Jump to content

Close
Photo

My Final Realization Of What bothered Me About The Naruto Manga


  • Please log in to reply
549 replies to this topic

#61 db84x

db84x

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 274 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 January 2016 - 04:40 AM

@ Rocci

Remember what happen to bleach, failed to find WSJ reader want than it will be sank by ToC system, that how WSJ system work.  Yeah actually pairing isn't Naruto matter but it really big matter to WSJ reader, since they are the most powerful editor.

 

In Japan, Immortal manga status gained if it finish in high rank unlike in western.    

 

@ TouKen4Life3g

It hard to be independent in WSJ, since all of us knew how powerful ToC system dictate mangaka creativity.  


Edited by db84x, 10 January 2016 - 04:47 AM.


#62 rocci

rocci

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,708 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 05:27 AM

@db
Bleach does fail in ToC but it doesn't get axed, why?
Because bleach do well in manga sell unlike new comer.
Actually no, pairing isn't that big to wsj. Any pairing happen will not affect naruto sell.

No, immortal status gain if you're popular enough and have the manga sales.
One of the reason why hiatusxhiatus doesn't get axed.

ToC only matter to newcomer, because it will decide the future of your manga.

#63 MagicalNgro

MagicalNgro

    Academy Student

  • Academy Student
  • Pip
  • 26 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 07:02 AM

not to mention he played favorites leaving 2 out of 3 in the dust


Wasn't he instructed by jiraiya to focus on sasuke during the chunin exams? It seems outside of that, he was more than willing to train his team

#64 rocci

rocci

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,708 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:21 AM

Wasn't he instructed by jiraiya to focus on sasuke during the chunin exams? It seems outside of that, he was more than willing to train his team

He's more ninjutsu specialize.
He teach sasuke thunder element and naruto's wind.

#65 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

Konoha'sCrimsonFox

    Solo Leveler

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,079 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my own fantasies.
  • Interests:Anime, manga, manhwa, manhua, video games, novels, web novels, 3D comics, drones and RC driving. Writing web novels.

Posted 10 January 2016 - 09:50 AM

He the hokage for a time skip. When we already have a hokage who doing the job just fine. And Naruto who should be coming close to becoming hokage by the end of the war arc...What does that even add to the story? The only reason I can think of why kishi did it? Is because the clowns that did the last didn't find it interesting to use Tsunade as hokage for the last movie, and wanted to make it more interesting by making Kakashi hokage for hinata's big event.

 

Just to input from Nate's post. The ultimate plot armor for Kakashi being Hokage is just fanservice to kakashi's fadom for TL hype. SP's false advertisement lead the Kakashi fandom astray with the free stuff and the trailer bait (that shown kakashi in his Hokage robes and hat). 


200w.gif?cid=6c09b952upk4zqyleuyocv60f0z

 

"My name is Sung Ji-woo. Some called me the Assassin of Death. A Necromancer Deity... My journey has been nothing but walking over a mountain of corpses. My legion of the dead reigns supreme. None shall block my way or... face the wrath of my blades!" --Solo Leveling.


#66 TouKen4Life3g

TouKen4Life3g

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,306 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:05 AM

I feel like it's just a worldwide decision to make Hinata get all the spotlight more so than just Japan. If it was there, it wouldn't matter that much, so he could just leave it with Sakura without the concern of pairing. I mean he changed heroine so to say, yet he really didn't do anything with her at all, it's just a title to get all the perks that heroine gets: development (hardly), screen time, and love interest.

I mean Naruto is popular and all in Japan, but it's not big without worldwide. Worldwide barely amounts the same amount of One Piece in Japan only. In fact, Gintama was right behind it last year have that series didn't come back full force in half a year later and Naruto didn't have official canon movie DVD/Blu-Ray release, anime continuing in which leads more releases for home video and CDs, and novels.

