doujutsu. It's an unnatural ability, a KG, that was artificially implanted into them that they learned to control to some degree but are unable to fully master it like the original possessor of the KG can. When they had theirs implanted it was probably already active and due to some unforeseen stipulation they cannot turn it off; which is the reasoning behind them keeping it concealed so that they are not unnecessarily expending chakra all of the time. This concept could be applicable to Nagato and his inability to use EMS. When Madara implanted his eyes into Nagato they were already in the Rinnegan state and so Nagato would be unable to revert them back to EMS. It's the same for Tobi as well considering how he still has one remaining Sharingan eye alongside the Rinnegan that he implanted into himself.

But Kakashi can swap between Normal sharingan and Mangekyou proving that it's an evolution, Nagato could not swap between the rinnegan and fuumetsu mangekyou sharingan then it proves that are two different doujutsus and a senju can also unlock the rinnengan if he inject Uchiha's DNA on himself.

The Senju inherited the Sage's "body". Presumably that relates to his immeasurable amount of chakra and bodily vitality. It was the Uchiha who inherited the Sage's "eyes". For a Senju to acquire the Rinnegan they would first need to implant a Sharingan, not just DNA, into themselves but once they did that there's a good chance that they would unlock it. Although I suppose there's also the issue of whether a Sharingan user needs to have already unlocked MS/EMS before they can attain the Rinnegan or not.

But he could use the Rinnegan perfectly, it was like a doujutsu made exclusively for Senju people because the uchiha's doesnt have the body to use that, and the Senju's doesnt have the willpower to unlock the rinnegan, it looks more like a puzzle than ever.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 May 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[Inferno180]

NaruHina101, this theroy is busted beyond belief, there is no importance between the Byakugan and the Sage:

Lets start with the fact that the eye of the moon plan does not have any need for it, Obito, Madara, etc makes no mention of it once. If they did, it would be oh so easy to kidnap any Hyuga, even Hinata would have been captured by now.

Second, you remember back in the chunin exams arc the statement of the Sharigan being derivied from the Byakugan? That was the theory of then, but the sage story introduction busted this when it was mentioned that the Uchiha and Senju were related to the first shinobi ever. If anything the Byakugan is the dereived one but its not that simple. This was entirely based on the sage and genetics.

Third, look at the sage, he had the rinnegan and his older son had the prototype sub rinnegan-sharigan. But the sage also taught Ninjutsu to other people, many clans started this way without being blood relatives to the sage, he taught ninjutsu to both his sons and other people. All bloodline abilities are also genetic, all kekki genki obey real world genetic law, dominant and recessive traits. This means that the Byakugan either started on its own seperate from the sage or it could be genetically derived from the older son but there is a difference, genetics can change over very long times, sometimes they can become so distant they can become their own thing and loose all connections to their orginal anestry. This means that the genetics of the proto Uchiha/Hyuga would have been changed over the few centuries between the sage and the village era that the Byakugan just no longer has any connection to the sage, senju, uchina, or ten tails. If it did they would be effected and somehow involved with the current eye of the moon plan now wouldn't they? The uzumaki clan however is related to the senju because they have closer blood relations. The uzumaki lost wood style in this bloodline spreading but gained full stamina abilities. If the huygya and Uchiha are related though, it would be so incredibly distant that they have nothing in common anymore aside from their occular techiques, the difference being that the Hyuga have no connection to the sage anymore.

Fourth, the cloud village was always warmongering. They wanted to be the strongest and the best village and would do anything to make it happen. They had the largest army, 2 jinchurki, almost had Kurama twice (gold and silver brothers tried to get him, second time was kidnapping Kushina), they got the 5 artifacts from the sage of the six paths, tried to get the Byaukgan several times, tried to get Kushina to also being an uzumaki, they were always pulling this crap because they wanted to be stronger than the rest and escpially the leaf.

