54216 replies to this topic

[TrueSacrifice]

Yeah Sasuke pretty much became the main character the moment he made that cliché late heroic entrance during the chunnin exam against Gaara

 

Wrong.

 

How many relationships and how much development does Sasuke have compared to Naruto? Just because Kishimoto made Sasuke a stereotypically cool character does not make him the main one.

Edited by TrueSacrifice, 27 May 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[MoonDrop04]

Hey quick question!!! Will the light from the infinite tsukiyomi stay active until Madara is stopped so that everyone will stay under the effects of genjutsu?? Or will the moons light stop shining since mostly everybody is captured anyway??

Because recently in another post I said how much I wanted Sakura to give Sasuke a good punch at least once in the series and I've noticed that I'm not the only one thinking that (Thank you @Luffyq1 ). And that if the light is still shining that it might be possible to happen if they stay under the protection of the Susanno!?

Like for example while they are under the Susanno and try to devise a battle plan to stop Madara, Naruto and Sasuke get into another heated argument. And as @luffyq1 said if Sasuke says something bad to naruto, Sakura wouldn't take that lightly! But first she would tell naruto to calm down and to listen to Sasuke's suggestion and not fight with him like we have seen before
(SS is gonna roll in that for a bit)...... But all of a sudden "WHAM!!" "SURPRISE MOTHER****ER!!!" Sakura punches Sasuke real good for being mean to naruto!!!

I have an overreactive imagination lol I Know!!!

Edited by MoonDrop04, 27 May 2014 - 10:58 PM.

[Silent Storm]

Final draft.

 

Spoiler

"Honestly.....
 

 

considering that NaruSaku has been given no romantic development, so you are going to try and discredit the NaruHina development in the last 240+ chapters, still on the defensive there I see, at least come up with something original and at least try to back up with credible evidence. so far NaruSaku supporters have not produced evidence that can justify their pairing. while Chapter 615 is a real stand out for NaruHina, if that was really a friendship moment then Naruto would never have held Hinata's hand, you know just saying. you can go with that friendship argument, but that will not stand for too long, it also makes your argument look weak and also makes you look desperate. as I said come up with some credible evidence, and no don't Sai, because if you do, you basically lose the argument.

I normally tend to stay out of Naruto pairing debates because they don't lead anywhere, but these posts warrants a response in how ridiculous and rude they are.

I'd say these events have more weight towards NaruSaku being the endgame pairing than NaruHina:

Sakura crying at the thought of him dying from a tailed beast extraction. (Chapter 216, Page 11)
Her reaction to him going into tailed beast mode. (Chapter 296, Page 7)
Yamato's comment about how Sakura feels about Naruto (Chapter 297, Page 11)
The hug she gave him after pain's defeat. (Chapter 450, Page 6)
Kushina's comment on finding a girl like her (Chapter 504, Page 11)....
...followed by Minato's comment when he saw Sakura's interaction with Naruto (comparing her to Kushina and asking if she is Naruto's girlfriend) (Chapter 631, Page 11).
End of chapter 662 and the majority of chapter 663 (not the CPR itself, but her thoughts about him and keeping him alive at all costs, so the actions she made during that chapter).

Meanwhile NaruHina has a confession that was skipped/hasn't been addressed.

There is more I've missed out but I want to keep that short.

If there is one thing I'd give Kishimoto, is that he's remained largely consistent with who Naruto's love interest has remained throughout the course of the story, being the heroine, Sakura. Hinata and the pairing, NaruHina has remained largely underdeveloped and one-sided throughout the story. The reason I say this is due to Hinata's irrelevance and lack of screentime till now. Even then, one moment in chapter 615 (which might I add was needed for the transfer of Kurama's chakra) doesn't negate how Naruto and Sakura's relationship has developed over the story.

The conditions that would need to be met for Naruto to choose Hinata over Sakura would be to have Sakura reject his confession (he'd have to confess to her directly, something that hasn't happened). Once that's happened, Hinata would need to have around the same amount of screentime Sakura has had and there'd have to be a display of teamwork and chemistry between the two (with Naruto acknowledging her abilities as a fighter), something that also hasn't happened. Once a rejection early or halfway into the story has happened, then Kishimoto would introduce a new girl and Naruto's relationship with her would develop from there. Time for that has passed and it's too late for it to be developed.
 

 

the last few chapters didn't disprove SasuSaku, Sasuke has to focus on an enemy that is living up to what we expected from him, there is no evidence to prove that Sakura is moving on from Sasuke, it is too sudden for her to do so, she has been in love with this one guy for so long, I doubt it is dropping, she is just uncertain at the moment, but that means very little at the moment. going by what Sai said about her fake smile doesn't really help the argument, he is basically useless when it comes to that sort of stuff, that is due to the fact that he lacks the experience to make a judgment on those sort of topics

Maybe not completely, but it sure did some damage to the pairing, followed by the next chapter. Given the context of the scene (Kakashi's inner thoughts), it would make no sense for a crush to develop into love when a) Their interactions has been minimal, b) Sasuke has made attempts at her life, c) Whenever Sasuke is involved, there has always been something negative behind it.

The point of that scene was to show how all three have changed since the early part of the story. Naruto has surpassed the hokage, Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke has changed but no matter what he does, she feels it's her duty as a friend and a teammate to save him, making her a kind girl. Sasuke....nobody knows....

...but then I remember, where Sasuke said he will be the one erase the past (Chapter 639, Page 18 - Page 19).

I can also pretty much guarantee that if Sasuke kills Naruto, nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody would forgive him for that, not even Sakura.

Moving onto the following chapter where Sakura used herself as a decoy. Naruto is also focused on the enemy, but he showed concern for the safety of his teammate while Sasuke remained focused on laying a strike on Madara, not even stopping to ask if Sakura was fine after she was stabbed. This was pointed out in her mind when she said he doesn't seem to care what happened to her.