#67 Niky

Niky

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 264 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 10 January 2016 - 11:51 AM

Judging from the latest interview and news I think it happened this way (pretty much):

  • Kishi wants to leave Naruto.
  • SJ doesn’t want let him (too much money lost) but instead plans for a next series (Boruto).
  • The Kishi’s assistant (Hinata’s fanatic – Sakura’s hater) comes forward and takes over on condition that Naruto’s love, in the end, is Hinata *COUGHbeggarCOUGH*.
  • SJ keeps Kishi as counselor (with associated service charges).
  • Kishi says YES and sells Naruto.
  • We're screwed.
  • The end.

Edited by Niky, 10 January 2016 - 12:01 PM.

“A good novel tells us the truth about its hero; but a bad novel tells us the truth about its author.”

G. K. Chesterton

 

tumblr_o3tosabkSm1untbo7o4_r2_250.gif

Their first encounter...


#68 Konoha'sCrimsonFox

Konoha'sCrimsonFox

    Solo Leveler

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,079 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:In my own fantasies.
  • Interests:Anime, manga, manhwa, manhua, video games, novels, web novels, 3D comics, drones and RC driving. Writing web novels.

Posted 10 January 2016 - 12:14 PM

 

Judging from the latest interview and news I think it happened this way (pretty much):

  • Kishi wants to leave Naruto.
  • SJ doesn’t want let him (too much money lost) but instead plans for a next series (Boruto).
  • The Kishi’s assistant (Hinata’s fanatic – Sakura’s hater) comes forward and takes over on condition that Naruto’s love, in the end, is Hinata *COUGHbeggarCOUGH*.
  • SJ keeps Kishi as counselor (with associated service charges).
  • Kishi says YES and sells Naruto.
  • We're screwed.
  • The end.

 

 

We will never be screwed. We have fanfics, doujin and authors such as myself is or going to implement NS into their works in the future (maybe not much as me :hehehe: ).


200w.gif?cid=6c09b952upk4zqyleuyocv60f0z

 

"My name is Sung Ji-woo. Some called me the Assassin of Death. A Necromancer Deity... My journey has been nothing but walking over a mountain of corpses. My legion of the dead reigns supreme. None shall block my way or... face the wrath of my blades!" --Solo Leveling.


#69 HalfDemonInuyasha

HalfDemonInuyasha

    Mercenary

  • Jounin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY

Posted 10 January 2016 - 01:40 PM

Wasn't he instructed by jiraiya to focus on sasuke during the chunin exams? It seems outside of that, he was more than willing to train his team

At that time, yes (but it seems stupid that, as far as we know, Jiraiya never told Naruto that), but even before then, Kakashi was shown to keep praising Sasuke for things while looking down on Naruto. Like when Sasuke used the Lion's Barrage, having clearly based it on copying Lee's movements from their short scuffle, Kakashi praised him for that, but when Naruto used the Uzumaki Barrage similarly, but all on his own, Kakashi didn't seem to give a crap. And then you had Kakashi trying to scold Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan, seeing him "not ready" to learn such a powerful technique even though, as Jiraiya pointed out, he was more than willing to teach an assassination technique like the Chidori to Sasuke, so Kakashi clearly always had a bias towards Sasuke and against Naruto. This only looks even worse when you consider that, based on things he says later, Kakashi apparently always knew that Naruto was Minato's son and he clearly thinks the world of Minato, and yet still had that kind of bias thinking against Naruto.


2e5.gif


#70 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,551 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:34 PM

 

Judging from the latest interview and news I think it happened this way (pretty much):

  • Kishi wants to leave Naruto.
  • SJ doesn’t want let him (too much money lost) but instead plans for a next series (Boruto).
  • The Kishi’s assistant (Hinata’s fanatic – Sakura’s hater) comes forward and takes over on condition that Naruto’s love, in the end, is Hinata *COUGHbeggarCOUGH*.
  • SJ keeps Kishi as counselor (with associated service charges).
  • Kishi says YES and sells Naruto.
  • We're screwed.
  • The end.