Fifth, Hinata's story or rather the story with the Hyuga is just minimal and more or less simple and done, we know the story, the family division, the conflict from it, etc. Kishi could have expanded it but he chose not too. Hinata is not part of the central events and connection to the sage is beyond her. Naruto and Sasuke obviously fit in, Hashirama and Madara have a direct corralation with this storyline too. As stupid as it is to say, even Sakura has a closer connection here to the sage storyline simply because she is Tsunade's apprentence and Tsuande is the granddaughter of Harshirama. Even being unrelated by blood Sakura still has a closer connection to the conflicts the others mentioned are dealing with, simply by affiliation where the conflict was built off of (Hashirama conflict - Tsunade's conflict, can lead to conflict involvement with Sakura).

Sorry not trying to burst your bubble but this is just not going to happen, the theory is completely off for the fact there is nothing related between the eye of the moon plan and the byakugan.

[Atheck]

But Kakashi cant deactivate his sharingan because he can swap between Normal sharingan and Mangekyou if it was an evolution,

The difference with Kakashi being capable of altering the status of his Sharingan from Mangekyou to the standard 3 tomoe is probably related to the fact that he himself had unlocked it after having already had the Sharingan implanted. It was his grief that allowed it to evolve and it was through his training during the course of the timeskip that he learned to control it. Although Danzo is a peculiarity since he's freely able to alternate between the Mangekyou and 3 tomoe despite having acquired it after the Mangekyou had already been unlocked. My assumption is that the process of deactivating a doujutsu to a regular state is separate or possibly exclusive to the volition of the original user, the one who is most familiar with utilizing the eyes. Those who lack the genetic capability to fully master the KG and the reality of it having not been theirs originally seems to somehow contribute to this.

Then you might ask why could Kakashi or Danzo not train their eyes to be able to revert back to their original state? Well that's technically unknown at the moment but considering that they feel it necessary to conceal their doujutsu so that it does not expend chakra instead of simply reverting it back to its basic state, I believe it's a fair assumption that they're incapable of doing so for whatever reason.

Nagato could swap between the rinnegan and fuumetsu mangekyou sharingan

If this were possible for him then would he not have done it whilst battling Naruto or Jiraiya? What about Tobi? There have been several close instances where being able to use Susanoo would have come in handy and he does already possess one Mangekyou eye. Why not alternate between the two if it were possible?

The Rinnegan, unlike previous stages of the Sharingan evolutionary cycle, appears to be a completely different doujutsu altogether. Hence the different abilities and the relatively eccentric means that are necessitated for acquiring it. These conditions are reminiscent of the oddity of Kakashi being apparently unable to revert his Sharingan back to a regular eye.

then it proves that are two different doujutsus and a senju can also unlock the rinnengan if he inject Uchiha's DNA chakra on himself.
But he could use the Rinnegan perfectly, it was like a doujutsu made exclusively for Senju people because the uchiha's doesnt have the body to use that, and the Senju's doesnt have the willpower to unlock the rinnegan, it looks more like a puzzle than ever.

It was clearly stated that the Senju Clan, descendants of the Younger Son, had inherited the sage's body whilst the Uchiha, descendants of the Older Son, had been given his eyes, in other words, doujutsu. If it were possible for the Senju to acquire the Rinnegan without first implanting an Uchiha's Sharingan then why would the two details pertaining to inheritance of the Sage's characteristics be specifically differentiated from the other as if to imply some element of exclusivity? Would we not have heard of a Senju acquiring the Rinnegan at some point during the recounting of the history between the two clans? They had been war at each other for a considerable amount of time over the validity of their respective ideological approaches and who should acquire the appellation of the sage's successor. It's blatantly obvious that the two clans received different inheritances.

The Senju are capable of unlocking the Rinnegan but they would first need to obtain the Sot6Ps' eyes
which would technically be the Sharingan after the devolution process.

Edited by Atheck, 03 May 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

The difference with Kakashi being capable of altering the status of his Sharingan from Mangekyou to the standard 3 tomoe is probably related to the fact that he himself had unlocked it after having already had the Sharingan implanted. It was his grief that allowed it to evolve and it was through his training during the course of the timeskip that he learned to control it. Although Danzo is a peculiarity since he's freely able to alternate between the Mangekyou and 3 tomoe despite having acquired it after the Mangekyou had already been unlocked. My assumption is that the process of deactivating a doujutsu to a regular state is separate or possibly exclusive to the volition of the original user, the one who is most familiar with utilizing the eyes. Those who lack the genetic capability to fully master the KG and the reality of it having not been theirs originally seems to somehow contribute to this.