The fake smile was a callback to a previous chapter where Naruto and Sai got into an argument about Sasuke leaving. She told him not to mind Naruto, gave him a smile and then proceeded to attack him for badmouthing Sasuke. He later follows by saying he'll remember that smile.

And you can tell by just simply observing Sakura yourself that the smile itself didn't look right. You could see her uneasiness and lack of trust.
 

 

Naruto never waivers on his desire, I don't think he ever made it his goal to pursue Sakura, his biggest goals are to become Hokage and surpass all his predecessor, be acknowledged by everyone in the village, to bring Sasuke back to the Village and to change the ninja system. not once did he say that he desired a romantic relationship with Sakura, he has already fully accepted the fact that Sakura will always love Sasuke, there is no evidence to prove that he has a crush on Sakura, and there is certainly no evidence that he is in love with Sakura. the only character to have moved on from their crush is Naruto himself.

There is evidence of Naruto liking Sakura. See: Chapter 3, Page 4, Chapter 3, Page 17, Chapter 134, Page 13 - 14, Chapter, Page, Chapter 172, Page 17, Chapter 183, Chapter 457, Page 11 - Page 12.
 

 

Sakura/NaruSaku, simply isn't a threat to NaruHina, Sakura has no romantic interest in Naruto and that isn't going to change anytime soon, while we are basically seeing Naruto slowly but surely developing romantic feelings towards Hinata, out of all the Naru pairings, NaruHina has been given 100% of that romantic development, while NaruSaku simply dropped away.

There has been no shift (minor or significant) in who Naruto's love interest is in the story. Not enough to make it believable. If there has been then Kishimoto has done a bad job in showing that.

It's been established already that Naruto won't seek out a new love interest till he's confessed to Sakura, and that won't happen till Sasuke is "saved". This was through Sai's flashback where Naruto states he can't confess to her when he can't keep his promise. It would be completely out of Naruto's character to give up on chasing Sakura till Sasuke return.

With regards to the"100% romantic development" comment, it takes two to tango. Naruto has right now shown no indication that he's seeking out a new love interest. The confession has not be addressed at all during the story. For NaruHina's validity to increase, Kishimoto would have to establish that Naruto has no romantic feelings for Sakura, something that hasn't been addressed and killed off. Assuming this is the final arc, it's too late for that to happen for it to be believable.

Naruto has already thanked Hinata for what she did for him during Pain's attack, but didn't address the confession, that should tell you enough imo.
 

 

a small example could be that of the last chapter when he heard Hinata's voice echo in his mind and he wanted to leave the Sasuno in order to get to Hinata

Panel placement is not an argument.
 

 

The only thing that has developed between Naruto and Sakura is a lasting friendship nothing more than that. you are forgetting that Sasuke doesn't have the time to let his guard down, he needs to focus on the situation at hand. and jumping the gun on whether Naruto has no romantic interest in Hinata, how sad, and yet this is the same person claiming that NaruSaku can still happen, NaruSaku is a dead ship, it has been dead since the promise of a life time. Sakura has 0 romantic interest in Naruto, and Naruto's questionable crush on Sakura, where has that gone? it has disappeared, Naruto's crush on Sakura was never all that important to Naruto

Naruto's interest in Sakura was re-established in 457.

The situation at hand also keeping a eye on your teammates to maximise your chances of winning. Sasuke doing that with Naruto but disregarding Sakura, something that was pointed out by her (when it comes to disregarding her safety).
 

 

NaruHina is in a much better position to go canon than NaruSaku does. why is that the case, simple the positive development that NaruHina has had easily surpasses that of the so called romantic development NaruSaku was supposed to have gotten.

Screentime and hints in comparison disagrees with you. Hinata has remained largely absent in the storyline till now and she's being taken out of the battle again.

===============================================
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For a while now I've been a Naruto fan, briefly stopping due to the direction the story went, and restarting cause it's now nearing this end. Here is my take on the whole pairing thing.

In part 1, Kishimoto established early on who Naruto's love interest (Chapter 3, Page 3) was. Granted Part 1 was mostly one-sided, Kishimoto has since remained consistent on who he is attracted to the most, never providing much (or any indication) that he would get over his feelings for Sakura and try pursuing another girl. Really Part 1 was the best time (or atleast lay the foundation) for this to take place, but it didn't.

Of coursethe following was very possible early on into the Shippuden portion of the story:

Naruto would confess he has feelings for Sakura and she would reject him.
Sakura would show any indication of possibly moving on from Sasuke and showing affection towards Naruto providing....
....Sasuke would warm up to the idea of Sakura being more than just a teammate. This was sort of hinted in Chapter, Page, however that didn't lead anywhere as Sasuke left the village.
Hinata was a more prominant character in the story and her interactions with Naruto were more than they were.
Following on from that, that would include them going on missions together and Naruto appearing impressed with Hinata's abilities as a fighter. Would also include more one to one scenes.

None of that happened. Sasuke left the village, disregarded Sakura's confession. Naruto and Hinata did not spend time together, not enough for the pairing to have solid foundation.

What did happen: Naruto still likes Sakura, Sakura was slowly starting to like Naruto more, with hints here and there that it could develop into something more (Chapter 13, Page 19).

Part 2 rolls in and there is the reunion. Sakura askes Naruto if she looks different while blushing, he says she looks the same and she gets upset. As the reunion continues, she feels happy to see how much he's changed till he talks about his new perverted jutsu, and she reacts angrily to it.