 

What latest interview?



#71 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,551 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:42 PM

 

Just to input from Nate's post. The ultimate plot armor for Kakashi being Hokage is just fanservice to kakashi's fadom for TL hype. SP's false advertisement lead the Kakashi fandom astray with the free stuff and the trailer bait (that shown kakashi in his Hokage robes and hat). 

Pretty much, judging by the advertisements. That were baiting Sasuke Kakashi and NS, and only really starting showing hinata (despite the entire movie being about her) close to or after the manga ended. My guess is that the people behind the ads (marketing) are as big of hinata fanatic as the people that worked on the movie(animators and writers). It their job to know what sells and what makes people want to buy Naruto. My guess seeing as to how little screen time they got. That originally kakashi and sasuke weren't even suppose to be in the movie. But Marketing realized that was big mistake early on and told them to at least put them in a scene for the ads.



#72 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,551 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:45 PM

I feel like it's just a worldwide decision to make Hinata get all the spotlight more so than just Japan. If it was there, it wouldn't matter that much, so he could just leave it with Sakura without the concern of pairing. I mean he changed heroine so to say, yet he really didn't do anything with her at all, it's just a title to get all the perks that heroine gets: development (hardly), screen time, and love interest.

I mean Naruto is popular and all in Japan, but it's not big without worldwide. Worldwide barely amounts the same amount of One Piece in Japan only. In fact, Gintama was right behind it last year have that series didn't come back full force in half a year later and Naruto didn't have official canon movie DVD/Blu-Ray release, anime continuing in which leads more releases for home video and CDs, and novels.

They thought that since the US were big fans of hinata and wanted her to get what she deserved. That the rest of the West also must of wanted hinata to get what she deserved. Naruto was always SWJ big international seller for years. So they didn't mind losing Japan if they got/kept all the fans in the west...which they didn't get. Which led to the Bolt movie being very heavily SNS in hopes of pleasing the japanese fans.


Edited by Bail o' Lies, 10 January 2016 - 10:52 PM.


#73 Bail o' Lies

Bail o' Lies

    Heaven and Earth Deity

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,551 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 10:49 PM

At that time, yes (but it seems stupid that, as far as we know, Jiraiya never told Naruto that), but even before then, Kakashi was shown to keep praising Sasuke for things while looking down on Naruto. Like when Sasuke used the Lion's Barrage, having clearly based it on copying Lee's movements from their short scuffle, Kakashi praised him for that, but when Naruto used the Uzumaki Barrage similarly, but all on his own, Kakashi didn't seem to give a crap. And then you had Kakashi trying to scold Jiraiya for teaching Naruto the Rasengan, seeing him "not ready" to learn such a powerful technique even though, as Jiraiya pointed out, he was more than willing to teach an assassination technique like the Chidori to Sasuke, so Kakashi clearly always had a bias towards Sasuke and against Naruto. This only looks even worse when you consider that, based on things he says later, Kakashi apparently always knew that Naruto was Minato's son and he clearly thinks the world of Minato, and yet still had that kind of bias thinking against Naruto.

Also look back to the bell test Kakashi was unimpressed by Naruto shadow clone. Despite them being a jonin level technique that naruto learned in one night. But was visibly shocked that sasuke was able to use the fireball technique. Despite it being chunin level and it being the trademark  move of the uchiha clan.



#74 Catra

Catra

    Outlaw Gunslinging marksmen

  • Elite Teacher
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,112 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:AU narusaku, mortal kombat, balto, lion king, rudolph,

Posted 10 January 2016 - 11:34 PM

Also look back to the bell test Kakashi was unimpressed by Naruto shadow clone. Despite them being a jonin level technique that naruto learned in one night. But was visibly shocked that sasuke was able to use the fireball technique. Despite it being chunin level and it being the trademark  move of the uchiha clan.

well kakashi knew naruto had a lot of chakra/stamina thanks to kurama.