Non-uchihas cant unlock it, it was Obito but still he could change between the normal sharingan to the mangekyou this is an evolution.
The rinnegan and sharingan are different doujutsu.

Then you might ask why could Kakashi or Danzo not train their eyes to be able to revert back to their original state? Well that's technically unknown at the moment but considering that they feel it necessary to conceal their doujutsu so that it does not expend chakra instead of simply reverting it back to its basic state, I believe it's a fair assumption that they're incapable of doing so for whatever reason.

Because their eyes were activated on sharingan, Nagato eye's only had the rinnengan activated it needed Madara to change it back to the sharingan, they are two different doujutsus.
even Obito cant change the rinnegan to the sharingan form despite having both Uchiha's and Senju's DNA.

[Atheck]

Non-uchihas cant unlock it, it was Obito but still he could change between the normal sharingan to the mangekyou this is an evolution.

This is incorrect. It was clearly displayed that both Obito and Kakashi had simultaneously caused their respective eyes to transform from the grief of losing Rin, not that Obito's grief alone brought about the evolution. Unless you believe there is some metaphysical connection between their eyes, despite them being in two separate individuals. The sheer fact that Kakashi has displayed the ability to change his Sharingan from 3 tomoe to Mangekyo whilst Tobi does not have his activated strongly suggests that the eyes have independently developed and can be utilized or manipulated without the other one being affected in any way.

Because their eyes were activated on sharingan, Nagato eye's only had the rinnengan activated it needed Madara to change it back to the sharingan, they are two different doujutsus.
even Obito cant change the rinnegan to the sharingan form despite having both Uchiha's and Senju's DNA.

I'm sorry, what? Are you agreeing with me now? This is precisely what I have been endeavouring to convince to you is that an artificially implanted doujutsu is incapable of being deactivated.

Edited by Atheck, 03 May 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Dkey]

Well story wise the only reason Nagato couldn't revert back to sharingan was so that it would be revealed later the truth about it when we also found out who obito was.


But it's also possible that Nagato never even suspected it could revert back to the sharingan. All of his friends and master told him that those eyes were of their own making special and no one suggested they be linked to the sharingan. But if Obito knows the truth then he could use his rinnegan eye as second sharingan and have access to the other doujutsu.

Anyway the way things are going Madara and Obito are persons of habits. Even thou they have the rinnegan they use sharingan abilities. Maybe it's also a form of making them different from one another.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

This is incorrect. It was clearly displayed that both Obito and Kakashi had simultaneously caused their respective eyes to transform from the grief of losing Rin, not that Obito's grief alone brought about the evolution. Unless you believe there is some metaphysical connection between their eyes, despite them being in two separate individuals. The sheer fact that Kakashi has displayed the ability to change his Sharingan from 3 tomoe to Mangekyo whilst Tobi does not have his activated strongly suggests that the eyes have independently developed and can be utilized or manipulated without the other one being affected in any way.




I'm sorry, what? Are you agreeing with me now? This is precisely what I have been endeavouring to convince to you is that an artificially implanted doujutsu is incapable of being deactivated.

No, i'm saying is that rinnegan and sharingan are different doujutsus and i said that based on this even a Senju can unlokc the rinnegan if with only the Uchiha's DNA, and it proved that Rinnegan is not an evolution of Sharingan it's just an another doujutsu that both Uchiha's and Senju can unlock it infusing their DNA on each other to complete the puzzle and become like the sage.

Well story wise the only reason Nagato couldn't revert back to sharingan was so that it would be revealed later the truth about it when we also found out who obito was.


But it's also possible that Nagato never even suspected it could revert back to the sharingan. All of his friends and master told him that those eyes were of their own making special and no one suggested they be linked to the sharingan. But if Obito knows the truth then he could use his rinnegan eye as second sharingan and have access to the other doujutsu.

Anyway the way things are going Madara and Obito are persons of habits. Even thou they have the rinnegan they use sharingan abilities. Maybe it's also a form of making them different from one another.