Throughout the course of the manga, Sakura's worry for Naruto's wellbeing has steadily increased to the point where she would cry (Chapter 216, Page 11, Chapter 296, Page 7)

The problem I have with NaruHina's viability is that they both haven't shared much screentime together in comparison to him and Sakura to make it believable, and the little screentime they shared, Kishi never attempted to develop their relationship past that of comrades / friends. Every chance he had of developing it was missed, and at this point in the story, the likelyhood he would drop Sakura (especially after she kept him alive and he will find out about that) is extremely low. I'd even go as far to say it won't happen at all but stranger things have happened.

Despite confessing to him, Naruto has not acknowledged the confession, only he has acknowledged her jumping in and trying to save him (which could have backfired horribly had Minato not placed failsafes but I digress). The end of the pain arc was the perfect time for Naruto to address that confession, rather he flat out ignored her. Her, instead of Sakura embracing him when he returned to the village was also perfect time to push the focus away from Sakura and towards Hinata, but Kishi instead had Sakura embrace him (with everyone in the village, even Hinata watching).

Then there is SasuSaku. Sasuke and Sakura spent a significant amount of time together considering them were teammates. The likely scenario that could have happened was Sasuke would slowly warm to Sakura and show signs of affection (such as smiling at her from time to time and acknowledging her a bit more), however that never happened. He showed no emotion towards her when he woke up from battle with Itachi. Also, whenever she's around Sasuke, she can't be herself, whereas around, Naruto, she can.

Like NaruHina, any scenarios he could have used to develop their relationship past comrade / friendship was wasted. It even worsened when they all reunited and he tried to kill her, twice (excluding the Land of Iron arc).

There is no chemistry between any of them in those two pairings. Part 1 had Sasuke always making Sakura feel bad and disregarding her feelings. All negative. Nothing positive about it. Team work is nonexistent (which is showing right now). Both characters are completely different now and the dynamics has changed for the worse (not that it was great anyways).

Naruto and Hinata, as I mentioned earlier, has spent little time together, so little time to develop their relationship to hint and where Kishimoto could take it. You cannot seriously sit there and tell me that Naruto & Hinata's relationship has received more development than Naruto & Sakura and not source it as well. Hinata has remained missing for the majority of part 2, big moments being during the Pain arc (confession followed by a hug from Sakura witnessed by the entire village, even Hinata having a smile on her face), 615 (followed shortly after in Manga time by Minato's comment about Sakura and his question to her). And quantity is just as important as quality, as the amount of positive moments is needed to make the ship believable.

What I like most about Naruto & Sakura's relationship is their teamwork and how they both compliment each other. This was shown during the second bell test (Chapter 246) and sort of referenced during the exams (Chapter 64, Page 11) where Iruka explained the concept of Heaven and Earth, with Naruto representing Earth, so he lacks the intellect when it comes to battle strategy and planning, but has power and Sakura representing Heaven, so she has the brains, but lacks the stamina and power (both flaws which to some extent, has been patched but remained unpatched during the majority of the story). Taking that into consideration, they both compliment each other perfectly and Sakura as it stands remains the only person out of his female friends that keeps him check. The dynamic and the way their relationship has progress mirrors that of Minato and Kushina, with Kushina not thinking much of Minato initially.

Of course there are only small similarities in both pairings, one of Kishimoto's messages is that the newer generation will surpass the previous. Taking this into account and what I've observed, I believe Naruto will succeed in becoming the hokage, will get the girl he's liked since the beginning of the story, surpassing Obito and Jiraiya, two people that never got the girls they liked (Rin and Tsunade). Sasuke has shown no interest in Sakura on a romantic level (still hasn't apologised to her for the attempts made on her life, but did for Karin) and Naruto and Hinata's relationship, granted is more positive, still is largely one-sided and underdeveloped.

Then we move onto the comparison with Kushina, where her mannerisms and reactions to Naruto behaviour has mirrored that of Sakura in the past and their insecurities with aspects of their appearance (both aspects which were complimented by Naruto and Minato). There is her wish to find a girl like her, and to to pick the weird one (what Naruto thought of Hinata early into the story), and then Minato's comparison between Sakura and Kushina. I'd say that those alone puts NaruSaku in the frontrunner at this point in the story. And yes, the parallels do have weight as it's an indication with here Kishimoto is taking the story.

But I digress.

===============================================
===============================================
 

 

So no I will not call it a day on this 'Naruto has no romantic interest in Hinata,' so you can give up on that part, because there is no evidence to say that he doesn't. Meanwhile I can say that Naruto is starting to show signs of accepting getting closer to reciprocating Hianta's love for him. that comment just shows to me that you are on the defensive, you really have nothing to back NaruSaku up, you rely on the collapse of a ship in order to make your ship stronger, if Sakura falls out of love with Sasuke, it has nothing at all to do with NaruSaku, that kind of argument is weak and it makes you look desperate.

Firstly let me remind you to refrain from calling people desperate.

The main problem I am having with your posts is that you have not done enough to explain why NaruHina as a pairing is more viable than NaruSaku, you have not explained what aspect of their relationship makes it more viable than Naruto and Sakura's relationship. You have pulled statements like Naruto not liking Sakura more on a romantic level out of thin air. You have been rude, dismissive and unable to back up anything you've said with supporting chapter numbers and pages. I've been watching this thread for a while now I am tired of seeing your poor attitude and rudeness towards others when discussing Naruto shipping. I am more than happy to discuss pairings here but If you want to continue, I suggest you drop that poor attitude now and debate properly, or you'll be infracted again the next time you display that kind of behavior. Are we clear? :)

 

Would appreciate it you guys gave it a look.

Edited by Silent Storm, 27 May 2014 - 10:58 PM.

[Nostradamus]

@MoonDrop04 My guess is that the moon is only needed in order to activate the infinite tsukuyomi and once it's everyone is connected to the tree; the moon is not needed anymore. It's the only logical explanation.