 

sasuke on the other hand he was surprised because from what i remember "took too much chakra"



#75 HalfDemonInuyasha

HalfDemonInuyasha

    Mercenary

  • Jounin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Albany, NY

Posted 11 January 2016 - 03:46 AM

Also look back to the bell test Kakashi was unimpressed by Naruto shadow clone. Despite them being a jonin level technique that naruto learned in one night. But was visibly shocked that sasuke was able to use the fireball technique. Despite it being chunin level and it being the trademark  move of the uchiha clan.

Not to mention that it was from The Forbidden Scroll; something that, obviously, not everyone, not even the Sannin, have easy access to because of the techniques being too dangerous on some level and/or simply seen as abominable.


2e5.gif


#76 Narufan85

Narufan85

    Elite Jounin

  • Elite Jounin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,412 posts

Posted 11 January 2016 - 10:18 PM

Yeah, that's something I talk to a lot with Bryon - just how overspecialized the teams of Konoha tend to be rather than well-balanced, or at least having those specialized teams become more balanced by having them learn other skills outside of their specialties. Otherwise, if any one of them ends up in a situation without someone being able to cover for their obvious weakness, they are taken out rather quickly because their specialty was all they had/relied on with nothing to fall back on (besides basics) and the team literally loses a third of their strength.

Like, for example, Tenten was lucky that Temari wasn't aiming to kill her in the Chunin Exams or else, had they been enemies seeking to kill each other on the battlefield, she would have been toast and Team Gai would have lost their only ranged specialist, leaving them wide open to be taken out from a distance by their enemies with no way of effectively fighting back and most likely leading to their deaths. This is what lead to Neji developing the Air Palm to give himself at least one slightly ranged attack and not solely relying on melee with the Jyuken, and Tenten learning how to actually wield some of her weapons for melee combat rather than simply throwing them all from a distance.

Or, supposedly most importantly, look at Naruto. As I keep saying, Naruto never truly won most of his battles due to battle skill or anything like that, but merely moments of stupidity at Kishi's convenience, Talk no Jutsu, or simply overwhelming opponents with brute strength via Kurama chakra and attrition with the opponent running low/out of chakra long before him, but as we see against Sasuke the first time in Part Two, once Kurama's chakra was taken out of the equation by Sasuke's Sharingan, Naruto has absolutely nothing else to fall back on besides things Sasuke and others had already seen (a bunch of times) before (only a bit bigger in the case of the Odama Rasengan) because he was never taught nor bothered trying to learn anything else besides what he already had, which was very, very little (even Sasuke at least learned to wield a sword, how to more effectively use his Sharingan, and created variants of the Chidori rather than relying solely on the Chidori itself). Even Sage Mode itself, alone, ends up quickly being made obsolete and requiring Naruto to mix in Kurama's chakra to boost his power, and even against Nagato, even with Sage Mode, Naruto still ended up technically losing until Hinata's stupidity made him unleash Kurama's chakra, causing Nagato to waste most of his own chakra on several failed jutsu while Naruto is able to conveniently be made full strength again because of Minato seal hax and Kage Bunshin Sage power, and Nagato's moment of stupidity at the very end to allow Naruto to hit him with the Rasengan.

And the fault largely falls on the senseis. In fact, almost all of Konoha's senseis of that generation, when it came to their own teams anyway, seemed pretty lackluster in one way or another.

Already talked about Kakashi.

 

Asuma was way too laid back, seeming content to only observe his team while simply letting them learn from their respective clans for enhancing their own kekkei genkai-based abilities rather than actually teach them much himself besides the basics (if even that).

Kurenai seemed similar with Team Eight outside of Hinata, of whom she took a much more personal interest in due to pity, and perhaps maternal instinct.