Kakashi also didnt suspected he had the mangekyou and only knew about it on the begining of part 2 and it was never explained how he managed to know about this.

obito also borrowed the rinnegan from Nagato and he knew it was from Madara but could not revert it back to the fuumetsu mangekyou sharingan and use Susano'o.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 May 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Dkey]

No, i'm saying is that rinnegan and sharingan are different doujutsus and i said that based on this even a Senju can unlokc the rinnegan if with only the Uchiha's DNA, and it proved that Rinnegan is not an evolution of Sharingan it's just an another doujutsu that both Uchiha's and Senju can unlock it infusing their DNA on each other to complete the puzzle and become like the sage.


Kakashi also didnt suspected he had the mangekyou and only knew about it on the begining of part 2 and it was never explained how he managed to know about this.

obito also borrowed the rinnegan from Nagato and he knew it was from Madara but could not revert it back to the fuumetsu mangekyou sharingan and use Susano'o.

Obito only used his eye even thou he had a transplanted one in his left socket. He even handicapped himself with the mask. It isnt explained why he chooses this but apart from biju control he didnt use his rinnegan once. As for Madara he is arrogant and I think he is saving his rinnegan powers for Hashirama.

But still i think its a matter of identity between the 3 of them.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Obito only used his eye even thou he had a transplanted one in his left socket. He even handicapped himself with the mask. It isnt explained why he chooses this but apart from biju control he didnt use his rinnegan once. As for Madara he is arrogant and I think he is saving his rinnegan powers for Hashirama.

But still i think its a matter of identity between the 3 of them.

He gives shared vision to his edo-tensei jinchuurikis, also with a fuumetsu he could give susano'o to the bijuu's to make them more stronger and so on...

Also with his rinnegan eh said he could not get out info from Yamato because he would had to use the rinnegan and would end up killing Yamato pretty much resembles one of Nagato's techniques os he was able to use them but did not chose to, if he could use the fuumetsu he would be able to take out info from Yamato without having to kill him.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 May 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Gravenimage]

Well I think everything has been said that this theory is 100% not true. If it's okay can this thread be close now?

[Dkey]

He gives shared vision to his edo-tensei jinchuurikis, also with a fuumetsu he could give susano'o to the bijuu's to make them more stronger and so on...

Also with his rinnegan eh said he could not get out info from Yamato because he would had to use the rinnegan and would end up killing Yamato pretty much resembles one of Nagato's techniques os he was able to use them but did not chose to, if he could use the fuumetsu he would be able to take out info from Yamato without having to kill him.

Seeing that sharingan evolves by creating some connections directly in the brain than maybe if transplanted it will remain in it's current state.

Now for Kakashi' mangekyou the sharingan may have created those connections in the brain that helps it shift from normal Sharingan to Mangekyou.

So what I'm saying is that if the eye was transplanted as a normal eye it couldn't go sharingan even thou it's original user could. But if the evolution happens after the transplant than you can shift.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Seeing that sharingan evolves by creating some connections directly in the brain than maybe if transplanted it will remain in it's current state.

Now for Kakashi' mangekyou the sharingan may have created those connections in the brain that helps it shift from normal Sharingan to Mangekyou.

So what I'm saying is that if the eye was transplanted as a normal eye it couldn't go sharingan even thou it's original user could. But if the evolution happens after the transplant than you can shift.

What the..?
Ofc the eye would make connections on the brain otherwise he would be blind.
Kakashi could shift between Sharingan and Mangekyou sharingan, even Itachi's crow was able to swap between the normal sharingan to the mangekyou(Shisui's eye), but Obito and neither Nagato could shift between Rinnegan to Sharingan.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 03 May 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Dkey]

What the..?
Ofc the eye would make connections on the brain otherwise he would be blind.
Kakashi could shift between Sharingan and Mangekyou sharingan, even Itachi's crow was able to swap between the normal sharingan to the mangekyou(Shisui's eye), but Obito and neither Nagato could shift between Rinnegan to Sharingan.

You misunderstood me. I think the command to shift from one phase to another is created in the brain, while the connections that allow the eye to be used by the brain and the individual for it's abilities can be made, the one that allows you to turn it off/on or to shift from sharingan to mangekyou probably is more depandable on the brain than the eye.

At the same time Madara can use both Rinnegan and Sharigan abilities, but he is the only one who did it the hard way while Nagato and Obito have them transplanted.