Also I want Sakura to punch Sasuke.

Edited by Nostradamus, 27 May 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[redrose3443]

Before I send this out, any refinements need to be made?

 

Spoiler

 

Honestly.....

 

I normally tend to stay out of Naruto pairing debates because they don't lead anywhere, but these posts warrants a response in how ridiculous, rude and dismissive they are.

I'd say these events have more weight towards NaruSaku being the endgame pairing than NaruHina:

Sakura crying at the thought of him dying from a tailed beast extraction. (Chapter 216, Page 11)
Her reaction to him going into tailed beast mode. (Chapter 296, Page 7)
Yamato's comment about how Sakura feels about Naruto (Chapter 297, Page 11)
The hug she gave him after pain's defeat. (Chapter 450, Page 6)
Kushina's comment on finding a girl like her (Chapter 504, Page 11)....
...followed by Minato's comment when he saw Sakura's interaction with Naruto (comparing her to Kushina and asking if she is Naruto's girlfriend) (Chapter 631, Page 11).
End of chapter 662 and the majority of chapter 663 (not the CPR itself, but her thoughts about him and keeping him alive at all costs, so the actions she made during that chapter).

 

Meanwhile NaruHina has a confession that was skipped/hasn't been addressed.

 

There is more I've missed out but I want to keep that short.

If there is one thing I'd give Kishimoto, is that he's remained largely consistent with who Naruto's love interest has remained throughout the course of the story, being the heroine, Sakura. Hinata and the pairing, NaruHina has remained largely underdeveloped and one-sided throughout the story. The reason I say this is due to Hinata's irrelevance and lack of screentime till now. Even then, one moment in chapter 615 (which might I add was needed for the transfer of Kurama's chakra) doesn't negate how Naruto and Sakura's relationship has developed over the story.

The conditions that would need to be met for Naruto to choose Hinata over Sakura would be to have Sakura reject his confession (he'd have to confess to her directly, something that hasn't happened). Once that's happened, Hinata would need to have around the same amount of screentime Sakura has had and there'd have to be a display of teamwork and chemistry between the two (with Naruto acknowledging her abilities as a fighter), something that also hasn't happened. Once a rejection early or halfway into the story has happened, then Kishimoto would introduce a new girl and Naruto's relationship with her would develop from there. Time for that has passed and it's too late for it to be developed.

 

Maybe not completely, but it sure did some damage to the pairing, followed by the next chapter. Given the context of the scene (Kakashi's inner thoughts), it would make no sense for a crush to develop into love when a) Their interactions has been minimal, b) Sasuke has made attempts at her life, c) Whenever Sasuke is involved, there has always been something negative behind it.

 

The point of that scene was to show how all three have changed since the early part of the story. Naruto has surpassed the hokage, Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke has changed but no matter what he does, she feels it's her duty as a friend and a teammate to save him, making her a kind girl. Sasuke....nobody knows....

 

...but then I remember, where Sasuke said he will be the one erase the past (Chapter 639, Page 18 - Page 19).

 

I can also pretty much guarantee that is Sasuke kills Naruto, nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody would forgive him for that, not even Sakura.

Moving onto the following chapter where Sakura used herself as a decoy. Naruto is also focused on the enemy, but he showed concern for the safety of his teammate while Sasuke remained focused on laying a strike on Madara, not even stopping to ask if Sakura was fine after she was stabbed. This was pointed out in her mind when she said he doesn't seem to care what happened to her.

The fake smile was a callback to a previous chapter where Naruto and Sai got into an argument about Sasuke leaving. She told him not to mind Naruto, gave him a smile and then proceeded to attack him for badmouthing Sasuke. He later follows by saying he'll remember that smile.

And you can tell by just simply observing Sakura yourself that the smile itself didn't look right. You could see her uneasiness and lack of trust.

 

There is evidence of Naruto liking Sakura. See: Chapter 3, Page 17, Chapter 134, Page 13 - 14, Chapter, Page, Chapter 172, Page 17, Chapter 183, Chapter 457, Page 11 - Page 12.
 

 

There has been no shift in who Naruto's love interest is in the story. Not enough to make it believable. If there has been then Kishimoto has done a bad job in showing that.

It's been established already that Naruto won't seek out a new love interest till he's confessed to Sakura, and that won't happen till Sasuke is "saved". This was through Sai's flashback where Naruto states he can't confess to her when he can''t keep his promise. It would be completely out of Naruto's character to give up on chasing Sakura till Sasuke return.

With regards to the"100% romantic development" comment. It's a two way street. Naruto has right now shown no indication that he's seeking out a new love interest. The confession has not be addressed at all during the story. For NaruHina's validity to increase, Kishimoto would have to establish that Naruto has no romantic feelings for Sakura, something that hasn't been addressed and killed off. Assuming this is the final arc, it's too late for that to happen as well.

Naruto has already thanked Hinata for what she did for him during Pain's attack, but didn't address the confession, that should tell you enough imo.
 

 

Panel placement is not an argument.

 

 

Naruto's interest in Sakura was re-established in 457.

 

The situation at hand also keeping a eye on your teammates to maximise your chances of winning. Sasuke doing that with Naruto but disregarding Sakura, something that was pointed out by her (when it comes to disregarding her safety).

 

 

Screentime and hints in comparison disgrees with you. Hinata has remained largely absent in the storyline till now and she's being taken out of the battle again.

 

===============================================

===============================================

 

For a while now I've been a Naruto fan, briefly stopping due to the direction the story went, and restarting cause it's now nearing this end. Here is my take on the whole pairing thing.