Gai was the best of the team senseis in terms of attitude at least, but let's face it, he's largely a much more physical and melee-oriented guy himself, so I doubt he could have done anything with Neji when it comes to the Jyuken and he is certainly no weapons specialist like Tenten, so all he could really do was train them more physically like he is used to doing for himself and Lee.

 

Jiraiya clearly never bothered trying to teach Naruto anything new, opting instead to focus entirely on having Naruto learning to unleash and control more of Kurama's chakra, but when that obviously failed, he still never bothered to try to teach Naruto anything else to make up for his deficiencies without it, which is extra stupid when you consider he was supposed to be preparing Naruto to take on S-Rank, Kage-class criminals who were, aside from being as powerful, if not more powerful than Jiraiya himself, were also hand-picked for their power, skills, and more effective anti-Biju/Jinchuriki abilities, while all were able to be controlled by a, at the time, single, mysterious individual who could only be assumed to be much stronger than even ones like Itachi and Kisame.

 

Even Iruka, who was usually the attempted voice of reason at times, like when he argued against Team Seven being given a C-Rank mission so soon or against having the Konoha rookies enter the Chunin Exams due to their inexperience, thus much higher risk of being hurt or even killed, and such, and you'd think would be the one to keep at least Naruto conscious of the reality of things, was willing to simply stand aside and let Naruto ditch Kurama chakra training early to go play hero in the war rather than try to get him to see that the war wasn't solely all about Naruto himself.

The only ones who seemed to take sensei duties completely seriously and got far more advanced results compared to everyone else, including Naruto, were Tsunade with Sakura (as we saw, Tsunade had no qualms about Sakura getting injured during dodge training and also helped her mature mentally and emotionally, as we saw with early Part Two before Kishi screwed it all up) and, ironically, Orochimaru with Sasuke (becoming more patient, far better control with the Curse Seal, actually using pretty effective Genjutsu rather than brute ninjutsu power, and so on) when you look at the early Part Two results.

 

Wonderful post.



#77 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,905 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 11 January 2016 - 11:14 PM

Not to mention that it was from The Forbidden Scroll; something that, obviously, not everyone, not even the Sannin, have easy access to because of the techniques being too dangerous on some level and/or simply seen as abominable.

 

Exactly, and it also had some Jutsu Tobirama must have made if the Shadow Clone Jutsu is in there, and we know with its ability to allow one to recall the clone's knowledge for missions and such, it can be risky due to the mental and physical strain from it, as shown with Naruto after he begun his nature transformation training.



#78 db84x

db84x

    Chakra Tree Climber

  • Chakra Tree Climber
  • PipPip
  • 274 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:06 AM

@ Rocci

Bleach still stand in middle rank, a manga will axed after it reach bottom rank.  But Bleach lost its anime series because only upper rank which have anime series privilage.

 

@ TouKen4Life3g

When NH moment came, Naruto ToC rank rose while NS moment came it decrease, just check it here.  

 

@ Bail o' Lies

Sorry ToC data can't lies, NS only popular in anime watcher only but unpopular in WSJ manga reader.



#79 Yyubie

Yyubie

    Missing-nin

  • Missing Nin
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,888 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:09 AM

For those who still don't know:

NH Troll

Like master Hanabi said "Don't feed the troll".


tumblr_nexjjgShiv1rz4qnxo1_500.gif
An out of control man needs a strong woman to control him.
And even a violent woman will become soft and tender to the man she love.


#80 Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

Bryon_Konoha_Ninja

    Magnificient Bastard (aka Cliffhanger Bastard!)

  • Kyuubi
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,905 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Eugene, OR, USA

Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:26 AM

For those who still don't know:

NH Troll

Like master Hanabi said "Don't feed the troll".

 

I wasn't planning to respond anyhow.

 

You know, honestly, another thing I disliked strongly with Kakashi is trying to force Sasuke to reciprocate Sakura's feelings, when he himself didn't do it with Rin, so what right does he have to have Sasuke love Sakura for no reason at all? X-P






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users