[Atheck]

Well story wise the only reason Nagato couldn't revert back to sharingan was so that it would be revealed later the truth about it when we also found out who obito was.

That's a valid reason to explain the reasoning for not reverting it for Kishi as a writer but not as an in-universe explanation.

But it's also possible that Nagato never even suspected it could revert back to the sharingan. All of his friends and master told him that those eyes were of their own making special and no one suggested they be linked to the sharingan. But if Obito knows the truth then he could use his rinnegan eye as second sharingan and have access to the other doujutsu.

If Tobi could access the Sharingan then he would he not have done that instead of risking injury like when Kakashi had discovered the specifics of his teleportation? Instead of endangering himself by utilizing a jutsu which Kakashi is capable of counteracting why not use Susanoo or the other MS technique that that eye should possess?

Anyway the way things are going Madara and Obito are persons of habits. Even thou they have the rinnegan they use sharingan abilities. Maybe it's also a form of making them different from one another.

From we have been provided so far it would appear that for whatever reason Tobi and Nagato are incapable of deactivating the doujutsu that they were implanted with. It can probably be attributed to the same cause for Kakashi and Danzo's inability to revert their Sharingan eyes back to base form. Anything else is mere speculation that doesn't really assist in explaining these other circumstances concerning Kakashi, Danzo, and Ao who also possess implanted eyes.

No, i'm saying is that rinnegan and sharingan are different doujutsus

They have different appearances and different abilities but biologically the Rinnegan is related to the Sharingan. It is the final evolutionary step of the doujutsu. What analogy can I use here... It would be like a Poliwhirl evolving into Politoed. Though it does appear and it may have different mannerisms with the means to acquiring it being uniquely separated from its previous forms it's still biologically related to those creatures.

and i said that based on this even a Senju can unlokc the rinnegan if with only the Uchiha's DNA,

I believe I already addressed this in my previous post. The two clans received different inheritances, the Uchiha being provided with the sage's eyes. The Senju were not provided with those eyes neither do they possess the biological proclivity to develop the Rinnegan without them. Think of it as you would a puzzle. The Senju are one half of it whilst the Uchiha's eyes are the second. To complete the puzzle (Rinnegan) you need the other's doujutsu, their inheritance which is the second half. Otherwise you are unable to complete it. DNA alone is insufficient because it does not provide the eyes which the Senju require if they want to obtain Rinnegan.

and it proved that Rinnegan is not an evolution of Sharingan

Really? Then how do you explain Madara's EMS evolving into Rinnegan when he became decrepit? Or the various times that he transformed his eyes from Rinnegan to EMS and vice verse? See the pokemon analogy that I utilized above to answer this.

it's just an another doujutsu that both Uchiha's and Senju can unlock it infusing their DNA on each other to complete the puzzle and become like the sage.

In terms of abilities and appearance it is separate but biologically they share considerable familiarities since it is their eyes mixed with Senju DNA that enables the transformation in the first place.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

They have different appearances and different abilities but biologically the Rinnegan is related to the Sharingan. It is the final evolutionary step of the doujutsu. What analogy can I use here... It would be like a Poliwhirl evolving into Politoed. Though it does appear and it may have different mannerisms with the means to acquiring it being uniquely separated from its previous forms it's still biologically related to those creatures.

No, even with "Poliwhirl evolving into Politoed", still Politoed retained some abilities from Poliwhirl, Mangekyou is an evolution of the normal sharingan and stll retain the jutsus of a normal sharingan, but the rinnegan has any abilities that resemble a sharingan in any way, you can share your powers into other bodie, can revive people, doesnt even use genjutsu which is the whole basis of a sharingan i dont see the rinnegan as an evolution, people may see it because an Uchiha can unlock it with Senju DNA, but still would be stupid to say that both of them has half of the Sage's power if only an uchiha can unlock the rinnegan, i believe that a Senju can also unlock a rinnegan, since even Obito with Senju DNA could not revert rinnegan to the MS and use Madara's jutsus.
I dont believe that the rinnegan is an evolution it simply doesnt resemble a sharingan, it's a totally different doujutsu, it's like Squirtle evolving into a Charizard.