 

In part 1, Kishimoto established early on who Naruto's love interest (Chapter 3, Page 3) was. Granted Part 1 was mostly one-sided, Kishimoto has since remained consistent on who he is attracted to the most, never providing much (or any indication) that he would get over his feelings for Sakura and try pursuing another girl. Really Part 1 was the best time (or atleast lay the foundation) for this to take place, but it didn't.

 

I will concede that the following was very possible early on into the Shippuden portion of the story:

 

Naruto would confess he has feelings for Sakura and she would reject him.

Sakura would show any indication of possibly moving on from Sasuke and showing affection towards Naruto providing....

....Sasuke would warm up to the idea of Sakura being more than just a teammate. This was sort of hinted in Chapter, Page, however that didn't lead anywhere as Sasuke left the village.

Hinata was a more prominant character in the story and her interactions with Naruto were more than they were.

Following on from that, that would include them going on missions together and Naruto appearing impressed with Hinata's abilities as a fighter. Would also include more one to one scenes.

 

None of that happened. Sasuke left the village, disregarded Sakura's confession. Naruto and Hinata did not spend time together, not enough for the pairing to have solid foundation.

 

What did happen: Naruto still liked Sakura, Sakura was slowly starting to like Naruto, wit hints here and there that it could develop into something more (Chapter, Page and Chapter, Page).

Part 2 rolls in and there is the reunion. Sakura askes Naruto if she looks different while blushing, he says she looks the same and she gets upset. As the reunion continues, she feels happy to see how much he's changed till he talks about his new perverted jutsu, and she reacts angrily to it.

 

Throughout the course of the manga, Sakura's worry for Naruto's wellbeing has steadily increased to the point where she would cry (Chapter , Page, Chapter, Page, Chapter, Page)

 

THe problem I have with NaruHina's viability is that they both haven't shared much screentime together in comparison to him and Sakura to make it believable, and the little screentime they shared, Kishi never attempted to develop their relationship past that of comrades / friends. Every chance he had of developing it was missed, and at this point in the story, the likelyhood he would drop Sakura (especially after she kept him alive and he will find out about that) is extremely low. I'd even go as far to say it won't happen at all but stranger things have happened.

 

Despite confessing to him, Naruto has not acknowledged the confession, only he has acknowledged her jumping in and trying to save him (which could have backfired horribly had Minato not placed failsafes but I digress). The end of the pain arc was the perfect time for Naruto to address that confession, rather he flat out ignored her. Her, instead of Sakura embracing him when he returned to the village was also perfect time to push the focus away from Sakura and towards Hinata, but Kishi instead had Sakura embrace him (with everyone in the village, even Hinata watching).

 

Then there is SasuSaku. Sasuke and Sakura spent a significant amount of time together considering them were teammates. The likely scenario that could have happened was Sasuke would slowly warm to Sakura and show signs of affection (such as smiling at her from time to time and acknowledging her a bit more), however that never happened. He showed no emotion towards her when he woke up from battle with Itachi.

 

Like NaruHina, any scenarios he could have used to develop their relationship past comrade / friendship was wasted. It even worsened when they all reunited and he tried to kill her, twice (excluding the Land of Iron arc).

 

The entire dynamics of both pairings do not match. Part 1 had Sasuke always making Sakura feel bad. All negative. Nothing positive about it. Team work is nonexistent (which is showing right now). Both characters are completely different now and the dynamics has changed for the worse (not that it was great anyways).

 

Naruto and Hinata, as I mentioned earlier, has spent little time together, so little time to develop their relationship to hint and where Kishimoto could take it. You cannot sit there and tell me with absolute certainty that Naruto & Hinata's relationship has received more development than Naruto & Sakura. Hinata has remained missing for the majority of part 2, big moments being during the Pain arc (confession followed by a hug from Sakura witnessed by the entire village, even Hinata having a smile on her face), 615 (followed by Minato's comment about Sakura and his question to her).

 

What I like most about Naruto & Sakura's relationship is their teamwork and how they both compliment each other. This was shown during the second bell test (Chapter, Page) and sort of referenced during the chunin exams where Iruka explained the concept of Heaven and Earth, with Naruto representing Earth and Sakura representing Earth. They both compliment each other perfectly and Sakura as it stands remains the only person out of his female friends that keeps him check. The dynamic and the way their relationship has progress mirrors that of Minato and Kushina, with Kushina not thinking much of Minato initially.

 

Of course there are only small similarities in both pairings, one of Kishimoto's messages is that the newer generation will surpass the previous. Taking this into account and what I've observed, I believe Naruto will succeed in becoming the hokage, will get the girl he's liked since the beginning of the story, surpassing Obito and Jiraiya, two people that never got the girls they liked (Rin and Tsunade). Sasuke has shown no interest in Sakura on a romantic level (still hasn't apologised to her for the attempts made on her life, but did for Karin) and Naruto and Hinata's relationship has nothing tangible to suggest that it'll be taken further.

 

Then we move onto the comparison with Kushina, where her mannerisms and reactions to Naruto has mirrored that of Sakura in the past. There is her wish to find a girl like her, and then Minato's comparison. I'd say that those alone puts NaruSaku in the frontrunner. Hinata is NOTHING like Kushina.

 

===============================================

===============================================

 

But I digress.

 

 

Firstly let me remind you to refrain from calling people desperate.

 

The main problem I have with posts is that you have done nothing to explain why NaruHina as a pairing is more viable than NaruSaku. You've been rude, dismissive and unable to back up anything you've said with chapter numbers and pages. I've been watching this thread for a while now I am tired of seeing your poor attitude in this debate. I am more than happy to discuss pairings but If you want to continue, I suggest you drop that attitude now and debate properly or you'll be infracted again the next time you display that kind of behavior. Are we clear?

