63 replies to this topic

[Ulgamoth]

Post ur thoughts about whatever, like his MS or somting...

[Kyuudaime]

Ok....
This is far-fetched, but I think he obtained it by mentally accusing his self and thinking it was his fault his best friend died, it could have had such a strong reaction that he truely did think that and his sharingan reacted to it, and he obtained mangekyou.

Kinda hard to explain, but that's my main theory.

[Nasir]

Ok....
This is far-fetched, but I think he obtained it by mentally accusing his self and thinking it was his fault his best friend died, it could have had such a strong reaction that he truely did think that and his sharingan reacted to it, and he obtained mangekyou.

Kinda hard to explain, but that's my main theory.

If you think thats far-fetched, then listen to mine.

I think that Kakashi has always had Mangekyo Sharingan. Yes you heard me right. Now before you guys go saying that impossible, let me support my theory.

Now lets begin shall we? We all know as Itachi said, in order to gain a Mangekyo, you need to kill your best friend. This is what confuses me. How the hell does your sharingan able to determine whether or not a person is your best friend? Now, my theory is this:

In order to gain Mangekyo, you do not need to kill your best friend, but go through severe emotional trauma. (For example watching someone close to you die.)

This would explain how Kakashi got the Mangekyo without killing his best friend. ( There is a loophole in this, we do not yet know how Rin died, but assuming from Kakashi's choice to leave Rin behind in Kakashi gaiden, i think that Kakashi never really cared for Rin as much as he did for Obito. Oh hush Yaoi fangirls.....) This would also explain why Kakashi had mangekyo sharingan from the start, he witnessed Obito's death which brought about a change in him.

Same with Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill his best friend, lets say it still is Naruto. He killed his brother, who was really close to him despite Sasuke's murderous intent. He after this gained his very own mangekyo sharingan.

Now as for more evidence to support my theory, remember when Itachi first came to capture Naruto and had a showdown with Asuma, Kakashi, Gai, and others? (We now know that this visit was not to capture Naruto, but to let Danzo know of his presence.) Kakashi stated that Itachi was slowly losing his eyesight due to his mangekyo sharingan, to which Itachi replied yes. Now how would Kakashi know of this fact without having the MS himself and noticing the degredation of his own eyesight. Unless Kakashi had a friendly chat over a bowl of ramen with Itachi, I don't think there was any other way to know since there at the time there was only one other person who had the Mangekyo Sharingan, Madara.

Make any sense?

[Kyuudaime]

If you think thats far-fetched, then listen to mine.

I think that Kakashi has always had Mangekyo Sharingan. Yes you heard me right. Now before you guys go saying that impossible, let me support my theory.

Now lets begin shall we? We all know as Itachi said, in order to gain a Mangekyo, you need to kill your best friend. This is what confuses me. How the hell does your sharingan able to determine whether or not a person is your best friend? Now, my theory is this:

In order to gain Mangekyo, you do not need to kill your best friend, but go through severe emotional trauma. (For example watching someone close to you die.)

This would explain how Kakashi got the Mangekyo without killing his best friend. ( There is a loophole in this, we do not yet know how Rin died, but assuming from Kakashi's choice to leave Rin behind in Kakashi gaiden, i think that Kakashi never really cared for Rin as much as he did for Obito. Oh hush Yaoi fangirls.....) This would also explain why Kakashi had mangekyo sharingan from the start, he witnessed Obito's death which brought about a change in him.

Same with Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill his best friend, lets say it still is Naruto. He killed his brother, who was really close to him despite Sasuke's murderous intent. He after this gained his very own mangekyo sharingan.

Now as for more evidence to support my theory, remember when Itachi first came to capture Naruto and had a showdown with Asuma, Kakashi, Gai, and others? (We now know that this visit was not to capture Naruto, but to let Danzo know of his presence.) Kakashi stated that Itachi was slowly losing his eyesight due to his mangekyo sharingan, to which Itachi replied yes. Now how would Kakashi know of this fact without having the MS himself and noticing the degredation of his own eyesight. Unless Kakashi had a friendly chat over a bowl of ramen with Itachi, I don't think there was any other way to know since there at the time there was only one other person who had the Mangekyo Sharingan, Madara.