Edited by Dαrkrєrsŧ, 05 May 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[Atheck]

No, even with "Poliwhirl evolving into Politoed", still Politoed retained some abilities from Poliwhirl,

Yes, and the Rinnegan shared similar properties to that of the Sharingan such as the capacity to master any and all jutsu excluding KG as well as enhanced perceptual ability (albeit its applications are somewhat different). In fact that was the entire behind the doujutsu in first place. To master any and all ninjutsu.

Mangekyou is an evolution of the normal sharingan and stll retain the jutsus of a normal sharingan, but the rinnegan has any abilities that resemble a sharingan in any way, you can share your powers into other bodie, can revive people, doesnt even use genjutsu which is the whole basis of a sharingan i dont see the rinnegan as an evolution,

That's completely irrelevant. It's explicitly shown that the Rinnegan is the final evolutionary step of Sharingan. Madara's Sharingan altered into the Rinnegan after years of having Senju DNA in his body. They didn't just magically disappear with a new set capable of only utilizing the Rinnegan appearing. He alternates between one state of the doujutsu just like Itachi, Sasuke, and anyone else with MS did.

people may see it because an Uchiha can unlock it with Senju DNA, but still would be stupid to say that both of them has half of the Sage's power if only an uchiha can unlock the rinnegan,

Discuss the matter with Kishimoto then because he was the one who made a clear distinction within the manga that the two clans received exclusive inheritances. I fail to see why I must continue to reiterate this point when it's so blatantly obvious.

i believe that a Senju can also unlock a rinnegan, since even Obito with Senju DNA could not revert rinnegan to the MS and use Madara's jutsus.

How does Tobi's inability to change his Rinnegan into EMS validate your claim? If anything that fact only supports the notion that you have to have either already unlocked EMS before moving to the final step of the doujutsu cycle or it requires decades before the Senju DNA finally takes effect with altering the Sharingan. By the way, you need to provide some evidence that validates your claim of the Senju's "capability" to unlock Rinnegan regardless of whether they possess the Sharingan or not. A manga scan would suffice.

I dont believe that the rinnegan is an evolution it simply doesnt resemble a sharingan, it's a totally different doujutsu, it's like Squirtle evolving into a Charizard.

Except it's been clearly stated and verified in the manga itself that the Uchiha's KG originated from the Sage's eyes. The fact that the Uchiha are even capable of transforming their eyes into the Rinnegan proves this biological connection which invalidates your analogy because Squirtle and Charizard have no relation to each other whatsoever.

[Sakamaki Izayoi]

Yes, and the Rinnegan shared similar properties to that of the Sharingan such as the capacity to master any and all jutsu excluding KG as well as enhanced perceptual ability (albeit its applications are somewhat different). In fact that was the entire behind the doujutsu in first place. To master any and all ninjutsu.



That's completely irrelevant. It's explicitly shown that the Rinnegan is the final evolutionary step of Sharingan. Madara's Sharingan altered into the Rinnegan after years of having Senju DNA in his body. They didn't just magically disappear with a new set capable of only utilizing the Rinnegan appearing. He alternates between one state of the doujutsu just like Itachi, Sasuke, and anyone else with MS did.



Discuss the matter with Kishimoto then because he was the one who made a clear distinction within the manga that the two clans received exclusive inheritances. I fail to see why I must continue to reiterate this point when it's so blatantly obvious.



How does Tobi's inability to change his Rinnegan into EMS validate your claim? If anything that fact only supports the notion that you have to have either already unlocked EMS before moving to the final step of the doujutsu cycle or it requires decades before the Senju DNA finally takes effect with altering the Sharingan. By the way, you need to provide some evidence that validates your claim of the Senju's "capability" to unlock Rinnegan regardless of whether they possess the Sharingan or not. A manga scan would suffice.



Except it's been clearly stated and verified in the manga itself that the Uchiha's KG originated from the Sage's eyes. The fact that the Uchiha are even capable of transforming their eyes into the Rinnegan proves this biological connection which invalidates your analogy because Squirtle and Charizard have no relation to each other whatsoever.

Actually you're right, i was wrong just verified this

Madara was able to use Susano'o with the rinnegan when neither Obito or Nagato was capable of using it, i'll just accept as crap writing and leave as it is.