 

 

With the last part. The reason that's there is because the post and others (What Sakura~ was talking about earlier) is found is on a forum I moderate (I'm a super moderator). Being a supermod means I can infract in any section if rules are being broken or there is rude members.

I loved everything you wrote, however you said both Naruto and Sakura were Earth, there were chapter and page numbers missing, and around somewhere when you mentioned Sakura hugging Naruto instead of responding to Hinata's confession, I think you were missing or misused a few words. Just wanted to fix a few errors.

 

P.S. I don't know why, but after your long rant, ending with Hinata being nothing like Kushine, when you said " But I digress." I laughed and still do when I think about it.

 

P.S.S. If that Naruhina fan wants to talk about holding hands, in the chunin exams, when they were making their way to the room Sakura held both Naruto's and Sauke's hand. If she didn't care for Naruto, she never would have held it.

 

P.S.S.S. What the hell does "P.S." stand for?!

Edited by redrose3443, 27 May 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[Gojira]

Post-Script.

[Silent Storm]

I loved everything you wrote, however you said both Naruto and Sakura were Earth, there were chapter and page numbers missing, and around somewhere when you mentioned Sakura hugging Naruto instead of responding to Hinata's confession, I think you were missing or misused a few words. Just wanted to fix a few errors.

 

P.S. I don't know why, but after your long rant, ending with Hinata being nothing like Kushine, when you said " But I digress." I laughed and still do when I think about it.

 

P.S.S. If that Naruhina fan wants to talk about holding hands, in the chunin exams, when they were making their way to the room Sakura held both Naruto's and Sauke's hand. If she didn't care for Naruto, she never would have held it.

 

P.S.S.S. What the hell does "P.S." stand for?!

 

Thank you.

 

Yeah, I corrected that in my final draft and did some tweaks. :)

 

I'll look over it again to see what mistakes I made.
 

P.S means post script.

[redrose3443]

@ Pepsi and Silent Storm

 

Thanks I thought that, but wasn't sure if it was right or not.

 

 Random thought, it would be awesome if someone created a pic where MInato's cloak said "#1 NS Fan" on the back instead of Yondaime.

Edited by redrose3443, 27 May 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[TouKen4Life3g]

I MUST BEAT DARK SOULS 2 BEFORE IT SPREAD ITS DARKNESS TO NARUTO!!! SS WILL BE CANON! NH WILL BE CANON! HINATA IS KAGUYA'S REINCARNATION! MADARA CANT HANDLE MINT AND BERRIES! GODZILLA FUTURE SEQUEL WILL HAVE A DROPKICK! THE WORLD WONT MAKE SENSE ANYMORE!!!!!!!

Ok, time to beat the game.

[Sakura~]

I love you guys 

[redrose3443]

The people on this website are insane.... And I love every minute of it!

 

@ Sakura~ love you too!

 

@ luffy that picture of Sasuke getting punched in the face.   Come on Kishi, you know you want to.

[Silent Storm]

Ok who is ripping off my post?

[NaruSakuishere]

Hope you're right. But before the fight even happens it's a must that Sakura decks the kitten outta Sasuke real hard. If anyone is more deserving of punching Sasuke dead in the face it's Sakura.

 

Something like this x100

 

I agree with this totally. Sakura needs to punch Sasuke for all the kitten he done to her.

[Shadow Wolf]

Final draft.
 

Spoiler

"Honestly.....
 
 


I normally tend to stay out of Naruto pairing debates because they don't lead anywhere, but these posts warrants a response in how ridiculous and rude they are.

I'd say these events have more weight towards NaruSaku being the endgame pairing than NaruHina:

Sakura crying at the thought of him dying from a tailed beast extraction. (Chapter 216, Page 11)
Her reaction to him going into tailed beast mode. (Chapter 296, Page 7)
Yamato's comment about how Sakura feels about Naruto (Chapter 297, Page 11)
The hug she gave him after pain's defeat. (Chapter 450, Page 6)
Kushina's comment on finding a girl like her (Chapter 504, Page 11)....
...followed by Minato's comment when he saw Sakura's interaction with Naruto (comparing her to Kushina and asking if she is Naruto's girlfriend) (Chapter 631, Page 11).
End of chapter 662 and the majority of chapter 663 (not the CPR itself, but her thoughts about him and keeping him alive at all costs, so the actions she made during that chapter).

Meanwhile NaruHina has a confession that was skipped/hasn't been addressed.

There is more I've missed out but I want to keep that short.

If there is one thing I'd give Kishimoto, is that he's remained largely consistent with who Naruto's love interest has remained throughout the course of the story, being the heroine, Sakura. Hinata and the pairing, NaruHina has remained largely underdeveloped and one-sided throughout the story. The reason I say this is due to Hinata's irrelevance and lack of screentime till now. Even then, one moment in chapter 615 (which might I add was needed for the transfer of Kurama's chakra) doesn't negate how Naruto and Sakura's relationship has developed over the story.

The conditions that would need to be met for Naruto to choose Hinata over Sakura would be to have Sakura reject his confession (he'd have to confess to her directly, something that hasn't happened). Once that's happened, Hinata would need to have around the same amount of screentime Sakura has had and there'd have to be a display of teamwork and chemistry between the two (with Naruto acknowledging her abilities as a fighter), something that also hasn't happened. Once a rejection early or halfway into the story has happened, then Kishimoto would introduce a new girl and Naruto's relationship with her would develop from there. Time for that has passed and it's too late for it to be developed.
 
 


Maybe not completely, but it sure did some damage to the pairing, followed by the next chapter. Given the context of the scene (Kakashi's inner thoughts), it would make no sense for a crush to develop into love when a) Their interactions has been minimal, b) Sasuke has made attempts at her life, c) Whenever Sasuke is involved, there has always been something negative behind it.