Make any sense?

The first part with the emotional trauma was actually my second theory, I would find it curious as to why Kakashi hasn't used the mangekyou before if he had it, then again I'm curious as to why he uses the same like 10 jutsu's when he's copied over a 1000.
*shrugs*

[Nasir]

The first part with the emotional trauma was actually my second theory, I would find it curious as to why Kakashi hasn't used the mangekyou before if he had it, then again I'm curious as to why he uses the same like 10 jutsu's when he's copied over a 1000.
*shrugs*

Remember what happened when he did use it? He was bedridden for about what? weeks?
I guess he didn't want to use it first eyesight degradation, second exhaustion.

[Kyuudaime]

Remember what happened when he did use it? He was bedridden for about what? weeks?
I guess he didn't want to use it first eyesight degradation, second exhaustion.

I'm wondering though if he did have it according to your theory, if he has used it, we don't know, and why would he only use it again Akatsuki? I mean he could have revealed it in the fight with Orochimaru during the exams.....

[Nasir]

Probably didn't train enough with it to perfectly utilize it at that time, lets see, time skip was two years, enough time to train Mangekyo, now you can ask why he waited ALL that time to train it...all i can say is i don't know...

[Kyuudaime]

If your right though, it's quite illogical, to not try to utilize a power that will consume your eye even if you don't use it.
Well, maybe we'll get our answer someday.

[Nasir]

Uh, I thought it was stated that if you use Mangekyo then your eyesight will lower not if you don't use it.

[Kyuudaime]

Uh, I thought it was stated that if you use Mangekyo then your eyesight will lower not if you don't use it.

Uhhh....I thought it was stated that even if you don't use it, your eyesight will disappear, it's just that using it will speed up the process.
Edit: Right here
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/385/15/
Itachi states
"From the day you awaken it, your eyes begin a slow decent into darkness"
"The more you use them, the quicker the process moves"

Edited by Kyuudaime, 13 August 2008 - 10:47 PM.

[Nasir]

I guess you were right, wikipedia says the same thing, as for why he didn't use it, what can i say...Kakashi is a very moody person...

[Kyuudaime]

That's the only major flaw with your theory, Kakashi would be near blind if he had it since Obito's death.

[Ulgamoth]

Ok....
This is far-fetched, but I think he obtained it by mentally accusing his self and thinking it was his fault his best friend died, it could have had such a strong reaction that he truely did think that and his sharingan reacted to it, and he obtained mangekyou.

Kinda hard to explain, but that's my main theory.

i agree, and i also agree with Nisar, probobly the trauma of the death of his closest(and only at the time) friend. he prpbably had to train it for a long time , mabey even b4 the time skip, we just didnt see it? and he had 2 discover it on his own, so god knows how long that took him! and the exaustion is a factor, he probobly didnt use it in the chunin exams because he still had 2 train Sasuke, and we know u cant do that in a hospital bed?

That's the only major flaw with your theory, Kakashi would be near blind if he had it since Obito's death.

well, hed only be blind in the eye Obito gave him, not his other.

on another note, this is a thread 4 every 1, not just 2 ppl argue about their ideas.

Edited by Raella, 14 August 2008 - 01:20 AM.

[FullmetalNinja25]

I'm confused is this topic about how he got the MK or his upcoming focus? Well whatever as I've said I think the Kakashi focus will be him being named Tsunade's successor, likely after Tsunade's death which looks like it might come at the hands of Pein or Konan when they invade Konoha.

[Kyuudaime]

We weren't argueing, we were debating, and other people are welcome to step in
Also, to contradict myself, even though it was stated that just by having them you slowly go blind, we don't know how long it could take if the user hardly uses it, it could take 25 or 30 or mho knows how many years.

I still stand by my theory on Kakashi mentally berating his self though.

[Ulgamoth]

I'm confused is this topic about how he got the MK or his upcoming focus? Well whatever as I've said I think the Kakashi focus will be him being named Tsunade's successor, likely after Tsunade's death which looks like it might come at the hands of Pein or Konan when they invade Konoha.

this topic is about anything Kakashi in upcoming arc, right now, his MS, L8er: Gotta See! Gotta Know! Kakasi Sensei's True Face! jk

and ur ideas cool, but i didnt want tsunade dying so soon

Edited by Raella, 14 August 2008 - 03:48 AM.

[Nate River]

That's the only major flaw with your theory, Kakashi would be near blind if he had it since Obito's death.

I think there is a running assumption on both theories and that is what Kakashi did can be reconciled rather than it being just a big plot hole.

You brought up a good point earlier with Orochimaru. However, it could be argued that because of the side effect that he's very selective about it's use. I also agree with Nasir, but only on the point that the best friend rule isn't exclusive. Itach already proved that by handing it over to Sasuke and as Nasir said, there is no way the eye itself would know if were you best friend or not. What if it was a double you truly believed was your friend? Even though it was not, you'd still believe it and wouldn't know the differenece. It's unreasonable that they "eye" independent of the mind would either.

Really what confused me was not the Orochimaru fight, but the Itachi fight. Remember, what Kakashi did? He sat thinking his normal sharingan would be enough. It makes no sense to not activate Mangekyou if he doesn't already have it. He knows that Itachi outclasses him. Why just use the regular when Itachi is fighting you with Mangekyou? If the two primary goals are getting Itachi out of the village and preventing Sasuke from contacting him, why not use the same technique he used against Deidara? Why not use Mangekyou during the Hidan/Kakuzu fights either? It makes no sense.

People keep calling what he had Mangekyou, but I'm not convinced it is because why not fire back with a Tsukiyomi of your own against Itachi or Deidara? Or Amaterasu for that matter?

Second, I don't see how it could evolve in Kakashi's hands. He may have the eye, but it's tough to buy that the surgery rewrote his entire genetic code. Itachi specifically mentions that it isn't the same because he does not Uchiha blood, a statement that is almost meaningless if Kakashi's eyes can evolve. Besides, I'm not 100% what's the difference bewtween what Kakashi did to Obito and what Madara did to his brother? Why does one transfer make it eternal and not the other, what's the significance of it? Uchiha blood, doesn't make sense either because it doesn;'t explain why the weakness evaporates when they eye changes hoasts.

Moreover, I though Kakashi wore his headband the way he did because he can't deactivate the eye. It doesn't add up to say that he can have the thing evolve, but he can't even deactivate it. The inability to do so suggests that his is stagnant because of the way he got his, which would fit with the Uchiha blood bit. In other words, because he's not Uchiha he can't control it. The only possible way I see him having MS is if Obito had it, but there is zero evidence to support this (if he had it why is there no mention of this by anybody and Obito having it contridict something Itachi already said) and it still doesn't explain why he didn't use it against Itachi and Kakuzu.

IMO, Kishimoto has completely screwed up the sharingan in Part 2. It was cool in part 1, but he's done so much with it in Part 2 that flat out makes no sense.

What Kakashi did against Deidara is just on example. I don't see how this can completely be reconciled. He can close some of the holes, but in doing so he'll just contradict himself elsewhere.

[Ulgamoth]

way too much there, but i get chya! mabey he accidentaly activated it 1 time, and hidan/kakuzu? he didnt deed it did he?

[Daniee]

It's implied that Kakashi got his Mangekyou Sharingan during the timeskip. In 247, he tells Naruto & Sakura that he recently came up with an amazing jutsu. Then later when they run into Itachi, Kakashi asks him how bad his eyesight has gotten (he didn't seem to know about this side effect before).
And Nate, Kakashi was about to use it against Kakuzu. But Naruto & co. showed up and he didn't need to.

As for what I think is gonna happen with Kakashi, I think Madara is going to be involved somehow. In 395/396, Kakashi had the biggest reaction when he noticed his Sharingan. I don't know...that just felt like foreshadowing to me.

[Ulgamoth]

yeah, what Daniee said