The point of that scene was to show how all three have changed since the early part of the story. Naruto has surpassed the hokage, Sakura's feelings towards Sasuke has changed but no matter what he does, she feels it's her duty as a friend and a teammate to save him, making her a kind girl. Sasuke....nobody knows....

...but then I remember, where Sasuke said he will be the one erase the past (Chapter 639, Page 18 - Page 19).

I can also pretty much guarantee that if Sasuke kills Naruto, nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody would forgive him for that, not even Sakura.

Moving onto the following chapter where Sakura used herself as a decoy. Naruto is also focused on the enemy, but he showed concern for the safety of his teammate while Sasuke remained focused on laying a strike on Madara, not even stopping to ask if Sakura was fine after she was stabbed. This was pointed out in her mind when she said he doesn't seem to care what happened to her.

The fake smile was a callback to a previous chapter where Naruto and Sai got into an argument about Sasuke leaving. She told him not to mind Naruto, gave him a smile and then proceeded to attack him for badmouthing Sasuke. He later follows by saying he'll remember that smile.

And you can tell by just simply observing Sakura yourself that the smile itself didn't look right. You could see her uneasiness and lack of trust.
 
 


There is evidence of Naruto liking Sakura. See: Chapter 3, Page 4, Chapter 3, Page 17, Chapter 134, Page 13 - 14, Chapter, Page, Chapter 172, Page 17, Chapter 183, Chapter 457, Page 11 - Page 12.
 
 


There has been no shift (minor or significant) in who Naruto's love interest is in the story. Not enough to make it believable. If there has been then Kishimoto has done a bad job in showing that.

It's been established already that Naruto won't seek out a new love interest till he's confessed to Sakura, and that won't happen till Sasuke is "saved". This was through Sai's flashback where Naruto states he can't confess to her when he can't keep his promise. It would be completely out of Naruto's character to give up on chasing Sakura till Sasuke return.

With regards to the"100% romantic development" comment, it takes two to tango. Naruto has right now shown no indication that he's seeking out a new love interest. The confession has not be addressed at all during the story. For NaruHina's validity to increase, Kishimoto would have to establish that Naruto has no romantic feelings for Sakura, something that hasn't been addressed and killed off. Assuming this is the final arc, it's too late for that to happen for it to be believable.

Naruto has already thanked Hinata for what she did for him during Pain's attack, but didn't address the confession, that should tell you enough imo.
 
 


Panel placement is not an argument.
 
 


Naruto's interest in Sakura was re-established in 457.

The situation at hand also keeping a eye on your teammates to maximise your chances of winning. Sasuke doing that with Naruto but disregarding Sakura, something that was pointed out by her (when it comes to disregarding her safety).
 
 


Screentime and hints in comparison disagrees with you. Hinata has remained largely absent in the storyline till now and she's being taken out of the battle again.

===============================================
===============================================

For a while now I've been a Naruto fan, briefly stopping due to the direction the story went, and restarting cause it's now nearing this end. Here is my take on the whole pairing thing.

In part 1, Kishimoto established early on who Naruto's love interest (Chapter 3, Page 3) was. Granted Part 1 was mostly one-sided, Kishimoto has since remained consistent on who he is attracted to the most, never providing much (or any indication) that he would get over his feelings for Sakura and try pursuing another girl. Really Part 1 was the best time (or atleast lay the foundation) for this to take place, but it didn't.

Of coursethe following was very possible early on into the Shippuden portion of the story:

Naruto would confess he has feelings for Sakura and she would reject him.
Sakura would show any indication of possibly moving on from Sasuke and showing affection towards Naruto providing....
....Sasuke would warm up to the idea of Sakura being more than just a teammate. This was sort of hinted in Chapter, Page, however that didn't lead anywhere as Sasuke left the village.
Hinata was a more prominant character in the story and her interactions with Naruto were more than they were.
Following on from that, that would include them going on missions together and Naruto appearing impressed with Hinata's abilities as a fighter. Would also include more one to one scenes.

None of that happened. Sasuke left the village, disregarded Sakura's confession. Naruto and Hinata did not spend time together, not enough for the pairing to have solid foundation.

What did happen: Naruto still likes Sakura, Sakura was slowly starting to like Naruto more, with hints here and there that it could develop into something more (Chapter 13, Page 19).

Part 2 rolls in and there is the reunion. Sakura askes Naruto if she looks different while blushing, he says she looks the same and she gets upset. As the reunion continues, she feels happy to see how much he's changed till he talks about his new perverted jutsu, and she reacts angrily to it.

Throughout the course of the manga, Sakura's worry for Naruto's wellbeing has steadily increased to the point where she would cry (Chapter 216, Page 11, Chapter 296, Page 7)

The problem I have with NaruHina's viability is that they both haven't shared much screentime together in comparison to him and Sakura to make it believable, and the little screentime they shared, Kishi never attempted to develop their relationship past that of comrades / friends. Every chance he had of developing it was missed, and at this point in the story, the likelyhood he would drop Sakura (especially after she kept him alive and he will find out about that) is extremely low. I'd even go as far to say it won't happen at all but stranger things have happened.

Despite confessing to him, Naruto has not acknowledged the confession, only he has acknowledged her jumping in and trying to save him (which could have backfired horribly had Minato not placed failsafes but I digress). The end of the pain arc was the perfect time for Naruto to address that confession, rather he flat out ignored her. Her, instead of Sakura embracing him when he returned to the village was also perfect time to push the focus away from Sakura and towards Hinata, but Kishi instead had Sakura embrace him (with everyone in the village, even Hinata watching).

Then there is SasuSaku. Sasuke and Sakura spent a significant amount of time together considering them were teammates. The likely scenario that could have happened was Sasuke would slowly warm to Sakura and show signs of affection (such as smiling at her from time to time and acknowledging her a bit more), however that never happened. He showed no emotion towards her when he woke up from battle with Itachi. Also, whenever she's around Sasuke, she can't be herself, whereas around, Naruto, she can.

Like NaruHina, any scenarios he could have used to develop their relationship past comrade / friendship was wasted. It even worsened when they all reunited and he tried to kill her, twice (excluding the Land of Iron arc).

There is no chemistry between any of them in those two pairings. Part 1 had Sasuke always making Sakura feel bad and disregarding her feelings. All negative. Nothing positive about it. Team work is nonexistent (which is showing right now). Both characters are completely different now and the dynamics has changed for the worse (not that it was great anyways).

Naruto and Hinata, as I mentioned earlier, has spent little time together, so little time to develop their relationship to hint and where Kishimoto could take it. You cannot seriously sit there and tell me that Naruto & Hinata's relationship has received more development than Naruto & Sakura and not source it as well. Hinata has remained missing for the majority of part 2, big moments being during the Pain arc (confession followed by a hug from Sakura witnessed by the entire village, even Hinata having a smile on her face), 615 (followed shortly after in Manga time by Minato's comment about Sakura and his question to her). And quantity is just as important as quality, as the amount of positive moments is needed to make the ship believable.

What I like most about Naruto & Sakura's relationship is their teamwork and how they both compliment each other. This was shown during the second bell test (Chapter 246) and sort of referenced during the exams (Chapter 64, Page 11) where Iruka explained the concept of Heaven and Earth, with Naruto representing Earth, so he lacks the intellect when it comes to battle strategy and planning, but has power and Sakura representing Heaven, so she has the brains, but lacks the stamina and power (both flaws which to some extent, has been patched but remained unpatched during the majority of the story). Taking that into consideration, they both compliment each other perfectly and Sakura as it stands remains the only person out of his female friends that keeps him check. The dynamic and the way their relationship has progress mirrors that of Minato and Kushina, with Kushina not thinking much of Minato initially.

Of course there are only small similarities in both pairings, one of Kishimoto's messages is that the newer generation will surpass the previous. Taking this into account and what I've observed, I believe Naruto will succeed in becoming the hokage, will get the girl he's liked since the beginning of the story, surpassing Obito and Jiraiya, two people that never got the girls they liked (Rin and Tsunade). Sasuke has shown no interest in Sakura on a romantic level (still hasn't apologised to her for the attempts made on her life, but did for Karin) and Naruto and Hinata's relationship, granted is more positive, still is largely one-sided and underdeveloped.

Then we move onto the comparison with Kushina, where her mannerisms and reactions to Naruto behaviour has mirrored that of Sakura in the past and their insecurities with aspects of their appearance (both aspects which were complimented by Naruto and Minato). There is her wish to find a girl like her, and to to pick the weird one (what Naruto thought of Hinata early into the story), and then Minato's comparison between Sakura and Kushina. I'd say that those alone puts NaruSaku in the frontrunner at this point in the story. And yes, the parallels do have weight as it's an indication with here Kishimoto is taking the story.

But I digress.

===============================================
===============================================
 
 


Firstly let me remind you to refrain from calling people desperate.

The main problem I am having with your posts is that you have not done enough to explain why NaruHina as a pairing is more viable than NaruSaku, you have not explained what aspect of their relationship makes it more viable than Naruto and Sakura's relationship. You have pulled statements like Naruto not liking Sakura more on a romantic level out of thin air. You have been rude, dismissive and unable to back up anything you've said with supporting chapter numbers and pages. I've been watching this thread for a while now I am tired of seeing your poor attitude and rudeness towards others when discussing Naruto shipping. I am more than happy to discuss pairings here but If you want to continue, I suggest you drop that poor attitude now and debate properly, or you'll be infracted again the next time you display that kind of behavior. Are we clear? :)

 
Would appreciate it you guys gave it a look.

The argument looks pretty polished and well described. I believe there is a part where you accidentally skipped the manga numbers which is where you talk about Sasuke showing signs of warming up to Sakura. I believe he says something among the lines when he asks Naruto to protect her during the Chuunin Exams/Gaara arc if you need a bit of help finding that. But overall it is a well constructed argument. And you didn't even bring Sai so I see what you did there XD

If anything, keep in mind two things:

1-Even though you will be performing your duties as moderator (from what I can see in the last paragraph), do know that this person might not take that lightly. Along with it, his NH colleagues may even try to see if you are abusing your powers.

2-Also remember that you are dealing with a passionate fan (putting it in a good way), so there's a good chance that he will not reason about this.

With those two tips in mind, all I have to say is: go for it!

Edited by Shadow Wolf, 28 May 2014 - 12:13 AM.

[Silent Storm]

Thank you.

 

Yeah, it was chapter 133, page 11-12. Added that in.

 

All I told them was to keep things civil and not resort to calling others desperate. I've dealt with a lot of people that have claimed I've abused my power so I think I'll be fine there.

 

Though I probably won't post much as it's going in circles.

[redrose3443]

Anyone think a new fruit will be created and someone will get their hands on it?

[Gravenimage]

It will be a good twist if Sasuke eats the fruit making him the final villain of the story.

[redrose3443]

True, but if that happened then Naruto and possibly Sakura would need a power up pronto, just to even it out. I think other than the fruit Naruto, Sasuke, and Madara won't get anymore power ups.( Like they freaking need one. )

[TouKen4Life3g]

Done!!! Getting cursed by that final boss is like getting SS/NH arguments in my face. Anyway, time is closing in. We'll see what happens.

[luffyq1]

It will be a good twist if Sasuke eats the fruit making him the final villain of the story.

Better plot twist would be Sakura being FV due to her insecurity of catching up with the boys which makes her eat the fruit.